Flirting Boundaries?

[Hendrix2]

At my girlfriends 23rd birthday party at a bar, one of my friends showed up late and bought a bottle for the party. She was already pretty drunk but she was so excited to see him and the fact he bought an entire bottle that she embraced him and they kissed right in front of me. It wasn't mouth to mouth but close. She later told me "its just your friend". I've seen friends kiss before but the passion of this one was what got to me. Later that night, my gf and my friend were talking about smoking weed during sex (not those 2 specifically doing it but how it might be cool) and I overheard cuz I was sitting right there and that bothered me too. She gives me reason to doubt her with this guy cuz of their nonstop flirting when we are all together and I become the 3rd wheel. I've showed up late to parties and see her arms around his neck, he's the only other guy I've ever seen her dance with besides me, when he drops us off late at night and she has to work and doesn't wanna stay at my place he'll drop me off first and then take her home just the two of them. It's just a gut instinct I have that although she loves me, there's something she has for my friend (who has a gf). Constantly tortured by thoughts of her sleeping with him and don't know if I should stay in this, no matter what she says her actions clearly show she's got it for him. Am I too paranoid/suspicious? Or is she really crossing the line?

[Bryanp]

You are not paranoid at all. How would she feel if the roles were reversed? She constantly flirts with this guy and when you arrive late for parties she has her arms around his neck. This is major disrespect for you. I would suggest that you contact his girlfriend and tell her what you are feeling.

 

There seems to be serious flirting going on. If you continuously allow her to flirt in front of you it shows how little respect she has for you. If you do not respect yourself then who will?

[will1988]

If my fiance did that with one of my friends, both would be out of my life so fast their heads would swim! Your paranoia is well founded on this issue. She could even be cheating on you with him. It is time to confront both of them. If they get really defensive that means they are lying. Ask your other friends too what they think. If they are truly your friends they will tell you the truth. With friends like that, who needs enemies?

 

good luck!

[carhill]

IMO, you have sufficient information and reasons to end the relationship, and I'd recommend doing it proactively, meaning not as a reaction to a particular action nor argument.

 

Presuming you're young, as you noted your GF's 23 BD, beware of the propensity for some women to 'engineer' social constructs based on emotional responses to their words and actions. It's called emotional manipulation. You're getting a taste of it right now. Good luck.

[therhythm]

Yet again, everyone advocating for stopping someone else relationship...

Not that I don't think you can feel like letting her go, but what about having a heart to heart conversation with her and telling her you are not comfortable with her behavior with your friend and will have to move on and let her go if she does not change that?

 

By the way, you need to look for better friends... real friends do not play with your girlfriend!

[road]

If he was your friend he would not act that way with your GF.

 

Dating is the job interview for marriage. She failed the interview. Dump. Repeat. Until you find the right one.

 

Also dump the guy friend.

 

They are probably banging behind your back any way.

[crederer]

Some girls are generally flirtatious and you need to be okay with that in order to be in a relationship with her.

 

The fact that you say she does this only with him is the red flag.

 

Also, as someone else stated you need to find better friends. My best buds girl has made it pretty clear she wants me (with body language at first then flat out told me). I put the kabosh on that because that is completely unacceptable and I'm not going to ruin a relationship with my best friend for a piece of ass.

[will1988]

Some girls are generally flirtatious and you need to be okay with that in order to be in a relationship with her.

 

The fact that you say she does this only with him is the red flag.

 

Also, as someone else stated you need to find better friends. My best buds girl has made it pretty clear she wants me (with body language at first then flat out told me). I put the kabosh on that because that is completely unacceptable and I'm not going to ruin a relationship with my best friend for a piece of ass.

 

you sir are a prime example of a good friend! OP you need friends like this, who believe in Bro-Code!

[ExpatInItaly]

Wait, he drops you off first then drives her home alone? Why?

Combined with the other behaviour you described, that is extremely suspicious.

 

Talk to her and let her know that she's making you very uncomfortable. Then talk to him and say that same. It needs to stop. If it doesn't, then you have your answer.

