Is Spanking Wrong?

[Forever Learning]

For my kids, there has been a very occasional swat on the behind, and it did wonders for their attitude for a long, long time. But all kids are different.

[Nyla]

Nyla, I'm a bit confused. You don't want children so I'm uncertain why this is an issue for you.

 

As far as myself, none of us were spanked or physically disciplined in any manner. All four of us have grown up with successful careers where the lowest income level is in the six figures. We're also married, where not everyone has kids.

 

We don't spank our oldest who's a toddler. Our second is an infant who also won't be spanked anytime in his life. There's no need for it. It's incredibly easy to stay ahead of children and explain things in terms they understand.

 

It's an issue for me because my therapist thinks that my views are shaped by what I have shared with her. I don't agree with her, so I was wondering what LS members thought about spanking. It appears that those who agree with spanking are the ones who were physically disciplined and those who were not spanked think that spanking is not necessary.

 

Maybe my therapist was right?

[TaraMaiden]

Well there's a flaw right there, because my parents were liberal with their hands.

They grew up in an era when smacking was both acceptable and expected.

I had plenty of smacks and so did my brothers....

[dirtysweet]

Spanking is okay for adults in the bedroom

 

But imo it's not okay to spank kids. Now one swat to the bottom if, say, your kid runs into the street when a car is coming is different than pulling their pants down and hitting them repeatedly.

 

Spanking is something parents argue about a lot with each other. Personally I don't believe in it. And if you understand Behavior Mod you'll get why your therapist disagrees with it too.

 

A child gets no benefits from corporal punishment. This has been studied. The child doesn't learn why what they did is bad, they just learn they get hit for it. In fact if you swat an animal like this, they will end up turning on you. So it's no different for kids---they might become scared of you, and who wants their own child to be afraid of them?

 

A child will do what you say if you hit them, but only out of fear.

 

Spanking is not illegal in my state except if you use an object other than your hands and it bruises.

 

Let me mention I have no children, and I was spanked by my mom as a child. I don't consider it abuse, I just would rather take a different route when I have children.

Edited May 16, 2013 by dirtysweet

[Feelin Frisky]

It should go no further than a rap on the back of the hand. Spanking crosses the line into self indulgent vengefulness. I spent an hour before writing about the hurt I suffered as a child but I lost it all because I stepped away and I got the message about a token expiring. I was furious. So, the short version is if I felt I had to spank my child it would be because I wasn't doin a good enough job connecting with him or her. My parents were kids when they had me and by age 5 I had four younger sibs. Of course I got spanked because I was neglected. I don't see my brother in law ever hitting his two kids, he and my sister have relationships with them where reason rules and they stay connected. I don't know what that is like. I would be a good dad now but maybe not if I had followed my parents route and had a bunch of kids in my 20's.

[tbf]

It's an issue for me because my therapist thinks that my views are shaped by what I have shared with her. I don't agree with her, so I was wondering what LS members thought about spanking. It appears that those who agree with spanking are the ones who were physically disciplined and those who were not spanked think that spanking is not necessary.

 

Maybe my therapist was right?

Let's work our way through this. You know that the abuse traumatized you. It taught you to fear but did it teach you to critically think your way through it? Note how you're asking for opinions even though the answer should be obvious to you. In some ways, you're still afraid, looking for black/white right/wrong answers from others.

 

Without the fear of physical violence and pain, where your parents clearly explained why, where there were reasonable consequences to fit the erroneous actions, would you be able to critically think your way through this? If you notice, the people who were hit, believed they deserved it. Strangely, as adults, many would be the first to scream "assault" if another adult struck them. So why don't children also have the same legal protections as adults? Do you feel that children deserve to be treated worse than pets or do you have feel that children are unformed human beings who also deserve respect?

[BetheButterfly]

I am currently seeing a therapist, partly to process the abuse I suffered in my childhood and learn how it affected me as an adult.

 

I was abused physically as a child, as well as verbally and emotionally. My mother was the culprit, but my father was just as bad because he never stopped her until I had a nervous breakdown at 19. I forgive my dad because I know he is a quiet sweetheart who was afraid of my mother. My therapist discusses the way I should have been disciplined as a kid and she says that spankings are never necessary. We disagree on this.

