Is Spanking Wrong?

[Spark1111]

The first time I read that it was in the book, Baby and Child Care, published in 1946 by Dr. Benjamin Spock, and it remained controversial well into the 1970s.

 

I'm certain he wasn't the first to discount physical punishment but he may have been the most famous to do so.

 

With 1000s of child studies since, most experts in children's services agree and I hope some come to post here soon.

 

what may be arrogant is to think how one raises their child is the best and only way to do so when there is so much education out there on how to help foster a happy, confidant child who imposes their own limits over time without harsh treatment of any sort.

[Nyla]

You'd be surprised how many social workers spank their kids.

[Janesays]

Well, depends on your definition of 'wrong.' Do you think it's right or wrong to physically hurt something smaller and weaker than yourself?

 

That answer it different for everyone. Everyone ultimately defines their own morality.

 

With that said, moral arguments aside, I don't have a problem with spanking because it might be 'morally wrong.' I have a problem with it because it is a proven fact that it DOESN'T WORK for deterring bad behavior. Physical punishment isn't likely to work with animals, children, or even grown adults. So why do it?

[janedoe67]

Well, depends on your definition of 'wrong.' Do you think it's right or wrong to physically hurt something smaller and weaker than yourself?

 

That answer it different for everyone. Everyone ultimately defines their own morality.

 

With that said, moral arguments aside, I don't have a problem with spanking because it might be 'morally wrong.' I have a problem with it because it is a proven fact that it DOESN'T WORK for deterring bad behavior. Physical punishment isn't likely to work with animals, children, or even grown adults. So why do it?

 

nah....that question isn't loaded at all...

 

I see nothing wrong with giving a child a consequence about which they have been warned in a controlled and loving way when they exhibit repeated defiance.

[Silly_Girl]

Simply not true in anyway shape or form.

 

Spanking absolutely works in deterring bad behavior. I remember not doing a lot of things when I was younger because I didnt want to get spanked. In fact my parents were not hard enough on me they should have really beat my ass a few more time than they did.

 

Another example is my friend Rob, he knocks his two boys on the head with a knuckle. Its funny because he started doing it when they were about 4 and he really let them have it. He probably did it 2 or 3 times and ever since then he hasnt touched them. All he has to do is show them the knuckle when they are acting up and they instantly chill the hell out.

 

Its awesome when idiot parents that dont spank ask him how he raised his kids to be so well mannered. He tells them "the trick is to hit them with the knuckle hard enough to slightly crack the skull but not hard enough to do brain damage". We laugh when the idiots get offended and walk off.

 

Excellent! Works especially well when they do it to another kid at school and wonder why they've been suspended

[Silly_Girl]

nah....that question isn't loaded at all...

 

I see nothing wrong with giving a child a consequence about which they have been warned in a controlled and loving way when they exhibit repeated defiance.

 

"She smacked her son in a loving manner..."

 

I don't see it.

[janedoe67]

I've never smacked my son.

 

"She lovingly allowed her son to run rampant in the restaurant and with love told the second grade teacher that HER son never did anything wrong and it much be the teacher."

 

The above would be a gross exaggeration (sometimes) and a completely unfair and sarcastic way for me to give a backhanded slam to someone who doesn't discipline their kid the way I think they should. And I'd probably get called on it - as I should because A) it isn;t my business how someone else raises their child and B) my contempt would be very clear.

 

 

That is what the hitting and smacking comments are like. It's like those church people I used to know who, when talking about Harry Potter, look at you over their glasses, cluck their tongues, and say, "Well, I guess if YOU think it's okay to expose YOUR children to that....."

 

Spanking is a personal decision that a parent should not be denigrated for. Just like homeschooling, "unschooling," time outs, etc.

[Janesays]

Simply not true in anyway shape or form.

 

Spanking absolutely works in deterring bad behavior. I remember not doing a lot of things when I was younger because I didnt want to get spanked. In fact my parents were not hard enough on me they should have really beat my ass a few more time than they did.

 

 

Were you ever spanked for lying?

 

So you are saying after being spanked one time you NEVER told a lie again in your life?

 

Spanked for disrespect?

 

Never again was disrespectful again to ANYONE in your entire life?

 

Screaming? Breaking things? Running around the house? Forgetting your chores?

 

Get spanked for hitting a sibling?

 

Never laid a hand on another human being again in your life?

