Attraction isn't relevant for friendships

[Woohoo]

You're not meant to "prepare". This is where PUA always failed - routines and the like. And yes she's being vague - this is flirting between 2 single people, there's a grey area as always. You're bored? Tough . This is flirting - get used to it. Up the ante if you wanna turn up the heat.

 

And if your bored by a woman throwing you a life line you are in serious trouble. Sounds like you have had so many bad experiences that you already feel like this one has failed because you have been in similar situations and failed. Bored cause it feels like it is not even worth trying? Perhaps bored is the wrong word?

 

Make different choices. Even if their wrong you will start to get a full picture.

 

And I agree with TheWholigan. Flirting is a progression and subtle. She wants you to turn up the heat. Go for the tension!

[xxoo]

If you want fun and excitement, be fun and exciting. Dial it up. Never back off first. The is the pursuit.

 

If she actually shuts you down, stop pursuing. But unless and until she does, keep slowly turning up the heat.

[somedude81]

And if your bored by a woman throwing you a life line you are in serious trouble. Sounds like you have had so many bad experiences that you already feel like this one has failed because you have been in similar situations and failed. Bored cause it feels like it is not even worth trying? Perhaps bored is the wrong word?

 

Make different choices. Even if their wrong you will start to get a full picture.

 

And I agree with TheWholigan. Flirting is a progression and subtle. She wants you to turn up the heat. Go for the tension!

It's actually several of those.

 

For one, I have had nothing but bad experiences with women. And yes it does feel like I already failed with her. My gut is telling me that she's just being nice. By now most girls would have given me a solid no and I would move on. That is what I want but I'm not going to screw myself over to make her say no, I always have that little bit of hope

 

I used "bored" because it's not exciting. I'm not excited about her and it seems pointless. I already played my hand expecting a yes or no, and I don't even know what she gave me.

 

And now I'm trying to do this flirting over messages thing and it's just not something I'm any good at.

[xxoo]

How do any of us get good at anything? Practice, practice, practice!

[somedude81]

There's another girl I'm interested (probably more so than this one) in that I haven't talked as much about.

 

We had a study session for Finance a week ago and were in the library for a couple of hours.

 

Today was the final and I waited outside the classroom for her for about 20 minutes or so. I had just missed my bus home by 2 minutes and they came by ever half hour. Just as luck would have it, right when I was going to leave to the bus stop she came out. I had only 5 minutes till the bus came.

 

We talked about the test for a little bit and then before I had to run off, I asked her what she was doing next week and that we should get together, that I wanted to see her again. She said that she is going to be working. I was out of time so I told her that I'd call her later. She was fine with that and said bye.

 

About 30 minutes ago I called and left a message asking her how she did. She just now called me back and we spoke more about the test and she's happy she got a B and so on. We talked for a few minutes then she told me that she's with her sisters and has to go and she told me that we will talk later.

 

I'm going to call her tomorrow or Sunday and set up a date with her.

[somedude81]

an overweight sweet girl?

She's actually a very sweet and health conscious girl. She's into fitness and eating healthy and would never let herself become overweight.

 

The other girl is a ballerina. Very far from being overweight but nowhere close to being stick thin.

 

Both girls have nice fit bodies.

[Woohoo]

Sweet. You deserve mad congratulations for crossing that line. It is scary. You now have an additional weapon in your arsenal. OPTIONS!! To top it off I'm gonna give you some you didn't know you had. And if you go through with some of this then I'll share a huge conversational secret that will help you out.

 

Time to get out the "black hat" of gamey head games. Which girl are you more attracted too? We will call her #1 option, other girl is #2.

 

"Inform both girls clearly you find them attractive and would like to get to know them better, lately women have been mainly "just friends" cause you have been working on your stuff out and avoiding dating. Your glad you met them, it has put a bit of spark in your life, feeling the "wanderlust." Time to get back out their, it is time to be the man. Gonna go do X, I need a partner in crime, u down?"

 

Schedule the both girls on the same day! Then #1 girl you will contact and inform her that you haven't been dating lately so your not very organized yet and carelessly double-booked her for that day. You have two options.

 

1. Offer to reschedule : This should be an obvious one. Just propose another activity with date and time and BAM! Not only will you have a date, she will know she has competition.

 

2. Take them both out at the same time: This is advanced, but if you wanna feel crazy go for it, frankly, a date with two women at the same time was a major turning point in coming out of depression for me. (really it is easier than dating one woman if you feel like chancing it : I WILL CLEARLY admit the first time I pulled this off and walked into an upscale venue with the hottest and second hottest girl in the room on each arm my self-confidence came back quickly, as did my player card, I scored several phone numbers that night, don't let women ever tell you they aren't competitive!)

 

Say : "Look, I dumba$$ed out. I find both you and her attractive and want to do this with both of you, but this is the only day. "I know I just met you, and this is crazy! Here's my party! Call me baby! " (A joke this retarded will be funny in this situation, (it is a song if you didn't know)) Have you ever done a double-date with just one guy?

