Is Spanking Wrong?

[turnera]

I was spanked once as a child, I still remember it clear as day. My dad did it. I remember I couldn't even LOOK at him for days, I was humiliated by it.

I was spanked once, also. I still remember it. And I deserved it. And I knew it. Therefore, I wasn't humiliated. I understood it as a consequence of what I did and I never broke that rule again.

[amaysngrace]

I believe the only time to ever spank a child is when it is a matter of life or death.

 

I've spanked one child when he got away from my and ran into the street, my other son when he grabbed a knife when I was carving a turkey and my daughter never.

 

They were toddlers and they never did either one of those things again.

[Nyla]

I can count on one hand the times my father has ever hit me.

 

I still have tremendous love and respect for my dad.

 

When he was mad at me, he let me know without resorting to insults and abuse.

 

He was strict and sexist, but I understand that my father is simply old fashioned.

[turnera]

I was spanked once as a child, I still remember it clear as day. My dad did it. I remember I couldn't even LOOK at him for days, I was humiliated by it. It was degrading and it made me feel so low. I remember my mom yelling at him for doing it, too.

Two thoughts. Are you sure you weren't humiliated because you knew you did something wrong? A spanking is supposed to make you feel bad; that's the point.

 

And if your mom hadn't torn into your dad about it, I would suggest it wouldn't have occurred to you to turn what your DAD did into something bad, immoral, whatever. I think you would have felt shame at what YOU did to deserve it (as I did), and then you would have moved on from it and simply not done that thing again.

[turnera]

When he was mad at me, he let me know without resorting to insults and abuse.

That's the point. If you raise a child to know he will have a consequence for breaking a rule, and then he breaks the rule, and he gets the spanking as a consequence, unless he has another parent acting as veggi's did and confusing the issue, that child KNOWS that he CHOSE to break the rule and the spanking was valid (barring abuse of course).

 

Personally, I'd rather have the spanking, which stings for a minute, than to see my mom or dad disappointed in me. My DD22 said the same thing. Let me take my punishment and let's get it over with so we can move on and be ok with each other.

[Nyla]

You are so right, Turnera. My father liked to make me stay in my room if I did something wrong or take away television. I was a big reader, so he would make sure I didn't have access to books while I was being disciplined.

[pteromom]

That said, it will help them understand that they aren't the center of the universe and that there WILL be consequences in their life if they choose to ignore rules. Teaching a child to respect rules/laws/consequences will allow them to feel safe and secure in this world they barely understand. Green light, cross the street; red light, stop and wait. Same with kids whose parents give them no rules - the kid never knows when he's doing something wrong or right, as the rules aren't clearly explained (bedtime at 8, veggies before dessert, homework done before games, etc.).

 

Yes, but spanking isn't a realistic consequence. If the point is to teach them that there are consequences when you ignore rules, then use a logical consequence instead.

 

Playing games before homework? The games are taken away as an option.

Crossing the street on a red light? You have to hold mom's hand in the street... even if you are 13.

Staying up too late? The bedtime routine starts earlier; he loses the light or TV out of his room; he has to get up earlier.

Dessert before veggies? No dessert then.

 

There are always natural consequences you can use to make the point about the reason for rules.

 

And if you use NATURAL consequences, the child will transition into thinking about consequences for him/herself as they grow up. Spanking teaches nothing except "I must listen or I will be hit", which does not transition into adult situations at all.

[pteromom]

Well, it is like this for me. My husband is the youngest of 12 children. They were all spanked. Not beaten, not kicked and bitten, but every once in awhile, were spanked.

 

NONE of them is rebellious, a criminal, and they are all productive citizens and decent parents themselves.

 

I don't know. With 12, surely the PIL could not have just gotten lucky.

 

Most of us from our generation were spanked. And most of us turned out OK. This does not mean that spanking is the best option. Just like most of us didn't sit in car seats, but most of us are OK. That doesn't mean I will let my child lie in the back of a station wagon like I did.

 

As we learn better, we do better.

[turnera]

That's a valid point, but it doesn't negate the point that an occasional spanking isn't going to scar a child for life, without some OTHER issue going on.

[Silly_Girl]

Mind, I am NOT talking about some parent who swats their kid every time the parent gets mad. I'm talking about a kid who deliberately breaks a rule he/she is given.

 

That said, it will help them understand that they aren't the center of the universe and that there WILL be consequences in their life if they choose to ignore rules. Teaching a child to respect rules/laws/consequences will allow them to feel safe and secure in this world they barely understand. Green light, cross the street; red light, stop and wait. Same with kids whose parents give them no rules - the kid never knows when he's doing something wrong or right, as the rules aren't clearly explained (bedtime at 8, veggies before dessert, homework done before games, etc.).

 

Unless you're rich enough to buy an island somewhere, you WILL have to live with lots of rules in the society in which you live.

