Drinking and Religion

[Moose]

Ok, what is everyone's view on this?

 

Mrs. Moose was taught that drinking is a big no no if you're a Christian.

 

I don't see it that way. There is nothing in the bible that says a Christian can't drink. It does say that we shouldn't be so drunk we aren't thinking straight. But I have nothing against a person who drinks a couple beers after a hard days work. Or even more on the weekends working out on the yard.

 

I know what you're thinking, with my history I probably shouldn't be drinking period. But that's not it....I don't drink the way I used to AT ALL!!! I never will do that again!!! I do like to have a beer or two after work or after supper. I don't get drunk at all, a little buzz but that's it.

 

Anyway.....I've been going to her Church for 16 years now and they're totally against it. So what's your take on religion and drinking, and do you think I need to find my own Church where it's accepted?

[Stone]

I guess it depends on what religion you are I have a client that is a catholic preist and he drinks scotch and water every night!! I have never questioned him about it.

[bluechocolate]

I can't recall anything in Catholicism that says drinking is a sin. Indeed, wine is a part of mass. And didn't Jesus turn water into wine for a wedding party?

 

Mrs. Moose was taught that drinking is a big no no if you're a Christian.

 

Taught by whom?

[Merin]

I think drinking in moderation is acceptable...

 

Isn't it that to much of anything isn't good?

 

BTW I'm catholic... and my bf is roman catholic... I've not heard it said that drinking period is unacceptable?

 

Just in moderation...

[HokeyReligions]

I seem to remember taking several communions where I drank the symbolic blood of christ - but it was really red wine, even as a child.

 

My mom was always dead-set against drinking for "religious reasons" as she would say. She never really defined those reasons though -- I think it was because my dad was an alkie.

 

I don't see that its any different than eating or drinking anything else -- some churches and religions dictate that their members not eat red meat on Fridays, or not eat pork, etc. so I guess my question is: what is the reasoning behind your wife's church not allowing the consumption of alcohol? What is the doctrine?

[Fayebelle]

http://www.twopaths.com/faq_alcohol.htm

 

Does Mrs Moose think alcohol is OK for medicinial purposes?

 

 

I like my wine and I'll confess I like to get tipsy every once and again. I believe in breaking bread and making merry.

 

The way I see it is it's definately not one of the 7 deadly sins and it's not against the 10 Commandments -so it's kind of open to the interpretation of your specific religion. My Priest and the Bishop of my area drank (now obviously I never saw them plowed but you get the idea)

[Moose]

Originally posted by bluechocolate

I can't recall anything in Catholicism that says drinking is a sin. Indeed, wine is a part of mass. And didn't Jesus turn water into wine for a wedding party?

 

Mrs. Moose was taught that drinking is a big no no if you're a Christian.

 

Taught by whom?

 

Her parents, her pastor, everyone at our Church sees it as a sin.

 

I feel out of place there because of it too, I just never told her about it....and I'm sure she's not too comfortable either.....

[bluechocolate]

Her parents, her pastor, everyone at our Church sees it as a sin.

 

I would ask them to show you where in the bible Jesus says that drinking is a sin.

 

And like I mentioned, Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding party when the host ran out of wine.

 

How can it be OK for Jesus to supply wine for wedding guests, who presumably were going to drink it, if it is a sin?

 

BTW - I seem to remember that this was the first miracle he performed. If drinking is indeed sinful I would think he would have come up with something else as his first miracle.

[Matilda]

This thread reminds me of this quote from Benjamin Franklin:

 

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."

 

According to Ben, religion and drinking are very compatible.

[HokeyReligions]

Good Link, Faybelle, Thanks

 

.....some denominations (e.g., Southern Baptist and United Methodist) oppose all use of alcohol because of its great potential for abuse

 

Potential huh? That's interesting. I wonder how they actually interpret those Bible passages? Maybe Jesus shouldn't have turned the water into wine because of the potential problems -- did Jesus make a mistake?

 

I'm agnostic, but I find the various organized religions (Christian) and their different interpretations of the same text interesting from a sociologic stand-point. I'm not putting down religion or churches, I just think the evolution of religious practices is an interesting subject.