 

(Note : If she tries and bring another guy along say you will think about it, then reject her a bit later just say you knew it was weird but you wanted her to be a part of it)

 

We all want to have some input on your date as I'm going to give up some good advice that will help you conversationally and action wise. One or two things I bet you have never heard before! (You will probably want them BEFORE you call her)

 

How crazy you feeling! In fact, just TRYING the two girl approach would be such a mad experience it might even give yourself some drive and kick that depressions petunia. *warning : Every major advancement out of depression I had always had a temporary feeling that somehow I didn't DESERVE to do be out of depression. Go big, but know the price!"

Edited May 18, 2013 by Woohoo

[somedude81]

Dude, you're calling moves way above what I can do.

 

Right now both girls seem to be "kinda maybe?" into me.

 

I don't really know what else I can say.

 

I'm a complete absolute beginner in this dating game.

[Woohoo]

Lol. No problem.

 

Go back to my earlier posts. I explain honesty and how you need to work with your emotions, and thus others. All actions are feelings & emotions. You can't think your way out of/into a situation, you must feel your way into one.

 

Simply put. Make the moves.

 

Remember, attraction is directly related to excitement and a man who actively makes the moves takes pressure off the woman and thus becomes more attractive and get's along further. Women often complain about men NOT making the moves...if you don't someone else will.

 

So remember, when you start talking to someone you should always IMPOSE ON YOURSELF a limit to how long you will talk to them before asking them out. You keep sending messages back and forth will only work as long as you can A) keep upping the ante or B) till she is bored with you. If you are not a point in her life she gets excited about you bring nothing but you penis.

 

And their is one thing you are VERY wrong about.

 

You said you know what NOT to say? Hate to break it to you but you got that one wrong. Their are no WRONG things to say, only the wrong person to say them too. You must understand HER and what she finds attractive, case in point...

 

Super sexy 22 year old hot to trot attention loving incredible bodied woman I would happily invite to a strip club. After all, she might have even harbored some fantasy about being a stripper at some point. On the other hand a less attention seeking woman I'd hit up an art show with. Etc. etc. A more southern/alt girl the women's roller derby. This is why post on listening skills is so important, you can deduct and drop hints with women.

 

Everything is a matter of THIS woman, NOT a solid rule. It is my ability to see through and play with the individual that sets me apart. I'm just a party boy and I probably know my one night stands better than their relationships of several years.

 

So what DO YOU DO to excite the other person. Start with being honest about what you feel. That is the beginning.

 

Finally, every sentence, every word, look them over, reread them. TRY and find how many different ways you can take a statement. Seriously. Then you can get it wrong, and probably do. Being wrong about it all is not bad, it is FREEDOM! Wait you meant X? Whoa, totally misunderstood. Listening skills is the process of NOT knowing what the other person is saying, and letting them get it ALL out. You do NOT have to have an opinion on the topic or express anything, but really listen.

[Woohoo]

Gonna try and cobble together a simple communication guide for you in the next couple of days. Some of the do's and dont's that everyone should know with some strong guidelines. Heavier hitting stuff here.

 

*sigh* This better help cause this is some of my best info.

[somedude81]

Gonna try and cobble together a simple communication guide for you in the next couple of days. Some of the do's and dont's that everyone should know with some strong guidelines. Heavier hitting stuff here.

 

*sigh* This better help cause this is some of my best info.

That would be cool. But don't write it just for me. There are many guys on this site who suck with women. I think it would be best if you made a new thread.

 

As for me, I'm still messaging this girl talking about various things. After she replies to the message I just sent I'm going to invite her to go to something with me.

 

One thing I'm wondering about is if I should call it a date, tell her that it's not a date, or just don't use the word at all.

[Woohoo]

I'd rather it be reposted/parsed by someone else. Prefer to talk directly to someone rather than a general guide.

 

As for the "date" thing. If you ask properly it won't come up.

 

"Ya know, I've been feeling like going to X event. Gonna have X and X, a lot of fun stuff. I'm pumped! It could be more fun if you came. How about it? I'll even buy you a pony ;)"

 

"Cool, pick you up at X time. It is an X style event (formal, party, get together etc.) so dress comfortable, it might go late."

[Woohoo]

Simple small talk guide.

 

1. Their are a few wrong things to say actually. Here is some areas to GENERALLY avoid. (Their are exceptions) Politics & Religion. Unless you met her at a political rally/church service, even then it should be limited. Depression causes one to naturally seek out "heavy topics," thus small talk tends to die, we forget the child like nature of communication. It creates a resistance to stupid (fun) topics, thus making it hard to cross the early threshold of attraction. I haven't owned a TV in 7 years but I do a little bit of web following of popular shows to keep up on the topics.

