No one ever started a war over Wicca

[Robert Z]

A bumper sticker I saw today that caught my attention.

 

An interesting point. And it gets to the heart of the matter of why so many people are becoming strongly anti-religious. I was once very religious but have to admit that the logic is inescapable for me as well. Religion seems to be more about war and invading the private lives of others, than peace and love. In some ways, "religion" is becoming a symbol for what is worst about us, not best.

 

Consider our role in the ME and our support of Israel. What is the primary motivator for this? An ally in the region, yes, but the support goes deeper than that. This has a lot to do with religion as well. We all know that any enemy of Israel will answer to God, right? Christians believe it is their religious duty to protect Israel, and this has a strong influence on our foreign policy.

 

You can find videos of religios groups beating the war drums and wanting to help bring about the Armageddon. They believe they are doing God's work to start not just a war, but THE war!

 

I often look at groups that appeal to the old Testament. Consider this: That is anti-Christian! With Jesus came a new way, but those claiming to be followers of Christ still cling to hell, fire, and brimstone.

 

For example, I was just tossed a quote from Proverbs the other day. What does that have to do with Christ? I think Jesus said that he is the light, not some book from the old Testament.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I often look at groups that appeal to the old Testament. Consider this: That is anti-Christian! With Jesus came a new way, but those claiming to be followers of Christ still cling to hell, fire, and brimstone.

 

For example, I was just tossed a quote from Proverbs the other day. What does that have to do with Christ? I think Jesus said that he is the light, not some book from the old Testament.

 

Actually, many many times in the New Testament, Jesus speaks of the absolute truth of the Old. For example:

 

Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill

 

Matthew 5:18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

 

Not saying I believe it, but it's there. A lot.

[M30USA]

POP QUIZ

 

From the years of 1900-1999 which of the following religions/worldviews was responsible for the most total war deaths?

 

A) Islam

B) Hinduism

C) Buddhism

D) Christianity

E) Atheism

[carhill]

Wicca, unlike organized religion, doesn't have the wealth or power base worth warring over. Whole regions of the world have been changed by religious wars and they are some of the most ancient purveyors of death known. Religion may be divine but killing is human. We're pretty good at it. Religion is merely another excuse.

[somedude81]

POP QUIZ

 

From the years of 1900-1999 which of the following religions/worldviews was responsible for the most total war deaths?

 

A) Islam

B) Hinduism

C) Buddhism

D) Christianity

E) Atheism

My answer is Christianity.

 

You could actually rephrase the question to "From the years of 30 A.D to present day" and the answer would be the same.

[M30USA]

My answer is Christianity.

 

You could actually rephrase the question to "From the years of 30 A.D to present day" and the answer would be the same.

 

Any other people wanna guess?

[KathyM]

does religion cause wars?

 

It's a myth that religion is the cause of most wars in the last 100 years.

[Els]

Any other people wanna guess?

 

Not sure I want to 'guess' when we all know the 'answer', but your 'answer' will be different because it comes from 'christianmythbusters.com' or something.

 

Frankly all the 'boohoo but he hit me first!' fingerpointing is childish and unproductive. People should be ashamed of the heinous acts that ALL religious extremists have wrought, rather than attempting to defend their religious extremists by saying that others are worse.

 

Edit: Wow, I totally posted this before reading Kathy's. Am I clairvoyant or what?

[pureinheart]

Any other people wanna guess?

 

I would guess Islam based on the belief that infidels must die (here), not judged by Allah?

[M30USA]

Correct answer is E (atheism).

 

Less than 1% of all war/political deaths from 1900-1999 were caused by religious nations.

 

Just to give you an idea of what we are looking at, Mao Zedong of China was responsible for ~75 million deaths alone. That's about 3 times more than Hitler caused in Holocaust.

 

Atheism (or the political equivalent of communism) is the single biggest driver of political and/or war deaths in the 20th century. Pinning this on Christianity (or religion as a whole) is factually refutable.

[pureinheart]

Correct answer is E (atheism).

 

Less than 1% of all war/political deaths from 1900-1999 were caused by religious nations.

