Funniest Verses In The Bible

[pie2]

You are confusing prostitutes with Irish rock stars.

 

LOL! I guess you're right!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUiTQvT0W_0

[M30USA]

I'm very familiar with that Zimbabwe case. It was investigated by Dr. John Mack of Harvard.

[Robert Z]

LOL! I guess you're right!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUiTQvT0W_0

 

Yep, and I've even been open to green women since Star Trek came out.

[pie2]

Yep, and I've even been open to green women since Star Trek came out.

 

I would never have guessed you would be into the ET population (well, almost never ).

 

 

[Robert Z]

I'm very familiar with that Zimbabwe case. It was investigated by Dr. John Mack of Harvard.

 

Yeah, and tell me those kids are lying. I find that very hard to believe. I find the idea of visiting aliens hard to believe as well, but that doesn't make the kids liars. Logic would suggest that it was something else, but when you watch and listen to those kids tell their stories... man, I just don't know what to think.

[Robert Z]

I would never have guessed you would be into the ET population (well, almost never ).

 

I'm not. But I am trained as a scientist and I don't ignore facts, especially facts that are so potentially significant. It's not my fault if the evidence is logically compelling for some kind of mystery! I don't try to explain it but I have become a bit of an expert. I have followed the subject casually since my days in college. That is where I first gained an interest. At one point I took a few months and read every declassified document released to date [NSA, FBI, CIA, DOD, USAF, USN, etc] which totaled about 3500 at that time, as I recall. And not easy reading!!! The docs are often barely legible.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Robert Z

[Robert Z]

I would never have guessed you would be into the ET population (well, almost never ).

 

 

 

Haha, I completely missed the context of your comment here! Yeah baby, alien escorts all the way! You know what they say: Once you go green you never go clean.

[M30USA]

Yeah, and tell me those kids are lying. I find that very hard to believe. I find the idea of visiting aliens hard to believe as well, but that doesn't make the kids liars. Logic would suggest that it was something else, but when you watch and listen to those kids tell their stories... man, I just don't know what to think.

 

Robert, it's already proveable that UFOs/ETs are real--for anyone who bothers to investigate. The only question is exactly who/what are they and what do they want.

 

ETs, themselves, clearly are keeping their own secrecy. It's not primarily our government. Even if our government "disclosed" every single thing they know, I'm not sure it would move us any further towards a full understanding.

 

I think you've followed my posts before. These UFOs/ETs are the "sons of God", or angels, of Scripture. They behave EXACTLY the same. (Please note I am NOT saying they are all good or all bad. They are potentially mixed and it requires discernment to tell the difference.)

 

My brother once made a profound comment when I asked him why, in his opinion, UFOs/ETs do not show up and end the confusion once and for all. His response was, "For the same reason that God, himself, doesn't."

Edited May 19, 2013 by M30USA

[Robert Z]

Robert, it's already proveable that UFOs/ETs are real--for anyone who bothers to investiage. The only question is exactly who/what are they and what do they want.

 

On that we shall disagree. I have bothered to investigate this for over 30 years and do not arrive at that conclusion.

 

Do I find some of the best of this highly compelling, absolutely. But there is nothing that rises to the standard of scientific evidence, much less proof. Anecdotes are not proof. Photos are not proof. Videos are not proof. I can argue every single case and offer some kind of explanation. It may not be one that I personally find logical or compelling, but one can always create some kind of alternative explanation. And by definition that means that there is no logical proof, much less scientific proof.

 

Without a body for science to examine, or a landed spacecraft, there can always be doubt. The standard for scientific evidence is far higher than most people would imagine. It is a very high standard to meet.

 

Could you prove it to the satisfaction of a jury in a court of law? Probably. But, ironically, that is a very low standard for proof.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Robert Z

[M30USA]

On that we shall disagree. I have bothered to investigate this for over 30 years and do not arrive at that conclusion.

 

Do I find some of the best of this highly compelling, absolutely. But there is nothing that rises to the standard of scientific evidence, much less proof. Anecdotes are not proof. Photos are not proof. Videos are not proof. I can argue every single case and offer some kind of explanation. It may not be one that I personally find logical or compelling, but one can always create some kind of alternative explanation. And by definition that means that there is no logical proof, much less scientific proof.