 

While I don't think abuse is acceptable, I do think spankings are just fine. My husband says that I think this way because of how I was raised, but I disagree since I am not advocating abuse. A slap on the butt is not the same as the kicks and bites I got from my mother. To be honest, I think kids these days have FAR TOO MUCH power. Parents cannot slap their children without fear of the law getting involved.

 

I know that culture often plays a role because all of my old classmates with Canadian parents were never spanked. In fact, the kids whose parents were Canadian were very disrespectful and rebellious. The children I grew up with, who also had immigrant parents were spanked and they were well behaved. I know that being hit kept me on the straight and narrow, until I had enough of the abuse and fled my parent's home at age 21. I will still being hit by them at that time and I was subjected to sexist rules, so I finally got fed up.

 

Too bad I was never good enough for my mom until I left home and it was too late the salvage a relationship. She likes to compliment me now, but I keep my distance since I do not feel emotionally safe with my mother.

 

What do the parents on LS think? Are my therapist and husband right or is spanking ok?

 

It is horrible how your Mom treated you. I am very sorry about that.

 

My Mom spanked my sisters and me as a last resort. She never beat us or insulted us. She also tried very hard not to discipline in anger which is super important. She always reminded us of the rule we broke and talked with us about why we had broken it. If she felt like there was a reasonable explanation, she didn't spank. She just lectured. When she did spank, she used a wooden spoon and swatted like twice.

 

For me, my issue wasn't the pain, cause it wasn't very painful. My issue was how I prided myself in being a "good girl" and I didn't like being in trouble with my Mom. I liked pleasing her and even today, it means a lot to me what she thinks. Her opinion matters more to me than the opinion of most other people.

 

When I was around 12 years old, the spankings stopped. Instead, consequences took the form of groundings, which were far more effective for me. I like doing things and consequences in the form of groundings from activities such as going to my best friend's house or not being able to watch my favorite show were enough to help me respect my parents' rules, even when I didn't agree.

 

When I have kids, I don't think I'm going to spank. It's not because I think spanking, when done without anger and malice, is bad. However, I do think groundings are more effective than spankings...

[BetheButterfly]

Physical discipline is only acceptable as a last resort in my book.

 

Agreed with this.

 

I hit my daughter ONCE in her 17 years: she called me a bitch in front of her friends because I said it was too late to ride her bike out. I slapped her mouth in front of everyone.

My Mom has never ever slapped any of her children (I've never called her a bitch though one of my sisters did once -the one with bipolar- and i lectured her about that... she called Mom and apologized.)

 

To me, slapping a person's face is a huge no-no and is physical abuse done in anger. Slapping is unacceptable, in my opinion. I think one of the reasons I think this way is because I've heard my Mom speak in horror of people slapping others.

 

When my sis called Mom a bitch, Mom cried. I was FURIOUS (I'm the eldest and am very protective of Mom.) I called her up after my Mom called me and told her "HOW DARE YOU CALL MOM A BITCH! Mom didn't raise us like that! She loves you and you know it..." (She called Mom a bitch after Mom called the police when she heard that this sister's husband threw her out of their house. Thank God, they are doing much better now and have been to counseling.) Even if I was there, I would not have resorted to violence.

 

The issue was that her husband called her a bitch Her husband used to verbally and physically abuse her and that damaged her psyche and she in turn used the bitch word on Mom. So basically, her throwing the word thrown at her by her husband at our Mom opened up the door for the family to see that not just was her husband physically abusing her -which she confessed when she told Mom about him throwing her out, and which is why Mom called the police, but was verbally abusing her as well. Thankfully, my Mom calling the police had a huge effect on her son-in-law and for years now he's not hurt my sister.

 

My job is to teach my kid how to survive in this world,

100 agreed

 

without a parent

Understood, even though I think that parents are very important even after their kids grow up too.

 

and the reality is there are many things which can get you hurt in this world if you don't learn respect.

True

 

Id rather she get smacked by her mom for using poor language and learn people WILL hurt you when you hurt them, because she could be taught that lesson of respect by someone with a lot less compassion than I.

Well, I am glad my Mom never slapped any of her daughters. There are other ways to teach respect and kindness than slapping.

 

Alot of kids don't have respect and don't think there should be consequences for their behavior which ultimately hurts the children.

