Attraction isn't relevant for friendships

[Mme. Chaucer]

As carhill said, having a lot of friends just means I have a lot of friends.

 

Are you considering the rest of what he had to say, or just this phrase that you can use to support your claim that you don't need friends?

 

Having no friends is meaningful.

[Anela]

The douche who used to be in my life, had more success with the type of women he wanted, when he made some male friends and started to socialize with them/party, rather than just seeing them at work.

[Emilia]

BTW, you didn't address you think I posses these generalizations and what they have to do with dating.

I did in the past in your numerous other threads that were about exactly the same thing. You either don't want to understand how socialisation works or you have no hope in hell to.

[sillyanswer]

So how come whenever I make a thread about dating, people always mention friends?

 

Because interpersonal relationships between platonic friends and between dating partners have some commonality, because friends have friends of their own that they might be able to introduce you to, because friends can give you support and advice that strangers on the internet cannot.

 

Making friends with girls, is completely different from being able to date them.

 

I believe that you are wrong in this assertion.

 

It isn't completely the same, and it is different, but it shares enough common elements that I think it is wrong to say that it is completely different.

 

I say this only from my own experience, which is that of someone who has some dating and relationship success with women as well as friends of both sexes.

 

Then it makes even less sense when people bring up guy friends. It's just a random comment.

 

I disagree with your statement that it is random. Being able to make guy friends uses some interpersonal relationship skills that are useful with making any type of friend including romantic dating partners. Having guy friends provides a type of support network for advice (or just venting over a beer) about dating. Guy friends have their own friends, acquaintances and even relatives, who may be female, to whom you may be introduced.

 

The context of the post may suggest which of these separate issues makes it a relevant comment and not a random comment.

[xxoo]

What do you think about the fact that you have trouble relating to women romantically, and have trouble making friends with guys? When you are friends with women, they treat you like a "girlfriend" (like one of their girl friends). If you could make friends with guys, you'd have more exposure to their social behavior around men and women, and how they avoid the "girlfriend" pigeon.

 

Regardless, what objection do you have to trying something that would improve your life? You'd rather focus your energy on girls. Well, that hasn't been working. Improve yourself. Try something different. What harm could it do to seek out some friendships with guys? When you make excuses for not wanting to do something as simple and socially expected as having a few friends, it raises flags that you have MUCH bigger social issues than you let on here. Making friends in a university usually happens naturally, with little effort.

[somedude81]

People here who don't know me say worse about me all the time.

 

All we are here on LS is what we post. Sorry, but you come off as profoundly self-centered.

How am I more self-centered than any one else on this forum? Just about every single one of us has come here to talk about ourselves. So what is it that makes me more self-centered than the rest?

And you certainly do struggle with relating to others here, and all the things you share about your interactions IRL illustrate this as well.

 

I've asked you a question probably more than a dozen times relating to how you seem incapable, or completely unwilling, to look at issues from a perspective other than your own and you completely ignore the question or sidestep it blatantly. You NEVER show an interest in another point of view.

Please give an example because all I'm seeing is "jump on the SD bashing bandwagon."

 

What do you think about the fact that you have trouble relating to women romantically

I don't understand the question.

 

How does one relate to women romantically? Why do you believe I am not doing it?

 

Can you guys relate to me and see my frustration with these vague comments? I want to change what I'm doing but I'm not even given a place to start. What do you expect me to do when I hear that I'm self-centered and can't relate to women?

and have trouble making friends with guys? When you are friends with women, they treat you like a "girlfriend" (like one of their girl friends).

I'm not sure about that, but I know they aren't treating me like a boyfriend. I believe that when I have female friends we treat each other in a gender neutral manner.

[clia]

I'll try.

 

You are a man in your early 30s who has no close friends. The fact that you have not been able to develop and/or maintain any close friendships (despite presumably going through kindergarten, middle school, high school, and now college, easy places to make new friends) speaks volumes. Whatever the reason for your failure to develop and/or maintain close male friends is very likely somehow correlated to your failure with women. I suspect that is why people talk about friendship when you start new threads about your dating issues. That you can't understand the connection further solidifies that you simply do not understand the importance of basic social interactions beyond the superficial.