 

In a sense depression reduces you to around 5 emotions. Anger, victim(helplessness, this encompasses a great deal of emotions), Self-righteousness (very dangerous) and a flat affect, shame. The real challenge is making yourself emotionally vulnerable enough to communicate honestly. A depressed person can make a great friend, but a lousy lover. You can't have a real connection with a person without a certain level of expressiveness. I may play, I may be bad, I may only be for tonight, I will be honest and I will express my feelings.

 

Also, AVOID career, education and goals. You can touch on these for a limited amount but generally they are a bad idea to dwell on. Live in the moment. What is left to talk about, skip ahead to point 7.

 

 

2. SMILE AT THE PERSON. Let them take your breath away. You will get a great smile back. Look them directly in the eye without shame. If they don't respond nod your head and say "it is so good to see you." Use these deep looks occasionally, pace yourself. Don't apologize. If a person feels permitted to look deeply at you, they will. It is one reason being a stage for performance is SO powerful. The person can watch you and not feel shame or embarrassment.

 

3. Answer SLOWLY. Think about your answers. Combine this with heavy listening. Remember, you DO NOT know what they are saying, no matter how much you want to respond quickly don't. Don't display how much you know about a topic. Mull over your answer. As long as you are REALLY thinking and not doing it to keep the other person hung up waiting you will BE thoughtful. Work on thinking about what the other person said and pick it apart 15 ways, any statement should leave MULTIPLE openings.

 

Ask them if they meant it a certain way. Ask for clarification. This is golden.

 

Try and make mental notes that you can fall back on.

 

4. DO NOT display in depth knowledge of everything, or much. As a HEAVILY read person, and heavily educated most women think I'm a bit dumb. Women DO NOT want to admit they are attracted to men that are not "intelligent," well guess what? Massive nerding of knowledge does NOT equate a display of intelligence. If you want to go in depth on a topic or two, do so in a way that YOU get excited about it. She will to. It is the emotion of loving something women will appreciate far more than the actual knowledge. I seem dumb, and slow in behavior, yet I DON'T seem dumb. It is a weird contradiction, people love trying to figure those out. "He is not as dumb as he seems/looks" I've heard more than a few times!"

 

5. SHUT UP! It is dirty pool but a couple of times when she is done talking and waiting on a response say NOTHING and nod. She will keep going. If it happens too often. Toss HER a lifeline with the notes you should be taking in your head. Hold back good quips/wits until you set them up properly. Most jokes are stale, but a great setup is always awesome, even with stupid jokes you all know.

 

6. Change topics regularly. DO NOT beat a topic to death. Work on moving smoothly and transitioning.

 

7. General Small Talk. This is a secret weapon. Talk to yourself. This may sound weird but let your inner monologue out for all to see. Comment on anything and EVERYTHING around. Talk about a vase over somewhere, wonder what the vase is thinking out loud. Is it a good vase. Did it beat out other vases for the job. Give inanimate objects emotions. Turn people into animals they look like. You can do this to everyone. Recognize people you don't know, s/he reminds you of someone, laugh about some personality quirk, get worked up sharing. Look for associations. Someone walks in dressed in a peculiar way, point it out. "My word, look at that! Wow!" She may chime in positively or negatively about it. Go with your instinct. If she has a negative reaction towards the person, I generally just look puzzled and go "I wanna meet them, they seem confident, come on" Walk over and ask them "why they dressed that way?" Listen, chime in with a strong compliment, "you have great confidence, I want some of that!" Monitor her, when it gets to be too much for her propose going to a more private locale. Not isolated but somewhere you can communicate between just the two of you. Talk about what you just went through and saw.

 

I have been accused of sounding like Hunter S Thompson before I knew who he was. Watch Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, that is a man who communicates purely through inner monologue. You can't just be an reproduction of him, he is certainly not totally attractive or seductive, yet he lives in the moment, and always has material about the most inane things, yet associates them with much larger concepts.

 

Ask her what she thinks about something. An outfit, a light, a mood etc. Ask if she has ever done something wild. Don't agree, don't comfort, don't pass judgment on her values, just SMILE. Be her partner in crime.

 

Remember to shift gears between this and more traditional conversation.

 

8. Show your stuff. This is different from sharing personal information or your in depth knowledge of something. Anything you do should entertain. Juggle something, play an instrument, something that shows you can focus and do something to ENTERTAIN. Fold a simple origami napkin. Not something that drops jaws or shows your a badass, just something fun. (I avoid guitar generally due to my technical proficiency, stupid fun focus)

 

9. Always have a backup event. You can remember it if you need it. When the vibe starts dying, bounce! 2 events are the most that most women can handle. Unless they are younger/need a lot of attention/stimulation, then go for 3.

 

10. Do something you haven't done before with them. If you can have them teach you EVEN BETTER! Dancing was always great for this. Don't deprecate and say you suck at it etc. Just have fun with it quietly and laugh at how bad you are, laugh how you can't get it, but DO NOT say you are no good at it etc. I've done this so long that I'm now in need of a new approach in this area as I pick up dance moves too quickly sometimes and I greatly like dancers and especially toned ballerinas.