Sad but true Edited May 16, 2013 by BetheButterfly

[BetheButterfly]

Yes. My feeling is that the use of physical punishment is the easy out. Too many parents don't want to put in the energy to preemptively and engagingly discipline their children. Too much work talking to them like sentient beings that learn.

 

That's my singular view anyway.

 

I think spanking is a taught way to discipline. My parents were spanked as kids. They grew up respecting authority, so they see spanking as being an acceptable last resort to disciplining kids.

 

In South Korea, physical punishment is I think still in the schools, and you know what? The kids are unbelievably respectful. I've tutored 2 South Korean children and I have to say they are extremely respectful, polite, and hard working... and nope I never had to discipline them.

 

I think they thought it interesting telling me about how they were disciplined, because frankly I was horrified. I didn't know what to say.

But yeah, I never had any problems with disrespect or disobedience from them while I tutored them. They are incredibly intelligent and superbly well-mannered. I did have to teach one of them not to do the bow thing. My explanation was it's not a part of American culture and since he's in the USA now, he doesn't need to do that.

[Nyla]

Let's work our way through this. You know that the abuse traumatized you. It taught you to fear but did it teach you to critically think your way through it? Note how you're asking for opinions even though the answer should be obvious to you. In some ways, you're still afraid, looking for black/white right/wrong answers from others.

 

Without the fear of physical violence and pain, where your parents clearly explained why, where there were reasonable consequences to fit the erroneous actions, would you be able to critically think your way through this? If you notice, the people who were hit, believed they deserved it. Strangely, as adults, many would be the first to scream "assault" if another adult struck them. So why don't children also have the same legal protections as adults? Do you feel that children deserve to be treated worse than pets or do you have feel that children are unformed human beings who also deserve respect?

 

I apologize for annoying you by posting about spanking. If the answers were "obvious" to me, I would not be posting about this issue.

 

I don't know what fear you are seeing because if I was truly afraid, I would be burying my feelings like I did for so many years.

 

Sometimes it isn't what you say, but how you say it. Thank you for your opinion.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Nyla

[pteromom]

When I have kids, I don't think I'm going to spank. It's not because I think spanking, when done without anger and malice, is bad. However, I do think groundings are more effective than spankings...

 

 

There are other methods to consider too. I am a big proponent of positive reinforcement of behaviors. Teach a child what you want them to do, make those things rewarding for them, and they will continue to do it through self-motivation. Rather than punishment, I focus on teaching. A child needs to know WHY something they are doing is wrong, and learn alternate things to do that aren't wrong. They need to learn how to put words to their feelings, so they can communicate without tantruming. They need to be heard and understood, just like the rest of us do.

 

I have only put my son in time-out twice in his life, when there was blatant disregarding of the known rules happening. I have never spanked him or grounded him or taken things away from him. And so far, he is an incredibly calm, rational, happy, and articulate boy.

 

Being a good parent takes effort and constant and consistent work. Spanking is lazy parenting IMO. It's taking the easy way out instead of REALLY thinking through the problem and finding a solution to it.

[pteromom]

SAnyone who is a parent should know that a child's brain is not developed enough that a discussion is is going to work.

 

Sorry, but I don't agree. I have discussed behavior, rules, and expectations with my child since he was under one, and discussion has always worked for us. He has a clear vision of what his role is in the family and what is expected of him, and there is no reason to hit him to force him to bend to my will.

 

And I disagree with there being a difference between spanking and abuse. If you walked up to another adult and started smacking them on the bottom or hand or face, you'd be charged with assault. Spanking may not be an extreme form of abuse, and it may still be a socially acceptable form of abuse, but it is still abuse.

[pteromom]

And Nyla, I was spanked, and I definitely do NOT believe in spanking.

 

I was also yelled at, and I do not believe in yelling.

 

And I was emotionally abused, and I do not believe in that either.

 

I learned a lot from my parents about how NOT to be.

[tbf]

I apologize for annoying you by posting about spanking. If the answers were "obvious" to me, I would not be posting about this issue.

 

I don't know what fear you are seeing because if I was truly afraid, I would be burying my feelings like I did for so many years.

 

Sometimes it isn't what you say, but how you say it. Thank you for your opinion.

My apologies if you felt that my post was rude or condescending. It wasn't intended to be so. It was intended to provide an alternate perspective, a different path to consider, rather than the harsh right and wrong or good and bad perspective.