[tiki]

Moderation, moderation...my dear. I think it has to be within moderation. My religions doesn't promote drinking either. With your history, I'd be very careful.

[Moose]

On the link that Faye gave me, it says on the very bottom that southern baptists and united methodists oppose all use of alcohol because of it's great potential of abuse.

 

I can agree with that to a certain degree, if a person can't handle it, or doesn't realize when to stop, then they shouldn't be doing it.

 

That was me several years ago. I mean, I drank a case a day every day. I was welding back then and my job was physically demanding. I have a bad back and I think I was self medicating. Now that I've gotten into so much trouble over it and caused so much pain in my family, I only have a few after work, and I never, EVER get too buzzed to where I couldn't think straight.

 

Anyway. last night I could tell that something was bothering Mrs. Moose. When I asked her she said that she'd tell me when she's ready. Well, that kinda ticked me off because I'm not one to wait around doing nothing when there may be a problem between us. Well, now I was in a bad mood, and she was mad at me because I didn't say, "It's all right, I'll be here when you're ready". And I can see her view. She should know though, that if I don't know exactley what's going on, I get very paranoid! Well, that's all over now.

 

She's our family driver, hauls me to work, kids to school, picks everyone up....yada, yada.......When she dropped me off this morning, I asked her how long am I going to have to wait and worry before she'll tell me what's bothering her.

 

She said that she doesn't feel right whenever she takes me to the store and I buy beer. Well, I told her not to do it anymore then, I'll find other ways to go after it. She said she didn't want to talk about it last night because she didn't want to confront me about it in front of the kids and she was trying to come up with a way to approach me without causing a fight.

 

Here's the deal. She thinks that with my past I shouldn't drink at all....nothing....ever. I don't feel that way. I keep it way under control and never do I drink so much that I turn into someone else. I just enjoy a cold beer now and then. In my mind, I know that I've caused all kinds of problems with it. I've learned from those mistakes and I'll never let it get to that point ever again. So what's the matter?

 

My thing is, if she believes I shouldn't and the Church we go to doesn't allow it, then what should I do? I refuse to quit just because the Church looks down on it, and I'm refuse to give it up just because my wife believes the way the Church does.

 

What should I do?

[tiki]

But doesn't your wife have the right to ask you to quit, especially based on the history? And wouldn't you quit for her, no matter what her preference stems from?

[Fayebelle]

Well Moose- seems you've answered your own question.

 

But allow me a moment to be so bold

 

Alcohol is cunning- I'm pretty sure you've been to meetings and heard the rest of the yadda yadda that follows. If you have so much control- why is it such a big deal to imagine a life w/out it?

 

Just a thought.

 

Anyway- What about a compromise- Celebrations only. Think about it- just about every month there is a wedding, birthday, holiday, something that would allow you a monthly celebration. Mrs Moose may be happier as long as it's not part of a lifestyle (daily, weekly, etc...)

[Moose]

Originally posted by tikibrandy

But doesn't your wife have the right to ask you to quit, especially based on the history? And wouldn't you quit for her, no matter what her preference stems from?

 

I don't look at it as a right. If I were getting drunk like I used to, then I could see a reason to quit. And yes I would quit for her, but that's not right. I wouldn't ever ask her to quit going to our Church, or change anything about her lifestyle. That wouldn't be right of me either.

 

Faye, I did answer my own question??? I didn't see it.....what should I do? Are you saying I should quit? Again, why should I change something about myself when there is no damage being done? Just to proove my love for her? My side of the family are all german/italian, you'll never get one of us to quit completly. Whenever we're together there is beer or wine......that's just the way it's always been.

 

Her asking me to quit is just as bad as me asking her to start.

 

Should I find another Church?

[quankanne]

Here's the deal. She thinks that with my past I shouldn't drink at all....nothing....ever -- I just enjoy a cold beer now and then. -- I've learned from those mistakes and I'll never let it get to that point ever again. So what's the matter?

 

in her mind, you're setting yourself up to slip back into that lifestyle. And no matter WHAT you do, that will always be at the back of her mind because she's lived through it once before.