[Hendrix2]

I've presented that argument several times. "How would you react/what would you think if you saw the same behavior from me with other women/your friends, etc" Usually she responds with "I would think nothing of it because if its with one of my friends I would know that it's nothing blah blah" Ive never wanted the one to blow up and appear super jealous over some of this stuff which may seem trivial, however after one year of witnessing it Ive done myself and the relationship some serious damage with all the built up resentment. I've never contacted his gf because I didn't/don't want to come off like a paranoid control freak. Plus I don't wanna hurt their relationship anymore, he has cheated on her many times (even with some of her friends). It would be kinda awkward cuz my gf spends a lot of time with them as a couple and helps them through their problems, yet I feel she has feelings for him. Thank you btw

[Hendrix2]

I have confronted her and I'm breaking up with her. Haven't talked to him yet but thinking about it. Maybe I shouldn't be but I'm just worried about coming off as an insecure and out of touch with reality. However, I know that whatever I do, I can't help but feel like #2 when he's around and if I feel I can't trust her then that's probably enough to warrant calling it quits. Appreciate the response btw

[Hendrix2]

IMO, you have sufficient information and reasons to end the relationship, and I'd recommend doing it proactively, meaning not as a reaction to a particular action nor argument.

 

Presuming you're young, as you noted your GF's 23 BD, beware of the propensity for some women to 'engineer' social constructs based on emotional responses to their words and actions. It's called emotional manipulation. You're getting a taste of it right now. Good luck.

 

What do you mean when you say beware of the engineered social constructs etc? Do you basically mean get ready for some bull****?

[Hendrix2]

80+% of communication is body language. I think you're picking up on hers. How is it acceptable for him to drop her off last? You stand for this?

 

I've always been in a constant war/state of conflict with regards to her words vs her body language. Her words/actions when she's alone with me tell me one thing, but whenever he is around her body language screams something else. How she would find ways to be near him, laugh and agree with everything he said, she would wanna stay at his apartment late not wanting to leave early with me (not alone, but with his gf there too, but knowing he would drive her home), she would get dropped off last by him, We would change scenery and all take different cars and she would ride alone with him and they would show up like 45 mins late while we waited for them at the new apartment (they arrived with food so clearly they just took a detour to grab food) so I couldn't freak out over that but I couldn't help but feel like I was burning inside. There were so many little things like this that overtime became too much. I never agreed with him dropping her off last but I didn't wanna come off as controlling and insecure by saying something, probably a mistake.

[Calvin's wagon]

I'm really short on time and I have to run, but I saw that you're probably quite anxious to get a reply here.

 

My opinion (given the limited information we have) is that you breaking up with her is a great decision! You might have some doubts, but if I were in your shoes, I would have broken up probably a long time ago!

 

Take it as an important learning experience for moving forward and try to not beat yourself up for not saying anything to her sooner or for not breaking up with her sooner. I think you had to go through something like this to learn what kind of girlfriend/behaviour you will not tolerate in the future! It was the same with me (feel free to check my threads) - I tolerated my ex's behaviour for too long, but I was inexperienced and had to learn.

 

Also, don't worry and overthink about what you could have said sooner - the fact is, IMO, that if you had to tell her that her kind of behaviour was inappropriate (and to me it was wildly inappropriate and extremely suspicious, to say the least), then she obviously wasn't the right girl for you. You want to be with someone who will not behave like she did not because you tell her to not behave like, but because she herself knows that and doesn't need/want to behave like that, but wants to focus and does enjoy her boyfriend as her number one person, whether alone or in the company of anyone else.

 

I have to run now, but I will try to reply to any of your replies today/following days!

 

 

As someone who has had experience with people like her, I am proud of you for standing up for yourself and not tolerating people like her anymore in your life! Life's too short and you're too valuable to waste it on someone like her, you will find happiness firstly by yourself, then with being someone great for you!

 

Best wishes

[carhill]

What do you mean when you say beware of the engineered social constructs etc? Do you basically mean get ready for some bull****?

