What do you do at the gym?

[fortyninethousand322]

I have to agree about full body versus isolated. I don't think you can get as strong as quickly with full body workouts...just from my experience and opinion...

 

That's my experience as well. But, then again, the last time I did full body workouts I was in high school and didn't know much about working out and building muscle. I was still experimenting and didn't really understand much.

[Mr Scorpio]

Each session is generally less than 40 minutes. I simply can't do more than 2 or 3 different exercises on the same muscle group before it's completely drained. I will generally cover two muscle groups per session, so 5 or 6 different exercises. At the moment for each one I aim for three sets of eight or ten reps, and if I succeed then I raise the weight, so most of the time I'll be actually be going to failure on sets two and three.

 

Nice. That is what exactly what I'd like to do, if only my body would recover quickly enough.

[Emilia]

Nice. That is what exactly what I'd like to do, if only my body would recover quickly enough.

It will eventually if you keep at it

[tman666]

It will eventually if you keep at it

 

Agreed. I have found that for me the key with higher frequency training is to start off with a low enough volume to allow recovery.

 

Volume/intensity can be ramped up slowly over time.

 

John Broz has some interesting writings on the topic of high frequency training, if anyone is interested.

[Mr Scorpio]

It will eventually if you keep at it

Isn't that the sort of adaptation that people strive to avoid and/or break-thru? The whole "tricking the body" to get beyond plateaus and such?

 

Agreed. I have found that for me the key with higher frequency training is to start off with a low enough volume to allow recovery.

 

So you would recommend lighter, more frequent workouts then? I assumed that I simply don't consume enough protein (or calories in general) for my body to recover quickly enough to manage lifting on back-to-back days. I don't each much, as my goal for right now is fat loss. Once I strip away most of the goo from my body, maybe then I'll make the switch, depending on budget and time.

[hppr]

I work upper body one day, lower the other. Talking a couple hours a day for each at least.

 

Unless you are on a cycle or you are the type who gains weight very easily (and wants to keep it off) then there's no reason for most guys to go more often than that.

[fortyninethousand322]

I work upper body one day, lower the other. Talking a couple hours a day for each at least.

 

Unless you are on a cycle or you are the type who gains weight very easily (and wants to keep it off) then there's no reason for most guys to go more often than that.

 

Well that depends on what your goals are.

 

Some people (myself included) actually want to be pretty muscular. You have to have some kind of plan and routine for that. Not just go twice a week or whatever.

[tman666]

Isn't that the sort of adaptation that people strive to avoid and/or break-thru? The whole "tricking the body" to get beyond plateaus and such?

 

"Muscle Confusion" does not exist. Muscles don't need to be tricked or confused. Progressively increasing stimuli, along with nutrient availability and the right hormonal profile, is what causes a muscle to grow.

 

Stagnation in progress is definitely something to be avoided, but increasing your recovery ability is never a bad thing. To steal a quote from Rippetoe: you don't get stronger or bigger from lifting weights. You get stronger and bigger from recovering from lifting weights.

 

The tricky thing is balancing recovery with stimuli (training). If one doesn't progressively increase their training effect (through manipulation of volume, intensity, and frequency), the body will stop adapting (because it doesn't need to). However, if the demands of training exceed recovery ability too much, progress will also halt, or injury will occur.

 

So you would recommend lighter, more frequent workouts then? I assumed that I simply don't consume enough protein (or calories in general) for my body to recover quickly enough to manage lifting on back-to-back days. I don't each much, as my goal for right now is fat loss. Once I strip away most of the goo from my body, maybe then I'll make the switch, depending on budget and time.

 

It depends on what you're trying to do. If your goal is to get stronger on a specific lift (as is necessary for Olympic lifting or powerlifting), training the lift once per week may not be enough to effectively "practice" the motor patterns needed to optimize lift efficiency, which is extremely important in technical lifts.