 

Without a body for science to examine, or a landed spacecraft, there can always be doubt. The standard for scientific evidence is far higher than most people would imagine. It is a very high standard to meet.

 

Could you prove it to the satisfaction of a jury in a court of law? Probably. But, ironically, that is a very low standard for proof.

 

Agreed. I put ZERO weight on photos and videos. They are just TOO easy to fake.

 

Here is what I do put weight on:

 

1) Scripture

2) Expert witness testimony (generals, pilots, military experts, etc.)

3) Radar returns

 

I can say with honesty that much of my stance on this subject is based on the assumption that Scripture is true. I believe it to be flawless in its accounts of numerous ET visitors.

[pie2]

Yeah baby, alien escorts all the way! You know what they say: Once you go green you never go clean.

 

 

Whatever floats your boat...just be careful!

 

 

[M30USA]

Dr. Michael Heiser, a Hebrew linguist and UFO researcher, says that there are MANY different hypotheses for the ET phenomenon--scientific, evolutionary, new age, mystical, religious, etc. But in his opinion the Judeochristian hypothesis (as documented in Scripture) has had it "pinned" for 4000 years and, while it's not complete, it DOES give us the BEST picture of what is going on in regard to this subject, as far as their identity and their motives.

Edited May 19, 2013 by M30USA

[pureinheart]

This discussion is beyond informative. It will be more informative once I can visit all of the links.

 

Pie, again you are too cute! I want to hit up the links you provided, was just pressed for time tonight:D

 

Like stating in another thread- all of the "ET" stuff answers the questions I've had for many years. There have been too many first hand accounts for all of these people to be hallucinating, you know? Scripture is my bottom line. These discussion have put a very complicated puzzle together, that turned out to be not complicated at all.

 

My problem was the inability to tie in these accounts with Scripture- done- thank you Jesus!

 

Hey thanks M30 for the detailed info with Close Encounters, this will help when I watch this movie again.

 

Sorry for so many random thoughts, although this has my mind all over the place in a wonderful way!

 

I know when something is of God for very simple reasons- my faith is strengthened. With these discussions my faith has increased by leaps and bounds. That is the witness that drives it all home. Also when there's a peace. I hate not understanding something, there is an anxiety inside and it doesn't subside until the lack of understanding is satisfied.

 

There is a personal witness involved. I've seen one angel that I know of beyond any shadow of a doubt. Also had one dream at the age of 4 or 5 and saw my guardian angels. There has never been a manifestation of demons, only the "feeling" of evil and fast moving shadows out of the corner of my eye that are "dark" in nature.

[Robert Z]

Dr. Michael Heiser, a Hebrew linguist and UFO researcher, says that there are MANY different hypotheses for the ET phenomenon--scientific, evolutionary, new age, mystical, religious, etc. But in his opinion the Judeochristian hypothesis (as documented in Scripture) has had it "pinned" for 4000 years and, while it's not complete, it DOES give us the BEST picture of what is going on in regard to this subject, as far as their identity and their motives.

 

If we assume that they exist, then I would put my money on time travelers. Ironically and surprisingly, from a scientific point of view, it is probably the most logical explanation. It solves a lot of practical problems - how they found us, why they would be here, how they could seemingly be around for long, why they have an interest in us... And time travel is as or more likely than ships that can travel faster than the speed of light. In fact you can't likely break the speed of light barrier without getting into time travel. They are directly linked.

 

But I don't take away from the possibility that scripture describes encounters with these guys.

[Robert Z]

So M30, what about technology? Are you saying that angels use computers? Is the link to heaven found in a fiber optic cable?

 

If one were to take Col Corso at face value, it would seem that we got a good bit of technology from angels. That certainly takes them out of the realm of the spiritual.

[M30USA]

If we assume that they exist, then I would put my money on time travelers. Ironically and surprisingly, from a scientific point of view, it is probably the most logical explanation. It solves a lot of practical problems - how they found us, why they would be here, how they could seemingly be around for long, why they have an interest in us... And time travel is as or more likely than ships that can travel faster than the speed of light. In fact you can't likely break the speed of light barrier without getting into time travel. They are directly linked.

 

But I don't take away from the possibility that scripture describes encounters with these guys.

 

They might APPEAR to be time travelers for the reason that spiritual beings exist outside the spacial dimensions. They are immaterial beings who can "walk" into any point of time in the same way that you and I can walk around from location to location.