She's engineering an environment to make you crazy, then can walk away feeling positive about walking away from that 'crazy, jealous creep' of an exBF. For some 23 year olds, that's SOP. Some grow out of it. Some don't.

 

In marriages, it's often called 'gaslighting', after the 1944 movie which won Ingrid Bergman an Academy Award.

 

That's apt.

[nerd]

It's an awesome movie, by the way. And only partly because Ingrid Bergman is hot.

[Hendrix2]

Thanks a lot Calvin's Wagon, the accuracy/relevance of your post as it relates to my stance on this whole issue couldn't be more dead on. This is exactly what I communicated to her as we parted ways. Instead of behaving in a way that showed me that she prioritized me and our relationship (which she did most of the time), she continuously proved that there were exceptions if this other guy was around. Someone who is truly a good partner would never engage in that kind of stuff in the first place because they know its not cool and they don't want/need to period. They don't need to be told that, it's just a fundamental part of being in a healthy committed relationship.

 

Kinda took me some time to just say ok that's enough this isn't what I want but I'm glad I finally did. I think I just found ways to justify her actions too many times. I agree in saying it was a valuable experience I had to have. Moving forward, I think there are specific things that I can confidently identify as being essential pieces to a relationship I'd commit to as well as the deal breakers. Def some valuable lessons learned. thanks a lot

[Calvin's wagon]

Hi, awesome, great to hear this!

 

Honestly, it has made my day to hear these news! I'm really proud of you, man, great! One day (if not already) you will look back and be really proud of you/grateful to yourself for standing up for yourself and for protecting yourself!

 

But speaking from my own experience, there will perhaps be days in the (near) future when you will miss her, doubt your decision (especially if she tries to reel you and put you back on the hook), or you will just in general want to talk about stuff with someone, to help you process these things, to help you in moving on, on working on yourself.

 

If/when this happens, I hope you will remember that here there are lots of people who wish you all the best and will strive to help you as much as possible!

 

High five! And best wishes!

[Hendrix2]

Yeah I feel ok for the moment, like I'm ready to just relax for some time and clear my head. She keeps finding ways to contact me though like texting, messages, commenting on my fbook stuff as well as my friends, etc Shouldn't we like chill out a bit and take some time?

[Calvin's wagon]

Hey!

 

Have you read the NC guide here? (It's in my signature as well).

 

I'd strongly recommend following it! I wish I had severed all ties with my ex much much sooner than I had. I eventually told her to never ever contact me again, and to ignore me if by any chance she'd see me again anywhere. I could never ever trust her again to not lie to me or disrespect me, once the trust was gone, so there was no point in ever talking to her again.

 

So I'd strongly recommend deactivating fb for at leat a while (so you won't be tempted), or if you truly wish to stay on facebook, to:

- block her

- unfriend common friends (if they're your good friends, explain it to them and they'll understand; if they're not, then who cares what they think)

 

Also, block her phone number for calls and messages. If she persists in calling from other phone numbers, change your phone number (that's what I eventually did, and it felt so f---ing good!).

 

Ask your good friends to not mention her to you AT ALL, UNLESS you mention her first in a conversation.

 

For a while, make sure you and your friends remind you of all the s--t she's done, so you shan't be tempted to think that you made a mistake...

 

Work on yourself!

 

All of things things (and many more) helped me significantly to heal.

 

And don't worry about how this will appear to her or others. Your good friends will understand why you're doing this. As for anyone else, who the f--k cares what they think. Think of it as chemotherapy and a surgery - you're doing the best to get rid of someone very cancerous from your life, even if it can be painful and look weird to outsiders (like chemo survivers and baldness...).

 

And don't worry if occasionally NC will be broken by you, her or some 3rd person. We're all human. Just pick NC up again, try to prevent it from happening again and move on with your life.

 

Again, this is my advice, from my experience, and it might not be helpful and appropriate for your situation. I wouldn't wish to do more harm than good with my advice. I'm trying to give you the advice I'd wish to receive if I were you and in your shoes.

 

Best wishes!

