why do we tell ourselves it's ok?

[who_am_i]

Has anyone else been to see a therapist after your affair ended? Have you been able to determine why it was that you were able to tell yourself that the way you were being treated was ok?

 

I read here that often times the affair starts on what appears to be a level playing field. Then, after time, something changes and the MM/MW begins to take control the relationship.

 

For me this happened so gradually that I didn't even see how much of myself I'd sacrificed until the affair was over. Today I went back and re-read my first entry here on LS. I wrote that being without him was awful and anything was better then nothing at all. Now, 3 months later, I can see how foolish this is. I'm embarrassed at what I was happily settling for during those final months together.

 

Has anyone else been through this and been able to figure out why?

[Goodbye]

Has anyone else been to see a therapist after your affair ended? Have you been able to determine why it was that you were able to tell yourself that the way you were being treated was ok?

 

I read here that often times the affair starts on what appears to be a level playing field. Then, after time, something changes and the MM/MW begins to take control the relationship.

 

For me this happened so gradually that I didn't even see how much of myself I'd sacrificed until the affair was over. Today I went back and re-read my first entry here on LS. I wrote that being without him was awful and anything was better then nothing at all. Now, 3 months later, I can see how foolish this is. I'm embarrassed at what I was happily settling for during those final months together.

 

 

Interesting notion, that many affairs start of with an "equal playing field" and then the married partner has more power. I hadn't heard that before, but it was true in my relationship with the exMM. Ours started out as friendship, and in that dynamic, I think I was actually the more "powerful" one. At the onset of the affair, and in the beginning months, he was definitely the "aggressor," and I was more the one "deciding" when or if I'd go along with plans.

 

Overtime this did shift. Our last meeting (ours was long distance) was definitely at my initiative, I felt I pushed it. Toward the end, I felt I was carrying the relationship, although all of his "words" were still the same, his actions weren't so much.

 

I suspect after the intensity of the new found love wore down a bit, he had to more closely examine the big picture of his married existence and it was no longer so easy to deny. In addition, while we never had a d day, I'm sure his wife did get sick of all of his "business trips" and started to put her foot down, making it harder for him to get away, and probably making it less of a honeymoon feeling for him. At the end, I felt he was calling most of the shots...we were no longer equals. I felt a bit desperate, at his mercy. He was the one who decided he "needed a break to figure out his life" and now we are in NC. I assume, for all purposes, it is a dead issue now. Still, he holds all the cards if there are any...only he can change a situation and make something possible.

[GettingOver]

I hadn't heard that before, but it was true in my relationship with the exMM. Ours started out as friendship, and in that dynamic, I think I was actually the more "powerful" one. At the onset of the affair, and in the beginning months, he was definitely the "aggressor," and I was more the one "deciding" when or if I'd go along with plans.

 

Overtime this did shift. Our last meeting (ours was long distance) was definitely at my initiative, I felt I pushed it. Toward the end, I felt I was carrying the relationship, although all of his "words" were still the same, his actions weren't so much.

 

That same thing happened to me! We were also in a long distance relationship, we broke up once, then got back together but things were not the same, I also felt exaclt like "carrying the relationship, although all of his "words" were still the same, his actions weren't so much". And our last meeting was at my initiative and actually my last goodbye became possible cause he postponed and postponed the next meeting... And I was tired of pushing, asking, etc.

[HeartWon'tHeal]

Its been two years for me since my A ended and I finally started seeing a counselor last fall. It has been extremely helpful and I plan to continue counseling. Of course we discuss other things I am working on in my life.

 

Looking back I did give him the power and my life revolved around him. I was on the sidelines looking in.

 

Recently I have seen the light so to speak and I am starting to feel indifference towards him. I am at the point I am glad I am not his wife and I actually feel sorry for his wife. I have many other more positive things in my life than to think about him any longer. It will get better...I promise.

[Summer Breeze]

When I see someone come in here asking for advice, and probably actually wanting approval, about the beginning of an A I tell them to keep their power. Set their own boundaries and enforce them. If the MM doesn't like it then he can avoid the A. Don't lose yourself and don't let him talk you into it. One reason is so they can see the reaction from the MM and if they try to talk them into less. The other is so they don't lose their power.

 

I think this is something in many, many Rs. It's not limited to As only. I think the most frightening thing is how some OW/OM will gradually slide into a position where they have little to no power. Like someone said, they probably don't even see it happening.

 

When I ended the A I saw myself starting to lose a little. The R was getting more important to me than I felt like it was to him. That was the end of it for me.

[cocorico]

 

I read here that often times the affair starts on what appears to be a level playing field. Then, after time, something changes and the MM/MW begins to take control the relationship.