 

If your main goal is to maximize muscle size, training each muscle once per week, albeit at high volume and intensity, is viable. Bodybuilders traditionally train this way. While most bodybuilders do train the power-lifts (squat/bench/deads), they use them as a means to an end, rather than making the primary focus the lift itself. Due to the relatively high volume needed and the large amount of exercise variety required to train each muscle, split training makes the most sense for pursuing this goal.

 

That said, it's not like there's just one way to train for each goal. There are some very big and strong people that use split training. There are some very big and strong people that use a push/pull split, or an upper body/lower body split. Same goes for full body training.

 

My view is that training with sub-maximal weights can be used effectively for strength gain and muscle gain. If you look at methods such as 5/3/1 and Westside, sub-maximal training plays a huge role. Of course, if you go too "sub-maximal" (i.e. lift like a wuss), you won't be delivering enough training stimuli to spur adaptation (progress).

[Mr Scorpio]

It depends on what you're trying to do.

 

I am trying to attain a decent level of fitness, which I currently define as being able to do the following:

• 5k in under 25:00
  
• 5 miles non-stop
  
• Bench my bodyweight
  
• Perform 3 sets of 10 reps of pull-ups and dips
  
• Strengthen my core so as to avoid lower back pain
  
• Attain sufficient flexibility so as to avoid lower back pain
  

Through that, I would like to have a lean body with visible abs and some definition in my shoulders, triceps, and back.

[hppr]

Some people (myself included) actually want to be pretty muscular. You have to have some kind of plan and routine for that. Not just go twice a week or whatever.

 

I went from 145 to 190, now I'm 175. I am 5'11. So yeah I kinda know what works, at least for me. A couple hours a day, two days a week doing whole body workouts has maintained this weight for me for 3 months straight.

 

Also if you aren't prepared to cycle then you aren't going to be 'pretty muscular' like those big guys at the gym if that is your thing. Simple fact, protein shakes and creatine won't do it no matter what the magazines tell you, and if you're going to the gym 3-4 days a week working out like mad without cycling you are probably just hurting yourself unless you are one of the lucky few guys who is an easy gainer, good TEST levels naturally etc.

[fortyninethousand322]

I went from 145 to 190, now I'm 175. I am 5'11. So yeah I kinda know what works, at least for me. A couple hours a day, two days a week doing whole body workouts has maintained this weight for me for 3 months straight.

 

Also if you aren't prepared to cycle then you aren't going to be 'pretty muscular' like those big guys at the gym if that is your thing. Simple fact, protein shakes and creatine won't do it no matter what the magazines tell you, and if you're going to the gym 3-4 days a week working out like mad without cycling you are probably just hurting yourself unless you are one of the lucky few guys who is an easy gainer, good TEST levels naturally etc.

 

I don't use protein shakes or creatine.

 

I see gains going to the gym 4 days a week, each day isolating a different muscle group each time.

 

I'm about 185 now, but I'd like to get up to 220-230. The hard part is making sure to eat enough. But I'm pretty sure I have high levels of testosterone naturally.

[fortyninethousand322]

I am trying to attain a decent level of fitness, which I currently define as being able to do the following:

• 5k in under 25:00
  
• 5 miles non-stop
  
• Bench my bodyweight
  
• Perform 3 sets of 10 reps of pull-ups and dips
  
• Strengthen my core so as to avoid lower back pain
  
• Attain sufficient flexibility so as to avoid lower back pain
  

Through that, I would like to have a lean body with visible abs and some definition in my shoulders, triceps, and back.

 

So you basically want to be Bruce Lee.

[Mr Scorpio]

So you basically want to be Bruce Lee.

 

Whoa now! No one said anything about doing sets of one-arm chin-ups at fifty-reps per set! Much less the two-finger pushup!

[fortyninethousand322]

Whoa now! No one said anything about doing sets of one-arm chin-ups at fifty-reps per set! Much less the two-finger pushup!

 

Yeah I was just messing with you.