[Calvin's wagon]

Oh, and if you decide to try to go NC to clear your mind, but if you're not inclined to make it permanent and want to keep your options (friendship, sth more), I would strongly suggest you explain her beforehand what you will do and why you want to do this, and perhaps tell her that you'll contact her if/when you'll be ready, and that you'd like her to not contact you unless _____ (fill in the blank). It will make it easier for you and her, I think. Mature communication ftw:)

 

And now I see she's French. I spent some time in France, they're interesting people:)

 

In my experience it's hard to maintain friendship with an ex without one/both being "hurt", and especially hard when you get a new SO. I know I'd be pretty hesitant to be with a girl who'd be "friends" with her ex... But perhaps that's just my bad experience...

[Chi townD]

Dude, flirting or not, the first time you feel like a 3rd wheel in your OWN relationship, there's a massive problem. She may say that she loves you, but it's obvious that she doesn't respect you.

 

How did the confrontation and the break up go?

[Hendrix2]

Appreciate it Calvin's wagon, ill check out the NC guide. It's not a situation where she has hurt me deeply by cheating (not that i know of) and I want to severe all ties. It's ending in a pretty cordial manner. I think we could still be involved in each others lives at some point but for now I'd like some space. Today she was calling me, texting me, inviting me to her house for lunch, asking if we can talk again cuz the last time really helped her and shes growing up and she wants me to tell her how she can be a good person, etc (although growing up from something like this takes a long time IMO not 3 days lol)

 

 

She denies ever cheating on me and says she never had feelings for the other guy and will always maintain that to her grave. She wishes i would have told her way sooner how i was feeling about it cuz she "had no idea how she was acting" and was "just being social and friendly" and "just joking around with my friend cuz he's always making jokes and she was just responding on a friendly manner" lol Told her we could sit down and talk again in like week to help her through this but it's over

[Hendrix2]

Dude, flirting or not, the first time you feel like a 3rd wheel in your OWN relationship, there's a massive problem. She may say that she loves you, but it's obvious that she doesn't respect you.

 

How did the confrontation and the break up go?

 

Yes, unfortunately she never got to witness the ultimate example of how to treat a man/be loved by a man cuz her dad left when she was young and then died. I think as a result she craves some major male attention in her life and is very flirty/receptive to any male attention cuz she never got it as a kid. She's genuinely a good person, she just is flirty with dudes (especially with my one friend) to the point that it made me doubt her all the time and made me feel like a ****ty third wheel when we were around him (worst feeling ever btw). Literally would do anything for me and loved me with all her heart, but if my buddy was around (who is also French like her) all her attention was directed at him. I couldn't stand it, very confusing and contradictory behavior, hated it.

 

Break up sit down was positive and cordial, chilled with her for two days at her place just talking everything out. We were laughing, talking about individual future goals, she said the door is always open and wants to to do some we never got to do, etc Two days have passed and she keeps texting, messaging, saying she needs help, still has a lot of questions, guilt tripping me a little. Hope it doesn't turn sour and I hope she gives some space. I agreed to talk with her face to face again in like a week.

[Iseenamandie]

I've been crushed like that before also. My ex was working at a job that I got for her and ended up having sex with a resident that lives where she worked (an apartment complex). She didn't come home that night untill 6 am and I found out everything. I got back with her later and she did the same thing but even worse. So yeah the why hurts. But eventually, if you stay a good person, you will come out on top and you will be happy to not care about her anymore, especially when you find someone better. And by the way you described she is, it won't be hard. If I were you I would focus on myself. Get your own car so you don't have to rely on peices of shts like that guy to drive you around. If you can't afford it, look for a better job. I would definitely drop this girl because hey, face the facts, she has already had sex with him. If she hasn't, it would be a miracle and even then she has most likely fooled around with him. So try to drop her and bear the pain, it won't last forever. If yoh can't find the strength to dump her, find yourself another girl while you're still with her to ease yourself away. It may sound wrong, but she doesn't deserve honesty from you anyway. It'd be different if she wasn't fcking your friend.