Time between MM planning divorce and actual divorce

[HKiddo]

My background is here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/392551-mm-plans-divorce#post4876280

 

The thread made me wonder a more general question: of those who have been with MM why have said they are asking for a divorce from his wife, how long did it take for that to actually happen? How long did it take before they were at least separated and living separate lives? At what point is that person's commitment to divorcing reliable? Of course generally, it's reliable when it happens, but we rely on other people's stated intentions all the time (ironically like in marriage) so why can't that work for stated intention to divorce as well?

[Goodbye]

Well, I can give you some different data. My own divorce took 3 years...a logistical mess with shared property and children.

 

My exMM said he was going to file for divorce last summer and still hasn't. He thought it would be "quick" because they only have one kid, are reasonably friendly, and have separate finances. Nope. Lots of MM say they have big divorce plans while in the throws of an affair..but pulling the plug is a much different story. Promises, promises, promises.

[So happy together]

Well, of course every situation is very different, but I'll give your our timeline. We met 18 years ago. Floated around one another, probably had an ea going this whole time, but really connected and went physical 18 months ago. We saw one another for about nine months and I told him that I needed more from a relationship. I gave him a year to be out of the house have divorce filed and us be in an open relationship. Four months later there was a Dday (although he'd already put plans in place to leave). He stayed three more weeks, he was still preparing his exit. Then she found his second bat phone. He told her he loved me, that he hadn't loved her in a long time and that it was over. He has been gone five months and filed a few weeks ago.

 

But this is just us.

[So happy together]

HK, very few mm actually carry through with their promises to divorce, very few. The evidence is all around this forum and others. Like anything there are exceptions but they are few and far between.

 

How much time are you willing to give up?

 

This is true. A lot don't. Some do, but a lot choose to stay. I honestly don't think you can put a timeline on it anyway. Although, all due respect, LG, I think there are more out there and that taking a sampling from forums is not accurate. They are just not talking about it because they are okay and don't feel the need.

[HKiddo]

Thank you all for your insight. It is really helpful. I understand that the percentage is very small. I read on some website that a study found that 5% of MM actually leave BW to be with OW. Didn't read the sampling size or methodology of that study though.

 

LadyGrey, I really appreciate your reminder of how rare it is. I guess I feel that since it's not rare enough to be unheard of, I'll try to figure out what indicators tends towards the 5% and whether those are present in my situation. I don't think this is an original endeavor, and how long I'm willing to wait will depend way too many variables. Just as there are no deadlines, I don't know how long I can/will/want to wait. I'm just trying to understand my situation better from everyone who's been through something similar.

[So happy together]

I don't have any other sampling to take it from happy, and with all due respect, I've been here at LS and I've visited a few other forums for a long time (years) and I've seen a lot of different posters come and go and some stay, and as I said, few get divorced. The evidence is right here, I don't have to skew any results. As for the ones that did divorce and don't post about it, you nor I know facts about that, so why even bring that up? It's not as if you have stats to back that up either.

 

I hope you don't feel I was attacking you. I wasn't. I am not accusing you of purposely skewing anything, either. I'm simply stating that things are different depending on where you look. For example, I know of two other couples besides me who were involved in an A, and are now divorced and with their affair partner, and are happy. So, if I went by that, it would be a rather large amount of people I know personally that made it. That's all I'm saying. I know it's not the norm, I know most don't leave. I just think it's a larger number than one in a million.

[So happy together]

Of course it happens, I think no one is debating you. But here on LS I can only recall about 5 stories where the OW ended up with the AP (including you). Of course it happens, but from the thousands of posts here it is certainly no where in the realm of normal. I only know of one such IRL story, and a weird one too. My acquaintance was cheating on his wife with a MOW, his wife and her husband discovered the affair, and both couples divorced and married the ex's. they are all still married today, 20+ years later. My sister also had an affair as a married woman, she divorced, and eventually married her MOM, but the marriage lasted less than a year, as they each accused the other of cheating. There was no trust between them. She ended up losing her alimony when she married, and ended up with nothing when she divorced husband #2 because the marriage was so short. She ended up filing for bankruptcy, lost her house, etc. So yea, it happens, sometimes with a longterm happy ending, sometimes not.

 

Yes, you're absolutely right. I'm sorry about your sister. That's a terrible situation.

[Spark1111]

according to the infidelity gurus....psychologists and counselors who have counseled thousands of couples...the stats are are a dismal 3 out of 100 who have left a marriage dead in the water and married an AP.

 

It is characterized by .....happiness. All friendsandfamily are supportive; the AP is introduced and embraced by all. The MAP moves quickly to divorce and establish a future with the new partner.

 

It IS rare. The other 97 percent? cake eaters. Be forewarned. They have a million excuses why they can't divorce now, six months from now, three years from now....excuse, excuse, excuse.....and you are still kept secret.

