What Atheists wish Christians knew about them

[ffw]

Personally, I never understood the concept of religious people (including Chirstianity) pushing down their "values & truth" down the throat of other believers & non-believers. Claiming their "God" & "Holy book" is the one.

 

Can you describe God in human language? or describe him in few books? Are you capable of saying what God is capable of? God doesn't divide people, but religion does.

[M30USA]

Personally, I never understood the concept of religious people (including Chirstianity) pushing down their "values & truth" down the throat of other believers & non-believers. Claiming their "God" & "Holy book" is the one.

 

Can you describe God in human language? or describe him in few books? Are you capable of saying what God is capable of? God doesn't divide people, but religion does.

 

Unfortunately God hasn't revealed himself completely to mankind yet. Nor has he made known his plans fully. For whatever reason, he has chosen in his perfect wisdom to gradually reveal himself over thousands of years. Why? I don't know. That's just what the Bible indicates.

 

The single biggest revelation so far by God has been Jesus Christ. This showed us exactly who God is as a man--in ways we can understand. However, we also are told that Jesus was not fully glorified and revealed to us yet. Even his first coming was partially veiled. Why does God do this? I don't know. But I trust his unfolding plan.

[soccerrprp]

Unfortunately God hasn't revealed himself completely to mankind yet. Nor has he made known his plans fully. For whatever reason, he has chosen in his perfect wisdom to gradually reveal himself over thousands of years. Why? I don't know. That's just what the Bible indicates.

 

The single biggest revelation so far by God has been Jesus Christ. This showed us exactly who God is as a man--in ways we can understand. However, we also are told that Jesus was not fully glorified and revealed to us yet. Even his first coming was partially veiled. Why does God do this? I don't know. But I trust his unfolding plan.

 

And all of this wishy-washiness and inconsistencies leave millions, billions in a world of injustice, hate, neglect, etc.

 

Giving generation after generation cause to doubt him and his existence. Too bad, wouldn't you say?

[M30USA]

And all of this wishy-washiness and inconsistencies leave millions, billions in a world of injustice, hate, neglect, etc.

 

Giving generation after generation cause to doubt him and his existence. Too bad, wouldn't you say?

 

Okay...so if I were to tell you that we know everything about God, you say that's condescending and arrogant. But if I tell you that we DONT know everything about God and that his revelation is gradual, you say that's wishy-washy, etc. in doing so you have created a impossible expectation where no matter what anyone says, and no matter how God operates, you refuse to be satisfied.

[HokeyReligions]

Could you explain how someone can hate something that he thinks does not exist?

 

Fear. Often fear of something not understood translates to "hate"

[HokeyReligions]

Okay...so if I were to tell you that we know everything about God, you say that's condescending and arrogant. But if I tell you that we DONT know everything about God and that his revelation is gradual, you say that's wishy-washy, etc. in doing so you have created a impossible expectation where no matter what anyone says, and no matter how God operates, you refuse to be satisfied.

 

Immovable object. Irresistible force.

[M30USA]

Immovable object. Irresistible force.

 

Lol, you know what my answer to that question is?

 

The unstoppable ball pushes through the immoveable wall and keeps going. And the immovable wall stops the ball from moving past it.

 

[Keenly]

Okay...so if I were to tell you that we know everything about God, you say that's condescending and arrogant. But if I tell you that we DONT know everything about God and that his revelation is gradual, you say that's wishy-washy, etc. in doing so you have created a impossible expectation where no matter what anyone says, and no matter how God operates, you refuse to be satisfied.

 

You are missing the point. Regardless of what you are saying, its the fact that you insist that.your way is the ONLY way, and all dissenting opinions are wrong, that we dislike.

[M30USA]

You are missing the point. Regardless of what you are saying, its the fact that you insist that.your way is the ONLY way, and all dissenting opinions are wrong, that we dislike.

 

Correction: it's not my opinion, it's the Bible. You can try to pin it on me all you want, but the Bible has contained these words for 4000 years. Additionally it's the most published book in human history. Again, it's not "my" way.

 

Above all of this, your ONLY concern should be whether or not what I'm telling you is true. Even if I were the only man on earth saying it, that matters not. Truth is truth, regardless of consensus.

Edited May 14, 2013 by M30USA

[Keenly]

Correction: it's not my opinion, it's the Bible. You can try to pin it on me all you want, but the Bible has contained these words for 4000 years. Additionally it's the most published book in human history. Again, it's not "my" way.

 

Above all of this, your ONLY concern should be whether or not what I'm telling you is true. Even if I were the only man on earth saying it, that matters not. Truth is truth, regardless of consensus.

