Attraction isn't relevant for friendships

[Els]

I kept trying because I had very strong feelings for her.

 

(Waits for rebuttal saying I only wanted sex or whatever you can come up with.)

 

 

I desired to hurt her because I was angry. I'm hardly the first person to wish ill of somebody they had strong feelings towards.

 

 

There is no debate whether we were friends or not.

 

And no I will not accept that I have not been making friends. Such a claim is ridiculous.

 

Let me ask you this, do you believe that because a man desires to have sex with a women, he could never be her friend?

 

I think you're misinterpreting my point here. The point is that in this thread, people give you a myriad of reasons why having friends help, and you say 'Why, I have had friends recently, and that did not work!' You then proceed to provide examples of friends, all of whom are women whom you actually desired a relationship with.

 

There is nothing wrong with being friends with women, but when your ONLY friends have been women whom you have wanted to sleep with (no, I'm not saying that's all you want from them)... no men, no women whom you were not attracted to... can you blame people for doubting your definition of the term?

Edited May 10, 2013 by Elswyth

[sillyanswer]

Learn what? What could I possibly gain from spending time with them versus somebody I'm actually attracted to?

 

How to make friends with, and relate to, women who you don't fancy.

 

LOL! I have no problems making friends with women!

 

But only if you're attracted to them?

[Emilia]

How do you tell someone they need to develop their social skills when they don't understand what social skills are?

[ThaWholigan]

How do you tell someone they need to develop their social skills when they don't understand what social skills are?

You stop trying and accept they will either have to figure it out on their own, or they never will.

 

Sadly......

[Eclypse]

 

 

Why would I want to talk to them over anyone else in the class? In a room full of pretty girls, it makes no sense to try and talk to the only girls I'm not attracted to.

 

There is nothing I could possibly gain by talking to them that I couldn't get from somebody else more attractive.

 

 

 

Ok did you really just type that? No wonder you're having troubles with all social aspects of your life. You have people here who are offering their friendship, and you treat them the way you do? That doesn't come often, soon enough they'll stop trying.

 

On the topic of friends, they are really important to have. I wouldn't say I have a huge social circle but I have some really close buddies I would trust with my life. One of my best friends and I go hiking every Sunday. We just hop in the car and go out into the country and find good spots. And it's amazing to just get away from life with someone like that. We can just talk and catch up and forget about the world. And when we get back we play COD

 

But seriously... having someone you can call up and hang out with, I can't stress how important that is for your mental state and happiness. You can't just focus on getting girls. There has to be more to life.

[Els]

Ok did you really just type that? No wonder you're having troubles with all social aspects of your life. You have people here who are offering their friendship, and you treat them the way you do? That doesn't come often, soon enough they'll stop trying.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Even the most superficial people I know don't base their choice of friends on physical attractiveness.

[Eclypse]

Quoted for truth.

 

Even the most superficial people I know don't base their choice of friends on physical attractiveness.

 

Yeah that shouldn't really matter :S even less if he's making friends with guys (which he should). I've got lots of girls I'm friends with who I wouldn't date, and I'm sure they wouldn't date me either. It would be like cousins dating each other:sick:

[somedude81]

I disagree. If you are young and single, friends are a great place to practice flirting! It's a comfortable relationship, and you can push the envelope until she punches you in the arm and giggles, "knock it off!"

I thought I wasn't allowed to flirt with friends. No I'm not being sarcastic. So that means it's OK to make passes at female friends? What if they are already taken?

How to make friends with, and relate to, women who you don't fancy.

And I'd want to do that because?

Ok did you really just type that? No wonder you're having troubles with all social aspects of your life. You have people here who are offering their friendship, and you treat them the way you do? That doesn't come often, soon enough they'll stop trying.

Who are you talking about and how to do you think I treat them?