 

not good.

[MissBee]

I haven't waited for anyone to divorce personally, but I can respond to this stated intentions and waiting thing.

 

Be watchful and keep your eyes and ears open for consistent action towards that plan. Your MM isn't in the process of a divorce right now from your other thread, he's in the process of making it work/seeing if he wants to divorce. That's kind of a different thing than a clean cut, he's already filed, now you're just waiting for the logistics to be sorted out kind of thing. His process to even finally divorce could be long or short, could be back and forth or swift...but it's up to you to know how long you want to wait and to also be conscious of the difference between something taking a while logistically, but this person is doing everything they can, versus someone dragging their feet and taking their own sweet time and not really knowing what's going on but keeping you tethered to a "soon."

 

Think about if you were dating a single guy who said he was committed to you but had to make it work with his old gf first and what your response/tolerance level for that would be. I'd respond in the same way. Be very very hands off and apply some cynicism to it. I am not saying he won't divorce, he very well may, but you have to protect your heart and sanity by allowing enough distance where you're not waiting on him to fix his marriage or not only for you to be on the other side of him saying "Sorry...it's fixed. Bye" Divorcing and working on a marriage are very different....in your case he says he's doing the latter, so that alone should clue you in on how to proceed cautiously.

Edited May 12, 2013 by MissBee

[thefooloftheyear]

according to the infidelity gurus....psychologists and counselors who have counseled thousands of couples...the stats are are a dismal 3 out of 100 who have left a marriage dead in the water and married an AP.

 

It is characterized by .....happiness. All friendsandfamily are supportive; the AP is introduced and embraced by all. The MAP moves quickly to divorce and establish a future with the new partner.

 

It IS rare. The other 97 percent? cake eaters. Be forewarned. They have a million excuses why they can't divorce now, six months from now, three years from now....excuse, excuse, excuse.....and you are still kept secret.

 

not good.

 

Its rare, Id admit that..But I wonder how many were excluded from the number because even though they wound up with the AP they didnt actually get married...

 

As for a divorce and its duration, I look at it this way. For the sake of this argument, lets assume for a minute there wasnt some devastating reason for an immediate divorce...It was just a "parting of ways"..The ones with no money and the ones with a ton of money generally can divorce easier/quicker. For the vast majority of people in between its a lot tougher and the time required varies so much on so many issues that its impossible to come up with a general consensus.

 

A guy I know who is very wealthy left his marriage for the AP and did it in two months from the time the affair started. When I talked to him about it, he just caved in to all her lawyers demands because frankly even with that he had enough to live comfortably for the nect 10 AP's. He just didnt care. That kind of money tends to resolve these problems.

 

Some A have happy endings and there are some that post on this forum. Its NOT just a fairy tale. You can be the exception. But weigh all of the options and decide what your threshold is. If you were patient and the AP couldnt pull the trigger, then decide and move on or hang in therre if you believe in him.

 

I wish you well

 

TFY

[cocorico]

 

of those who have been with MM why have said they are asking for a divorce from his wife, how long did it take for that to actually happen? How long did it take before they were at least separated and living separate lives? At what point is that person's commitment to divorcing reliable?

 

I could give many different answers to these questions, and they would all be correct (as far as I can recall with accuracy, as it's been several years now), depending on what particular points you measure between.

 

* We decided, a few years into the A, that we wanted to be together full-time. At that point we started to explore different scenarios which could lead to that.

* We looked into various options before deciding that getting M was the way to go. Which required that he D.

* Because of the trauma his kids suffered during a previous separation, we were both focused on making sure that this one was handled much better. So he needed to speak to his kids about the prospect of a split. Once the kids were informed, and on-board, he could proceed with making plans for the split.

* When certain things were in place, he told the BW of his intentions to move out and to D, once he had found a suitable place for him and the kids to live.

* When he found a suitable place, he and the kids moved out.

* The D was finalised about a year later.

 

All situations are different. Some people have more complicated Ds which require longer to sort out - in our case, finances had been separated during the previous separation and remained separate. The kids were teens, wanted the courts to agree to shared custody so no child support needed to change hands, although de facto they lived with is. But even so it took a year to finalise.

 

As to when they were leading separate lives, well, pretty much all along. At what point the BW accepted that the M was over - only once we had been M for a while, and she realised he was not going to regret it and rush back into her arms.

 

All I can really advise is that if you feel comfortable with progress being made, then consider the commitment to D "reliable". But if you detect stalling, or vacillation, or ambivalence, or if you find progress unacceptably glacial, then you should review whether the R right now is giving you what you need from it. Tomorrow may never come, so it's important that your R - any R - is giving you what you need *today*.

[carhill]

The thread made me wonder a more general question: of those who have been with MM why have said they are asking for a divorce from his wife, how long did it take for that to actually happen? How long did it take before they were at least separated and living separate lives?