 

Your putting words in my mouth now, I said you don't respect OUR opinion. Your making Christians look bad again. You should know better. Your forcing your views on people by demanding your views are absolute truth. This is why atheists have no respect for you.

 

 

"My way is 100 fact , whether you like it or not"

 

Who even wants to have a conversation with some one so closed minded?

 

I don't care what your bible says. I don't care what you believe about your god. I am entitled to my belief system just as you are entitled to yours. All I freaking ask is you RESPECT THE DIGFRRENCE OF OPINION. Rather than being a condescending jerk, as you have been all thread. Just say " hey that's not how I beleive, BuT that's cool" rather than spouting off how were all wrong and your right and its impossible yp be a good person without god.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Keenly

[Phoebe]

M30USA can you please tell me if you have watched the video that I posted in the first thread and what are your thoughts on it? At the very least have you read the 11 points that Carter talks about in the video (which I listed in my next post)? Because it seems to me that you have not taken any notice of the point of this thread, all you have done is quote bible verses and push the word of your particular god. That was not what this was supposed to be about and there are plenty of more suitable threads that you can do that on.

[M30USA]

I haven't once told you what you must believe. Perhaps you've been projecting or hearing what you want to hear?

[Keenly]

I haven't once told you what you must believe. Perhaps you've been projecting or hearing what you want to hear?

 

 

By insisting we are wrong, and that your belief system is the only true one, you in fact are.

 

 

Most of the religious world doesn't seem to grasp the concept that people are different. Instead they insist that the entire human race MUST experience life the same way they do. They feel that because they found jesus, and their lives were changed by god, that EVERYONE around them must now go through the same transformation that they did.

 

They judge (Lol, christians) that people who don't believe must live immorally, and their lives will never be whole unless they believe what you believe (condescending).

 

 

The worst part is they refuse to take no for an answer. You do realize you will never convince me, or any other atheist right? 6 years of catholic school when I was a kid couldn't seem to do that.

 

 

It's cool man, you don't get us. I certainly don't get you. I'm also not going to sit here and tell you that you are wrong in believing in god, or the bible, or any other religious mumbo jumbo. It's really too bad you cant afford the same non-judgemental courtesyof respect. You know, that whole love thy neighbor thing.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Keenly

[M30USA]

By insisting we are wrong, and that your belief system is the only true one, you in fact are.

 

 

Most of the religious world doesn't seem to grasp the concept that people are different. Instead they insist that the entire human race MUST experience life the same way they do. They feel that because they found jesus, and their lives were changed by god, that EVERYONE around them must now go through the same transformation that they did.

 

They judge (Lol, christians) that people who don't believe must live immorally, and their lives will never be whole unless they believe what you believe (condescending).

 

 

The worst part is they refuse to take no for an answer. You do realize you will never convince me, or any other atheist right? 6 years of catholic school when I was a kid couldn't seem to do that.

 

Again, you don't answer to me. All I have ever attempted is to inform you about the Gospel and Scripture. Your decision is your decision. The fact that the Bible claims to be the only way is secondary--and always will be--to the question of whether or not it's TRUE. If it's true, then the exclusivity and "closed-mindedness" issue falls by the wayside. Is a married man closed-minded and exclusive for deciding upon one wife? Is a college student closed-minded for settling upon one field of study? I guess...but you see how it doesn't address the bigger issue?

 

Good luck.

[D-Lish]

Correction: it's not my opinion, it's the Bible. You can try to pin it on me all you want, but the Bible has contained these words for 4000 years. Additionally it's the most published book in human history. Again, it's not "my" way.

 

Above all of this, your ONLY concern should be whether or not what I'm telling you is true. Even if I were the only man on earth saying it, that matters not. Truth is truth, regardless of consensus.

 

Your logic is severely flawed. Just because a book is old does not mean it must be true, just because it's old. If the aforementioned were true, we'd have to accept that ALL antiquated writings must be true. Were there many "Gods" in literature before "your" God? (YES) If so- then your argument is lost, because Christianity is "new" with regard to other religious teachings that date much further back than the appearance of "Christ" in historical literature. If your argument comes down to affiliation- there are more Muslims in the world than Christians. The Quran is pretty "up there" with "the Bible.

 

If you accept that the Bible was divinely inspired (meaning men wrote the book through God's guidance), you have to accept that God is flawed- because the Bible of full of hypocrisy, inconsistencies, and some crazy stuff that most people that claim to be Christian haven't heard of because the local pastor isn't going to address any of those passages.

 

God can't be proven, nor disproven. To say that a book has longevity and must therefore be wholly true isn't a good argument- it's actually a silly argument.

