Is There No Effective Deterrent to Cheating...?

[USMCHokie]

Do people cheat so freely because there's no effective deterrent or way to hold them accountable? There are lots of ways to deter certain actions. People can be deterred by their moral compass, e.g., this is wrong and compromises my integrity, so I won't do it. People can be deterred by the concern of potential harm to others, e.g., if I throw this brick at his head, he might get hurt. Also, one can be deterred by the concern of harm to themselves, e.g., I'm not going to bet my life savings on black because I might lose it all. Others are deterred by difficulty of execution, e.g., running a marathon is too hard, so I'm not going to do it. Another deterrent is the criminal justice system, e.g., I'm not going to murder this person because I don't want to go to jail.

 

Cheaters obviously have little concern for their moral compass or the potential harm caused to others, so should there be a better deterrent to cheating in place? How do we hold cheaters accountable?

 

If you have cheated before, what would have deterred you from doing so? Would anything short of capital punishment have made you think twice about cheating?

[Toddbt12y1]

Cheaters are very selfish people. They all offer the usual reasons for cheating; I.e. "didn't feel loved." "Lonely." "Poor to no sex life." The list goes on. These are mere excuses, as there is always better ways than to cheat on someone. Did they communicate how they've felt? Most do not. Did they break-up(or divorce )? No, usually they don't want to. Maybe do impart with fear of ultimate loneliness or familiarity.

 

Although, they fulfill their own prophecy of loneliness if caught.

 

If you ask one what would have deterred; simple. If any of these "needs" where fulfilled...that would have deterred them. Perhaps looks. Perhaps timing. It's excuses. Excuses do not ultimately deter..thus, it is worthless to ask them what would have deterred them.

 

Nothing would have. When you have other options; you choose the worst option first, you didn't think nor care about being deterred. That's just it. They didn't "care." Cheating is selfishness. Not done for love or need(love, real love, doesn't seek to hurt others for your own personal gain). It is purely want, a selfish desire.

 

Cheaters are ultimate justifiers. They use anything to blindly(if so) moralize their actions. After all, who could willingly live with themselves knowing the hurt(it potential hurt), they have(or will) cause someone that loves them. Unless they lack empathy totally(social path). They must give excuse after excuse to moralize themselves. It's false justification.

 

Remember(this is true); it is one thing to slip-up and end up doing something bad(hurt someone); another thing to willingly do something to harm another, because other options you didn't care to follow. This eliminates the "mistake" quality...the live and learn quality, that those who cheat use...or sympathetic people use to describe a wicked thing like cheating.

 

No one would call a serial killer a misguided person. Why would I then be so lenient as to call what someone willingly did a "mistake?" I would feel bad. We already let enough people get away with doing damaging things to others. Very lightly punishing them.

 

I do not believe a cheater(serial) should be executed. Nor spend their lives in prison. Maybe a fine. Maybe a day in prison. I justify this; cheating assaults the conscious of the one being cheated on; it effects their world and life. Costs some money in therapy. Divorce costs money. Trauma to children and self. It is mental-abuse. Those who abuse people should be punished justly. This doesn't happen.

 

We in today's world, rarely even shame those who wrong others. We accept what they've done by either doing or saying nothing, or, by being sympathetic to those who cheat. Shouldn't sympathy be shown to the person being hurt? We call ourselves moral people. More advanced than we once were. Yet...on obvious and simple things, we dangerously fail.

 

Best way to ultimately deter this, is to shame it. Not to breeze it by. Not to "mistake" it as a life lesson. To be adult boys and girls and rectify it with shame. We teach our children by our actions. If we justify it..so will they. This leads to more of the same: cheating.

 

With a fine and or imprisonment being the worst case scenario. Some cheaters(serial), do not care if a divorce or break-up happens. If they lose their kids(should be justice enough). They keep doing what they do. So nothing deters them...

 

This is my feel of it.

[salparadise]

I don't think this is an issue that can be summarized with broad, sweeping generalizations. Humans, like the vast majority of mammals, are not wired to be monogamous to begin with; it's an applied social/moral/ethical constraint that attempts to moderate biological predispositions. The Freudian psychological perspective characterizes this as id vs. superego. Individuals with stronger superegos are more likely to conform to societal norms. Kohlberg divides the stages of ethical/moral development into three main categories: pre-conventional (avoidance of punishment), conventional (social acceptance), and post-conventional (want to do what's right). So theoretically, a pre-conventional person would cheat if they believe they wouldn't get caught or were willing to accept the consequences, a conventional person would only cheat if they believed it was justified, and a post-conventional person would not cheat (assuming that they accept the imperative between monogamy and morality).

