Letting Wife Take Over Initiation of Sex

[Untouchable_Fire]

No, she likes that we are comfortable enough that we can just be naked around each other. I like that too, it's just lately I've been uncomfortable with it (because of the incel). She has a poor body image. No matter how much I tell her she's beautiful or she looks good, she doesn't believe it. Certainly that's contributing to her low desire for sex. And it's a big reason why she wanted the open marriage, to prove to herself that she was desirable.

I don't doubt that she does want to have sex on her terms, which I can understand, but we've been having sex on her terms for years. I have needs and desires too. I'm done begging.

Lately she's been saying "I can't believe our marriage is hinging on sex," which drives me nuts cause it minimizes my feelings. And of course it doesn't just hinge on sex. Tip of the iceberg.

 

I really think you are just wasting your time with this woman. Life is short and this is time you will never, ever get back.

 

It takes courage to end a crappy marriage. There is lots of fear and insecurity involved, but the future will look much brighter once she is someone else's problem.

 

Also... dumping/divorcing a woman can temporarily do amazing things for her libido.

[Korea2000]

Also... dumping/divorcing a woman can temporarily do amazing things for her libido.

 

And you know why that is?

 

They use sex as a honey trap.

 

Then it often dries up once that ring gets put on their finger. Happened in my first marriage and ultimately I divorced her. She then had sex with lots of guys but I bet the BF she had now will find the tap runneth dry after she gets comfortable.

 

My present wife enjoys sex and I can't believe how lucky I am. That's how it is.

 

Either the OP makes her go to counselling or they'll end up divorced. She's breaking her marital commitment.

 

One thing I can't get my head around in the OPs case is this whole open marriage thing. The way he posts and describes his commitment to his w and indeed how she is, makes the whole open marriage experiment they tried look very desperate to me. Like it was a way of spicing up or reviving their sex life with one another. It didn't work (and wouldn't) because I think most couples are monogamous and want - and need - security, trust and exclusivity. Another reason OP isn't interested in escorts.

[Glowy sun]

And you know why that is?

 

They use sex as a honey trap.

 

Then it often dries up once that ring gets put on their finger. Happened in my first marriage and ultimately I divorced her. She then had sex with lots of guys but I bet the BF she had now will find the tap runneth dry after she gets comfortable.

 

My present wife enjoys sex and I can't believe how lucky I am. That's how it is.

 

Either the OP makes her go to counselling or they'll end up divorced. She's breaking her marital commitment.

 

One thing I can't get my head around in the OPs case is this whole open marriage thing. The way he posts and describes his commitment to his w and indeed how she is, makes the whole open marriage experiment they tried look very desperate to me. Like it was a way of spicing up or reviving their sex life with one another. It didn't work (and wouldn't) because I think most couples are monogamous and want - and need - security, trust and exclusivity. Another reason OP isn't interested in escorts.

 

We have been in counseling for the last six months. When we opened up the relationship, I fell in love with another woman, but left her at the beginning of the year. My wife developed strong feelings for another guy too, but that ended last fall. We closed the relationship back in January.

 

We tried the open relationship as a way of reviving our sex life, but also because we got together very young and weren't very sexually experienced outside each other. The experiment was a big flop and now I can't imagine being in a poly relationship.

[oldshirt]

I am joining the party late here and haven't read all the posts but wanted to chime in.

 

To address your original question - no, leaving the sexual initiation to her will NOT work and will actually make her attraction and desire for you continue to decrease until she finds someone else and has an affair/leaves or you finally break down and have an affair/leave.

 

The issue here is not her libido or sexual response it is that she no longer has any attraction/desire for YOU. If some guy better looking, more successful, more social status and more sexually dominant were to give her the nudge-nudge-wink-wink she would soak her panties in a New York Minute and would probably drop said panties in just a few minutes of seduction.

 

Even though they deny it publically, women are actually aroused and stimulated by men's advances and masculine dominance is one of the male traits that they find most stimulating of all (however they use the word "confidence" when they try to describe it) One of the traits that they find least arousing and desireable is passivity and compliance. So in essence by you becoming compliant, accommodating and passive, waiting for her to initiate you will become less and less sexually attractive and desirable in her eyes by the day.

 

Now as I said, deep down women innately want men to be the aggressors and the initiators but there is a huge caveat here.... that is only with men they are attracted to and find desirable in the first place. She isn't attracted to you anymore so even when you do try to initiate it is met with disdain, irritation and resentment. A very real catch-22.