 

Well, we all know that is a lie since you're talking about hitting children now. Guess the spanking didn't work that much after all, eh?

 

I work with behavior modification. That is my job. It is what I do. We are totally unemotional with our work. Our job is to modify certain behavior patterns...sometimes by any mean necessary. We have TRIED physical punishment. It almost NEVER works.

 

The purpose of a punishment is to PREVENT bad behavior in the FUTURE. If, after applying the punishment, the subject goes on to REPEAT said behavior in any way, shape, or form, it is safe to conclude that the punishment DID NOT WORK.

 

The only thing physical punishments do is make the person who administered the punishment feel good about themselves as they took action. They rarely ever deter the behavior.

 

Their are better, more effective, lasting ways to deter bad behavior.

 

Again, I am Ethologist by profession. This is what I DO for a living. I have participated in and written studies about this very subject.

 

Usually physical punishments merely desensitize the subject to the punishment rather than curb the unwanted behavior.

[Janesays]

 

Another example is my friend Rob, he knocks his two boys on the head with a knuckle. Its funny because he started doing it when they were about 4 and he really let them have it. He probably did it 2 or 3 times and ever since then he hasnt touched them. All he has to do is show them the knuckle when they are acting up and they instantly chill the hell out.

 

That hardly proves your point.

 

However, it proves mine perfectly. If the 'knuckle' had 'worked,' he would not STILL need to be threatening them because they would not be acting up. If the punishment had deterred the acting up, they would be behaving optimally without the knuckle being used as a constant reminder. If your parenting goal is to be able to INTERRUPT bad behavior when it occurs, then I guess your knuckle example would be a good thing to do.

 

If your goal was to make it so your children DID NOT act up, thus never NEEDING a 'threatening knuckle' because they were behaving optimally to begin with, the knuckle is NOT GOING TO WORK as good ol' Rob just demonstrated for us.

[Minnie09]

It doesn't work. It makes them aggressive. It's hypocritical. That's all I need to know in order to not spank my kid. Makes the decision easy. I don't want to be a hypocrite who says he's not allowed to be violent and a bully to other kids, while I spank him. Nonsense. Plus I don't want to physically hurt him. Knuckles on the head? Please.*

 

Plus I want him to understand why something isn't acceptable and follow rules because he understands where I'm coming from. But as I said, the hypocritical aspect of spanking is just mind blowing. Great role modeling. Kinda like the conservative church goers who cherish their 10 commandments, one of which being you shall not murder, and then being a gun lobbyist at the same time. I don't get it.

[Silly_Girl]

I've never smacked my son.

 

"She lovingly allowed her son to run rampant in the restaurant and with love told the second grade teacher that HER son never did anything wrong and it much be the teacher."

 

The above would be a gross exaggeration (sometimes) and a completely unfair and sarcastic way for me to give a backhanded slam to someone who doesn't discipline their kid the way I think they should. And I'd probably get called on it - as I should because A) it isn;t my business how someone else raises their child and B) my contempt would be very clear.

 

 

That is what the hitting and smacking comments are like. It's like those church people I used to know who, when talking about Harry Potter, look at you over their glasses, cluck their tongues, and say, "Well, I guess if YOU think it's okay to expose YOUR children to that....."

 

Spanking is a personal decision that a parent should not be denigrated for. Just like homeschooling, "unschooling," time outs, etc.

 

I hear where you're coming from. I'm happy to state that I believe smacking is wrong, and is bad parenting. I feel that way about other aspects of parenting too. I don't consider it an insult to anyone to take that stance, it's just my belief. Perhaps I haven't been exposed to enough different experiences to have a more rounded view, but for now I'm happy with how I feel.

[Spark1111]

Bullies are made......from parents that dont spank their kids.

 

No, they are made by parents who equally overindulge and threaten as a form of control.

 

Poor parenting creates bullies.

[Spark1111]

Simply not true in anyway shape or form.

 

Spanking absolutely works in deterring bad behavior. I remember not doing a lot of things when I was younger because I didnt want to get spanked. In fact my parents were not hard enough on me they should have really beat my ass a few more time than they did.

 

Another example is my friend Rob, he knocks his two boys on the head with a knuckle. Its funny because he started doing it when they were about 4 and he really let them have it. He probably did it 2 or 3 times and ever since then he hasnt touched them. All he has to do is show them the knuckle when they are acting up and they instantly chill the hell out.