Edited May 14, 2013 by D-Lish

[M30USA]

the Bible of full of hypocrisy, inconsistencies, and some crazy stuff that most people that claim to be Christian haven't heard of because the local pastor isn't going to address any of those passages.

 

I got news for you. Most pastors DO NOT believe Scripture literally. This was a profound realization for me. They relegate it into the area of mythology with a "good practical message".

 

I happen to be a biblical literalist--as was Isaac Newton. Do you care to list any fantastical or outrageous ideas in the Bible and maybe I can give you some information which will help it sound less...unbelievable?

[D-Lish]

I got news for you. Most pastors DO NOT believe Scripture literally. This was a profound realization for me. They relegate it into the area of mythology with a "good practical message".

 

I happen to be a biblical literalist--as was Isaac Newton. Do you care to list any fantastical or outrageous ideas in the Bible and maybe I can give you some information which will help it sound less...unbelievable?

 

Well... I am a Religious Studies Major- AND an Atheist. I've read the Bible from cover to cover.

 

I could talk about concubines, homosexuality, violence, murder, rape... Bottom line is it doesn't matter. You can't state that a book holds the truth- then state that you don't take it literally- you prefer to "interpret".

[pie2]

What I liked about this video and the purpose behind starting this thread was to get beyond the stereotypes. I liked how the pastor and Carter were able to come together and respectfully acknowledge a difference in their beliefs. At the end of the video the pastor says how appreciative he is that Carter did not try to ridicule his beliefs or try to convert him, to which Carter simply replied that there was no need to. I loved that.

 

I like that Carter was able to discuss his concerns with this group . I can understand where he's coming from on some issues. Others don't seem like quite as big a concern to me.

 

#1. We have morals too.

 

I agree with Beth that this is a thread in itself. I think many Christians believe that God "writes" a moral code into each of our hearts. So it's not a question of having morals, imo. To me, it's more about which morals are they following, and why?

 

#2. You don't know us better than ourselves.

 

This is universal, imo. Most people don't want others thinking they know more about themselves then they do.

 

#3. We don't deep down believe in your particular god.

#4. We don't hate your particular god.

#10. Hell doesn't scare us. To us it doesn't even make sense.

#6. Believing isn't a choice.

 

These just seem like an obvious annoyance. Atheists don't believe in any of this stuff, which is inherent in the definition of an atheist. I can understand the frustration.

 

#9. We don't worship the devil.

 

I think Carter could probably be a bit more tolerant with #9. Although he states as such, it's just a fact of the Christian faith and its believers that they're going to think you're hanging with the wrong crowd if you're not following Jesus. I know this gets people upset, and they can brush it off as "those wacko Christians" if they want. But it's a fundamental part of the whole belief system.

 

#5. We don't all disbelieve because something bad happened to us.

 

Ok.

 

#8. Quoting the bible doesn't work like a Jedi mind trick.

 

This is funny to me.

 

#11. Not all of us are anti-theists

 

Thank goodness!! I believe him, when we're talking about day-to-day life. But if it comes down to it, I think an atheist would become pretty anti-theist pretty quick if they felt those beliefs impinged on their lives in any way (i.e. their children's education, abortion, gay rights, prayer in school, crosses on public land, etc. etc. etc.).

 

 

Now, I need clarification about something. It seems like Carter is making generalizations about this group of people who are tied together with a common belief system. He admits that there are commonalities that help define the culture of an atheist. That's fine. But, in this forum, when we discuss the "religious people are responsible for all the wars" topic, then atheists suddenly seem to not be a group, and can't act or do anything based on atheism, because "atheism is really nothing...it's just an absence of a belief".

 

So, when is atheism a cultural group bound by a common belief, and when is it not?

[TheFinalWord]

Only God can cause a seed to grow. I can plant it. That's all. But it still needs to be planted.

 

The bible itself is so ridiculously easy to obtain in free countries...it's almost shameful how much we take it for granted. Most Christians don't know the history of those that suffered to make that basic freedom possible.

 

The best seed is a living testimony of the power of Christ (i.e. others witnessing your life and seeing Christ embodied in our lives). Apologetics has limited capability on the internet.

 

When it comes to on-line debating, one thing we all have to be careful about is getting our ego involved. When the Spirit says witness, witness. But when it says stop, we have to stop. It's not about winning a debate, that's carnal IMHO.

Edited May 14, 2013 by TheFinalWord

[M30USA]

The best seed is a living testimony of the power of Christ (i.e. others witnessing your life and seeing Christ embodied in our lives). Apologetics has limited capability on the internet.

 

When it comes to on-line debating, one thing we all have to be careful about is getting our ego involved. When the Spirit says witness, witness. But when it says stop, we have to stop. It's not about winning a debate, that's carnal IMHO.