 

That lack of attraction could be from a whole host of reasons from you gaining weight, losing hair or muscle tone to becoming more passive and lazy. It could be that she found other men more stimulating and sexy during your nonmonogamous days (I used to be a very active swinger so I am ok with the general concept of consensual nonmonogamy) or you two could have simply lost a lot of your emotional connection and closeness over time.

 

Whatever the reasons the simply truth is her sexuality no longer responds to you. If you voluntarily stop trying to initiate your sex life will as sure as the sun sets at night, die.

 

It will probably continue to decline and die at this rate even if you do continue to try to initiate.

 

Your only hope is to become more attractive and desirable as a man and a person. That means you need to hit the gym hard and lose bodyfat and gain muscle. You need to start dressing and grooming better and become more stylish and sharper looking. You need to become more ambitious and show greater initiative and passion in your personal, social and professional life.

 

A good way to view it is to look at your marriage as already and look at is as if what would you do if you were already divorced and were wanting to blow the dust off of your social and sexlife and get back out on the open sexual market.

 

What would people tell you to do if you got divorced and wanted to have a sexlife?? They would tell you to hit the gym, delve into your professional life and make some career gains and get that promotion or higher paying job. They would tell you to get out and pursue a passion and meet new people and get out there and start doing fun things with fun people.

 

One of two things will happen with that. the first is in a number of months she will see you looking better, having fun and attaining more personal, social and professional success and it may make her jay-jay start to tingle and she will want to join you in that new fun and exciting life.

 

What may cause that to happen is when she sees OTHER women start to take notice and show an interest in you.

 

The other thing that might happen is it will cause her to fold and throw in the towel for good. If that happens you will be a much much better position to find someone else and move on.

 

The big thing to keep in mind here is that you do it for YOU and to better your life and not do it for her or do it in hopes she will desire you again. You do it for you and one of the possible outcomes is you catch her eye and make her jay-jay tingle again and she wants to follow you into your new life.

 

She may not.

 

Another very real possible outcome is that once you are looking better, feeling better, having more friends, having more fun and having more success, you may decide that you no longer want her in your life after all and you decide to let her go so that both of you can pursue your own best interests on your own. That is a very real outcome.

 

This current marriage/relationship is on it's last few breaths whether you do anything or not. It is just a matter of days, weeks or a few months before one or the other of you has an affair and leaves for good. You can either sit passively by and let things happen to you. Or you can take the bull by the horns and set your own course and determine your own path.

Edited June 13, 2013 by oldshirt

[Korea2000]

I am joining the party late here and haven't read all the posts but wanted to chime in.

 

To address your original question - no, leaving the sexual initiation to her will NOT work and will actually make her attraction and desire for you continue to decrease until she finds someone else and has an affair/leaves or you finally break down and have an affair/leave.

 

The issue here is not her libido or sexual response it is that she no longer has any attraction/desire for YOU. If some guy better looking, more successful, more social status and more sexually dominant were to give her the nudge-nudge-wink-wink she would soak her panties in a New York Minute and would probably drop said panties in just a few minutes of seduction.

 

Even though they deny it publically, women are actually aroused and stimulated by men's advances and masculine dominance is one of the male traits that they find most stimulating of all (however they use the word "confidence" when they try to describe it) One of the traits that they find least arousing and desireable is passivity and compliance. So in essence by you becoming compliant, accommodating and passive, waiting for her to initiate you will become less and less sexually attractive and desirable in her eyes by the day.

 

Now as I said, deep down women innately want men to be the aggressors and the initiators but there is a huge caveat here.... that is only with men they are attracted to and find desirable in the first place. She isn't attracted to you anymore so even when you do try to initiate it is met with disdain, irritation and resentment. A very real catch-22.

 

That lack of attraction could be from a whole host of reasons from you gaining weight, losing hair or muscle tone to becoming more passive and lazy. It could be that she found other men more stimulating and sexy during your nonmonogamous days (I used to be a very active swinger so I am ok with the general concept of consensual nonmonogamy) or you two could have simply lost a lot of your emotional connection and closeness over time.

 

Whatever the reasons the simply truth is her sexuality no longer responds to you. If you voluntarily stop trying to initiate your sex life will as sure as the sun sets at night, die.

 

It will probably continue to decline and die at this rate even if you do continue to try to initiate.

 

Your only hope is to become more attractive and desirable as a man and a person. That means you need to hit the gym hard and lose bodyfat and gain muscle. You need to start dressing and grooming better and become more stylish and sharper looking. You need to become more ambitious and show greater initiative and passion in your personal, social and professional life.

 

A good way to view it is to look at your marriage as already and look at is as if what would you do if you were already divorced and were wanting to blow the dust off of your social and sexlife and get back out on the open sexual market.