 

Its awesome when idiot parents that dont spank ask him how he raised his kids to be so well mannered. He tells them "the trick is to hit them with the knuckle hard enough to slightly crack the skull but not hard enough to do brain damage". We laugh when the idiots get offended and walk off.

 

The example of your friend proved my point. Thank you!

 

He CONTROLS his children by fear of possible pain AND fear of him.

 

When they no longer fear him, or he is not around to threaten a menacing knuckle, I predict they will not behave as well as they do right now.

[Spark1111]

I've never smacked my son.

 

"She lovingly allowed her son to run rampant in the restaurant and with love told the second grade teacher that HER son never did anything wrong and it much be the teacher."

 

The above would be a gross exaggeration (sometimes) and a completely unfair and sarcastic way for me to give a backhanded slam to someone who doesn't discipline their kid the way I think they should. And I'd probably get called on it - as I should because A) it isn;t my business how someone else raises their child and B) my contempt would be very clear.

 

 

That is what the hitting and smacking comments are like. It's like those church people I used to know who, when talking about Harry Potter, look at you over their glasses, cluck their tongues, and say, "Well, I guess if YOU think it's okay to expose YOUR children to that....."

 

Spanking is a personal decision that a parent should not be denigrated for. Just like homeschooling, "unschooling," time outs, etc.

 

I disagree. I have no issues with home schooling, time outs, denying tv, sport, etc. as a consequence for an action that requires discipline.

 

But spanking, to me, is about control, and to a lesser extent, ignorance, NOT age-appropriate discipline. It sends the message that I'm bigger and stronger, I hit harder, and I will control you through fear.

 

It doesn't work and can have lifelong ramifications.

[Janesays]

This is what happens when women get a voice...........rmfe

 

BTW, you are not very good at your job if that is truly what you believe. Im done arguing with the wall. (No offense to walls)

 

Now where is my belt.........

 

I am excellent at my job. Thank you.

 

And this isn't what I "believe." It is what I have seen with my own eyes, in a multitude of different studies and experiments beginning with research that is likely older than you are and has been replicated by other scientists over the years.

 

I am a scientist. It is not my job to make moral arguments or to speculate my beliefs. It is my job to look at the evidence before me. And the evidence supports that physical punishment can be used to interrupt a negative behavior that is already taking place, but rarely STOPS bad behaviour from occuring in the future.

 

You have seen that I am(and thousands of other scientists) correct with your own eyes when you observed you buddy Rob with his children. You ADMIT that they still act up. He can stop them from acting up by threatening them. But ultimately, they are still behaving badly. He did not teach them not to act up in the first place. You have seen this with your own eyes and yet you choose to believe that violence has someone still worked. That baffles me.

 

I would not be very good at my job if that was MY definition of 'working.' Likely I'd be laughed right out of the lab and I'd be slinging burgers by now.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Janesays

[Ripnet]

I do not believe that the crime and problems are due to dropping spanking. I think there are a bunch of reasons for it...

 

- kids don't have any responsibility these days. In the old days, they had to get up and help their parents with the farm or the dishes or whatever. Now, they just play and wait for stuff to come to them.

- .

 

My 9 year old niece has chores which she get allowance for, it really isn't much. Washing dishes, cleaning the bathroom etc Spanking never works and never worked for me. No matter how hard he hit me I do something over again or find something new. Because I didn't get much attention from my parents spanking did. At least he was paying attention to me so I linked him hitting me with caring enough to spend time with me although it wasn't a good one. why is it acceptable hit chilren but not adults? Many adults do bad things maybe they need a good spanking too! Spanking teaches violence when things don't work the way you want it to. Teaching kids what they did was bad and what the punishment should be is a better way. Maybe no tv for a week or they need to be grounded there are many other way to teach your kids spanking does more harm than any good.

[Janesays]

You should be slinging burgers instead..............and you are 100% wrong about my friend Robs kids.....I wont go into why because it obviously wont do any good since you are so close minded.

 

Have a great week.

 

I only went by what YOU said. It is the sign of a weak mind when one makes claims, but lacks the balls to back them up. Too bad you can't just hit me untiI i agree with you like you do to kids, eh? A knuckle to the skull is the only way some people know how to argue.

[Silly_Girl]

Funny how hitting minors who are (probably) smaller than ourselves and have no recourse is okay, but hitting our partner or our parents is socially unacceptable. Hmm.