 

 

This is interesting. In my own case, I think I definitely had more "power" in the early stages, as I was less invested, and I had more options whereas his only option was to return to an unsatisfactory M. Over time, I began to trust him, to let him in a little, and when we fell in love the playing field was levelled in most respects.

 

I think why so many OW cede their power over time is because of the myth that some things are structural inevitabilities in an A. If, for example, you are told (by the MM, or by a friend, or someone here) that *of course* the OW can only get crumbs, can only see the MM at his convenience, that she has to take a backseat on public holidays because he will be with his family, etc then this do sizes her expectations and she demands less of him, while still allowing herself to be as available to him (or more...).

 

In reality, if her demands were to remain at the same level as she would hold any other guy to - say, that he always takes her calls, that he sees her on weekends and public holidays and special days like VDay and BDays, that he doesn't cancel at short notice, etc then he would either step up (if he wanted to remain in the R) or admit that he wasn't prepared to invest to that extent, letting her know he was less invested in the R than she wanted, and giving her the choice to dump him and find a more equal R before she was overly invested, or to make the informed choice to place herself in a position of weakness in a R where he would be calling all the shots and she would only be a fallback... Which might suit her (e.g. If she herself was M).

 

I think the myth - that the OW simply has to accept crumbs, because that is all any OW can get in any A - masks the reality that there are real choices and that by choosing not to demand equal power and equal respect in a R, the OW never has to know whether or not she would have been important enough to the MM that he would have agreed to her demands. She can pretend that his bad treatment of her is a function of it being an A, not a function of how little she means to him, because it has never been put to the test.

[Athens]

Although you may not see it, I see tremendous growth and healing in your posts. That is all we can hope for, to come out on the other side of any situation stronger and healthier. I too do not understand why some people would accept the parameters of an affair, but it obviously happens quite a bit. I think the best thing that can come from such a horrible situation is that everyone involved grows and finds themselves from the wreckage. Good luck to you and keep taking care of you!

Edited May 13, 2013 by Athens

[who_am_i]

I think I was actually the more "powerful" one. At the onset of the affair, and in the beginning months, he was definitely the "aggressor," and I was more the one "deciding" when or if I'd go along with plans.

 

I tend to think this is probably most often the case. The same was true in my situation. He had been looking for an outlet and found that with me. He enjoyed the break from reality that spending time with me offered and...as much as it stings to say...I'm sure it wasn't easy to find someone willing to work within his ramifications.

 

Overtime this did shift. Our last meeting (ours was long distance) was definitely at my initiative, I felt I pushed it. Toward the end, I felt I was carrying the relationship, although all of his "words" were still the same, his actions weren't so much.

 

Same with me. Once I told him how I felt about him everything changed. It was almost as if now that he had me where he wanted me he could treat me however he wanted...and I let him. I would demand more and accept less over and over again. It's no surprise that he used this to his benefit. After all, I had technically agreed upon the start of the affair to allow him to "use" me (for lack of a better word) by getting involved knowing he was married.

 

He always agreed that I deserved more. It was like he was trying to soothe me with his words. He would agree with what I'd say about wanting more and then just continue to do less and less. He'd say things like...I know you want more time alone and so do I. I would if I could. I just can't right now but I'm trying...and naturally I'd believe him. I wanted to believe that he wanted to be with me just as bad as I wanted to be with him. Who really knows...guess now it hardly matters.

 

I'm sure his wife did get sick of all of his "business trips" and started to put her foot down, making it harder for him to get away, and probably making it less of a honeymoon feeling for him. At the end, I felt he was calling most of the shots...we were no longer equals. I felt a bit desperate, at his mercy.

 

I agree. Toward the end it seemed kinda forced. He still agreed that he wanted to see me...but it was like getting around to it was too much work. Sucks to say...

[who_am_i]

When I see someone come in here asking for advice, and probably actually wanting approval, about the beginning of an A I tell them to keep their power. Set their own boundaries and enforce them. If the MM doesn't like it then he can avoid the A. Don't lose yourself and don't let him talk you into it. One reason is so they can see the reaction from the MM and if they try to talk them into less. The other is so they don't lose their power.

 

I think this is something in many, many Rs. It's not limited to As only. I think the most frightening thing is how some OW/OM will gradually slide into a position where they have little to no power. Like someone said, they probably don't even see it happening.

 

When I ended the A I saw myself starting to lose a little. The R was getting more important to me than I felt like it was to him. That was the end of it for me.

 

Just the other day someone was debating getting into a relationship with a married man and all I could say was...DON'T DO IT! I wish that I could show these people clips of my life during and after. They need to realize that it's not all it's cracked up to be.