 

I was a very strict mum - if boundaries were being crossed, and if bad behaviour was wilful. I'm a big softy, until I'm pushed.

 

It's not at all about ignoring rules or breaching code. It's about the methods available to discipline. I don't see any benefits - AT ALL - in physical punishment.

 

My sister was a nightmare. She got a LOT of smacking. Her son is equally troublesome, he is never smacked. It's a fundamental choice we make. I'd be glad to know why smacking is preferable. Or is equally effective.

[Silly_Girl]

 

Personally, I'd rather have the spanking, which stings for a minute, than to see my mom or dad disappointed in me. My DD22 said the same thing. Let me take my punishment and let's get it over with so we can move on and be ok with each other.

 

Same! I preferred smacking to the guilt. Quicker. Less emotional.

 

Which leads me to think that reasoning and talking with a child is more likely to impact on their choices than a smack.

[Silly_Girl]

Most of us from our generation were spanked. And most of us turned out OK. This does not mean that spanking is the best option. Just like most of us didn't sit in car seats, but most of us are OK. That doesn't mean I will let my child lie in the back of a station wagon like I did.

 

As we learn better, we do better.

 

Agree! My ex-H used to say 'never did me any harm' a lot. We fell out massively about smacking. And then whether to put a radiator in the bathroom for baby's bathtime. And then smoking around children....

[turnera]

Same! I preferred smacking to the guilt. Quicker. Less emotional.

 

Which leads me to think that reasoning and talking with a child is more likely to impact on their choices than a smack.

Or leave them neurotic about guilt, like me.

[HokeyReligions]

My children are exceptionally well behaved and disciplined. 5 and 7 years old. Never had to hit. Spanking is not needed to reinforce the discussion. I've used time-outs with great success and sometimes some close body restraint (those were the bad times )

 

It's a good thing my very young children and I didn't know that they could be disciplined by reasoning and discussion alone.

 

Here's a definate difference. I wouod never restrain my kids seatbelts yes but even during a spanking they knew they could breakaway whereas if they were restrained they would lose all sense of having any control over themselves.

 

If parents don't want to spank that's fine. But I can get just as irate over anyone telling me NOT to spank as a parent can get over someone telling them TO spank.

[FitChick]

I got spanked as a kid. Most of the time I deserved it.

[Ross MwcFan]

Yup, child abuse/violence towards children is wrong.

 

If physical abuse towards an adult is wrong, then how can it not be wrong towards a child? It's much worse.

[Ross MwcFan]

I got spanked as a kid. Most of the time I deserved it.

 

Look at what they've done to you.

[soccerrprp]

I got spanked as a kid. Most of the time I deserved it.

 

You deserved discipline, correction, not physically hit. My father NEVER hit and his punishments were the worst and much more effective than my mother's fleeting and violent method. I wonder how a career army soldier comes up with a non-violent form of punishment in a time when everyone is told your children should be "whacked" and view that as a better alternative method of correction?

 

I was spanked, beaten as a child and I turned out okay, in fact, more than okay, but that does not stop my mother from feeling guilty about that period and often admits that during those days no one spoke of alternative ways to discipline. It is a fact that spanking is not needed for effective correction and discipline of children, why not choose that method?

 

Why insist on using physical violence, if not needed. Again, I'm going to say it, "violence begets violence." Children learn that hitting is appropriate or less adverse to when they are disciplined in this way.

 

People have this terrible habit of saying things like, ...."well that's why kids today are spoiled rotten, or unruly, etc." Nonsense. It's because they are not being disciplined. Not b/c they are not being hit.

 

Ugh.

Edited May 17, 2013 by soccerrprp

[turnera]

"Everyone" is told? meh

[KyRose]

Most of us from our generation were spanked. And most of us turned out OK. This does not mean that spanking is the best option. Just like most of us didn't sit in car seats, but most of us are OK. That doesn't mean I will let my child lie in the back of a station wagon like I did.

 

As we learn better, we do better.

 

I don't equate car seat usage to spanking, but if that is all you've got, then okay.

 

I was just saying that with 12 kids, surely one of them would hate the parent or turn out "bad" if all spanking is child abuse, right? Odds-wise.

[dreamingoftigers]

 

The only time I swatted my kids - or anyone else's kids is if they were in immediate danger.

 

You hit other people's kids?

 

If you did that to my kid, you'd find yourself in immediate danger!

 

You sure wouldn't do it twice....

 

Putting someone over my knee who just spanked my child would be the only time I would approve of a spanking.

 

Edit: or one for me from someone fun. But never you mind about that!