 

So the key is to select a mate that is at the post-conventional stage of moral development, and who believes that cheating is immoral. From the perspective of individuals already in a marriage, nurturing a healthy relationship and meeting each other's needs will greatly diminish the chance of a conventional person seeking fulfillment outside of the marriage. If you're married to a pre-conventional person, tell him Lorena Bobbitt is your heroine and keep a sharp knife beside the bed. I think alcohol and opportunity also figure into the equation, but only for those who predisposed toward cheating to begin with. Certain kinds of mental illness will create high motivation as well, but that's pretty obvious- even more so than ethical/moral development.

[Treasa]

Meh. I trust someone until they give me reason not to. I'm pretty observant. If I'm cheated on, I'm cheated on. Not the end of the world. But then I'm out of the relationship.

 

I can't control what others do. I can only control what I do.

[USMCHokie]

Meh. I trust someone until they give me reason not to. I'm pretty observant. If I'm cheated on, I'm cheated on. Not the end of the world. But then I'm out of the relationship.

 

I can't control what others do. I can only control what I do.

 

What if there were real effects of someone else cheating on you, and these effects significantly impacted your life?

 

Is it as easy as, "big gulps, eh...? Welp, seeya later!"

[tbf]

So the key is to select a mate that is at the post-conventional stage of moral development, and who believes that cheating is immoral.

It's probably worth cutting it off here and adding "Don't marry 'tards.".

[carhill]

I recall when Trimble (AtRoads) tracked an employee, ostensibly married, as well as ostensibly on the job, to the private residence of another female. Combine that kind of technology with surveillance and termination technology and you have an effective deterrent to cheating. People, even the most callous and uncaring, understand termination. The technology exists. Sure, it's illegal, but still not a problem. Fear can be a potent motivator.

[USMCHokie]

Best way to ultimately deter this, is to shame it. Not to breeze it by. Not to "mistake" it as a life lesson. To be adult boys and girls and rectify it with shame. We teach our children by our actions. If we justify it..so will they. This leads to more of the same: cheating.

 

But is shame alone enough? In the self-esteem era, people are taught to ignore what others think of them and to value themselves they way they see themselves. So if someone is misguided, cheats, and genuinely believes they are right, then no amount of shame will hold them accountable. If people cheat for instant (and even not-so-instant) gratification, then should the consequence of that be real tangible punishment rather than mere shame, which they can brush off?

 

Unless the shame were recognized by society in an actual meaningful way...for example, should society institute a registered "cheaters list" just like sex offenders or pedophiles must register, thus making it more difficult for them to obtain jobs, etc.?

[Emilia]

But is shame alone enough? In the self-esteem era, people are taught to ignore what others think of them and to value themselves they way they see themselves.

I believe in valuing yourself the way you see yourself and I don't agree that people are taught to ignore what others think. I think we are very much conditioned to take into account what others think of us, too much so.

Who says your values are superior to mine?

So if someone is misguided, cheats, and genuinely believes they are right, then no amount of shame will hold them accountable.

That's measured by your values though.

If people cheat for instant (and even not-so-instant) gratification, then should the consequence of that be real tangible punishment rather than mere shame, which they can brush off?

They will lose their romantic partner most like, maybe even their family.

Unless the shame were recognized by society in an actual meaningful way...for example, should society institute a registered "cheaters list" just like sex offenders or pedophiles must register, thus making it more difficult for them to obtain jobs, etc.?

Why? Others believe in polyamory or simply tolerate infidelity. I mean sure of course it's BS and it's for those with low self-esteem because they don't believe they deserve or could keep a partner's full attention but who says that they are wrong?

[Emilia]

People can be deterred by their moral compass, e.g., this is wrong and compromises my integrity, so I won't do it. People can be deterred by the concern of potential harm to others, e.g., if I throw this brick at his head, he might get hurt.

These are the only people I'm interested in. Integrity and empathy are key in my opinion.

[USMCHokie]

I believe in valuing yourself the way you see yourself and I don't agree that people are taught to ignore what others think. I think we are very much conditioned to take into account what others think of us, too much so.

Who says your values are superior to mine?

 

Good point. And who is to say someone else's values that dictate that cheating is ok are better than mine...?

 

They will lose their romantic partner most like, maybe even their family.

Do you think this is a fair sanction?

 

Why? Others believe in polyamory or simply tolerate infidelity. I mean sure of course it's BS and it's for those with low self-esteem because they don't believe they deserve or could keep a partner's full attention but who says that they are wrong?

Sure, there are plenty of beliefs out there that are readily accepted by individuals other societies (e.g., sex/marriage with very young underage girls, forced prostitution, etc.). However, Western societies have outlawed the practice of those beliefs. So who is to say Western civ is right? Are they right to not outlaw infidelity? Why do we have statutory rape and not statutory infidelity? Society dictates its values through its laws, so does infidelity have a place among those values?