 

11. Never try and figure out what the other person is thinking. Only feeling. Remember when you were in a similar situation and the feelings that went along with it.

 

12. SMILE and be okay with silence with the person as long as you are getting a good vibe. It is okay to look longingly into their eyes when they reciprocate.

When she wants to be kissed, GO FOR IT! She doesn't don't apologize, just grin and look away. In fact save apologies for when you really screw up. They mean nothing if you apologize all the time.

 

 

Hopefully this will get you squared away. This seems like a lot, but it just takes a little practice and BAM! it will all be natural. Hopefully you are communicating with the "out of your league" woman. She isn't. If you CAN'T do most of this then your depression is too heavy. That needs to become your focus. If you CAN, then you are on your way out. Hopefully this helps. I'm sure there is a bunch more BUT this is enough to put you over 90% of men in the personality/communication department. Always be sincere, no sarcasm and if the date isn't so much fun that you would have rather not done it, DON'T, get your depression in order. Good luck and let us know the outcome.

[Teknoe]

Woohoo,

You are the freaking man. Your knowledge is legit and I hope everyone reading it is getting something of value out of it. I want to hit upon #7 and share a real experience I had with #7 just hours ago.

 

See below your quote for more on that.

 

 

7. General Small Talk. This is a secret weapon. Talk to yourself. This may sound weird but let your inner monologue out for all to see. Comment on anything and EVERYTHING around. Talk about a vase over somewhere, wonder what the vase is thinking out loud. Is it a good vase. Did it beat out other vases for the job. Give inanimate objects emotions. Turn people into animals they look like. You can do this to everyone. Recognize people you don't know, s/he reminds you of someone, laugh about some personality quirk, get worked up sharing. Look for associations. Someone walks in dressed in a peculiar way, point it out. "My word, look at that! Wow!" She may chime in positively or negatively about it. Go with your instinct. If she has a negative reaction towards the person, I generally just look puzzled and go "I wanna meet them, they seem confident, come on" Walk over and ask them "why they dressed that way?" Listen, chime in with a strong compliment, "you have great confidence, I want some of that!" Monitor her, when it gets to be too much for her propose going to a more private locale. Not isolated but somewhere you can communicate between just the two of you. Talk about what you just went through and saw.

 

I have been accused of sounding like Hunter S Thompson before I knew who he was. Watch Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, that is a man who communicates purely through inner monologue. You can't just be an reproduction of him, he is certainly not totally attractive or seductive, yet he lives in the moment, and always has material about the most inane things, yet associates them with much larger concepts.

 

Ask her what she thinks about something. An outfit, a light, a mood etc. Ask if she has ever done something wild. Don't agree, don't comfort, don't pass judgment on her values, just SMILE. Be her partner in crime.

 

Remember to shift gears between this and more traditional conversation.

 

 

OK, so today I went to support a girl friend at a morning event she was doing. Yes, I think she's cool, attractive and totally awesome. Unfortunately, she is in a... from the sounds of it, a not wholly satisfying relationship. Therefore, I do measure my steps so to speak and do hold back as opposed to if she were single. I want to respect her relationship with her current BF, not being a homewrecker but still living out the moment with her and letting the chips fall where they may... knowing full well in the back of my mind, and more importantly, the back of my HEART, that "good friends with a tight emotional connection" may be "as far" as it goes with this lady. And you know what, I'd be content with that because a good friend, a GENUINELY good friend you can just chew the fat with, is priceless.

 

Just setting up some background info. OK now for #7. After her event we went out to lunch 1 on 1, and ended up talking for close to 2 hours. While we were in line I saw a lady wearing what I thought to be funny shoes.

 

I tapped my friend on the shoulder. Created some innocent physical contact. Not my goal but it worked in the context of the situation.

 

She leaned in as I whispered, "That woman has bowling shoes."

 

She peeks down.

 

"No, those are not bowling shoes!" She said it with a smile and a bit louder than she had to. The lady in said shoes glanced back at us.

 

After that we got our food and walked back to our table. Sheepishly I said to her "Oh man did you see her looking back at us?! I hope I didn't say it too loudly"

 

Then she laughed, "Naw, I think my response was probably too loud!"

 

We shared a good little chuckle over that.

 

So I definitely agree on #7... just making random general small talk/observing the environment around you can create for some laughs, light-heartedness and a chance at a shared silly laugh to keep the good flow going.

 

Let me also add 1 more thing. This is common sense I'm sure but I also feel it's helpful to explicitly spell it out.

 

NOT EVERY WOMAN IS GONNA "FEEL" YOU. Not physically, I'm talking just you overall. For example, some girls just won't respond well to who you are. It doesn't make them bad. It doesn't make YOU bad. It just means we have different preferences and different recipes for a connection. The trick is BEING who you are, and finding the right connection that will appreciate and dig you for who you are.