 

I'd honestly consider him one of the strongest people of the 20th century. His routine was ridiculous.

[hppr]

I don't use protein shakes or creatine.

 

I see gains going to the gym 4 days a week, each day isolating a different muscle group each time.

 

I'm about 185 now, but I'd like to get up to 220-230. The hard part is making sure to eat enough. But I'm pretty sure I have high levels of testosterone naturally.

 

What is your height and weight? And are you reasonably fit right now? Because if your height and weight are in good proportion and you're reasonably fit you aren't gaining that much without cycling. If you are tall, out of shape, then yeah you still have plenty to go on. Also isolation is okay but if you want to bulk up you are better off with workouts that do large parts of your body, less trips to the gym and more trips to the fridge. Just my 2 cents.

[USMCHokie]

I don't use protein shakes or creatine.

 

Start using creatine.

[Emilia]

Start using creatine.

Isn't it really bad for you though? I used it briefly (sparingly) but have completely stopped

[USMCHokie]

Isn't it really bad for you though? I used it briefly (sparingly) but have completely stopped

 

It's the only supplement I've seen that has been widely regarded as safe and effective in building lean muscle mass.

[Emilia]

It's the only supplement I've seen that has been widely regarded as safe and effective in building lean muscle mass.

I think food agencies talked about banning it, I heard people had kidney issues after taking it - though obviously volume would be key. Guess it's not essential for me so it's an easy decision not to take it.

[USMCHokie]

I think food agencies talked about banning it, I heard people had kidney issues after taking it - though obviously volume would be key. Guess it's not essential for me so it's an easy decision not to take it.

 

Well, the body creates it on its own, but supplementing with more helps. And there is no other substance in sports medicine that has been so thoroughly tested, studied, and published by peer reviewed journals () than creatine. I've never heard of anything remotely resembling a ban on the substance...because it's naturally occurring in a lot of foods, especially red meat.

 

Kidney issues are prevalent with overdosing on any supplement, whether it's vitamins, protein, creatine, etc.

[Emilia]

Well, the body creates it on its own, but supplementing with more helps. And there is no other substance in sports medicine that has been so thoroughly tested, studied, and published by peer reviewed journals () than creatine. I've never heard of anything remotely resembling a ban on the substance...because it's naturally occurring in a lot of foods, especially red meat.

 

Kidney issues are prevalent with overdosing on any supplement, whether it's vitamins, protein, creatine, etc.

I think it's the lack of studies on long term effects that make some people nervous. I'm considering protein shakes, will buy some tomorrow, but I think I'll pass on creatine. I'm sure I'm being dramatic.

[USMCHokie]

I'm sure I'm being dramatic.

 

Indeed.

[Els]

Even if creatinine is legal and you take moderate amounts of it, do yourself a favor and get a proper blood+urine workup before even thinking about supplementing it. If your renal function isn't up to par, your creatinine clearance will be insufficient to remove it from the body, and Bad Things happen when it accumulates.

[fortyninethousand322]

Even if creatinine is legal and you take moderate amounts of it, do yourself a favor and get a proper blood+urine workup before even thinking about supplementing it. If your renal function isn't up to par, your creatinine clearance will be insufficient to remove it from the body, and Bad Things happen when it accumulates.

 

Yeah a lot of people in my family have kidney problems. I don't want to chance anything (especially since I can't buy one from somebody if my kidneys go). So I'll stick with the basic building blocks: food and water.

[Star Gazer]

I haven't been to gym since... January, maybe. I'm in the best shape of my life.

 

Monday: Morning easy run; calisthenics

Tuesday: Evening tempo run; calisthenics

Wednesday: Morning easy run; calisthenics

Thursday: Evening speed work; calisthenics

Friday: REST

Saturday: Long run

Sunday: Full body boot camp

 

In the winter, the weekend is often replaced with one or two days of skiing.

 

In the spring and early summer, Wednesdays and Saturdays are on trail instead of road.

 

Gawd, I love my thighs.