Pharmekia

[pureinheart]

This is a perplexing issue concerning the Bible to me. I don't really know what it means.

 

I've done various studies on it only to stop due to lack of understanding. I understand that street drugs fit the description to a tee, although do question marijuana.

 

What the world calls "legal" like alochol, I find to fit the description of pharmekia, but this could be wrong. I just don't know.

 

What do you think, what is your take on what the Bible means concerning "pharmekia"?

[TaraMaiden]

Could you supply a bit more reference, like verse, relevance, that kind of thing?

[TaraMaiden]

basically, as far as I am aware, and from what I remember, it's any drug or substance (imbibed, ingested injected or inhaled) which is capable of affecting the thought process; it's mind-control. That's why it is also covered by witchcraft.

 

The original word is Greek.

 

(The Buddha's 5th precept also cautions against use of such substances, although prescriptive medicine for those afflicted by mental conditions which need treatment or control, is permitted....)

[todreaminblue]

I think it comes down to implementation, god gave plants for a reason ...some of medicinal......some for eating....some i have no idea why they exist......when those plants or substances are used to negatively impact on life itself that is when its not gods work......medical intervention requires the use of life saving drugs and or treatments......i dont believe its sorcery or demonish to use medical intervention or use holistic approaches to treat illness or lack of energy because it has a positive outcome with life...it enhances life or prolongs life by treating disease or ailment

 

 

drugs alcohol have an extreme opposite reaction...they alter lives in a a negative and dangerous way....including pot.....they are also illegal and gods word is to follow laws given by the justice systems of the world.........deb

[TaraMaiden]

basically, as far as I am aware, and from what I remember, it's any drug or substance (imbibed, ingested injected or inhaled) which is capable of affecting the thought process; it's mind-control. That's why it is also covered by witchcraft.

 

The original word is Greek.

 

(The Buddha's 5th precept also cautions against use of such substances, although prescriptive medicine for those afflicted by mental conditions which need treatment or management, is permitted....)

 

'management' is a better word than 'control'.....

[TaraMaiden]

And with respect, you mean 'Pharmakeia', not 'pharmekia'

 

[pureinheart]

Could you supply a bit more reference, like verse, relevance, that kind of thing?

 

I'm looking for the Scripture right now (it used the actual word)- have seen it before- I know I have, but of course can't find it now.

 

Pharmekia is where we got the English term "pharmacutical" ...this is why I'm concerned, but always wanted to know anyway.

[pureinheart]

And with respect, you mean 'Pharmakeia', not 'pharmekia'

 

 

Thanks- I'll let my excuse be taking care of three little kids right now- hey gotta have an excuse:D:o

 

I know, one should not post and care for little ones:laugh:

[TaraMaiden]

I'm looking for the Scripture right now (it used the actual word)- have seen it before- I know I have, but of course can't find it now.

 

Pharmekia is where we got the English term "pharmacutical" ...this is why I'm concerned, but always wanted to know anyway.

Pharmacist, pharmaceutical and pharmacy all have the same word origin...

 

Why 'concerned'....?

 

Simply because these words came from the same Greek origin, doesn't mean anything untoward or sinister.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tie the little ones up together, and suspend them from the ceiling fan.

it will keep them amused for hours.....

[pureinheart]

Could you supply a bit more reference, like verse, relevance, that kind of thing?

 

This is the best I could find, although I know I've seen the the actual word...

 

Pharmakeia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

I want to know what the Bible considers uncool- I know that certain drugs can open the door to witchcraft, although most of these drugs have been and some still used in medical practice and do have medical purposes.

 

In another post you metioned how your faith feels/teaches concerning this- I am completely interested in what other faiths teach because it will give a rounded view.

 

I know there is one faith here in the US in which they have a mixture of various drugs and are allowed to use them in order to practice their faith...I don't agree with accessing anything via drugs, but wanted to mention it.