 

For example, one of my weaknesses is that I overshare. I am the guy that sends one too many texts/emails out. I write TOO MUCH. I share too much. Maybe I ruin the mystery, but I like to be very up front and vulnerable. Some girls just don't like that. Sure, I can tweak and hold back on texting/emailing, but at the end of the day I am who I am. This girl friend of mine, she likes that. In fact, she admits that she overshares HERSELF! So, we are like two peas in a pod, and we can be happy doing it shamelessly.

 

Just because 50 girls don't like your style, doesn't mean the 51st girl won't. Who knows, maybe girl #51 will be the one that "GETS YOU." And if you're lucky, you'll get her back, you will dig each other and boom, a relationship blossoms from there on out.

 

The trick is to stay positive, believing your match is out there somewhere. In the meantime, do what you gotta do to improve your overall life/resume, but stay true to who you are deep deep down. Who you were created to be.

 

Nothing is more liberating and awesome than finding a woman who sees your "weaknesses" as "strengths." This girl, she loves my texts and emails. I love sending them, because at my core, that's part of who I am and how I communicate.

 

It's just like the No Rain music video by Blind Melon. About the girl in the bee suit who is an outcast on society, goes around and can't find a connection. Then she stumbles upon a grassy field of like 20 other bee suit people, and they rock on happily forever and after.

 

Bee (har har) who you are. Do try to improve in certain facets of life, but be true to yourself... and learn how to be content even when single. Hopefully, you will find the right bee match for you in due time.

[Woohoo]

Woohoo,

You are the freaking man. Your knowledge is legit and I hope everyone reading it is getting something of value out of it. I want to hit upon #7 and share a real experience I had with #7 just hours ago.

 

See below your quote for more on that.

 

 

 

 

 

OK, so today I went to support a girl friend at a morning event she was doing. Yes, I think she's cool, attractive and totally awesome. Unfortunately, she is in a... from the sounds of it, a not wholly satisfying relationship. Therefore, I do measure my steps so to speak and do hold back as opposed to if she were single. I want to respect her relationship with her current BF, not being a homewrecker but still living out the moment with her and letting the chips fall where they may... knowing full well in the back of my mind, and more importantly, the back of my HEART, that "good friends with a tight emotional connection" may be "as far" as it goes with this lady. And you know what, I'd be content with that because a good friend, a GENUINELY good friend you can just chew the fat with, is priceless.

 

Just setting up some background info. OK now for #7. After her event we went out to lunch 1 on 1, and ended up talking for close to 2 hours. While we were in line I saw a lady wearing what I thought to be funny shoes.

 

I tapped my friend on the shoulder. Created some innocent physical contact. Not my goal but it worked in the context of the situation.

 

She leaned in as I whispered, "That woman has bowling shoes."

 

She peeks down.

 

"No, those are not bowling shoes!" She said it with a smile and a bit louder than she had to. The lady in said shoes glanced back at us.

 

After that we got our food and walked back to our table. Sheepishly I said to her "Oh man did you see her looking back at us?! I hope I didn't say it too loudly"

 

Then she laughed, "Naw, I think my response was probably too loud!"

 

We shared a good little chuckle over that.

 

So I definitely agree on #7... just making random general small talk/observing the environment around you can create for some laughs, light-heartedness and a chance at a shared silly laugh to keep the good flow going.

 

Let me also add 1 more thing. This is common sense I'm sure but I also feel it's helpful to explicitly spell it out.

 

NOT EVERY WOMAN IS GONNA "FEEL" YOU. Not physically, I'm talking just you overall. For example, some girls just won't respond well to who you are. It doesn't make them bad. It doesn't make YOU bad. It just means we have different preferences and different recipes for a connection. The trick is BEING who you are, and finding the right connection that will appreciate and dig you for who you are.

 

For example, one of my weaknesses is that I overshare. I am the guy that sends one too many texts/emails out. I write TOO MUCH. I share too much. Maybe I ruin the mystery, but I like to be very up front and vulnerable. Some girls just don't like that. Sure, I can tweak and hold back on texting/emailing, but at the end of the day I am who I am. This girl friend of mine, she likes that. In fact, she admits that she overshares HERSELF! So, we are like two peas in a pod, and we can be happy doing it shamelessly.

 

Just because 50 girls don't like your style, doesn't mean the 51st girl won't. Who knows, maybe girl #51 will be the one that "GETS YOU." And if you're lucky, you'll get her back, you will dig each other and boom, a relationship blossoms from there on out.

 

The trick is to stay positive, believing your match is out there somewhere. In the meantime, do what you gotta do to improve your overall life/resume, but stay true to who you are deep deep down. Who you were created to be.

 

Nothing is more liberating and awesome than finding a woman who sees your "weaknesses" as "strengths." This girl, she loves my texts and emails. I love sending them, because at my core, that's part of who I am and how I communicate.

 

It's just like the No Rain music video by Blind Melon. About the girl in the bee suit who is an outcast on society, goes around and can't find a connection. Then she stumbles upon a grassy field of like 20 other bee suit people, and they rock on happily forever and after.