 

I know you are going to start protesting and telling me about how cool you are and how you have no problem meeting people and making friends and all that. Well, the facts speak otherwise. You would have close friends if this were true. You would have dating success if this were true. There is a disconnect somewhere that you are failing to see. And rather than kick the can down the road again in the hopes that you might make some friends someday when you start your currently non-existent job, maybe you should take some advice that has been given to you numerous times in the past and try to make things happen now. You might even try counseling, because something is not adding up.

 

That would require that I actively go out of my way seek out women I'm not attracted to and then socialize with them. When I'm attracted to the majority of women in my preferred age range and want to socialize with them, it doesn't make sense to ignore the cute girls and focus on the less attractive girls in the hope that I could be friends with them. I'm also not going to go out of my way to an area where there are only non-attractive women.

 

Is there a reason why you only see things in black and white? I don't think anyone is suggesting you go out of your way to seek out women you aren't attracted to or that you should have to ignore the cute girls. The point is that maybe instead of trying to befriend the pretty girl simply because you want to ask her out someday, you try to befriend a girl who has a great sense of humor or has had interesting adventure in her life because it's cool to be around lots of different types of people. You treat women like they are merely a means to an end for you. If you don't want to date them, then why bother, right? Women can see right through that. What about the two women in your salsa class who you claim like you? Why not go out for beer with them sometime? Maybe you might learn something.

 

Also, I'm dying to know more about this area where all the non-attractive women hang out.

[Mme. Chaucer]

You treat women like they are merely a means to an end for you. If you don't want to date them, then why bother, right? Women can see right through that.

 

 

Your entire post is right on, and particularly the above quoted.

 

What about the two women in your salsa class who you claim like you? Why not go out for beer with them sometime? Maybe you might learn something.

 

I guess that would mean they'd been "friend zoned," which, as we've all been taught, is an impossibility for women. Therefore, if he's not hoping to "get" her, he has no use.

[xxoo]

I agree with clia about how loudly it speaks that you haven't made friends throughout high school and college. It's a glaring social deficit, and it will affect all of your social skills--including romantic and professional skills. Are you familiar with the role of networking in the hiring process and workplace environment?

 

About the way you have trouble with both men as friends and women as romantic partners, have you noticed how some women can be so assertive in their social behavior that they seem masculine, even if they look feminine? The same can be true for men, in the reverse. Maybe you lack those masculine behaviors, making guys find you odd and making women find you fun but not sexy. Like a girlfriend. More time with guys would help you learn how guys act. Not just any guys, but guys who actually date women.

Edited May 8, 2013 by xxoo

[HopelessRomantic76]

I agree with clia about how loudly it speaks that you haven't made friends throughout high school and college. It's a glaring social deficit, and it will affect all of your social skills--including romantic and professional skills. Are you familiar with the role of networking in the hiring process and workplace environment?

 

About the way you have trouble with both men as friends and women as romantic partners, have you noticed how some women can be so assertive in their social behavior that they seem masculine, even if they look feminine? The same can be true for men, in the reverse. Maybe you lack those masculine behaviors, making guys find you odd and making women find you fun but not sexy. Like a girlfriend. More time with guys would help you learn how guys act. Not just any guys, but guys who actually date women.

 

I agree a man who is shy laid back and passive is not a real man hes a wimp.

 

Op needs to learn to dominate a social scene and stand out

[somedude81]

I'll try.

 

You are a man in your early 30s who has no close friends. The fact that you have not been able to develop and/or maintain any close friendships (despite presumably going through kindergarten, middle school, high school, and now college, easy places to make new friends) speaks volumes. Whatever the reason for your failure to develop and/or maintain close male friends is very likely somehow correlated to your failure with women.

Except the fact that I have had male friends for many years of my life. And when I did have male friends, I wasn't dating any women.

 

Also are you telling me that not being able to make male friends has a stronger correlation to me failing with women then me being able to make female friends?

 

I suspect that is why people talk about friendship when you start new threads about your dating issues. That you can't understand the connection further solidifies that you simply do not understand the importance of basic social interactions beyond the superficial.