[Emilia]

Good point. And who is to say someone else's values that dictate that cheating is ok are better than mine...?

No-one

Do you think this is a fair sanction?

In my eyes it is but maybe not in yours. I think it's impossible to create a sanction that's an equal deterrent for everyone. Usually it's peer pressure though when it comes to values.

Sure, there are plenty of beliefs out there that are readily accepted by individuals other societies (e.g., sex/marriage with very young underage girls, forced prostitution, etc.). However, Western societies have outlawed the practice of those beliefs. So who is to say Western civ is right? Are they right to not outlaw infidelity? Why do we have statutory rape and not statutory infidelity? Society dictates its values through its laws, so does infidelity have a place among those values?

Because what is illegal usually concerns the vulnerable (forced labour, forced prostitution, forced marriage) and/or underage (same as others plus statutory rape).

 

I think there is a very fine line to draw between protecting the vulnerable and having an overbearing government that tells you what to do at every aspect of your life. I think it is already bad enough how many people rely on a centralised authority to make decisions for them and this is one reason why those of us that live in a secular society prefer it this way: we only want to tolerate control that's absolutely necessary for a live and let live way of life.

[USMCHokie]

In my eyes it is but maybe not in yours. I think it's impossible to create a sanction that's an equal deterrent for everyone. Usually it's peer pressure though when it comes to values.

 

I believe it is extremely fair and the least that can be done to right a wrong. Unfortunately, the government does not apply that sanction to serve as equal deterrent for everyone.

 

Because what is illegal usually concerns the vulnerable (forced labour, forced prostitution, forced marriage) and/or underage (same as others plus statutory rape).

 

My point was that it's not illegal everywhere...or at least it's more accepted in other societies...

 

I think there is a very fine line to draw between protecting the vulnerable and having an overbearing government that tells you what to do at every aspect of your life. I think it is already bad enough how many people rely on a centralised authority to make decisions for them and this is one reason why those of us that live in a secular society prefer it this way: we only want to tolerate control that's absolutely necessary for a live and let live way of life.

 

What about when the government protects the party that does the wrongdoing?

[Emilia]

I believe it is extremely fair and the least that can be done to right a wrong. Unfortunately, the government does not apply that sanction to serve as equal deterrent for everyone.

I just don't think it should be punished in a formal way

My point was that it's not illegal everywhere...or at least it's more accepted in other societies...

Well rape is not accepted as crime in every country in the world and in others there are lots of mitigating circumstances when it comes to murder/manslaughter. I narrow it down to the country I live in for that reason. I picked the country I live in for a reason.

What about when the government protects the party that does the wrongdoing?

I presume you mean divorce. Unfortunately you are both responsible for the way your relationship develops from dating to marriage and eventual divorce.

[USMCHokie]

I just don't think it should be punished in a formal way

 

And all I'm offering here is that infidelity be punished in a formal way, as formal sanctions tend to serve as effective deterrents from misconduct, much like prison sentences for crimes.

 

I presume you mean divorce. Unfortunately you are both responsible for the way your relationship develops from dating to marriage and eventual divorce.

 

You presume correctly. Is it in the interest of justice that the state often grants the cheating wife custody of children, half the marital assets, and alimony for her indiscretions? If the husband was cheating, that'd be justifiable compensation, but if she were cheating, should the husband be entitled to punitive damages (e.g., custody of children, alimony from the cheating wife, seizure of the wife's half of the marital assets)?

 

Why does society award infidelity?

[Emilia]

And all I'm offering here is that infidelity be punished in a formal way, as formal sanctions tend to serve as effective deterrents from misconduct, much like prison sentences for crimes.

I don't believe in controlling people and I have been putting a lot of work into getting rid of my codependent and other controlling tendencies. It's a personal thing I suppose but it's not something I believe in.

Is it in the interest of justice that the state often grants the cheating wife custody of children, half the marital assets, and alimony for her indiscretions? If the husband was cheating, that'd be justifiable compensation, but if she were cheating, should the husband be entitled to punitive damages (e.g., custody of children, alimony from the cheating wife, seizure of the wife's half of the marital assets)?

 

Why does society award infidelity?

You would have to start with the statistics on how many men apply for full custody and how many are happy for their wives to have that instead.

You are assuming that both parties want the same thing and that judges favour women. I'm pretty sure you know more mothers apply for primary custody than fathers. I'm assuming this is taken into account before the reason of the divorce is.

 

Men are also more likely to divorce on the grounds of infidelity than women are (I heard this from private investigators).