 

From the time of first meeting OW, there was a period of about a year when MC occurred; bought house for exW at end of that period. Filed for divorce about six months after, subsequent to executing pre-divorce financial plan. Divorce took about 18 months, though could have been as brief as six months (Cali cooling off period). So, from first meeting to legal dissolution was, in total, about three years.

[SoleMate]

I know it's not the norm, I know most don't leave. I just think it's a larger number than one in a million.

Absolutely, it is more than 0.0001% (one in 1 million). Hard statistics are more or less impossible to come by. I would buy a 3% rate (suggested above) as a plausible estimate.

 

I also am quite certain that the rate of OW "success" in an A is << 25%. It's less than the rate that would be acceptable in most happiness-risking gambles, such as say, selling your house and moving to a new job in another state, where there was < 25% chance of being employed a year later.

 

There definitely are MM-behavioral factors that will predict higher chance of success for an OW/MM A becoming a permanent, 1:1 acknowledged and faithful relationship without concealment:

 

* No lying

* Quick decision (1 month or less)

* First-time affair

* Knowledge of and acceptance by his family and friends

* No kids

* Supportive adult kids

* BW institutionalized for severe mental illness or substance abuse

* Transparency

* No irrationality (like MM agreeing to divorce "if she will let him go with a clean and easy break")

* No fog

* No red flags

* No time for OW to stew about whether things are moving forward or not

* MM takes tangible action unprompted by OW

 

etc.

[cocorico]

Absolutely, it is more than 0.0001% (one in 1 million). Hard statistics are more or less impossible to come by. I would buy a 3% rate (suggested above) as a plausible estimate.

 

I also am quite certain that the rate of OW "success" in an A is << 25%. It's less than the rate that would be acceptable in most happiness-risking gambles, such as say, selling your house and moving to a new job in another state, where there was < 25% chance of being employed a year later.

 

There definitely are MM-behavioral factors that will predict higher chance of success for an OW/MM A becoming a permanent, 1:1 acknowledged and faithful relationship without concealment:

 

* No lying

* Quick decision (1 month or less)

* First-time affair

* Knowledge of and acceptance by his family and friends

* No kids

* Supportive adult kids

* BW institutionalized for severe mental illness or substance abuse

* Transparency

* No irrationality (like MM agreeing to divorce "if she will let him go with a clean and easy break")

* No fog

* No red flags

* No time for OW to stew about whether things are moving forward or not

* MM takes tangible action unprompted by OW

 

etc.

 

I disagree with the "quick decision" *unless* it is a classic "Exit A" where the MM decided long back that he wanted out, and had already checked out emotionally and was simply waiting for the getaway car.

 

In any other case, I think a prematurely made "decision", or a choice made in haste, under pressure , is unlikely to be sustainable.

[Got it]

My background is here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/392551-mm-plans-divorce#post4876280

 

The thread made me wonder a more general question: of those who have been with MM why have said they are asking for a divorce from his wife, how long did it take for that to actually happen? How long did it take before they were at least separated and living separate lives? At what point is that person's commitment to divorcing reliable? Of course generally, it's reliable when it happens, but we rely on other people's stated intentions all the time (ironically like in marriage) so why can't that work for stated intention to divorce as well?

 

Well first off every state and country are different so the waiting periods may be shorter and longer just based on that.

 

For us it was:

 

A few weeks after our deadline for him to separate when DDay hit. I walked away a few days after dday when he didn't immediate leave and told him to focus on things at home and make his decision.

 

He separated a few months later and moved out.

 

They were separated a year and a half before divorce was finalized. Our state requires a year's separation.

 

We were together for a year and some change. A month or so in we came up with a year timeline prior to separation/divorce.

[AHoleLotOfCrazy]

It took only a few months for him to leave. I think in total about 4 months. The divorce took 2 years but that was only due to legal issues. BUT it has been far from a "fairytale" or happy ending.

[HKiddo]

Thank you all for your responses. This has been incredibly informative. I suppose the moral of the story is that it is rare, and every situation is different.

 

Because the other thread has been locked (http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/392551-mm-plans-divorce), I thought I'd update for anyone interested. We will have had LC for two weeks tomorrow. We had done it so he could sort out his situation. I believe he was already checked out from the M at the time we met. I know it's impossible, but to any extent possible, I wanted to make sure that he would get the D regardless of the relationship with me. Yesterday he sent me an email update. He is in the process of moving out and will be done by the end of next week. He says that he is filing for divorce next month.

 

And in answer to anyone who had asked in the other thread whether I had direct contact with his friends, I have spoken to his two best friends directly regarding this. I believe he is sincere in his feelings for me. MM and I both regret what has happened but it doesn't excuse it, and we clearly continued for three months. This is a guilt we will have to live with and something I will carry with me regardless of whether he and I end up together. I don't agree with those who say you don't care less for the W. We all experience cognitive dissonance; it's possible to believe in certain morals and act in a way that is not aligned with those principles.