If that is the case, then why can I make female friends?

 

I know you are going to start protesting and telling me about how cool you are and how you have no problem meeting people and making friends and all that. Well, the facts speak otherwise. You would have close friends if this were true. You would have dating success if this were true. There is a disconnect somewhere that you are failing to see. And rather than kick the can down the road again in the hopes that you might make some friends someday when you start your currently non-existent job, maybe you should take some advice that has been given to you numerous times in the past and try to make things happen now. You might even try counseling, because something is not adding up.

The bold is exactly why I made this thread. I don't see any correlation at all between being able to make friends with men or women and dating.

 

 

Is there a reason why you only see things in black and white? I don't think anyone is suggesting you go out of your way to seek out women you aren't attracted to or that you should have to ignore the cute girls. The point is that maybe instead of trying to befriend the pretty girl simply because you want to ask her out someday, you try to befriend a girl who has a great sense of humor or has had interesting adventure in her life because it's cool to be around lots of different types of people.

Since I am easily attracted to most women, I would have to seek out a woman that I consider "ugly" if I wanted to be friends with a woman I'm not attracted to.

 

As it is right now, I do befriend girls because they have a fun personality and common interests as me etc. And more often than not, those girls are halfway decent looking and there is a near 100% chance that I will end up being attracted to her. Just to make things clear, I do not try to make friends with girls because I think they are pretty. Personality is the number one factor for me.

 

You treat women like they are merely a means to an end for you. If you don't want to date them, then why bother, right?

I "bother" because I enjoy interacting with women regardless if I'm going to have sex with them or not.

Women can see right through that.

No, they can't. If they did, no woman would ever get "used for sex."

 

I would gladly have sex with the vast majority of girls I interact with in my daily life and none of them can tell. I don't come across as some super creep. If I did, would I be able to have female friends?

 

What about the two women in your salsa class who you claim like you? Why not go out for beer with them sometime? Maybe you might learn something.

Learn what? What could I possibly gain from spending time with them versus somebody I'm actually attracted to?

so you where making 1000 of topics about dating but still not get it//??

i hope you get it this time.

 

its like this, if you are not freinds with the person you marry with it will

be hard for both of you to communicate and trust each other.

 

cause there is not a good foundation of being able to talk about what ever you want openly, etc.

and be yourself.

cause it got stock on romanticism and nice words and sex.

 

Thats why friends is best thing to be.. and shore with some you will have friendship and attraction. but the more you keep it on getting to know each other the better you

can built to a great relationship when its so far.

LOL! I have no problems making friends with women!

 

If I so desired, I could have a bunch of platonic female friends. But I'm a straight man and I desire sex, so I'm not satisfied with platonic only relationships.

--------------------

Here's something I want to add.

 

Recently I started email communication with a girl because I wanted to ask her something but not in person. She has a boyfriend. I basically asked her about other girls in the class and told her that I liked some girl but thought she was too pretty for me and that she doesn't date guys like me.

 

This was my friends response.

 

"Why do you think she wouldn't like you just because she's too pretty for you? Don't sell yourself short, you're a wonderful, handsome man and you don't really know until you ask. But my main point is don't think you're not good enough just because you don't think you're physically attractive enough. I've always be a big believer in physical appearance doesn't mean anything unless the inside matches the outside. Everyone has their insecurities."

 

She is a great girl and I'm going to miss her when class is over. And no, I have no interest in being a closer friend and seeing her off-campus because I know I would quickly fall for her.

[ThaWholigan]

Except the fact that I have had male friends for many years of my life. And when I did have male friends, I wasn't dating any women.

 

Also are you telling me that not being able to make male friends has a stronger correlation to me failing with women then me being able to make female friends?

 

If that is the case, then why can I make female friends?

 

The bold is exactly why I made this thread. I don't see any correlation at all between being able to make friends with men or women and dating.

 

 

Since I am easily attracted to most women, I would have to seek out a woman that I consider "ugly" if I wanted to be friends with a woman I'm not attracted to.