[M30USA]

Dr. J Vernon McGee wrote in his commentary on the book of Revelation that there will be an increase in drug use (both legal and illegal) during the end times. The word is PHARMAKEIA in Greek. It's funny but most English versions translate it into strange words like "sorcery" and such. This loses the meaning, according to McGee. It's more similar to any mind or body altering medications. This is illustrated by the fact that, as a previous poster said, it so closesly resembles the modern word "pharmacy".

Edited May 12, 2013 by M30USA

[pureinheart]

Pharmacist, pharmaceutical and pharmacy all have the same word origin...

 

Why 'concerned'....?

 

Simply because these words came from the same Greek origin, doesn't mean anything untoward or sinister.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tie the little ones up together, and suspend them from the ceiling fan.

it will keep them amused for hours.....

 

I'm concerned because of curiosity and want to put this issue to rest in my mind. I don't abuse drugs anymore.

 

Many here in the US take a ton of legal and illegal drugs. You know, I am concerned about anti-depressants, but didn't communicate them because they are so acceptable here- but the real issue is the Bible.

 

Turning the ceiling fan on now:lmao::lmao::lmao:

[TaraMaiden]

I want to know what the Bible considers uncool- I know that certain drugs can open the door to witchcraft, although most of these drugs have been and some still used in medical practice and do have medical purposes.

 

In another post you metioned how your faith feels/teaches concerning this- I am completely interested in what other faiths teach because it will give a rounded view.

 

I know there is one faith here in the US in which they have a mixture of various drugs and are allowed to use them in order to practice their faith...I don't agree with accessing anything via drugs, but wanted to mention it.

 

I think the old adage that some things can be 'good servants but bad masters' is appropriate here...

 

The Buddha taught that primarily, we all have choices - so there are instructions and recommendations, but no direct commands...It's voluntary, not compulsory...

 

His precepts are many in number, and the vast majority are adhered to by ordained (monks, nuns....) but the first 5 (on feast days we include the further 3 making 8) are those which all lay people take note of...

 

The 5th precept states that "I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness."

 

This is taken to mean any substance which phukks with your thinking.

 

Now, marijuana is a known natural drug, which is known to relieve and improve the symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis. It is made available, under prescription, in some quarters for this treatment.

However, as a recreational drug, it's illegal.

 

So applied correctly and under medical direction and supervision, many drugs are beneficial and effective.

but abused, and taken the wrong way, they can be extremely detrimental to your well-being.

 

The word Pharmakeia covers a multitude of sins - and virtues, in this case.

[pureinheart]

Dr. J Vernon McGee wrote in his commentary on the book of Revelation that there will be an increase in drug use (both legal and illegal) during the end times. The word is PHARMAKEIA in Greek. It's funny but most English versions translate it into strange words like "sorcery" and such. This loses the meaning, according to McGee. It's more similar to any mind or body altering medications. This is illustrated by the fact that, as a previous poster said, it so closesly resembles the modern word "pharmacy".

 

Knowing this might sound odd, although ever since my hysterectomy 26yrs ago, anything can alter my mind due to sensitivity. Where one person can take any given med and take the full dosage, I am only able to take but a grain and be wacked out, well, not wacked out, but can feel it...alcohol for instance, one sip and I can feel the effect of intoxication. It's not my imagination either.

 

Vitamins can alter my mind, or have a weird effect.

[TaraMaiden]

...This is illustrated by the fact that, as a previous poster said, it so closesly resembles the modern word "pharmacy".

 

At the risk of being pedantic, that's not what I said.

I said that pharmacy, pharmaceutical and pharmacist are all words which are derived from the Greek original root, 'pharmakeia'.

 

Pharmakeia doesn't resemble them; Pharmakeia is their origin.

 

(It's like saying your dad looks like you.

That's ridiculous. You - look like your dad. He was here first. )

[pureinheart]

I think the old adage that some things can be 'good servants but bad masters' is appropriate here...

 

The Buddha taught that primarily, we all have choices - so there are instructions and recommendations, but no direct commands...It's voluntary, not compulsory...