 

Bee (har har) who you are. Do try to improve in certain facets of life, but be true to yourself... and learn how to be content even when single. Hopefully, you will find the right bee match for you in due time.

 

Great post. Love it. Bowling shoes! BAH!

 

It really is all about the individual. Their are women I run from cause they have a few traits that reminded me of people I had bad relationships with, regardless if those problems were my fault. When I fell apart some truly beautiful women made me angry due to their seemingly "unobtainable" nature. Now that I have my stuff together in an appealing way I've seen the exact opposite, women who turn angry cause I "think I'm out of their league" (including one I found very attractive.)

 

You can't explain why women don't like you, but you can explain why A woman doesn't like you.

[somedude81]

I'm slowly making my way down the list.

 

What's wrong with talking about the future, career, education and goals? The vast majority of girls I meet are in college. The future is an easy topic and it often leads into more about who a person is and what they like doing.

[TheGuard13]

Because A, it makes some people uncomfortable to have to get into that stuff early on, and B, it bores a lot of people.

[Woohoo]

I'm slowly making my way down the list.

 

What's wrong with talking about the future, career, education and goals? The vast majority of girls I meet are in college. The future is an easy topic and it often leads into more about who a person is and what they like doing.

 

It is an easy topic. One they discuss often. With friends. You want to have conversations just like all their friends right? You know, the ones they aren't sleeping with?

 

You can touch on this area, the thing is these are not areas that "build attraction." They are a fall back and safety net if quality conversation doesn't come forth. Though becoming rarer if I am early in a relationship with someone and we often go back to those questions I will literally (and have) cut the interaction short and just tell them straight that it is not going to work, we are just "too different." If I have too carry the entire experience of being entertaining etc. I will reject the person saying I need someone I can bounce off of.

 

One thing I call the "telephone test." It is the be all and end all. When she calls her girlfriends after the date how will she describe it?

 

Let's compare conversations, shall we? Career vs Shoes.

 

 

*ring ring* Her friend (HF) Hey, wanted to know how the date went?

 

Her (H): Well he bought me dinner at the YX restaurant. It was nice. We sat and talked. He asked me about the future, and what I'm doing in life.

 

HF : Wow. He sounds so exciting. Nice of him to play guidance counselor. Gonna see him again?

 

H : Nah, he is nice (code in this case for their was nothing SPECIFICALLY wrong, which is backhanded code for BORING) no chemistry.

 

 

Now for the "bowling shoes date" and other stuff you should always do.

 

*ring ring* Her friend (HF) Hey, wanted to know how the date went?

 

H : Great, Get this, right off he started making fun of somebodies shoes.

 

HF : Huh? What kind of loser makes fun of someone's shoes?

 

H : At school. This woman had these awful shoes, and I was like their terrible, so he walked up to her and complimented her on being confident.

 

HF : How backhanded.

 

H : No, I think he was sincere.

 

FH : Really?

 

H : I don't know? I mean, he seems nice, but I don't know.

 

FH : Ooooo, a bad boy! Is he hot?

 

H : Uhh yeah! Not like traditionally, but he has that confidence, ya know. He is just a little bad! Not too bad.

 

FH : Whoa!

 

H : Yeah, and get this, then we went to the patio out back where it was quieter to talk. He looked up at the stars, and then thanked me for being under them with him. He said it means a lot to share a great moment.

 

FH : Player alert!

 

H : Maybe, but I like him. I mean, I bet he plays, but ya know, I don't know, I like him.

 

FH : Gotta be careful! When you going out next?

 

H: Aww man, I can't wait. He mentioned X, X and X activities coming up that he was excited about.

 

FH : Got another date lined up?

 

H : Not yet. I know he said he was going to one of the events with a friend.

 

FH : Another woman?

 

FH : I didn't wanna seem posessive, I don't know.

 

H : Awww man, you need to steer clear of him. Total player, he is bad news.

 

FH : No! He is really cool!

 

Etc. etc. etc.

(What do you wanna bet she will now call 2-3 friends and explain the shoe repeatedly talking about you?

 

If you don't do anything special for her to talk about, well, she will literally just be sharing how boring you are with other women. Give them something to talk about!

 

Also, when you talk about careers, future, etc. Make it not about what your going to do, make it about the fact that it makes you happy and why.

 

I enjoy working with kids, when they smile I just light up! I enjoy finance, I love the struggle, the ruthlessness, the last man standing. Etc. Be honest!

Edited May 19, 2013 by Woohoo

[somedude81]

It is an easy topic. One they discuss often. With friends. You want to have conversations just like all their friends right? You know, the ones they aren't sleeping with?

 

You can touch on this area, the thing is these are not areas that "build attraction." They are a fall back and safety net if quality conversation doesn't come forth. Though becoming rarer if I am early in a relationship with someone and we often go back to those questions I will literally (and have) cut the interaction short and just tell them straight that it is not going to work, we are just "too different." If I have too carry the entire experience of being entertaining etc. I will reject the person saying I need someone I can bounce off of.