[dreamingoftigers]

NO i did not "hit" other peoples kids but I certainty disciplined them if they needed it. I guess now I would just call the police and get child protectve services involved and claim the parents were neglecting their kids. Now tell me if your kid was seriously misbehaving and I took their arm to remove something they shouldn't have or be throwing and swatted their behind if they had a fit over it and the incident be done, or get child welfare involved where you would end up on their radar wit a permanent record of possible neglect or abuse which would you prefer? I have also stepped in when I saw a child being too harshly punished and the parent obviously "losing it" trying to control theit kid.

 

LOL refusing to slap a kid's butt doesn't get child-welfare involved.

 

But yes, being aggressive and slapping a kid on the butt to get them to calm down would get some outside involvement. For sure.

 

Are you okay?

[Nyla]

I don't understand the idea that it is okay to hit a stranger's child.

 

Hell, I don't even hit two of my nieces and my brother has given me permission to do so. I just talk to them when they misbehave. Those two girls already have their parents and extended family hitting them. They don't need it from me.

 

With my third niece, my SIL has told me that she's fine with me scolding her child. I would never do so otherwise. When my niece was throwing a tantrum on our last visit, I simply picked her up and said: "Look at me. We DO NOT scream and cry just because we don't get our way, so stop it right now please. I love you. Go sit and watch tv."

 

My niece calmed right down and sat in her toddler chair as I asked. No hitting or shouting needed.

 

When I was a kid, the mere threat of being hit was enough for me to stop whatever nonsense I was doing.

[dreamingoftigers]

It's an issue for me because my therapist thinks that my views are shaped by what I have shared with her. I don't agree with her, so I was wondering what LS members thought about spanking. It appears that those who agree with spanking are the ones who were physically disciplined and those who were not spanked think that spanking is not necessary.

 

Maybe my therapist was right?

 

I was physically disciplined and I find it ridiculous.

My husband was severely shamed and physically disciplined.

We do not ascribe to it whatsoever.

 

He and I have not physically disciplined our child.

 

I do not believe that it in any way teaches "respect." If you have to hit someone to get them to "Respect" you, then you don't deserve that respect. It isn't respect, it's fear of being hit. Which isn't something a child should grow up with. Also, it is so bizarre that people say "spanking isn't the same as hitting." Excuse me? What separates the two? Location. That's it. Probably one of the most ridiculous arguments I have ever heard.

 

We talk about choices and I give her the chance to correct her behaviour. If she doesn't or it escalates, she gets a timeout. If she's just upset about whatever consequence, I give her the option to "take a break" instead. With a break, she can go into her room and relax, lie on her bed, read a book (whatever) until she is calm. With a timeout, it's on the timeout chair until the timer goes and then we discuss why she's in timeout and let her know that we love her.

 

It's never gone past that. She turns four this week. She has had ONE (yes, one) severe tantrum EVER. She sat in timeout until it was over.

 

It was also VERY LATE and she had been spending a considerable amount of time with her sitter that week because my husband and I both had finals.

 

Timeouts are very effective.

 

She is happy, cheerful, so positive and NOT a behavioural problem. She is stubborn, but reasonable (even at almost 4). She knows she has to earn things, she loves doing small chores and helping. And sharing. And cuddling.

She's also very bright and very keen to learn. She's started doing math on her fingers and can add to ten.

 

Why in the world would I mess any of our bond up to smack her on the butt and confuse the heck out of her?

 

She has been spanked once, by me.

 

Here were the circumstances: she heard about spanking at dayhome. One of the other kids asked another kid when they were playing house "do you want a spanking?" and they acted it out. My daughter thought it was hilarious to see the one kid fake crying. So she came up to me and asked, "Mommy can I have a spank?" and laid down on me.

 

The dayhome provider and I laughed and I said, "no honey, Mommy doesn't give you spanks." And she actually insisted, "please!" etc.

I told her that she could have a little one if she really, really wanted to. And to see what it was like and that she wasn't going to get another one. She gave the go-ahead. I gave her the lightest tap on the butt in history. Just enough to register that there was a smack on it, not even enough that it would've reddened if she had her pants down.

 

She burst into tears and decided that she didn't like spanks at all.

Honestly, I think it causes some kind of shame aside from the physical effects. Just seeing her reaction from a spank she wanted made me wonder what, exactly, the Hell was wrong with my parents to do that to me whenever they deemed I had crossed some line that often wasn't even explained to me.

[ThaWholigan]

Ahh, the old spanking argument .

 

I was spanked a few times - once I got the belt. Don't think it harmed me at all - however, I wouldn't like to do it to my children at all. I saw a vid on facebook of a guy whipping his daughters with a cable wire for twerking in church and posting it on facebook. Even with my experiences, I thought it was extremely excessive - he put a hurtin on them

 

I'm more like my father - he's never really hit any of his kids. Don't really think you need to hit kids - it's a last resort kind of discipline.

Edited May 20, 2013 by ThaWholigan