 

His precepts are many in number, and the vast majority are adhered to by ordained (monks, nuns....) but the first 5 (on feast days we include the further 3 making 8) are those which all lay people take note of...

 

The 5th precept states that "I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness."

 

This is taken to mean any substance which phukks with your thinking.

 

Now, marijuana is a known natural drug, which is known to relieve and improve the symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis. It is made available, under prescription, in some quarters for this treatment.

However, as a recreational drug, it's illegal.

 

So applied correctly and under medical direction and supervision, many drugs are beneficial and effective.

but abused, and taken the wrong way, they can be extremely detrimental to your well-being.

 

The word Pharmakeia covers a multitude of sins - and virtues, in this case.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

 

Bold- is way cool, and it wouldn't hurt me to read that a few more times, also retain the link:D

 

Ok- as example, abuse is the key- abuse of any sort, under the particular chemical- abusing the drug itself by "over medicating" or abusing another under it's effects whether over medicating (which is also abuse of oneself) or under the prescribed dosage.

 

I have many questions running through my mind right now. One of which was an exbf taking Prozac. He was quite abusive and had this crazy look in his eyes. He could have taken more than prescribed or he might have been mixing meds.

 

Another point of concern is, I can be high without being "high" as we do have chemicals in the brain that do produce this. I can also be high in the sense of chemicals such as periodically I get panic attacks...bad...the only thing that helps (because it actually hurts my heart when this happens) is a quarter or half of a 5mg Valium. I do feel the effects of the Valium. I would assume this does alter my mind. There is also physical pain from a lot of different sources and when it's real bad I take half or less of a low end pain med which is an opiate. This had me scared because if the Bible says (or any other faith) that this opens the door to witchcraft then I'd be screwed because the pain can run from a 7 to a 9 at times (pain scale from 1-10).

 

Opiates do alter the mind and I got really scared before and after surgery because the pain was so intense. During taking so many pain meds I didn't notice the effect (they were 750 Norco) until afterwards. My thinking was affected...but what could I do?

 

With this, thinking of just about everyone I know being on much stronger meds than opiates or Norco (which I know is an opiate too). I know many on the different forms of oxy's...but what if they need them, like my neighbor going through chemo right now.

 

Tara, so many concerns about all sorts of meds and I want to have the right perspective...thank you love:love:

[pureinheart]

I think it comes down to implementation, god gave plants for a reason ...some of medicinal......some for eating....some i have no idea why they exist......when those plants or substances are used to negatively impact on life itself that is when its not gods work......medical intervention requires the use of life saving drugs and or treatments......i dont believe its sorcery or demonish to use medical intervention or use holistic approaches to treat illness or lack of energy because it has a positive outcome with life...it enhances life or prolongs life by treating disease or ailment

 

 

drugs alcohol have an extreme opposite reaction...they alter lives in a a negative and dangerous way....including pot.....they are also illegal and gods word is to follow laws given by the justice systems of the world.........deb

 

Luke was a doctor:). I do so believe that the Lord uses the medical community. When God wants us home, He'll take us no matter what- I sooooo agree.

 

With all legal and illegal I have seen psychosis first hand, and it was scary to witness it. I don't see much difference concerning "street" drugs and pharma in this sense- I do see the difference however with street drugs, God knows what junk is in that stuff. This includes what is used in the cultivation practices of marijuana.

 

Deb- I know people and talk to those in he medical field...you should see how radical people can get when the doctor turns them down for pain meds...scary. I think the term is "pain seekers".

 

I think we have a belief in this country, that if it comes from a doc, it's ok...oh and then before posting this thread, was trying to find some stuff on pharmekeia and got confused all over again because one site was talking about drug trafficing and went further to talk of "commerce" and stuff which brought me to pharmacuticals being "sold" also- so thought I'd not read all the internet has to offer and see what you guys thought.