Ah, so it's a standard conversation that she has with friends. And since the last thing I want to do is just be friends...

 

Then I need other things to talk about.

One thing I call the "telephone test." It is the be all and end all. When she calls her girlfriends after the date how will she describe it?

 

Let's compare conversations, shall we? Career vs Shoes.

 

 

*ring ring* Her friend (HF) Hey, wanted to know how the date went?

 

Her (H): Well he bought me dinner at the YX restaurant. It was nice. We sat and talked. He asked me about the future, and what I'm doing in life.

 

HF : Wow. He sounds so exciting. Nice of him to play guidance counselor. Gonna see him again?

 

H : Nah, he is nice (code in this case for their was nothing SPECIFICALLY wrong, which is backhanded code for BORING) no chemistry.

 

 

Now for the "bowling shoes date" and other stuff you should always do.

 

*ring ring* Her friend (HF) Hey, wanted to know how the date went?

 

H : Great, Get this, right off he started making fun of somebodies shoes.

 

HF : Huh? What kind of loser makes fun of someone's shoes?

 

H : At school. This woman had these awful shoes, and I was like their terrible, so he walked up to her and complimented her on being confident.

LOL, I would never do that.

 

I can tell you're very creative.

 

Then you wrote a line about the stars. Nope. Not something I would ever say. Not in a million years would I give a line like that, unless I was reading from a script. And I'm a terrible actor.

If you don't do anything special for her to talk about, well, she will literally just be sharing how boring you are with other women. Give them something to talk about!

Then that worries me.

Also, when you talk about careers, future, etc. Make it not about what your going to do, make it about the fact that it makes you happy and why.

 

I enjoy working with kids, when they smile I just light up! I enjoy finance, I love the struggle, the ruthlessness, the last man standing. Etc. Be honest!

That's what I do already. And I also ask directed questions to get more details to go into what their passions are and so on.

[Woohoo]

Ah, so it's a standard conversation that she has with friends. And since the last thing I want to do is just be friends...

 

Then I need other things to talk about.

 

Then you wrote a line about the stars. Nope. Not something I would ever say. Not in a million years would I give a line like that, unless I was reading from a script. And I'm a terrible actor.

 

Then that worries me.

 

That's what I do already. And I also ask directed questions to get more details to go into what their passions are and so on.

 

Yes! Other things to talk about.

 

Technique #7 in action, real time, this moment, only been awake 30 minutes and groggy as hell.

 

What am I looking at? "A monitor." My lord these walls are white. I've always though it would be cool to have padded walls. My ceiling would be way cooler if it was red. No, red walls and white ceiling! Ugh, the tree outside, that branch keeps tapping my window, I'm gonna have nightmares of that tree, all "Poltergeist" style. It's gonna grab me one day when it rains, gonna be all like, Why am I wearing a night gown? Yeah, my sub-conscious, good luck with it, you are NEVER GONNA FIGURE THAT OUT!! When did I eat those skittles? My sweet sugary mistress, my one cheat with me. This girl I know may be awesome, but never as awesome as Skittles. (This is morning for me, so I haven't woken up yet, you get the idea)

 

I literally dumped that out, it covered colors, walls, housing, a movie, a scene in a movie, snack/comfort food, and probably more. Literally just grab your inner monologue and ride it!

 

Okay, gonna let you in on a little secret. Career/future conversations are the touch of death for one more reason. *sigh* This is important. Any man who talks about school and goals and what he is doing is AUTOMATICALLY assumed to be a Bullsh****r. You see, it comes across as selling something you are going to be rather than what you are. If you aren't attractive without the success, the success will not make you more attractive. I've known plenty of rich dudes who couldn't get an attractive woman if their life depended on it. Talk about the EXPERIENCE of going to school, the interactions and people, the thing is "career" and "aspirations" are just false fronts, women know intuitively that men are selling a line and if that is what your talking about, well, you must not have much going on. Live in the moment, this is not only what a great relationship IS, it is what all great connections are. Until you can do this your depression is ruling you. Hell, I'm a performing musician, I don't sell that I'm gonig to BE A RAWK STAR!! Being around me is the EXPERIENCE of being with a RAWK STAR!!!

 

And DETAILS ARE NOT IMPORTANT! They are boring.

Don't get too detailed on anything. Use the convo. above as a guideline. Anyone who has been with a great lover knows the feeling of being entirely wrapped up in the moment. Nothing else matters, just the joy.

 

When I had fallen apart and was only a few months into this putting myself back together I met this beautiful blonde/just coming out of depression. You see, when I was with her, it was always us, and where we were, and what we were doing. Careers, goals, etc. all just faded away. We were vulnerable and could share such deep feelings. THAT is what you want the other person to feel towards you. She is the one woman I seriously considered having children with. All attraction requires a vulnerability that depression prevent.