 

Regardless of what the outcome is, this was a difficult process for everyone. I think much of the support on this forum is very good. It's not easy to be both critical about the ethical and pragmatic issues that arise in these situations. In the emotional throes of this experience, I think forums like this are invaluable. So, again, for everyone who had thoughtful responses to my posts and questions, thank you.

Edited May 15, 2013 by HKiddo
Clarity, additional information.

[Got it]

The average divorce takes nine months from when filed IF there is no need to debate belongings/finances/custody. The average length WITH those debates is one year. If it takes longer that's because SOMEONE is dragging their feet.

 

From the FIRST day you file, if BOTH parties agree you can be legally separated within ONE month. At that time you are safe to move and start a new relationship without putting property in jeopardy because the court has proof of termination of relationship and that belongings will be in dispute.

 

Knowing this, when a married person keeps making excuses that lasts months and years, rest assured: they are lying.

 

Of course this varies by state. Some require a separation of a year, a few states, NC being one, is pushing a two year separation. If there is any area contested, the process can be longer as most commonly one goes through mediation and then to court.

 

It also depends on the courts in the area you are in, my current county is greatly backed up and for custody hearings it is showing to be a minimum of 6 months out before you can even get in front of the judge for the first time, some are going 12 months.

[So happy together]

Might I suggest Reno?

[cocorico]

Of course this varies by state.

 

... And by country. In the UK, "quick" Ds are allowed on two grounds only (adultery - only the BS can file on these grounds; the WS cannot file on the grounds of their own infidelity; and unreasonable behaviour).

 

Other that, you can file after a separation of two years. If the D is uncontested, or after a separation of five years, if contested.

 

So if a WS wants to D the BS, and the BS does not want to D, it can take up to five years (or more - but the D can be filed after five) unless the WS files on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour.

[Got it]

... And by country. In the UK, "quick" Ds are allowed on two grounds only (adultery - only the BS can file on these grounds; the WS cannot file on the grounds of their own infidelity; and unreasonable behaviour).

 

Other that, you can file after a separation of two years. If the D is uncontested, or after a separation of five years, if contested.

 

So if a WS wants to D the BS, and the BS does not want to D, it can take up to five years (or more - but the D can be filed after five) unless the WS files on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour.

 

My apologies, yet another American assumption that the world operates with our laws!

[carhill]

Relevant to my prior anecdote but not to my interactions with OW/MW from it, her D took nearly seven years to resolve, though mainly because of child issues and their businesses. I mention it as relevant to topic because she revealed she had become involved with a MM shortly before she and her H separated, so both she and MM were going through D's whilst dating, though his was final more quickly. They've now been together for about 11 years and have lived together roughly since she and I ended our association. TBH, whether affair-related or not, I know of no one personally in my social/business circle who got a 'quick' D. They all took a year or more, from what people have shared.

[Goodbye]

Of course this varies by state. Some require a separation of a year, a few states, NC being one, is pushing a two year separation. If there is any area contested, the process can be longer as most commonly one goes through mediation and then to court.

 

It also depends on the courts in the area you are in, my current county is greatly backed up and for custody hearings it is showing to be a minimum of 6 months out before you can even get in front of the judge for the first time, some are going 12 months.

 

 

A 2 year required separation??? Wow. That is crazy. I was annoyed with my states 3 month "cooling off" period after papers are served, lol.

[carhill]

As alluded to by another poster (Reno = quick divorce), a MM, or any other spouse, could easily check into residency/process requirements of a neighboring or distant jurisdiction to more quickly effect a divorce. Such legal strategies are used all the time. Where there's a will, there's a cooperative courthouse.

[Got it]

As alluded to by another poster (Reno = quick divorce), a MM, or any other spouse, could easily check into residency/process requirements of a neighboring or distant jurisdiction to more quickly effect a divorce. Such legal strategies are used all the time. Where there's a will, there's a cooperative courthouse.

 

Why? Most counties don't have major difference in time frames. If you are in a congested county then you are in a pretty congested area in general. I have never known anyone, in any divorce, "shop" counties/jurisdictions to get the fastest divorce possible. That is actually an odd idea to me and would be a red flag. In all cases I have known, you file in the county you live in. I believe in my state that is a requirement. If many states require residency in the county filed so with this idea you have to up and move to do that. CA, for example, must have lived 3 months in the county filed.

 

And really what is the point or big deal? I didn't rush through my divorce, we didn't need to. There were never any major pending decisions, we waited the state mandated time period and filed 4ish months later, both went to the courthouse together and a late lunch afterwards.

 

I think if one is looking for "red" flags on whether someone is dragging their feet there are plethora of other daily examples that could include what county they file in but I don't think that one ranks high up there.