 

As it is right now, I do befriend girls because they have a fun personality and common interests as me etc. And more often than not, those girls are halfway decent looking and there is a near 100% chance that I will end up being attracted to her. Just to make things clear, I do not try to make friends with girls because I think they are pretty. Personality is the number one factor for me.

 

I "bother" because I enjoy interacting with women regardless if I'm going to have sex with them or not.

No, they can't. If they did, no woman would ever get "used for sex."

 

I would gladly have sex with the vast majority of girls I interact with in my daily life and none of them can tell. I don't come across as some super creep. If I did, would I be able to have female friends?

 

Learn what? What could I possibly gain from spending time with them versus somebody I'm actually attracted to?

 

LOL! I have no problems making friends with women!

 

If I so desired, I could have a bunch of platonic female friends. But I'm a straight man and I desire sex, so I'm not satisfied with platonic only relationships.

--------------------

Here's something I want to add.

 

Recently I started email communication with a girl because I wanted to ask her something but not in person. She has a boyfriend. I basically asked her about other girls in the class and told her that I liked some girl but thought she was too pretty for me and that she doesn't date guys like me.

 

This was my friends response.

 

"Why do you think she wouldn't like you just because she's too pretty for you? Don't sell yourself short, you're a wonderful, handsome man and you don't really know until you ask. But my main point is don't think you're not good enough just because you don't think you're physically attractive enough. I've always be a big believer in physical appearance doesn't mean anything unless the inside matches the outside. Everyone has their insecurities."

 

She is a great girl and I'm going to miss her when class is over. And no, I have no interest in being a closer friend and seeing her off-campus because I know I would quickly fall for her.

She's right.

 

You won't know until you ask. The key is to stop investing so much emotional energy into every interaction with women. Impossible? Only if you keep telling yourself it is.

 

This girl may be just being very nice to you, but she has no incentive to encourage you in the manner. Either way, you gotta just get on with it. All that you are reading here even - it's all noise. Sure, we're trying to help you (well, I can't really be arsed that much anymore), but it means nothing if you don't get out of your head.

[xxoo]

Here's something I want to add.

 

Recently I started email communication with a girl because I wanted to ask her something but not in person. She has a boyfriend. I basically asked her about other girls in the class and told her that I liked some girl but thought she was too pretty for me and that she doesn't date guys like me.

 

This was my friends response.

 

"Why do you think she wouldn't like you just because she's too pretty for you? Don't sell yourself short, you're a wonderful, handsome man and you don't really know until you ask. But my main point is don't think you're not good enough just because you don't think you're physically attractive enough. I've always be a big believer in physical appearance doesn't mean anything unless the inside matches the outside. Everyone has their insecurities."

 

She is a great girl and I'm going to miss her when class is over. And no, I have no interest in being a closer friend and seeing her off-campus because I know I would quickly fall for her.

 

What do you think this email exchange shows?

[tman666]

I basically asked her about other girls in the class and told her that I liked some girl but thought she was too pretty for me and that she doesn't date guys like me.

 

Dude...

 

Here's one of your problems right here. The quoted statement (from you) screams of an insecure, apologist self-view. At the risk of breaking things down into overly simplistic terms, this is highly "beta" behavior on your part.

 

Change in your life is going to start when you make changes to yourself and your self-perception. You can put as much lip-stick on this pig as you want, but as long as you continue to perseverate on the external details, you'll be spinning your wheels.

 

Most of the advice given to you (make more friends, specifically) revolves around, in my opinion, getting you to view yourself and others in a different way. Until that happens, the rest just crumbles.

[xxoo]

Dude...

 

Here's one of your problems right here. The quoted statement (from you) screams of an insecure, apologist self-view. At the risk of breaking things down into overly simplistic terms, this is highly "beta" behavior on your part.

 

It's not attractive, that's for sure.

 

And her response---is something a big sister would say to a little brother. A little brother who needs a lot of hand holding.

[somedude81]

She's right.

 

You won't know until you ask.

What really tells me is how she interacts with me. I'm just not getting the right vibe from her. Saying she's too pretty is just an excuse.