 

The "star's line". Sappy lines like that require MAD VULNERABILITY and MAD SECURITY in your masculinity. That is why so few men do them. I'm a living breathing contradiction who doesn't have to justify myself, so I allow these opposite traits to exist simultaneously. Most men are ruled by fear, especially with sappy lines and more so with women. I'm plenty macho, few men are macho enough to say things like that even occasionally. Women almost never hear really romantic things (in America in particular).

 

And you don't want women to "share" passions! You want them to "show" their passion! You must do the same. One reason I've always loved having women show me how to do a dance, how to do all kinds of things. Not about being good at it, it is about getting excited by it! If you can't get excited and caught up in doing something you going to have to focus on the depression. I haven't read what I've written in this post, so hopefully I haven't babbled.

[somedude81]

Just sent her a message.

 

After the silly random conversation part, this is what I sent her:

-------

Hey, are there any cool events happening soon, down where you are? I know about the sawdust art festival but that starts at the end of June, BTW you're going with me. Still that is quite a ways off. When are you going cross country?

-----

 

She's going to the East Coast sometime in June but I don't know when. The art festival runs about a month long. If she refuses to go with me, I'll know that I'm wasting my time with her and say goodbye.

 

Ideally I'd like to spend time with her before that but I don't know her schedule. Hopefully she'll give me some good news in her next message or I'm going to have to turn it up a little bit.

[Woohoo]

Good job. You gotta bust a move as MC Young says.

 

A couple of areas to consider.

 

Try to avoid asking what days someone is available, instead go to them with events etc. you want to go to. You see when you ask someone when they are available etc. they sometimes become defensive because they are being backed into a corner. Even if they are free they may not want to do something. Of course their is an indirect way to ask this without the fear of being cornered...

 

You did it right with the sawdust festival. To get her out another time propose another event and if she says she is busy ask what her typical schedule is so you can find something fun. Much easier than asking outright.

 

Or is this one of those long-distance things that requires mad logistics? Or is she moving away? I'm confused.

[somedude81]

Event planning and coordinating is a pain. That's something I need to work on.

 

She has agreed to go to the sawdust festival but that's basically a month away. Still it was good that she said yes. Right now we're working on what to do until then. There is a chance we might go out salsa dancing pretty soon. That or something in the day like a hike or whatever.

 

She's taking off for a two week vacation the second week of June.

 

For some reason none of it feels real. Like something stupid is going to happen. It's probably just me expecting the worst.

 

I'm going to call the other girl tomorrow and see if I can arrange something.

 

I really should probably make a new thread. If I actually go on a date with one of them, I think I'll do that.

[Teknoe]

For some reason none of it feels real. Like something stupid is going to happen. It's probably just me expecting the worst.

 

It is. Combination of it being a long month away + your past experiences/lack of success is what helps contribute to your negative thoughts.

 

I find sometimes you can plan as much as you want, but it still ends up flopping. Sometimes the best things are spur-of-the second, seat-of-your-pants activities and events... over planning, just like overanalyzing, can kill a lot of your flow and moves.

 

Try to relax as best as you can and just have fun with it. Don't take anything TOO seriously. Be light-hearted. Joke. Flirt. Show her you know how to have a good time and that you can treat a lady to a good time. In the end, girls are very emotional and they leave with that impression of how well they think of you.

 

A girl that thinks highly of you is never a bad thing.

 

Now relax! You and I share very many similar pitfalls. Overthinking, overanalyzing. Breathe, and enjoy each moment as it comes. Try to leave the expectations out of your mind. Having too many can make you very mechanical and thus, unattractive and ultimately, forgettable.

 

Leave her wanting more!

Edited May 21, 2013 by Teknoe

[somedude81]

It is. Combination of it being a long month away + your past experiences/lack of success is what helps contribute to your negative thoughts.

 

I find sometimes you can plan as much as you want, but it still ends up flopping. Sometimes the best things are spur-of-the second, seat-of-your-pants activities and events... over planning, just like overanalyzing, can kill a lot of your flow and moves.

 

Try to relax as best as you can and just have fun with it. Don't take anything TOO seriously. Be light-hearted. Joke. Flirt. Show her you know how to have a good time and that you can treat a lady to a good time. In the end, girls are very emotional and they leave with that impression of how well they think of you.

 

A girl that thinks highly of you is never a bad thing.

 

Now relax! You and I share very many similar pitfalls. Overthinking, overanalyzing. Breathe, and enjoy each moment as it comes. Try to leave the expectations out of your mind. Having too many can make you very mechanical and thus, unattractive and ultimately, forgettable.

 

Leave her wanting more!

I agree with you.

 

But there is also the fact that I'm terrified that I will end up just friends with her. To me that equals a complete and utter failure.

 

I'm trying to be funny and flirt, but I just know I'm not taking things far enough. I'm also afraid of coming across as obviously interested because that always results in them running away. In the very begging I told her that I would really like to take her on a date, so I really hope she still has that on mind as I try to make plans with her.

 

God, I don't want to be just friends.