 

Deb, I've tried to resolve this matter for many years in my mind...no ulterior motive as to justify my own drug use from back in the day...but to just understand...oh brother, some things take forever for me to get:eek:

[pureinheart]

Ok, think I might have it-

 

Tara- carelessness

 

Deb- medicinal

 

M30- mind altering

 

This gives much to off of...now recreational, which leads to Jesus being asked (or told) by his mother to turn the water into wine (His first miracle) at the wedding party when they ran out. Supposing the question would be, was this "wine" as we most know wine (fermented).

 

My personal belief is that it was fermented...it was a wedding. Also believe the term grape juice would have been used had it not been fermented wine...which this would fall into play:

 

Truth Or Tradition - What does the Bible [God] say about drugs [pharmakeia] / drinking alcohol?

 

Drugs used to alter one’s mental state and thus “escape reality” do the same thing that excess alcohol does, that is, they render a person “out of control” of his mind. As with alcohol, the individual who is “high” on drugs is in no position to fulfill the command to “be alert and self-controlled.” Many drugs are hallucinogenic, and a hallucination is “a false notion, belief, or impression; illusion; or delusion.” In the Bible, the Greek word for “truth” means “reality.” Satan’s goal is to get people to act upon a false reality.

 

 

 

Thinking my point of confusion was "the escape from reality" part. I don't need anything to do this. Seeing there is a big difference between psychological escape (which I'm not saying is ok) to using substances. Ok.

 

As usual, you guys are awesome!

Edited May 13, 2013 by pureinheart

[pie2]

I'd never heard this term before. Reading through the Wiki site, it seems like biblically, the term is always used in reference to something evil (witchcraft or sorcery)?

 

I agree that there is an over-reliance on medication in the US. So many people want a cure for, or want to escape what I consider to be normal pain and suffering (like bereavement, the normal down-in-the-dumps day, a hyper kid ). And unnecessary addiction to these medications is rampant.

 

But there are so many cases where God's medicinal resources (through natural herbs/remedies or modern medicine) help people escape a tortuous existence (schizophrenia, extreme pain, extreme depression etc.). The mind is altered, in a way. But I think God provides these resources so that sufferers can be the beautiful children God wants them to be on this earth. I guess kind of the way that Jesus healed so many...medication is one way that Jesus can heal people while on this earth.

 

Is that considered against God's plan though? (Some would say yes...that a true child of God would be cured through prayer and faith alone .)

[TaraMaiden]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

 

Ok- as example, abuse is the key- abuse of any sort, under the particular chemical- abusing the drug itself by "over medicating" or abusing another under it's effects whether over medicating (which is also abuse of oneself) or under the prescribed dosage.

 

I have many questions running through my mind right now. One of which was an exbf taking Prozac. He was quite abusive and had this crazy look in his eyes. He could have taken more than prescribed or he might have been mixing meds.

 

Another point of concern is, I can be high without being "high" as we do have chemicals in the brain that do produce this. I can also be high in the sense of chemicals such as periodically I get panic attacks...bad...the only thing that helps (because it actually hurts my heart when this happens) is a quarter or half of a 5mg Valium. I do feel the effects of the Valium. I would assume this does alter my mind. There is also physical pain from a lot of different sources and when it's real bad I take half or less of a low end pain med which is an opiate. This had me scared because if the Bible says (or any other faith) that this opens the door to witchcraft then I'd be screwed because the pain can run from a 7 to a 9 at times (pain scale from 1-10).

 

Opiates do alter the mind and I got really scared before and after surgery because the pain was so intense. During taking so many pain meds I didn't notice the effect (they were 750 Norco) until afterwards. My thinking was affected...but what could I do?

 

With this, thinking of just about everyone I know being on much stronger meds than opiates or Norco (which I know is an opiate too). I know many on the different forms of oxy's...but what if they need them, like my neighbor going through chemo right now.

 

Tara, so many concerns about all sorts of meds and I want to have the right perspective...thank you love:love:

 

PiH, several things:

 

First of all, what others choose to do with regard to drug-taking is ultimately their choice and their decision. While we can attempt to lead by example, and try to influence them positively, when push comes to shove, the bottom line is that they must be responsible for themselves.