On the topic of friends, they are really important to have. I wouldn't say I have a huge social circle but I have some really close buddies I would trust with my life. One of my best friends and I go hiking every Sunday. We just hop in the car and go out into the country and find good spots. And it's amazing to just get away from life with someone like that. We can just talk and catch up and forget about the world. And when we get back we play COD

Yeah that sounds great. It would be cool to have friends to do things with.

Yeah that shouldn't really matter :S even less if he's making friends with guys (which he should). I've got lots of girls I'm friends with who I wouldn't date, and I'm sure they wouldn't date me either. It would be like cousins dating each other:sick:

Why wouldn't you date them?

 

And no, they being a friend for too long isn't a valid answer. That basically says that you would have dated them back when you were still new friends.

[Els]

Something just stood out to me here.

 

I've noticed that you regard your effort and time as very, very, very precious things, SD. As in, you won't put any in if you aren't going to get very specific and immediate things that you deem important to you. There is no thought about long-term personal growth, or experiencing new things, or learning. And, in fact, little desire to put in effort, period.

 

This stood out to me the most when you talked about how you were constantly failing your classes year after year, and talked about how you probably have a learning disability because of that... then it came out that you considered it unthinkable to put in 1-2 hours of studying a day. Which, as most of us tried to convince you, most full-time students actually do (and more), unless they are exceptionally bright/talented.

 

This transactional mindset comes out again here, where you talk about how there's no 'point' in putting in the effort to make friends with men and unattractive women, because 'if you're going to put in effort it might as well be with a woman you're attracted to'. As if your effort is an extremely limited well that will run dry the second you try to tap it.

 

Honest question, have you spoken to a professional about this? If you've mentioned it and I missed it, apologies.

[fortyninethousand322]

So how come whenever I make a thread about dating, people always mention friends?

 

Making friends with girls, is completely different from being able to date them.

 

Then it makes even less sense when people bring up guy friends. It's just a random comment.

 

The theory is that you want to be a sociable person. Makes it so you have stuff to do in your life and you wouldn't be just constantly hovering around your girlfriend all the time. It basically makes you more attractive to perspective mates. Or so the theory goes.

 

On a marginal basis, you're correct the two are not really all that related. With girls you're friends with (at least IME) there's a bit of a line there vs women you want to date.

 

Also, the hope is that maybe if one has female friends, these friends might be willing to introduce you to their single friends and you could date them. Although, IME, women aren't likely to want to do that. Maybe a real good female friend but otherwise it's not something that happens all that often.

 

So, you're right in some ways, wrong in others I think...

[fortyninethousand322]

Why wouldn't you date them?

 

And no, they being a friend for too long isn't a valid answer. That basically says that you would have dated them back when you were still new friends.

 

I know this isn't related to me SD, but I have a close female friend whom I've known since I was 12, whom I have no interest in dating. I think early on in high school she liked me but she was into drugs, booze, and rock and roll scene and I wanted no part of that. Probably if she was not into that stuff I would have dated her.

 

Anyway, long story short, she's totally changed over the years. Lost weight, really gorgeous woman, still does the rock thing, just without the smokes, the weed, and lighter on the booze. Still though, after all these years she's a sister to me now. Too weird for me to picture trying to date her.

[sillyanswer]

And I'd want to do that because?

 

Because you might learn something about interpersonal relationships with women that will help you with the ones you do want to sleep with, I've mentioned before. Plus, you might make friends.

[Eclypse]

 

Who are you talking about and how to do you think I treat them?

 

 

The two ugly girls in your salsa class who keep trying to talk to you. If they were horrible people I would understand it but it seems the only reason you don't want to talk to them is because they aren't hot. Surely you can talk to both hot and ugly girls?

[Eclypse]

 

Why wouldn't you date them?

 

And no, they being a friend for too long isn't a valid answer. That basically says that you would have dated them back when you were still new friends.

 

Because I don't see them in that sort of way. Purely platonic relationships can exist. Just because they are female doesn't mean I want to have sex with them automatically. I might just want to hang out and be friends.