 

The key is to stop investing so much emotional energy into every interaction with women. Impossible? Only if you keep telling yourself it is.

I'm not investing anything with my interactions unless I'm trying to accomplish some goal. I'm more than capable of interacting with women and just having fun. But my problem is that when I soley have those interactions, I always go home alone.

 

This girl may be just being very nice to you, but she has no incentive to encourage you in the manner. Either way, you gotta just get on with it. All that you are reading here even - it's all noise. Sure, we're trying to help you (well, I can't really be arsed that much anymore), but it means nothing if you don't get out of your head.

Yes she is being very nice to me, but it almost seems excessive.

 

What do you think this email exchange shows?

I really don't know. It's like she's being too nice and I can't figure out why. Sure I have one guess, but it's probably wrong.

 

BTW what I orginially said to her was this "X is too pretty and I really doubt she’s into guys like me." That was the first and only time I wrote or said anything to her that showed some insecurity. I would never have expected she to take her response so far.

[xxoo]

BTW what I orginially said to her was this "X is too pretty and I really doubt she’s into guys like me." That was the first and only time I wrote or said anything to her that showed some insecurity. I would never have expected she to take her response so far.

 

It's clearly not the first time she picked up on your insecurity. That's why she took it so far. She's trying to counsel you. She apparently believes you need kind words of support.

 

If she thought you were ready to go, she'd just say, "Go get her, tiger!"

 

If she liked you, she'd might even say something like, "Her? What do you see in her?"

[somedude81]

It's clearly not the first time she picked up on your insecurity. That's why she took it so far. She's trying to counsel you. She apparently believes you need kind words of support.

 

If she thought you were ready to go, she'd just say, "Go get her, tiger!"

 

If she liked you, she'd might even say something like, "Her? What do you see in her?"

It really is the first time I said anything like this to her or talked about other girls at all.

 

So if she did pick up my insecurities without me having to say anything, I'm wondering what other girls are picking up on. Then I'm probably not hiding it as well as I think I am.

 

That thought almost makes me feel a little sick.

[xxoo]

It really is the first time I said anything like this to her or talked about other girls at all.

 

So if she did pick up my insecurities without me having to say anything, I'm wondering what other girls are picking up on. Then I'm probably not hiding it as well as I think I am.

 

That thought almost makes me feel a little sick.

 

Women are very perceptive. We can tell a lot more than you think.

 

I know a guy about your age, cute face, really hot body, on the shorter side (but about my husband's height), and sooo shy with women. I'm married, and I've given him that pep talk before. He's never told me he's insecure. He just doesn't make a move like all the other guys do. He sits back and watches and waits for certain signs that never come. Everyone can see it.

[clia]

Except the fact that I have had male friends for many years of my life. And when I did have male friends, I wasn't dating any women.

 

Didn't you just post an entire thread about how you have no social circle? Didn't you just post an entire thread about how you had nothing to do for spring break and no one to hang out with so you were considering going on vacation alone?

 

How are you defining a "friend"? I'm not referring to someone you chit chat with in class every now and then or walk to your next class with from time to time or even exchange an e-mail with once a month. I'm talking about males (or even females) you talk to on a regular basis off-campus, go out for a beer with or go mountain biking with on a regular basis, meet up for the weekend in Lake Tahoe once or twice a year, send birthday cards/gifts to their children, could call them up if you needed help moving, would show up at the hospital if you got into an accident, would be there for you if you needed anything, etc. Not acquaintances -- friends.

 

Also are you telling me that not being able to make male friends has a stronger correlation to me failing with women then me being able to make female friends?

 

Yes.

 

The bold is exactly why I made this thread. I don't see any correlation at all between being able to make friends with men or women and dating.

 

Numerous people in this thread have tried to explain it to you. If you truly can't see any correlation between normal social interaction and the ability to form lasting relationships with people with dating, then you are a lost cause.

 

How about this? Most girls will think it is really, really strange (and possibly even a red flag) that you have no close male friends at your age. See how that might affect your attempts to date?

 

Since I am easily attracted to most women, I would have to seek out a woman that I consider "ugly" if I wanted to be friends with a woman I'm not attracted to.