[Woggle]

The best solution is for people who are cheated on to have a zero tolerance policy and for the courts to favor betrayed spouses.

[USMCHokie]

You would have to start with the statistics on how many men apply for full custody and how many are happy for their wives to have that instead.

You are assuming that both parties want the same thing and that judges favour women. I'm pretty sure you know more mothers apply for primary custody than fathers. I'm assuming this is taken into account before the reason of the divorce is.

 

I only approach this issue from a layman's perspective. I don't know much about divorce law or the statistics behind divorce, but from anecdote, you very rarely hear about a woman who gets dumped on the street without a dime or child after she cheated on her spouse. However, you certainly hear and see more instances of men having to lose the kids, lose the house, and pay alimony and excessive child support to her cheating wife.

 

Men are also more likely to divorce on the grounds of infidelity than women are (I heard this from private investigators).

 

Perhaps because women have more to lose when a divorce comes...but as women have found that place in the workforce alongside men, this dependence on the marriage becomes less of an issue.

 

And I'm sure many men put their heads between their legs and take the financial rape that often happens with divorce.

[Emilia]

I only approach this issue from a layman's perspective. I don't know much about divorce law or the statistics behind divorce, but from anecdote, you very rarely hear about a woman who gets dumped on the street without a dime or child after she cheated on her spouse. However, you certainly hear and see more instances of men having to lose the kids, lose the house, and pay alimony and excessive child support to her cheating wife.

Same about layman's perspective but this issue has been debated on LS several times (and in real life too in my case amongst friends) and the reason for the above is that men don't want to look after their kids full time. It is also true for the men I know. We have a female poster here who pays alimony to her cheating husband who had kids from his previous marriage. She earned more than him, he was younger than her and picked up women on craigslist while refusing to sleep with her. Of course one example doesn't make a rule. It is about custody though.

Perhaps because women have more to lose when a divorce comes...but as women have found that place in the workforce alongside men, this dependence on the marriage becomes less of an issue.

Perhaps. I think women are usually more passive. They are the ones that are happy to stay at home on maternity leave after all. How many men do you know who would do this? It's all part of the same thing, I think.

And I'm sure many men put their heads between their legs and take the financial rape that often happens with divorce.

Because they don't want their own kids full time

 

In the Uk at least, women are less well off financially and remain so for longer than men - except for wealthy women.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Emilia

[Emilia]

The best solution is for people who are cheated on to have a zero tolerance policy and for the courts to favor betrayed spouses.

Why? Is there a law against cheating?

[USMCHokie]

Same about layman's perspective but this issue has been debated on LS several times (and in real life too in my case amongst friends) and the reason for the above is that men don't want to look after their kids full time. It is also true for the men I know. We have a female poster here who pays alimony to her cheating husband who had kids from his previous marriage. She earned more than him, he was younger than her and picked up women on craigslist while refusing to sleep with her. Of course one example doesn't make a rule. It is about custody though.

 

I find this as despicable and would throw that dude in jail just the same. Or off a cliff. Whichever happened to be closer.

 

Perhaps. I think women are usually more passive. They are the ones that are happy to stay at home on maternity leave after all. How many men do you know who would do this? It's all part of the same thing, I think.

 

Because they don't want their own kids full time

 

In the Uk at least, women are less well off financially and remain so for longer than men - except for wealthy women.

 

Yea, perhaps you're right, I had not considered the percentage of men who actually want to take care of their kids after a divorce.

[Woggle]

Why? Is there a law against cheating?

 

Because marriage is legally a contract and cheating should be considered a breach of that contract.

[Emilia]

Because marriage is legally a contract and cheating should be considered a breach of that contract.

But what if the spouse that got cheated on doesn't want a divorce? Do you only punish those that get caught and where the spouse wants a divorce?

[Emilia]

I find this as despicable and would throw that dude in jail just the same. Or off a cliff. Whichever happened to be closer.

Regardless, do you think it would be good to take even this responsibility away from people? Not being fully responsible for your partner choices because the law does it for you? What kind of weaklings would that breed?

[USMCHokie]

But what if the spouse that got cheated on doesn't want a divorce? Do you only punish those that get caught and where the spouse wants a divorce?

 

Well, in any civil or criminal action, the aggrieved party and the state, respectively, have discretion as to whether they wish to proceed with that action. But as long as the tool is available to punish, it's up to the individual to use that tool.

 

Regardless, do you think it would be good to take even this responsibility away from people? Not being fully responsible for your partner choices because the law does it for you? What kind of weaklings would that breed?

 

Hmmm, this is a good point of holding the aggrieved party accountable for their own choices. However, I don't think society does a good enough job of shaming the unsavory to dissuade people from choosing them as partners.