So your ex taking prozac was beyond your control.... In situations where we are placed in crisis or danger, our first thoughts must be to self-protection.

 

Rather like the instructions on a 'plane..... "Ensure your oxygen mask is in place before assisting someone else."

 

As to your dilemma with regard to effects: remember that absolutely everything you take in, has a 'side-effect; right down to the air that we breathe.

 

 

The point is actually the 'cure' to 'carelessness' - which is Mindfulness.

 

Curiously, someone who has a mental affliction, is in their "wrong mind" when they're in their 'right mind'. They need assistance to connect the wiring properly.

 

And that's perfectly OK.

 

Someone who is hyper-sensitive to the changes and effects of taking ANY substance (remember coffee has some pretty strong effects too!) Is more vigilant about their behaviour.

 

Simply because something has a side-effect doesn't mean it's a negative substance, or that the side-effect is negative.....

 

It's all a question of being Mindful.

Seeking the 'Truth' to within what you're doing for yourself.

Edited May 13, 2013 by TaraMaiden

[TheFinalWord]

This is a perplexing issue concerning the Bible to me. I don't really know what it means.

 

I've done various studies on it only to stop due to lack of understanding. I understand that street drugs fit the description to a tee, although do question marijuana.

 

What the world calls "legal" like alochol, I find to fit the description of pharmekia, but this could be wrong. I just don't know.

 

What do you think, what is your take on what the Bible means concerning "pharmekia"?

 

From the word study I did a few years ago, I agree with TaraM (I think I posted once about this topic, but can't find it now).

 

One thing PIH (and this is a hardcore concept to take in) we have great liberty in Christ (a concept that stronger Christians need to study more. Paul taught b/c those that are strong in faith do not bother with 'is this a sin or is that' b/c a life of faith is about fulfilling the vision God has for our lives; not can I get away with this or that haha if that makes sense We're forgiven of all sin--past, present, future--so it's not about is this a sin or is that a sin, it's about will this act or behavior edify my life which is in service to Christ). Not that anything goes, again this is a meatier spiritual topic, but growing in Christ is a heart changing process. As we grow in Christ our heart changes and we do not want to sin...for me, I don't condemn people that drink but I have no need for it. I have great joy in Christ and have no need of mind-altering substances. But I don't condemn those that do (it's not my place). One thing that greatly annoys me about Christians is they often don't give people time to grow. This inflexible attitude from many Christians, is not a concept taught in the New Testament. It's definitely not the one that God uses or we would all have been stuck by lightening by now lol

 

We learn through life experience which are designed by the Holy Spirit to train and mold us and increase our faith (yet we have free will to determine; this is the paradox of free will and pre-destination. Trying to understand this is like trying to understand the trinity...good luck haha).The Holy Spirit, the spirit of wisdom (discernment) teaches those that accept Christ as Lord of their life. What is edifying for increasing my faith? That will matter more than "is this technically a sin or is that?" b/c whatever is not done in faith is sin (Rom 14:23)

 

The Holy spirit tempers us He is a lot more patient and kind than people, and he knows us intimately. I've learned, I like him as my teacher more than other people. haha Kind of scattered right now b/c I'm traveling but later this week we can talk more b/c these are the topics I love discussing (life application topics). Questions you ask are always awesome PIH! I can tell you are growing big time :)

 

There are many verses from Paul that I think you might enjoy studying more.

 

Romans 14 is a good spiritually meaty chapter; for alcohol saying 19 in Proverbs 23 is interesting. So there is freedom in Christ, but what is in our best interest for growing in Christ? When we seek Christ, that is what matters most. It's not my life. it's His!

 

Whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin

 

Paul dealt a lot with eating food scarified to idols as this was the "hot"topic of Christians in that day. But when we walk in the spirit we do not fulfill the works of the flesh. But the liberty we have in christ combined with a heart desire to serve the Lord is why Paul stated: But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged by no man.