 

Sure sometimes I reckon my female friends are hot, but I definitely wouldn't make a move on them. I have had crushes on female friends sometimes of course too though. The times I have made a move on them didn't end too well. Other times I'll just focus on other girls then.

[PJKino]

I disagree. If you are young and single, friends are a great place to practice flirting! It's a comfortable relationship, and you can push the envelope until she punches you in the arm and giggles, "knock it off!"

 

 

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with him, or you. I'm just explaining why women aren't getting the sexy vibe from him.

 

Do you think there is something "wrong" with women who look past shy guys? Is there something "wrong" with men who look past fat women?

 

Everyones entitled to their preference its just a shame that women need a life of the party look at me type of guy.

 

You said your friend you described is good in one on one setting shouldnt that be enough to sustain a relationship?

 

Why do women need their men to command attention even in group settings?

 

Seems like a status thing to me that women need their man validated and looked up to by others.

 

Sort of that alpha/group leader thing that for some reason turns women on..

[Emilia]

Everyones entitled to their preference its just a shame that women need a life of the party look at me type of guy.

 

You said your friend you described is good in one on one setting shouldnt that be enough to sustain a relationship?

 

Why do women need their men to command attention even in group settings?

 

Seems like a status thing to me that women need their man validated and looked up to by others.

 

Sort of that alpha/group leader thing that for some reason turns women on..

 

It's more that shy guys are hard work. Not because they are not approaching but because they require a mind reader. This isn't just the case at the initial attraction stages but also later on in a relationship. I know shy guys, they make great friends but it would take an inordinate amount of work to turn them into boyfriends.

[Eclypse]

Everyones entitled to their preference its just a shame that women need a life of the party look at me type of guy.

 

You said your friend you described is good in one on one setting shouldnt that be enough to sustain a relationship?

 

Why do women need their men to command attention even in group settings?

 

Seems like a status thing to me that women need their man validated and looked up to by others.

 

Sort of that alpha/group leader thing that for some reason turns women on..

 

Women certainly do not need a life of the party in your face kinda guy. Sure some want that, but definitely not all. And certainly very few would only want that kind of guy.

 

I am not an in your face kinda guy and neither is my girlfriend. What women do appreciate is someone who is easy to talk to and get along with. The guy xxoo described was not that. It doesn't sound like conversation with him flowed naturally. Would you want to date someone who made you feel awkward and uncomfortable? Women also value traits like honesty, loyalty and of course the bravery to walk up to them and ask them out

[PJKino]

I disagree. If you are young and single, friends are a great place to practice flirting! It's a comfortable relationship, and you can push the envelope until she punches you in the arm and giggles, "knock it off!"

 

 

 

 

None of my friends would be happy if i flirted with their wives even playfully neither would their wives.

[clia]

Hell, here is a thread I made about the girl. It has 1,000 posts and runs from July 2011 till the end of November.

 

I obviously didn't read this entire thread since it is ridiculously long, but it is disturbing how much of a duplicate that thread is to the current one -- page after page of people trying to convince you that you need platonic relationships, male friends, female friends who you aren't attracted to, etc.

 

So, here you are in 2013 in the exact same position you were in in 2011.

 

Do you intend to still be in the same place in 2015?

 

At what point will you realize that what you are doing isn't working and actually take some of the advice that people on this site have spent a lot of time providing? It might do you some good to re-read that thread. Teknoe, in particular, gave you a lot of great advice.

 

At any rate, I'm done responding to your threads after seeing that. You post under the guise that you want help, but really you don't. You just want to complain and tell us how we're all wrong. If you wanted to change, you would have done something in the past two years. Instead, it's the same old, same old. You haven't learned anything.

[somedude81]

Something just stood out to me here.

 

I've noticed that you regard your effort and time as very, very, very precious things, SD. As in, you won't put any in if you aren't going to get very specific and immediate things that you deem important to you. There is no thought about long-term personal growth, or experiencing new things, or learning. And, in fact, little desire to put in effort, period.