[GorillaTheater]

Funny how hitting minors who are (probably) smaller than ourselves and have no recourse is okay, but hitting our partner or our parents is socially unacceptable. Hmm.

 

Depends. My wife likes being spanked every now and then.

[TG4MJ]

Corporal punishment was a regular thing for me as a child. I like what someone said about cultural differences because I come from a mexican family and in that culture, beating your child is the solution to EVERYTHING. Didn't get passing grades ? BELT TIME! Didn't turn a light off in a room after leaving it ? BELT TIME! Named called your sibling ? BELT TIME ! Spilled soda by accident ? BELT TIME ! Had to go to the bathroom or get thirsty during church ? BELT TIME ! and of course my personal favorite, got swatted at school ? BELT HIM AGAIN TO MAKE SURE HE GOT THE POINT ! No concept of long term psychological damage, no concept of force continuum (as a few people mentioned here, other measures should be taken for bad behavior first and it should be an absolute last resort). They even went as far as to show me these f***ed up family movies about kids with bad streaks and explaining to me that the reason they spank me is because they love me and if they don't spank me I might end up like that. The one I remember most was where Ricky Shroder played an abusive older brother and the younger brother ended up blasting him in the end. I remember not wanting to watch about half way in but my parents forcing me to do it because they wanted to get the point across on why they spank me.

 

They both came from families that used corporal punishment as well and I noticed that most if not all parents who endorse spankings were hit as children themselves, often using this fact as a pass for their belief in corporal punishment. As far as I'm concerned, all they did was condition me to believe that if someone upsets you, it is acceptable to respond with violence. It also desensitizes them to violence. By the time I was a teenager I developed a creepy reputation for not being affected by violent situations the way any normal person would not because I was fascinated by violence, but because it just didn't bother me. To this day, anytime my violent streak is brought up by my family I simply point out how what I did to my victims for upsetting me is no different than what my parents did to me when I upset them. The only difference is that I was a small and defenseless child, the guys I real with the steel with, were grown men. Needless to say, though they won't admit it, I feel for the first time in over twenty years, they are starting to have second thoughts about their disciplinary skills as parents.

 

To those of you who have kids and are in favor of hitting your kids anytime they mess up, is the possibility of them growing up to be like me something you're willing to risk ? If it happens is it something you want to live with ? Just my two cents on the matter.

[John316C]

yes, corporal punishment is abusive. if this kind of abuse has affected your life, HOW can anyone say its not - they can't. some people depending on their inherent genetic personality disposition react differently, however others will react negatively.

 

The Bomb in the Brain Part 1 - The True Roots of Human Violence

 

The Bomb in the Brain Part 2 - The Freedomain Radio Interview with Dr Felitti

 

The Bomb in the Brain Part 3 - The Biology of Violence: The Effects of Child Abuse

 

The Bomb in the Brain Part 4 - The Death of Reason - The Effects of Child Abuse

 

The Bomb in the Brain Part 5 - A Postscript and Prescription

Edited July 30, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Urls deleted as non productive to the topic

[KathyM]

I haven't read the whole thread, but your therapist and husband are right. Spanking is not a good way to parent. It teaches children that violence is the way to control someone. And it makes them more prone to act out. The very rare times I gave one of my kids a swat on the behind, they became physically aggressive with their brothers or their pets for a couple of weeks afterwards. Not a good plan to hit your children. I would recommend time out or withdrawal of privileges, depending on the age of the child. And having a positive reinforcement plan in place to reward good behavior.

[Nyla]

This is one of the reasons I am not having kids. Besides being too emotionally damaged to be a good mother, my husband and I would never agree on how to raise children. I would want to spank my kids if talking and taking away privileges did not work, while my husband thinks any kind of hitting is wrong.

[KathyM]

This is one of the reasons I am not having kids. Besides being too emotionally damaged to be a good mother, my husband and I would never agree on how to raise children. I would want to spank my kids if talking and taking away privileges did not work, while my husband thinks any kind of hitting is wrong.

It's good that you're getting counseling for your issues associated with the abuse you suffered. If you ever do consider becoming parents, it would also be a good idea to go to couple's counseling with your husband to work out your differences on parenting before you decide to become parents. A lot of marital conflict is the result of differences in parenting styles, and disciplining children is high on the list of differences that can cause conflict.

[Nyla]

I already said we are not having babies. We are childfree.