[Robert Z]

They might APPEAR to be time travelers for the reason that spiritual beings exist outside the spacial dimensions. They are immaterial beings who can "walk" into any point of time in the same way that you and I can walk around from location to location.

 

So then you don't buy into any of the Roswell stuff?

 

Your interpretation of this is not generally consistent with alleged eyewitness accounts, abduction stories, and most of the anecdotes that suggest visitations are taking place.

 

The most common recurring theme in all of this is technology, not spirits.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Robert Z

[Robert Z]

Here is what I do put weight on:

 

1) Scripture

 

Fair enough but you realize that is circular logic, right? It is also a faith-based argument which carries no logical weight.

 

2) Expert witness testimony (generals, pilots, military experts, etc.)

 

I agree that there are some very impressive cases. However, the evidence for a mystery is far greater than the evidence for any particular explanation for that mystery. As for military cases, even the most liberal interpretation of the "encounters" would suggest that we are seeing robotic probes of some sort. And that makes more sense than the idea that we are seeing crafts that have physical beings inside. What's more, we would send robotic probes long before we would send people to some distant planet. And robots are infinitely more practical. That is why we ourselves are exploring the local planets robotically right now.

 

3) Radar returns

 

That is only evidence showing that a physical object was likely present. When correlated with eyewitness accounts involving direct observations, such as with pilots, obviously RADAR offers strong supporting evidence for the anecdotal claims.

 

I can say with honesty that much of my stance on this subject is based on the assumption that Scripture is true. I believe it to be flawless in its accounts of numerous ET visitors.

 

Then your position is a religious one. For me it is all about the most logical interpretation of the best direct evidence available. But no matter how you slice it, were even one of the accounts of alien/angel/time traveling/transdimensional or whatever beings true, it would be the biggest news story in the history news. If there is a long history with these alleged visitors, then it is the biggest story in all of human history. That is undeniably true.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Robert Z

[Robert Z]

This is one of the only scientific papers on the subject of UFOs to be published in recent years.

 

Inflation Theory Implications for ET Visitations

Journal of the British Interplanetary Society, Vol 58, 2005.

http://www.ufoskeptic.org/JBIS.pdf

J. Deardorff, B. Haisch, B. Maccabee and H.E. Puthoff

 

As it happens, I know a couple of these scientists. They're not good friends or anything but we have crossed paths. I had lunch with one several times to discuss all of this.

 

In a sentence - it is argued that based on the newest theories emerging in physics, it makes sense to look for evidence of alien visitations, and to consider the best cases that are already on the books as possible candidates for such an event.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Robert Z

[M30USA]

Fair enough but you realize that is circular logic, right? It is also a faith-based argument which carries no logical weight.

 

 

 

I agree that there are some very impressive cases. However, the evidence for a mystery is far greater than the evidence for any particular explanation for that mystery. As for military cases, even the most liberal interpretation of the "encounters" would suggest that we are seeing robotic probes of some sort. And that makes more sense than the idea that we are seeing crafts that have physical beings inside. What's more, we would send robotic probes long before we would send people to some distant planet. And robots are infinitely more practical. That is why we ourselves are exploring the local planets robotically right now.

 

 

 

That is only evidence showing that a physical object was likely present. When correlated with eyewitness accounts involving direct observations, such as with pilots, obviously RADAR offers strong supporting evidence for the anecdotal claims.

 

 

 

Then your position is a religious one. For me it is all about the most logical interpretation of the best direct evidence available. But no matter how you slice it, were even one of the accounts of alien/angel/time traveling/transdimensional or whatever beings true, it would be the biggest news story in the history news. If there is a long history with these alleged visitors, then it is the biggest story in all of human history. That is undeniably true.

 

I view Scripture as a "lead" much like a detective or investigator uses. It's not proof, itself, but it can show you where to start looking so you don't waste time on fruitless ideas.

 

I'm afraid the UFO/ET subject will never be "proven" in the standard method we use for 2 reasons:

 

1) It is primarily spiritual in nature. Spiritual subjects elude proof. Even though UFOs/ETs can appear physically, it seems that this is not their primary state.