 

When I first met xMM I assumed that his relationship with his wife had to be awful...why else would he cheat? I was so gullible.

[who_am_i]

Although you may not see it, I see tremendous growth and healing in your posts. That is all we can hope for, to come out on the other side of any situation stronger and healthier. I too do not understand why some people would accept the parameters of an affair, but it obviously happens quite a bit. I think the best thing that can come from such a horrible situation is that everyone involved grows and finds themselves from the wreckage. Good luck to you and keep taking care of you!

 

 

Thank you!

[who_am_i]

I have learned the hard way, not just from the time I was knowingly in the affair but in other past relationships, that things will not turn out well if I give all my power away. Even love should have level headedness and thought put into it and both parties should be on equal footing, no imbalance of power.

 

This is where my trouble has always been. For some reason I love and show affection the way I want to be loved. It's always left me feeling short handed and, in the end, heartbroken. I just don't know how else to do it. I know that I don't want to become jaded and unable or afraid to love either.

 

I just sometimes think that love in general shouldn't be this hard.

Edited May 13, 2013 by who_am_i

[Praying4Peace]

When we were both married it was a level playing field. When I got separated and had more time, it became all about him and making sure his W didn't find out.

I stopped talking to all friends and doing most of the other things I usually did...but then so did he. His job suffered a lot and he didn't keep in touch with any of his friends.

 

But the biggest mistake was me waiting around for him to text/call/hang out...I should have done other things than keep all my free time open for him to see me all day. I would have been less depressed and in shock when it ended and the 'HOLE" wouldn't have been as large for me.

[RickFox]

I don't really know how level it was for me. Xmw approached me, mentioned she found me hot, initiated the physical, decided to end it. Apparently, I had no power in the whole thing or if I did, was too dumb to utilize it.

 

I don't think anyone says it's okay per se', just that we let our emotions dictate and justify things.

[GreyhoundtoNowhere]

 

He always agreed that I deserved more. It was like he was trying to soothe me with his words. He would agree with what I'd say about wanting more and then just continue to do less and less. He'd say things like...I know you want more time alone and so do I. I would if I could. I just can't right now but I'm trying...and naturally I'd believe him. .

 

hold up... my MM must have borrowed your xMM's book of lines. Cause wow.

[who_am_i]

hold up... my MM must have borrowed your xMM's book of lines. Cause wow.

 

I know...right?!?! It's as if they are all cut from the same mold.

 

The further I get from the affair the more ridiculous it all seems. Sure, I still sometimes think that it would be nice if he was the 1 out of a million who meant what he said. Somehow...I doubt it.

 

But knowing these things...recognizing them now...really doesn't make it any easier. I still miss him...well, the man i thought he was. But i cant have him...because he doesn't really exist.

 

I went from just plain missing him to missing him and feeling stupid about it. With any luck the feelings will continue to transition until I just don't care anymore. With any luck you will too...we all will!

[who_am_i]

I don't really know how level it was for me. Xmw approached me, mentioned she found me hot, initiated the physical, decided to end it. Apparently, I had no power in the whole thing or if I did, was too dumb to utilize it.

 

I don't think anyone says it's okay per se', just that we let our emotions dictate and justify things.

 

But that's where you're wrong. Initially she found you attractive and went after you. You found her attractive I imagine and a mutual relationship based on sex was developed. Somewhere along the line you must have admitted to her that you wanted more...and that's when she crept ahead. It's like...he who catches feelings first loses. Or maybe I should say admits to catching feelings first.

 

It was the same for me. It was never supposed to be about love or feelings between xMM and I...but one day I woke up like holy sh*t!

[who_am_i]

I don't think anyone says it's okay per se', just that we let our emotions dictate and justify things.

 

and I don't think we ever say its ok for someone to use us an lose us on purpose. Somehow it just slowly happens and after its over you're like...what was that?!?!

 

That's why I asked if anyone who's seen a therapist has come to the conclusion how it happened. Looking back was anyone able to say I did it for x,y,z reasons and I can see now how silly that way.

 

I just think in looking at myself this is something I'm trying to understand. Why did I love him and want to believe him so badly? I read here once how the MM has to say their marriage is awful because why would an OW stick around if he said everything was fine. And it made me feel so stupid cause I did!

[tryingto]

He would agree with what I'd say about wanting more and then just continue to do less and less.

 

This was my situation exactly towards the end! He was a master at "managing down" my expectations and I allowed it, blaming it on the dynamics of the relationship. I allowed it to be acceptable because I believed what he told me, that we would be together in an open R in *insert time frame here*. After several time frames came and went, I finally realized how imbalanced our relationship had become and how little his words meant because they didn't match his actions...