 

This stood out to me the most when you talked about how you were constantly failing your classes year after year, and talked about how you probably have a learning disability because of that... then it came out that you considered it unthinkable to put in 1-2 hours of studying a day. Which, as most of us tried to convince you, most full-time students actually do (and more), unless they are exceptionally bright/talented.

 

This transactional mindset comes out again here, where you talk about how there's no 'point' in putting in the effort to make friends with men and unattractive women, because 'if you're going to put in effort it might as well be with a woman you're attracted to'. As if your effort is an extremely limited well that will run dry the second you try to tap it.

 

Honest question, have you spoken to a professional about this? If you've mentioned it and I missed it, apologies.

You should do some research on depression and also how it affects motivation.

 

A few pages ago I did mention the things I did to try and make male friends.

Because you might learn something about interpersonal relationships with women that will help you with the ones you do want to sleep with, I've mentioned before. Plus, you might make friends.

Consider this. The primary location I meet and talk to girls is (was) in my salsa class. There is approximately 5-10 minutes that I can talk to people before and after class. There is a large number of attractive girls in the class.

 

Based on how the "cliques" are set up if I talked to the unattractive girls before class, I literally would not be able to talk to anybody else until the next class. When I'm trying to build rapport with somebody I could be interested in going on a date with, and time is very limited. It doesn't make any sense to spend time talking with people I have no interest in. Also talk to a person or a group often enough and it almost feels like an obligation to do so. There have been a few mornings where I got "stuck" talking to the bigger girls and felt that I should have been talking to somebody else trying to build a connection. Considering how I didn't even ask out somebody from this class, it tells me that I didn't correctly utilize the limited time I had.

[somedude81]

None of my friends would be happy if i flirted with their wives even playfully neither would their wives.

I wish somebody would address the flirting point.

 

I thank xxoo for bringing it up as that might lead to a very important issue.

[PJKino]

I wish somebody would address the flirting point.

 

I thank xxoo for bringing it up as that might lead to a very important issue.

 

xxoo means well but shes a highly sexual flirtatious person who gets off on over the top flirting and sexual innuendos said to her but most women arent like that especially early on a lot will be creeped out by it

 

AS i said also flirting with married women in my social circle would only lead to anger from my friend and the women and i myself wouldnt feel right about it because theyres a line i dont think you cross imo.

 

While i agree that our level of passivness isnt good either i also think their has to be a middle ground between passiveness and xxoo wanting men to put it all out there sexually right away as well and try to be close to over the top with crassness.

 

I dont think she undestands from a womens perspective that as a man that thin line can get you punched in the face:laugh: a women doesnt face the same consequences

[Treasa]

xxoo means well but shes a highly sexual flirtatious person who gets off on over the top flirting and sexual innuendos said to her but most women arent like that especially early on a lot will be creeped out by it

 

AS i said also flirting with married women in my social circle would only lead to anger from my friend and the women and i myself wouldnt feel right about it because theyres a line i dont think you cross imo.

 

While i agree that our level of passivness isnt good either i also think their has to be a middle ground between passiveness and xxoo wanting men to put it all out there sexually right away as well and try to be close to over the top with crassness.

 

I dont think she undestands from a womens perspective that as a man that thin line can get you punched in the face:laugh: a women doesnt face the same consequences

 

It's amazing, truly, the depth of your understanding of what it's like to be a woman, and to understand what most women want.

[PJKino]

It's amazing, truly, the depth of your understanding of what it's like to be a woman, and to understand what most women want.

 

How do you know what most women want? you know what YOU want. Ive hit on more women then you im guessing so im more qualified to know what a large group of women prefer when being hit on lol

[somedude81]

It's amazing, truly, the depth of your understanding of what it's like to be a woman, and to understand what most women want.

Don't pay him no mind. Talk to me about flirting.