 

2) The ETs, themselves, do not want to be known. It therefore follows that, since they are incredibly more knowledgeable than us, they will not be detected if they don't want to. (I intentionally avoided describing them as "advanced" due to the evolutionary connotations of that word.)

[Robert Z]

Where do you come up with your interpretations? It sounds to me like your only source for describing these is scripture, but you point to modern accounts as evidence.

 

You can't have it both ways. You can't say the account itself is evidence but completely ignore the nature of the account.

 

And you keep avoiding many of my questions. Why? Is this a sermon or a discussion?

[M30USA]

Where do you come up with your interpretations? It sounds to me like your only source for describing these is scripture, but you point to modern accounts as evidence.

 

You can't have it both ways. You can't say the account itself is evidence but completely ignore the nature of the account.

 

And you keep avoiding many of my questions. Why? Is this a sermon or a discussion?

 

All of the following researchers have concluded that UFOs are not interstellar, but interdimensional; and that they are primarily spiritual, not physical (even though they clearly can materialize):

 

Dr. John Mack (Harvard)

Dr. J Allen Hynek (US Air Force)

Jacques Vallee, PhD (French mathematician and UFO expert)

Dr. David Jacobs (teaches the only collegiate UFO curriculum in USA at Temple University)

Dr. Chuck Missler

Dr. Barry Downing

Dr. Michael Heiser

 

Those are a few to start with. The funny thing is MOST of these people are atheists or agnostics--yet they all more or less conclude the same thing about UFOs. For example, Dr. J Allen Hynek, who was consulted by Steven Spielberg for his movie, recognized the spiritual nature of UFOs and even said they are "demonic in nature". For the record, I disagree that they are ALL demonic. I believe there are good and evil mixed.

Edited May 19, 2013 by M30USA

[Robert Z]

All of the following researchers have concluded that UFOs are not interstellar, but interdimensional; and that they are primarily spiritual, not physical (even though they clearly can materialize):

 

Dr. John Mack (Harvard)

Dr. J Allen Hynek (US Air Force)

Jacques Vallee, PhD (French mathematician and UFO expert)

Dr. David Jacobs (teaches the only collegiate UFO curriculum in USA at Temple University)

Dr. Chuck Missler

Dr. Barry Downing

Dr. Michael Heiser

 

Those are a few to start with. The funny thing is MOST of these people are atheists or agnostics--yet they all more or less conclude the same thing about UFOs. For example, Dr. J Allen Hynek, who was consulted by Steven Spielberg for his movie, recognized the spiritual nature of UFOs and even said they are "demonic in nature". For the record, I disagree that they are ALL demonic. I believe there are good and evil mixed.

 

Near the end of his life, Hynek thought they might be transdimensional. He never said anything about being spiritual. That is a blatant misrepresentation of what he said. Neither Vallee nor Mack took a spiritual spin on this either. I don't know about all of the others but Downing is Priest, right?

 

I would need to see an original source to believe any off this. I have followed Hynek, Vallee, and Mack for a long time and never heard about any talk of spirituality.

 

Vallee is famous for a paper showing that UFO sightings tend to follow sidereal time - meaning that the source of the trajectories is tending to a common point the sky. This is consistent with space ships, not spirits.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Robert Z

[M30USA]

Near the end of his life, Hynek thought they might be transdimensional. He never said anything about being spiritual. That is a blatant misrepresentation of what he said. Neither Vallee nor Mack took a spiritual spin on this either. I don't know about all of the others but Downing is Priest, right?

 

I would need to see an original source to believe any off this. I have followed Hynek, Vallee, and Mack for a long time and never heard about any talk of spirituality.

 

Vallee is famous for a paper showing that UFO sightings tend to follow sidereal time - meaning that the source of the trajectories is tending to a common point the sky. This is consistent with space ships, not spirits.

 

Hynek is quoted as saying UFOs are "demonic in nature". This implies a spiritual connection.

 

Vallee is quoted as saying that UFOs are engaging in a "worldwide subliminal seduction" where they intend to change people's beliefs. This implies spirituality.

 

Mack clearly made known his research about the profound spiritual effects these encounters have on people. The irony is that he was an atheist and yet he was ridiculed for delving into spiritual matters by his colleagues at Harvard.

[TheFinalWord]

Well I see nothing has changed here

 

...not sure about you guys, but I was pretty skeptical of aliens before this video...