[Silly_Girl]

I could never smack. My underlying argument with my then-husband is what we would do if our child was in trouble at nursery or school for violence..... "I'm going to use violence, to punish you, for being VIOLENT". Good one.

 

Also, I lost all respect for my parents for needing to use physical pain to discipline me. Neanderthal, even at 9 years old I clearly remember pitying them for not being more evolved (on that issue).

 

I've seen excellent results with body language, tone of voice, threats of punishment THEN following through. And so on. Spanking is unnecessary in my view.

[Treasa]

My mom popped me on the mouth maybe a handful of times at the most. And I assure you, I had it coming. She's human. She's not perfect.

 

That being said, MOST OF THE TIME my mom could control me with a single look. I knew what was right and what was wrong, and I didn't want to risk her ire.

 

I was a really, really good kid. My mom tells me that constantly. We get along amazingly.

[turnera]

Spanking your kid on the butt - through clothing - isn't going to scar them for life. Spoiling them rotten, on the other hand, practically ensures a spoiled, selfish adult will come out of them.

[TaraMaiden]

I trust you're not insinuating that if a child is NOT smacked, then that naturally means they're going to get spoiled....?

 

Surely not.....

 

There is of course, a middle ground.....

[Silly_Girl]

Spanking your kid on the butt - through clothing - isn't going to scar them for life.

 

What will it do? How does it have a positive effect, in your view?

[pteromom]

Spanking your kid on the butt - through clothing - isn't going to scar them for life. Spoiling them rotten, on the other hand, practically ensures a spoiled, selfish adult will come out of them.

 

Right - there are other options though. Is that the standard you give yourself for parenting? It's OK as long as it doesn't scar them for life?

 

Not spanking doesn't = spoiling. There are more effective ways to set and enforce expectations.

[veggirl]

I was spanked once as a child, I still remember it clear as day. My dad did it. I remember I couldn't even LOOK at him for days, I was humiliated by it. It was degrading and it made me feel so low. I remember my mom yelling at him for doing it, too. I will never spank a child.

 

The worst is parents who hit their kids for hitting other kids. Or hit their kid and then don't get why their kid is hitting someone else.

 

It shows kids that if I am in power over you, I can hit you if I don't like what you are doing. so why wouldn't an older sibling then start hitting a younger one, etc?

 

It's so backwards.

 

I was at a friends when I was 10 and their dad lined them up for spankings because he was pissed about SOMETHING. I was terrified. I ran home without my shoe because he was stepping on it lol. The looks on their faces...ugh....they were ages like 5-13.

[veggirl]

and seriously why are people pulling out the 2 extremes....there is a middle ground between hitting your kid and spoiling them. I wasn't spoiled but I also wasn't hit.

 

I find most people who defend spanking WERE spanked.

 

It's almost like they are maybe defending their parents decision. I don't know, I love my parents but even now thinking about the ONE time my dad spanked me...tbh if I had plans to see him tonight or something, I'd be cancelling! I feel gross just thinking about that situation.

[KyRose]

Well, it is like this for me. My husband is the youngest of 12 children. They were all spanked. Not beaten, not kicked and bitten, but every once in awhile, were spanked.

 

NONE of them is rebellious, a criminal, and they are all productive citizens and decent parents themselves.

 

I don't know. With 12, surely the PIL could not have just gotten lucky.

[turnera]

What will it do? How does it have a positive effect, in your view?

Mind, I am NOT talking about some parent who swats their kid every time the parent gets mad. I'm talking about a kid who deliberately breaks a rule he/she is given.

 

That said, it will help them understand that they aren't the center of the universe and that there WILL be consequences in their life if they choose to ignore rules. Teaching a child to respect rules/laws/consequences will allow them to feel safe and secure in this world they barely understand. Green light, cross the street; red light, stop and wait. Same with kids whose parents give them no rules - the kid never knows when he's doing something wrong or right, as the rules aren't clearly explained (bedtime at 8, veggies before dessert, homework done before games, etc.).

 

Unless you're rich enough to buy an island somewhere, you WILL have to live with lots of rules in the society in which you live.

[turnera]

Right - there are other options though. Is that the standard you give yourself for parenting? It's OK as long as it doesn't scar them for life?

 

Not spanking doesn't = spoiling. There are more effective ways to set and enforce expectations.

Not always.