 

What about the two women in your salsa class that you claim like you?

 

As it is right now, I do befriend girls because they have a fun personality and common interests as me etc. And more often than not, those girls are halfway decent looking and there is a near 100% chance that I will end up being attracted to her. Just to make things clear, I do not try to make friends with girls because I think they are pretty. Personality is the number one factor for me.

 

So how many ugly girl friends do you have?

 

I "bother" because I enjoy interacting with women regardless if I'm going to have sex with them or not.

 

Really? Because it seems like your only interest in any of the girls you talk to is whether or not they will go out on a date with you.

 

No, they can't. If they did, no woman would ever get "used for sex."

 

None of them are having sex with you, though. I'm saying they can see it with you.

 

I would gladly have sex with the vast majority of girls I interact with in my daily life and none of them can tell.

 

See?

 

Don't fool yourself. They can tell.

 

I don't come across as some super creep. If I did, would I be able to have female friends?

 

I'm curious about all these female friends you now claim to have. What types of things do you do together? Do you hang out with them one on one? How often do you see them off-campus? Have you been to their apartments?

 

Learn what? What could I possibly gain from spending time with them versus somebody I'm actually attracted to?

 

About women. Duh.

 

If I so desired, I could have a bunch of platonic female friends.

 

But I thought you said above you do have a bunch of platonic female friends...all of whom you want to have sex with. But none of them know.

 

But I'm a straight man and I desire sex, so I'm not satisfied with platonic only relationships.

 

This is the point. You are only friends with them because you hope they might sleep with you someday, no matter what you say. You are a walking cliche.

[PJKino]

Women are very perceptive. We can tell a lot more than you think.

 

I know a guy about your age, cute face, really hot body, on the shorter side (but about my husband's height), and sooo shy with women. I'm married, and I've given him that pep talk before. He's never told me he's insecure. He just doesn't make a move like all the other guys do. He sits back and watches and waits for certain signs that never come. Everyone can see it.

 

Some of us are just like that were scared to approach..everyone has certain phobias or insecurities they cant get rid of some more extreme then others ours lie with women and is extreme.

 

We know the problem but if we could just snap our fingers and get over it we would.

 

I wish i wasnt that way as im sure sd and the guy you mentioned but feel that way as well but its not that easy and people who just rip men like us saying its unattractive or unamasculine really doesnt help the situation or make us magically unafraid to approach all of a sudden.

[xxoo]

Some of us are just like that were scared to approach..everyone has certain phobias or insecurities they cant get rid of some more extreme then others ours lie with women and is extreme.

 

We know the problem but if we could just snap our fingers and get over it we would.

 

I wish i wasnt that way as im sure sd and the guy you mentioned but feel that way as well but its not that easy and people who just rip men like us saying its unattractive or unamasculine really doesnt help the situation or make us magically unafraid to approach all of a sudden.

 

I'm not ripping into you. And I don't think SD knows what the problem is. He blames looks, height, shallowness of women, etc. That's not it. This is it. It's basic social skills. That is the basis for the whole thread.

[PJKino]

I'm not ripping into you. And I don't think SD knows what the problem is. He blames looks, height, shallowness of women, etc. That's not it. This is it. It's basic social skills. That is the basis for the whole thread.

 

for sd yes i agree though he seems to at least build a repoire with women just cant escalate it

 

For guys like me and the guy you mentioned its crippling fear..not easy to fix at all unfortunately which may cost us a chance at women but it is what it is

[Weezy1973]

OP, I think the responses you're getting reflect two completely different things: you are talking about, plain and simple, attracting women. And you're right - having friends or not having friends has no affect on attracting women per se.

 

That being said, a lot of people here are going a step further than just attracting women, and that is actually being in a relationship with a woman. For me the "red flag" is not the fact that you don't have any close friends, it's the fact that you don't care that you don't have friends and aren't willing to do (or actually want to do) anything to change it.

 

For most humans, human connection is literally what it's all about - whether it be romantic relationships or platonic relationships. That's it. We're born, we die. Connecting with people is what makes it all worthwhile.