 

What would people tell you to do if you got divorced and wanted to have a sexlife?? They would tell you to hit the gym, delve into your professional life and make some career gains and get that promotion or higher paying job. They would tell you to get out and pursue a passion and meet new people and get out there and start doing fun things with fun people.

 

One of two things will happen with that. the first is in a number of months she will see you looking better, having fun and attaining more personal, social and professional success and it may make her jay-jay start to tingle and she will want to join you in that new fun and exciting life.

 

What may cause that to happen is when she sees OTHER women start to take notice and show an interest in you.

 

The other thing that might happen is it will cause her to fold and throw in the towel for good. If that happens you will be a much much better position to find someone else and move on.

 

The big thing to keep in mind here is that you do it for YOU and to better your life and not do it for her or do it in hopes she will desire you again. You do it for you and one of the possible outcomes is you catch her eye and make her jay-jay tingle again and she wants to follow you into your new life.

 

She may not.

 

Another very real possible outcome is that once you are looking better, feeling better, having more friends, having more fun and having more success, you may decide that you no longer want her in your life after all and you decide to let her go so that both of you can pursue your own best interests on your own. That is a very real outcome.

 

This current marriage/relationship is on it's last few breaths whether you do anything or not. It is just a matter of days, weeks or a few months before one or the other of you has an affair and leaves for good. You can either sit passively by and let things happen to you. Or you can take the bull by the horns and set your own course and determine your own path.

 

I think you make some very good points in that post, albeit that I, personally, wouldn't go along with all of them. But yeah, this is a self esteem issue for the OP and his wife. It has to be true that if the OP improves his self esteem his w will find him more attractive. Has to be.

 

Where I don't agree with the above post is that the OP clearly still loves his wife and he hasn't given any indication at all that he wants out. It also is not the case that she will swoon for the first attractive male that flirts with her. No evidence if that at all. If anything their open marriage was a disaster and that may be at the heart if this; I reckon she lost respect for him deep down over that especially as he fell in love with the other woman.

 

Most people, like it or not, expect loyalty from their mate and that derives from security. 5 bucks and my right nut says the OPs wife feels insecure and betrayed by him. Doesn't matter that she did the same; they think differently and desire security.

 

Yes you can save your marriage. You know you want to. Follow the advice of the previous poster and improve your appearance and confidence, self esteem. It'll be the biggest turn on for your wife dude, fer sure.

[oldshirt]

I think you make some very good points in that post, albeit that I, personally, wouldn't go along with all of them. But yeah, this is a self esteem issue for the OP and his wife. It has to be true that if the OP improves his self esteem his w will find him more attractive. Has to be.

 

Where I don't agree with the above post is that the OP clearly still loves his wife and he hasn't given any indication at all that he wants out. It also is not the case that she will swoon for the first attractive male that flirts with her. No evidence if that at all. If anything their open marriage was a disaster and that may be at the heart if this; I reckon she lost respect for him deep down over that especially as he fell in love with the other woman.

 

Most people, like it or not, expect loyalty from their mate and that derives from security. 5 bucks and my right nut says the OPs wife feels insecure and betrayed by him. Doesn't matter that she did the same; they think differently and desire security.

 

Yes you can save your marriage. You know you want to. Follow the advice of the previous poster and improve your appearance and confidence, self esteem. It'll be the biggest turn on for your wife dude, fer sure.

 

It's not a self-esteem issue. Self esteem has no bearing and the pursuit of self esteem in and of it's self will accomplish nothing. IT is an attraction issue and he has to become more attractive and desirable to her whether his self esteem is the stuff of legends or is in the crapper.

 

A valid point is about the open marriage and her sense of security etc. The open marriage likely did damage her sense of security and connection with him. That is something that will likely need to be addressed before they can move forward.

 

I was right on the money however when I said that she (as well as he) is very vulnerable to someone else right now. If another man that is taller, better looking, more ambitious, higher social status and more professionally successful comes along AND HE DOES OFFER HER SECURITY AND EXCLUSIVITY ETC ETC, the door won't even hit her in the a$$ and she will be out of sight down the road before the dust even clears.

 

Women can go months and even years just marking time and playing house with a man they do not feel desire for. They will continue to live as husband and wife and will refinance mortgages and buy cars and even have more children, but then when someone comes along that they feel is a bigger and better deal, the legs can go over the shoulders in literally minutes and out of the house in no time.

 

I have personally known of several different perfectly normal, decent, professional, educated women that have literally left their husbands for other men in the course of a single weekend. If you look back through the people you know, you will come up with examples of that yourself. It is very real.