[tryingto]

hold up... my MM must have borrowed your xMM's book of lines. Cause wow.

 

Mine too! It's actually quite strange how similar a lot of our MM are... Is there a cheating-MM mold out there that needs to be broken??

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Mine was a master manipulator but I didn't see it until after everything was over - I see it now. I honestly had all of the power up until after the first dday. He was the one hat really idolized me and always had.

 

The tables turned when I got really emotionally attached. I think he knew at that point he was really in trouble. Also I think he always viewed me as a very strong independent woman (which I was) and then he got to see the vulnerable side of me (and I allowed it) - this was something he had a lot of trouble with and maybe actually ended up being the biggest problem.

 

I wish so badly I had never allowed him to take that power. I am so mad at myself for that.

 

But he won't see that when we meet again - he will see nothing.

[spice4life]

This is interesting. In my own case, I think I definitely had more "power" in the early stages, as I was less invested, and I had more options whereas his only option was to return to an unsatisfactory M. Over time, I began to trust him, to let him in a little, and when we fell in love the playing field was levelled in most respects.

 

I think why so many OW cede their power over time is because of the myth that some things are structural inevitabilities in an A. If, for example, you are told (by the MM, or by a friend, or someone here) that *of course* the OW can only get crumbs, can only see the MM at his convenience, that she has to take a backseat on public holidays because he will be with his family, etc then this do sizes her expectations and she demands less of him, while still allowing herself to be as available to him (or more...).

 

In reality, if her demands were to remain at the same level as she would hold any other guy to - say, that he always takes her calls, that he sees her on weekends and public holidays and special days like VDay and BDays, that he doesn't cancel at short notice, etc then he would either step up (if he wanted to remain in the R) or admit that he wasn't prepared to invest to that extent, letting her know he was less invested in the R than she wanted, and giving her the choice to dump him and find a more equal R before she was overly invested, or to make the informed choice to place herself in a position of weakness in a R where he would be calling all the shots and she would only be a fallback... Which might suit her (e.g. If she herself was M).

 

I think the myth - that the OW simply has to accept crumbs, because that is all any OW can get in any A - masks the reality that there are real choices and that by choosing not to demand equal power and equal respect in a R, the OW never has to know whether or not she would have been important enough to the MM that he would have agreed to her demands. She can pretend that his bad treatment of her is a function of it being an A, not a function of how little she means to him, because it has never been put to the test.

 

This is so true and to be honest it happened to me. I always fought it, but gave in too. I won't ever do that to myself again though. When you tell yourself it's all due to the affair dynamic you're screwed! It shows a total disregard for your self respect. Biggest lesson I learned in the end is that I don't have to go against my inner voice - the one that's telling me to not accept those terms and walk the heck away! If the person proposing it doesn't like it they can choose to walk away because NOTHING on this earth will make do that to myself again. Period end.

Edited May 14, 2013 by spice4life

[RickFox]

But that's where you're wrong. Initially she found you attractive and went after you. You found her attractive I imagine and a mutual relationship based on sex was developed. Somewhere along the line you must have admitted to her that you wanted more...and that's when she crept ahead. It's like...he who catches feelings first loses. Or maybe I should say admits to catching feelings first.

 

It was the same for me. It was never supposed to be about love or feelings between xMM and I...but one day I woke up like holy sh*t!

 

Therein lies the rub. We were friends for a bit over a year and after we began the affair she was the first to say she was falling for me. I didnt want to open that door but I did and here I am now. We both spoke of being together but i guess i was far more serious about

It and ..... tis what it T I is.

[GreyhoundtoNowhere]

I know...right?!?! It's as if they are all cut from the same mold.

 

The further I get from the affair the more ridiculous it all seems. Sure, I still sometimes think that it would be nice if he was the 1 out of a million who meant what he said. Somehow...I doubt it.

 

I went from just plain missing him to missing him and feeling stupid about it. With any luck the feelings will continue to transition until I just don't care anymore. With any luck you will too...we all will!

 

 

 

i can't wait till i get there. mine has been such a jerk for the last week or so, and today he sends a msg that says "I am still in love with you even if I have not acted as such lately."

What?! Ugh. please. Anyway.

Thanks for sharing your story though.. it helps.

[spice4life]

I don't think I ever told myself the affair was 'ok'...

 

LOL. Good observation! I never told myself it was "ok", but I had mary conversatons in my head trying to talk myself into saying it...lol.

[Goodbye]

hold up... my MM must have borrowed your xMM's book of lines. Cause wow.

 

 

Yep, mine too! This would end up infuriating me even more.