Edited May 14, 2013 by TheFinalWord

[pie2]

There are many verses from Paul that I think you might enjoy studying more.

 

Romans 14 is a good spiritually meaty chapter; for alcohol saying 19 in Proverbs 23 is interesting. So there is freedom in Christ, but what is in our best interest for growing in Christ? When we seek Christ, that is what matters most. It's not my life. it's His!

 

Whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin

 

Paul dealt a lot with eating food scarified to idols as this was the "hot"topic of Christians in that day. But when we walk in the spirit we do not fulfill the works of the flesh. But the liberty we have in christ combined with a heart desire to serve the Lord is why Paul stated: But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged by no man.

 

Great advice, TFW . We're very free in Christ.

 

From the word study I did a few years ago, I agree with TaraM (I think I posted once about this topic, but can't find it now).

 

I'm still trying to understand the word. Does pharmakeia refer to mindfulness or carelessness, or something completely different ? I'm confused, lol.

[TheFinalWord]

Great advice, TFW . We're very free in Christ.

 

 

 

I'm still trying to understand the word. Does pharmakeia refer to mindfulness or carelessness, or something completely different ? I'm confused, lol.

 

Here is a good resources. Blue Letter Bible .org has all kinds of commentaries, lexicons,dictionaries...nerdy Christian stuff (I love it )

 

pharmakeia

 

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

 

1) the use or the administering of drugs

2) poisoning

3) sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it

4) metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry

 

 

Word is used in Gal. 5:20, Rev. 9:21, Rev. 18;23

 

 

pharmakeus

 

 

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

 

 

Word used in Rev. 21:8 sorcerers5332

 

1) one who prepares or uses magical remedies

2) sorcerer

 

Hope it helps!

[pureinheart]

I'd never heard this term before. Reading through the Wiki site, it seems like biblically, the term is always used in reference to something evil (witchcraft or sorcery)?

 

I agree that there is an over-reliance on medication in the US. So many people want a cure for, or want to escape what I consider to be normal pain and suffering (like bereavement, the normal down-in-the-dumps day, a hyper kid ). And unnecessary addiction to these medications is rampant.

 

But there are so many cases where God's medicinal resources (through natural herbs/remedies or modern medicine) help people escape a tortuous existence (schizophrenia, extreme pain, extreme depression etc.). The mind is altered, in a way. But I think God provides these resources so that sufferers can be the beautiful children God wants them to be on this earth. I guess kind of the way that Jesus healed so many...medication is one way that Jesus can heal people while on this earth.

 

Is that considered against God's plan though? (Some would say yes...that a true child of God would be cured through prayer and faith alone .)

 

Pie, this is the conclusion I've come to also. Something that runs much deeper than possibly even drug addiction or usage.

 

LOL, your last paragraph cracked me up. When first becoming saved I was very ill, functional, but ill. Doctors were trying to figure out what was wrong and in this process I was sideways due to meds. Yuk. Well anyway a few of my friends from one church prayed over me. I remained ill. I was told that I would have been healed if I had enough faith. After a time of tripping and talking to others learned that that was wayyyyy off. This was one of many crazy teachings I encountered in the beginning of my walk.

 

The Apostle Paul speaks of a "thorne in his side", most believe it was a physical issue to keep him humble. The "physical" part is speculation, but he did say it was meant to keep him humble and that God was allowing it.

 

Awesome response Pie:D

[TheFinalWord]

LOL, your last paragraph cracked me up. When first becoming saved I was very ill, functional, but ill. Doctors were trying to figure out what was wrong and in this process I was sideways due to meds. Yuk. Well anyway a few of my friends from one church prayed over me. I remained ill. I was told that I would have been healed if I had enough faith. After a time of tripping and talking to others learned that that was wayyyyy off. This was one of many crazy teachings I encountered in the beginning of my walk.

 

I agree, it's way off

Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

 

I guess Timothy didn't have enough faith (1 Tim 5:23)