 

Those women had been dissatisfied and felt no attraction and desire for their husbands for years and all it took was someone else flipping their internal desire switch and they went from frigid wife with no sexdrive and no libido and having headaches and other maladies every night to a raging harlot who was screwing some dude senseless while her husband is sitting there bewildered and not knowing what hit him.

[BeholdtheMan]

Women can go months and even years just marking time and playing house with a man they do not feel desire for. They will continue to live as husband and wife and will refinance mortgages and buy cars and even have more children, but then when someone comes along that they feel is a bigger and better deal, the legs can go over the shoulders in literally minutes and out of the house in no time.

 

I have personally known of several different perfectly normal, decent, professional, educated women that have literally left their husbands for other men in the course of a single weekend. If you look back through the people you know, you will come up with examples of that yourself. It is very real.

 

Those women had been dissatisfied and felt no attraction and desire for their husbands for years and all it took was someone else flipping their internal desire switch and they went from frigid wife with no sexdrive and no libido and having headaches and other maladies every night to a raging harlot who was screwing some dude senseless while her husband is sitting there bewildered and not knowing what hit him.

Ah...c'est la vie

 

However, the attraction likely wasn't that strong to begin with, especially if the husband is the sort to sit there bewildered not knowing what hit him (these husbands usually fall into the category of clueless doormats)

[Mumbles]

OldShirt - right on the money my man.

 

There isn't a silver bullet to resurrect anyones failing relationship, but your overall thoughts are spot on in my view.

 

For mine, I struggled largely alone, hadn't discovered this forum in my darkest days, but waited to 'rediscover' myself and my manhood until well after the separation had occurred. I 100% agree with you, start that process now ... you never know, it may well have an effect on the OP's wife ... but, as you say, even if things are already doomed the OP will be able to hit the ground running if he has managed to find ways to self-improve - its really a no-lose situation from that angle.

 

I loved my wife until the day we parted ... in many ways I still do actually, but we couldn't go on living the life we'd allowed to beset us.

 

Women can go months and even years just marking time and playing house with a man they do not feel desire for. They will continue to live as husband and wife and will refinance mortgages and buy cars and even have more children, but then when someone comes along that they feel is a bigger and better deal, the legs can go over the shoulders in literally minutes and out of the house in no time.

 

I also don't disagree with this. Literally the weekend following the day we decided to separate my apparently low libido sexless wife was boffing some random guy she met online somewhere. What followed then was a (relatively) long line of sexual adventures for her. It just blew me away. I didn't know what to think - completely unprepared.

 

I have a new life view on such things now and won't ever degrade myself to that level again. I have to live my own life, as a strong and free willed man, doing what I want ... if a lady (be it wife or whatever) finds me exciting enough to want to join in that adventure then I'm truly open to that ... but I'm going ahead and doing my own thing regardless - its for them to decide if they want a piece of the action (so to speak).

[Glowy sun]

OldShirt - right on the money my man.

 

There isn't a silver bullet to resurrect anyones failing relationship, but your overall thoughts are spot on in my view.

 

For mine, I struggled largely alone, hadn't discovered this forum in my darkest days, but waited to 'rediscover' myself and my manhood until well after the separation had occurred. I 100% agree with you, start that process now ... you never know, it may well have an effect on the OP's wife ... but, as you say, even if things are already doomed the OP will be able to hit the ground running if he has managed to find ways to self-improve - its really a no-lose situation from that angle.

 

I loved my wife until the day we parted ... in many ways I still do actually, but we couldn't go on living the life we'd allowed to beset us.

 

 

 

I also don't disagree with this. Literally the weekend following the day we decided to separate my apparently low libido sexless wife was boffing some random guy she met online somewhere. What followed then was a (relatively) long line of sexual adventures for her. It just blew me away. I didn't know what to think - completely unprepared.

 

I have a new life view on such things now and won't ever degrade myself to that level again. I have to live my own life, as a strong and free willed man, doing what I want ... if a lady (be it wife or whatever) finds me exciting enough to want to join in that adventure then I'm truly open to that ... but I'm going ahead and doing my own thing regardless - its for them to decide if they want a piece of the action (so to speak).

 

Months later update. It turns out she was cheating with me with some random guy she met online. I found messages online. Plus she had contacted and even came onto her old online "boyfriend" even while we were working together on how to respond and pay back the money I owed to my old online "girlfriend" this summer.

 

On the one hand I feel like a sponge for abuse and she was being a complete hypocrite all those months while I was desperately trying to make the marriage work and getting little to no response. On the other hand, well I put in all those months of work and am not willing to just throw it all away.