 

Just to give you an idea of what we are looking at, Mao Zedong of China was responsible for ~75 million deaths alone. That's about 3 times more than Hitler caused in Holocaust.

 

Atheism (or the political equivalent of communism) is the single biggest driver of political and/or war deaths in the 20th century. Pinning this on Christianity (or religion as a whole) is factually refutable.

 

Wow...not trying to be uncool, although it completely lets "religion" off the hook and that does make me happy-

 

Do you know how many blame war on religion and how many people hate religion because of this! Many say religion has ruined the world, but it hasn't.

 

Well SD we were both wrong, I was going to say Atheism as a second answer, but Atheism didn't seem to make sense because in my mind Atheism isn't a religion.

 

Is Atheism more of a political system?

[pureinheart]

My answer is Christianity.

 

You could actually rephrase the question to "From the years of 30 A.D to present day" and the answer would be the same.

 

SD, do we have any data on this, or was it the same then as it has been in the last century.

 

I know that Christianity (or those using the "name") did murder nonbelievers back then should they not concede to the faith.

[M30USA]

Is Atheism more of a political system?

 

Atheism is a philosophical worldview. In the strict definition, it's not a political system. However, it has been said by great minds on both sides of the table that when you have a nation of atheists, the end result will be communism. You might have heard the phrase, "Communism is government without God". Isn't it funny that as America grows farther and farther away from God that we resemble communism (and economic patterns of socialism) more and more? This is not coincidence.

[pureinheart]

A bumper sticker I saw today that caught my attention.

 

An interesting point. And it gets to the heart of the matter of why so many people are becoming strongly anti-religious. I was once very religious but have to admit that the logic is inescapable for me as well. Religion seems to be more about war and invading the private lives of others, than peace and love. In some ways, "religion" is becoming a symbol for what is worst about us, not best.

 

Consider our role in the ME and our support of Israel. What is the primary motivator for this? An ally in the region, yes, but the support goes deeper than that. This has a lot to do with religion as well. We all know that any enemy of Israel will answer to God, right? Christians believe it is their religious duty to protect Israel, and this has a strong influence on our foreign policy.

 

You can find videos of religios groups beating the war drums and wanting to help bring about the Armageddon. They believe they are doing God's work to start not just a war, but THE war!

 

I often look at groups that appeal to the old Testament. Consider this: That is anti-Christian! With Jesus came a new way, but those claiming to be followers of Christ still cling to hell, fire, and brimstone.

 

For example, I was just tossed a quote from Proverbs the other day. What does that have to do with Christ? I think Jesus said that he is the light, not some book from the old Testament.

 

IDK Robert, seems to me that the support of Israel politically has waxed and waned for many years now concerning the US- it's not even close to as strong as it used to be. It seems as if we have been telling them what "we" want them to do rather than supporting them.

[AlexDP]

Correct answer is E (atheism).

 

Less than 1% of all war/political deaths from 1900-1999 were caused by religious nations.

 

Just to give you an idea of what we are looking at, Mao Zedong of China was responsible for ~75 million deaths alone. That's about 3 times more than Hitler caused in Holocaust.

 

Atheism (or the political equivalent of communism) is the single biggest driver of political and/or war deaths in the 20th century. Pinning this on Christianity (or religion as a whole) is factually refutable.

 

 

Hitler and Mao were idealized leaders, looked up to as gods. It had nothing to do with atheism. Hitler and Mao certainly did not kill "in the name of atheism". You're comparing apples with oranges.

[Anela]

I think that Wicca would be included in the list of things that certain people of other religions, would be against others practicing, wouldn't it? Those things that westerners do that offend them.

 

I'm also thinking of things like the Salem Witch trials, and what I've heard about Christianity taking certain things from the Wiccan traditions (Yule becoming Christmas, Ostara becoming Easter, etc). Are you talking about Wiccans not starting wars?

[Els]

Hitler and Mao were idealized leaders, looked up to as gods. It had nothing to do with atheism. Hitler and Mao certainly did not kill "in the name of atheism". You're comparing apples with oranges.

 

Not to mention that the rationale of Hitler's atrocities against the Jews was a (mis)-interpretation of justified anti-Semitism from the Bible.

