The Book of Enoch

[pureinheart]

Just curoius about this- my friend and me were talking about this today, and she feels strongly that it should be in the Bible. She had some really good points. She believes without a doubt the Bible is the inspired Word of God, although man failed to include ths book.

 

 

http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/enoch/ENOCH_1.HTM

[M30USA]

Here are my "talking points" on the book of Enoch:

 

1) The book of Enoch, in its current form, is of questionable origin. However, what we know for sure is that the book of Jude makes reference to the book of Enoch. This means at the very least that there once was a book of Enoch that the writers of Scripture viewed as authentic. Is this the same version as one we have today? That's up for debate.

 

2) The most valuable use of book of Enoch is for grammar and historical context. For example, just like the Bible and other ancient non-biblical texts, it clearly uses the phrase "sons of God" to mean angels. And considering it uses the phrase in the context of the events corresponding to Genesis 6, it further supports the "angel view" of Nephilim debate.

 

3) Much of the book of Enoch is missing or fragmented. This is a main reason why it's not used in cannon.

[Robert Z]

Alright M30USA, maybe you can help me here. I clearly remember studying the ranks of angels while I was attending a Catholic school. Are there any books in the bible that talk about this. I only remember seeing it in the book of Enoch. It struck me as curious.

[M30USA]

Alright M30USA, maybe you can help me here. I clearly remember studying the ranks of angels while I was attending a Catholic school. Are there any books in the bible that talk about this. I only remember seeing it in the book of Enoch. It struck me as curious.

 

Unfortunately the subject of angels is never tackled head on in the Bible. You have to search out individual verses pertaining to angels. If you do, realize there are multiple biblical terms for angels including: angel(s), angel of the Lord, sons of God, star(s), cherub, cherubim, and seraphim.

 

As far as rank, it's pretty safe to assume that cherubim are the highest. These are the beings which directly surround God's throne. Satan, himself, is a cherub.

 

If you want to see a study on angels by a brilliant guy who really knows his shizzit, listen to this:

 

[Robert Z]

Unfortunately the subject of angels is never tackled head on in the Bible. You have to search out individual verses pertaining to angels. If you do, realize there are multiple biblical terms for angels including: angel(s), angel of the Lord, sons of God, star(s), cherub, cherubim, and seraphim.

 

That's what I thought, which is really interesting because it seems that I was taught something in a Catholic school as part of the standard curriculum, that apparently Catholics don't officially believe!

 

In Enoch, I believe the ranks are clearly lined out. While I remembered studying the ranks in school, as best as I can remember, we were never told the source. I had always assumed it came from the Catholic Bible. But it seemed that the first time I saw it again was in the book of Enoch. Being that I had read the Bible from cover to cover several times, this perplexed me.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Robert Z

[M30USA]

That's what I thought, which is really interesting because it seems that I was taught something in a Catholic school as part of the standard curriculum, that apparently Catholics don't officially believe!

 

In Enoch, I believe the ranks are clearly lined out. While I remembered studying the ranks in school, as best as I can remember, we were never told the source. I had always assumed it came from the Catholic Bible. But it seemed that the first time I saw it again was in the book of Enoch. Being that I had read the Bible from cover to cover several times, this perplexed me.

 

I know what you mean about people teaching and studying things they don't even believe. It's hilarious and yet sad.

 

As far as I know, the cannonical Bible never ranks angels. I tend to assume cherubim are highest only because Satan was a cherub. But you could also argue archangels are since Michael, who will fight Satan in the final war, is an archangel. Trurthfully I don't see any point in ranking angels if we don't even know what the different types mean!

 

The only thing I am adamant about is that Scripture clearly states Jesus was NOT an angel. I can see why the ancients might have thought he was-- since he was human in appearance and possessed great powers. But Hebrews tells us that Jesus came "in the nature of man and not the nature of angels".

Edited May 11, 2013 by M30USA

[Robert Z]

I know what you mean about people teaching and studying things they don't even believe. It's hilarious and yet sad.

 

As far as I know, the cannonical Bible never ranks angels. I tend to assume cherubim are highest only because Satan was a cherub. But you could also argue archangels are since Michael, who will fight Satan in the final war, is an archangel. Trurthfully I don't see any point in ranking angels if we don't even know what the different types mean!

 

Isn't this all lined out in Enoch? There may be other Apocrypha involved and I'm just confusing the sources.

[M30USA]

Isn't this all lined out in Enoch? There may be other Apocrypha involved and I'm just confusing the sources.

 

I personally don't include Enoch or the apocrypha when I form my opinions on any subjects that matter. It's too risky. But like I said I use them for grammar and the fact that, at the very least, it reveals info about what the ancients BELIEVED about Scripture.

 

The crazy thing is that even if you completely remove Enoch as a source, you STILL can 100% support the angel view of Genesis 6.

[pureinheart]

Here are my "talking points" on the book of Enoch:

 

1) The book of Enoch, in its current form, is of questionable origin. However, what we know for sure is that the book of Jude makes reference to the book of Enoch. This means at the very least that there once was a book of Enoch that the writers of Scripture viewed as authentic. Is this the same version as one we have today? That's up for debate.

 

2) The most valuable use of book of Enoch is for grammar and historical context. For example, just like the Bible and other ancient non-biblical texts, it clearly uses the phrase "sons of God" to mean angels. And considering it uses the phrase in the context of the events corresponding to Genesis 6, it further supports the "angel view" of Nephilim debate.

 

3) Much of the book of Enoch is missing or fragmented. This is a main reason why it's not used in cannon.

 

Awesome dude, thank you so much. That is the word she used and was unable to remember- cannon.

 

When we get together we cover so many different areas of the Word, that it's difficult for me to remember everything...lol.

 

This has been a question that's been in the back of my mind for a few years now.

 

I think the reason it's so interesting to her is the fact that it does contain what you spoke of in talking point #2, the angel view/Nephilim...she is totally into that.

 

I had heard of and skimmed over the Nephilim and only became interested because of you and her. I now see it as a very important aspect of Biblical history- actually quite interesting because it does answer many questions concerning archaeological finds. It's wonderful to put all of the pieces together.

 

I watch the History Channel periodically, knowing a good portion is secular, and most explanations will be secular, yet I can't deny most of what has been uncovered/found. I need the Biblical explanation for understanding, so if that is not available I write it off as "not real"- by doing this ad not seeking more a lot is missed.

 

I thank you my dear Brother- you are responsible for one of my brain cells to remain active:D that is always a good thing:laugh:

[pureinheart]

Unfortunately the subject of angels is never tackled head on in the Bible. You have to search out individual verses pertaining to angels. If you do, realize there are multiple biblical terms for angels including: angel(s), angel of the Lord, sons of God, star(s), cherub, cherubim, and seraphim.

 

As far as rank, it's pretty safe to assume that cherubim are the highest. These are the beings which directly surround God's throne. Satan, himself, is a cherub.

 

If you want to see a study on angels by a brilliant guy who really knows his shizzit, listen to this:

 

 

I love Chuck Missler....

 

IMO it is essential to understand how the spiritual realm works...it really helps me concerning prayer and spiritual warfare.

 

Robert- you bring up some excellent points, and with that want to express my appreciation to the forum for all of the time spent in providing cool info- and that goes for all sides of the fence- Christian and all other faiths, or no faith (God). Intellectually it's difficult to keep up being a "heart" person, mostly dealing with matters of the heart....so this is all a real treat!