 

Honestly, TFW, I respect your opinion. You know that. Am I coming off as trying to win a debate? I tend to speak enthusiastically about certain things. (Aspergers???) I suppose it comes of as trying to win, but to me it's more about trying to...correct...misunderstandings and false doctrine regarding the Scripture, Gospel and God. That's how I see it, anyway.

 

Anyway, don't mess with an Christian with Asperger's.

 

Just thought of new bumpersticker:

 

ASPERGERS FOR CHRIST

Edited May 14, 2013 by M30USA

[M30USA]

The bible itself is so ridiculously easy to obtain in free countries...it's almost shameful how much we take it for granted. Most Christians don't know the history of those that suffered to make that basic freedom possible.

 

I KNOW!!!!!!!!!!

 

Ever hearing, never perceiving.

[sb129]

[TheFinalWord]

Honestly, TFW, I respect your opinion. You know that. Am I coming off as trying to win a debate? I tend to speak enthusiastically about certain things. (Aspergers???) I suppose it comes of as trying to win, but to me it's more about trying to...correct...misunderstandings and false doctrine regarding the Scripture, Gospel and God. That's how I see it, anyway.

 

Anyway, don't mess with an Christian with Asperger's.

 

Just thought of new bumpersticker:

 

ASPERGERS FOR CHRIST

 

haha that's a good one!

 

No sorry my posts are a bit scattered right now (haha i'm in like 3 time zones in a week). I quoted you and I liked what you said about planting seeds. I do think that many atheist vs. Christian debates get quit heated and instead of both sides learning more about each other, most walk away more entrenched about what they did not like about the other group's side.

 

Not just for you but for all (me!) that get into debating with atheists. It can be frustrating b/c you give all of these examples and arguments and they don't make much difference. Don't get discouraged. When you feel frustrated keep two things in mind: 1) In the on-line environment you're fighting with one arm and one leg behind your back. Our lives are the greatest testimony for Christ. So I guess what I'm saying is don't let it frustrate you because all you can give over a board like this is text, logic, and reason...but witnessing a life of a man or woman following Christ (that does it right) is a much more powerful seed we can plant with a few lines of text typed by a bunch of anonymous blips on the Web. So this is also for the internet warriors that proselytize their belief or non-belief. Preaching online is not that effective unless the audience is motivated to learn. When you attach a claim to your name (for Christians we claim Christ) that makes a statement. People are watching...and I think atheists will agree its the hypocrites of Christianity that are a primary deterrent from respecting our faith. 2) If you are doing that correctly and are still not making any headway, pray and seek the Lord about his opinion about the track you are on. He may be saying that door is closed. It can be hard to accept that instruction from God, but it is needed at times. But the corollary of that set up is that when we debate we have to keep Christ in mind and before each new post ask ourselves am "I" typing this (I, the spiritual man that walks in the fruits of the spirit) or is my ego typing this (Let me not take time to see what they said, but instead hurry up and come up with a rebuttal.......sccceeeeccchhhh breaks Ego is now in charge of the debate. Now the debate comes about I have to defend Jesus and my ego is the barometer for assessing that. When ego gets involved walls go up, anger ensues, and frustration builds...then we get in trouble

Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town and in his own home.” And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith

 

This illustrates the amazing ability of Jesus to keep his ego under lock and key. Here he is in is on home town (where reputation matters most) and they rejected his claim to be the Messiah. He did not debate with him, he only went to those with faith and focused there.Because of their unbelief he did not do many works there.

 

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them,

[TheFinalWord]

 

 

[M30USA]

TFW,

 

I know it looks as of I'm "not making any headway", but here's my opinion on that:

 

Oftentimes we don't see the result of seeds planted for years, even decades. And by the time (hopefully) many of these people wind up accepting Christ, they won't even remember me--assuming I was even the deliverer of the message. So I've learned to never judge the job I'm doing by how much headway I appear to be making.

 

I believe it's better, ironically, to NOT be "relevant" to people. As Paul Washer says, the world doesn't need more "relevant Christians". Jesus' kingdom is not of this world and the world is passing away (1 John 2:15-17). It's better to just present the Gospel and Scripture to people boldly and without fear of how counter-cultural it is. Then, down the line, if the person ever does consider it, I can almost GUARANTEE you it will be because of the bold teachers who presented it without watering down that they wind up believing--and not because of relevant, worldly teaching. If people want a way out of the worlds system, why give them more of the same crap? (And I think each of these posters deserve more than a few posts back and forth-- at least until they firmly understand what is being presented to them, even if they currently want no part of it.)

Edited May 14, 2013 by M30USA