 

I agree that 'religion' killed nobody; but religious extremists, who were unable to use conscience and good logic to counter their religious obsessions, killed plenty.

 

Anyone who refutes that is drawing from biased sources.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Not sure I want to 'guess' when we all know the 'answer', but your 'answer' will be different because it comes from 'christianmythbusters.com' or something.

 

 

You're clairvoyant!

[TaxAHCruel]

POP QUIZ

 

Aside from the obvious fact that atheism is not a religion, which moots the usefulness of the above, I think you would do well to bold AND underline the words "responsible for" in the above "pop quiz" as many people with an agenda will answer the above by ignoring that.

 

Instead the way people answer it is by declaring that the PEOPLE responsible were Islamic/Christian/Atheist (often incorrectly in many cases) and therefore try to link the blame to Islam/Christianity/Atheism by proxy. Which is at best an egregious error and at worst a willful and dishonest canard.

 

Take Atheism for example which I suspect is the target of your little game. I have yet to be shown how it "causes" anything - let alone war and death on massive scales.

 

Atheism is a philosophical worldview.

 

False. It is a term which highlights the lack of one particular world view. Nothing more. It is not a world view in and of itself. The term "atheism" really is quite empty otherwise.

 

An atheist can be a nihilist or a humanist. The actual world view of any given atheist will be as individual as they are.

Edited May 8, 2013 by TaxAHCruel

[TaxAHCruel]

does religion cause wars?

 

It's a myth that religion is the cause of most wars in the last 100 years.

 

As I said to the user above I actually would come close to agreeing with you here.

 

What tends to cloud the water in discussions such as this is the error - an error which some people make willfully to serve an agenda but many actually do make the error - of thinking that "X was a Christian therefore what X did was caused by Christianity".

 

While clearly our history is punctuated by hatred and violence with a specifically religious cause - it is beyond reasonable to suggest that the majority of wars and violence is caused by religion. In my own country of Ireland there is sectarian hatred between Catholics and Protestants and their religion is the line they use to MARK that divide - but even the most cursory knowledge of history shows that the actual foundation of the divide is related to politics and land.

 

There are people on both sides who will miss - often intentionally - these distinctions which is a shame as it serves to only destroy discourse. At the same time however one must actually explore the causal potential of hatred and violence in different world views. Can theism lead to violence and hatred? Yes very much so. Can atheism? Perhaps - but I have thus far seen no reason to think so nor has anyone moved to show me one - much less on this thread.

[gaius]

Wicca is descended from the old Pagan religions. No Pagans ever started a war? :confused::confused: I guess she's been riding her broomstick so much that she never heard of the Roman Empire.

[gaius]

I don't think anything is fought over religion really. If you look deeper into the history of things, especially in the middle east, you can see religion spreads down along already well built social fault lines. The people who want to be different from their neighbor adopt different religions. It's not like Islam came to a village with nothing but a peaceful history, half of the village decided to be Shia and the other half Sunni and they've been at war ever since. It doesn't work exactly that way. It's more complicated. Way easy for an outsider to see religion as the problem though.

Edited May 8, 2013 by gaius

[M30USA]

Mao Zedong of Chain, were not atheists

 

Did you find that out from a Google search? I could find a website that says 2+2=5 if I wanted to.

[Els]

They weren't atheists. They were inspired by your god. Deal with it.

 

Uh, I'm hardly on M30's side, but I'm pretty damn sure that Mao Ze Dong was NOT a Christian or even a 'Christian'...

[KathyM]

Hitler was not a Christian either--far from it. He only used Christianity as a front to further his wicked agenda. His agenda was power and greed, and those two things were the reason for WWII. As the article pointed out that I posted, most wars are started because one nation's leader seeks more power, more territory, more assets. Desert Storm was started because Husein wanted more territory and more assets (oil) from Kuwait. WWII was started because Hitler wanted more territory and power. The Korean War was started to stop the spread of communism, as a result of North Korea invading South Korea. Same thing with the Viet Nam war. The leader of one country decides he wants more territory, more assets, more power, and that is what leads to war most of the time. Religion has very little or nothing to do with most wars.