 

Also, men (like you) tend to focus on more superficial qualities like looks when it comes to wanting a relationship. Women also care about looks, but tend to be more concerned about deeper qualities; like the ability to connect to another human being. You can see from the responses that the women are trying desperately to try to explain how important it is to make those deep connections with other people. You aren't buying it because you are focused on the attraction part of the equation.

 

The key (in my opinion) to attracting women is in understanding that they want that connection and bridging that gap. That takes something called empathy. That is what people talk about when they say you can't see things from another persons perspective. You can't understand that women struggle in dating; or that even very good looking women can struggle (oh! the blasphemy!!). Again it takes empathy and you seem to lack it. There is a great deal of literature on empathy and some people think you're born with it and some people think you can learn it. Regardless, it would be in your best interest to look into it and see if you can develop empathy. Then make friends. Then maybe get a girlfriend.

[somedude81]

Didn't you just post an entire thread about how you have no social circle? Didn't you just post an entire thread about how you had nothing to do for spring break and no one to hang out with so you were considering going on vacation alone?

Why do you think not having friends now = I've never had any friends?

How are you defining a "friend"? I'm not referring to someone you chit chat with in class every now and then or walk to your next class with from time to time or even exchange an e-mail with once a month.

No, I'm not calling someone I'm only at that level with a friend. Those people are class buddies.

 

It's been a little over a year that I had somebody I would call a friend. And yes we did spend a lot of time together off campus. Just in case you were wondering, yes it was a girl and yes I did like her. But that doesn't change the fact that we considered each other to be friends.

 

"Also are you telling me that not being able to make male friends has a stronger correlation to me failing with women then me being able to make female friends?"

Yes.

 

Why? How is making guy friends more similar to dating than making female friends.

 

Numerous people in this thread have tried to explain it to you. If you truly can't see any correlation between normal social interaction and the ability to form lasting relationships with people with dating, then you are a lost cause.

 

How about this? Most girls will think it is really, really strange (and possibly even a red flag) that you have no close male friends at your age. See how that might affect your attempts to date?

Most people don't ask how many friends another person has. Unless an indivdual is super weird, nobody is going to assume that they don't have any friends.

 

There is no reason I couldn't get through at least a few dates before a woman starts to question me about my friends.

 

What about the two women in your salsa class that you claim like you?

Why would I want to talk to them over anyone else in the class? In a room full of pretty girls, it makes no sense to try and talk to the only girls I'm not attracted to.

 

There is nothing I could possibly gain by talking to them that I couldn't get from somebody else more attractive.

 

So how many ugly girl friends do you have?

Zero. Just the way I like it.

 

Really? Because it seems like your only interest in any of the girls you talk to is whether or not they will go out on a date with you.

You're jumping to conclusions. I'm not going to go into reasons why I like interaction with women beyond the desire to sleep with them.

 

None of them are having sex with you, though. I'm saying they can see it with you.

Do you think the girl in my class I had emailed thinks I want to sleep with her? If she does, do you believe she cares?

 

A woman with any level of common sense should understand that the vast majority of men she interacts with want to sleep with her.

 

Many many men are far more open about their desires and they get them fulfilled more frequently than I do.

I'm curious about all these female friends you now claim to have. What types of things do you do together? Do you hang out with them one on one? How often do you see them off-campus? Have you been to their apartments?

 

But I thought you said above you do have a bunch of platonic female friends...all of whom you want to have sex with. But none of them know.

You're getting confused.

 

No I don't have any female friends right now. I have specifically chosen to not have any female friends. I have spent far too much time in platonic only friendships with women and have never dated anyone.

 

It's extremely frustrating for me to spend time alone with a woman and then go home alone.

 

People are always talking about empathy in my threads, try to apply that to what I just said.

 

This is the point. You are only friends with them because you hope they might sleep with you someday, no matter what you say. You are a walking cliche.

Just because a man wants to sleep with a woman, does not mean that the possibility of sex is the only reason he interacts with her.

 

You seem to have a very narrow view of men if you truly believe what you said.

 

As long as I don't have actual feelings for a girl, I will still be friends with a girl even if I know we will never have sex.