 

For the record we have had sex a few times since. Some times have been good, some have been bad. I don't think she's come onto me at all though.

 

At times I feel wistful for the days of last year when I was "in love" with another woman. It doesn't take but thirty seconds to realize how silly and ill thought out that sounds. Like I didn't really know her as well as I thought. Plus she had kids which just sounds insanely insane now.

 

Most of the time, I try not to dwell on the still-lacking sex life or the FOMO or whatever. I revel in all the friends we have made over the past year and all the great times we've had together and all that I've been able to accomplish.

 

I'm still pretty unsure what the next step is. I'd really like to move sometime next year. My wife and I have embodied the whole "marriage is a constant thing that you have to work at" thing. Most of the time I find that to be a beautiful thing. My marriage feels like a well worn in pair of jeans. Very comfortable, but I'm also worrying that a hole's gonna pop up that's too big to patch and I'll have to throw it out.

 

Sorry if this makes no sense. It's late, I'm tired, and I'm feeling a bit under the weather.

[Got it]

I really think all signs are point to you not being a good match for each other. I am sorry you found out she was cheating again. How do you feel about separating?

 

If your wife doesn't want to separate/divorce what exactly is she doing to make things better? Words without actions are pointless.

[Charlie Harper]

So far this female expert.... can't figure my wife out either.

 

Some women are undecipherable... TRUE FACT.

 

This marriage is ****ED.

 

Get out. Run as fast as you can before you waste away whatever is left of the ONE LIFE YOU WILL EVER HAVE.

 

THIS! you are gone for her, she doesnt love you, respect you or want you...why you convince yourself with lies?

 

I really think you are just wasting your time with this woman. Life is short and this is time you will never, ever get back.

 

It takes courage to end a crappy marriage. There is lots of fear and insecurity involved, but the future will look much brighter once she is someone else's problem.

 

Also... dumping/divorcing a woman can temporarily do amazing things for her libido.

 

It takes balls to end a marriage and more so to undesrtand you have been played like a cheap piano.

 

Even though they deny it publically, women are actually aroused and stimulated by men's advances and masculine dominance is one of the male traits that they find most stimulating of all (however they use the word "confidence" when they try to describe it) One of the traits that they find least arousing and desireable is passivity and compliance. So in essence by you becoming compliant, accommodating and passive, waiting for her to initiate you will become less and less sexually attractive and desirable in her eyes by the day.

 

 

What would people tell you to do if you got divorced and wanted to have a sexlife?? They would tell you to hit the gym, delve into your professional life and make some career gains and get that promotion or higher paying job. They would tell you to get out and pursue a passion and meet new people and get out there and start doing fun things with fun people.

 

One of two things will happen with that. the first is in a number of months she will see you looking better, having fun and attaining more personal, social and professional success and it may make her jay-jay start to tingle and she will want to join you in that new fun and exciting life.

 

What may cause that to happen is when she sees OTHER women start to take notice and show an interest in you.

 

 

This current marriage/relationship is on it's last few breaths whether you do anything or not. It is just a matter of days, weeks or a few months before one or the other of you has an affair and leaves for good. You can either sit passively by and let things happen to you. Or you can take the bull by the horns and set your own course and determine your own path.

 

I got tired of begging for sex, when we had it in like 7 to 10 days on average it was a marathon, she enjoyed it and I really really got into it because I knew I was going to be starved for sex for a week or so...

 

Finally I got pissed tired and depressed .... I reconected with old friends, hit the Gym, changed clothes, went out a lot, met new people, she did not cared ... then in one party I hugged an old female friend, and she told me "I always liked your hugs" and kept hugging me, I could see my wife was pissed... then that same evening she demanded to be my "friend on Facebook" BOY oh! BOY... she became a jealous freak, because she saw I had 280 female friends and like 9 male friends, a lot of pictures of me with women...

so we began having a lot of more sex, but on her part it was mechanical, and she latter confessed me that she knew some of them really wanted me to have sex with them.

 

After I told her I did not want mechanical sex on her part, her sex"drive" went south... so much for the " I love you" "I care" etc she told me...

 

So I played nice, was accomodating to her needs, good parent, bought her tons of stuff, took her on trips, bought her jewelry, new car, remodelled the house, you name it IT WAS NEVER ENOUGH. then she found out I am a very diserable man and she becomes jealous, controlling and cranky... but she doesnt reconnect, heck we even went counseling and she dropped out....

 

SOme women are so damaged that not even themselves can unravel their crooked reality...

 

DIVORCE.... look someone to make you happy.