 

I honestly don't know how you're going to be able to convince her that you've turned over a new leaf, other than talking with her and letting her know that you will limit your intake. My guess is that she's bringing in the religious factor to guilt you into "behaving."

[tiki]

Originally posted by Moose

I don't look at it as a right. If I were getting drunk like I used to, then I could see a reason to quit. And yes I would quit for her, but that's not right. I wouldn't ever ask her to quit going to our Church, or change anything about her lifestyle. That wouldn't be right of me either.

 

That's not comparable. If you're going to compare, use something with more equality. That'd be like this: her belonging to a satanic cult and it tearing the family apart. So she stops, but not completely. You ask her to stop.

 

Her going to church isn't hurting anything. Your alcoholism is. And has.

 

This is my opinion.

[Moose]

Tiki,

 

I see what you mean. Sorry for the bad comparison.

 

Her going to church isn't hurting anything. Your alcoholism is. And has.

 

They key word here is, "has", and like quankanne said, there probably isn't anything that I can do to set her mind at ease.

 

I could care less whether or not I drink. I do care that I've done a complete 180, changed so much about myself that people don't even recognize me, been through you know what and back getting over the addiction, and then I'm being asked to change even more......I don't know, I just feel like no matter what I do, I will never make her 100% happy, and I'm going to have to live with that.

 

Still, should I continue to go to a Church that doesn't believe the way I believe?

[tiki]

YES!!! You will never agree with your church 100%. Do what you feel is right. If drinking in moderation is right, then do it! I don't consider moderation a couple a day, but that's just me. I have a massive family history of alcohol addiction that I try to steer clear of. Is two beers a day moderation or an alcoholic? It's all in the way you perceive it.

 

Sorry about the cult reference. It was a bad analogy...but you get what I meant. I probably should have compared it to something less brutal, but you get the point.

 

You asked her to stop a bi-sexual thought that would cause the relationship pain, didn't you? So what's the difference? Why can't she ask you to stop drinking and you not get in a huff? Look at your history Moose, you're an alcoholic, right? Won't you always be one? Can you break free now, even if you wanted? Be honest.

[quankanne]

I will never make her 100% happy, and I'm going to have to live with that

 

it's not that she wants you to make her 100 percent happy -- its that she just doesn't trust the sitation, even if you DO completely give up the beers you occasionally enjoy. I think it's more about the possibility of what *might* happen, rather than what *is* happening. Speaking frankly? I'm the same way with my husband -- the meds he takes for pain has caused him to be disinterested in drinking (sugar is the new addiction, i.e. chocolate), but I don't fully trust the heathen to not slip back into his old ways!

 

Still, should I continue to go to a Church that doesn't believe the way I believe?

 

don't let the issue of light drinking -- or some other enjoyable activity -- be the deciding factor. If you feel good about your spiritual home otherwise, take some time to discern whether this relatively minor issue is worth throwing what you have with your church community away.

 

If worse comes to worst, you can always become Catholic! We've got a loophole called "confession" so that if we do go past the moderation rule of thumb, there's still hope to get back on the right track!

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by Moose

On the link that Faye gave me, it says on the very bottom that southern baptists and united methodists oppose all use of alcohol because of it's great potential of abuse.

 

I can agree with that to a certain degree, if a person can't handle it, or doesn't realize when to stop, then they shouldn't be doing it.

 

That was me several years ago. I mean, I drank a case a day every day. I was welding back then and my job was physically demanding. I have a bad back and I think I was self medicating. Now that I've gotten into so much trouble over it and caused so much pain in my family, I only have a few after work, and I never, EVER get too buzzed to where I couldn't think straight.

 

Anyway. last night I could tell that something was bothering Mrs. Moose. When I asked her she said that she'd tell me when she's ready. Well, that kinda ticked me off because I'm not one to wait around doing nothing when there may be a problem between us. Well, now I was in a bad mood, and she was mad at me because I didn't say, "It's all right, I'll be here when you're ready". And I can see her view. She should know though, that if I don't know exactley what's going on, I get very paranoid! Well, that's all over now.

 

She's our family driver, hauls me to work, kids to school, picks everyone up....yada, yada.......When she dropped me off this morning, I asked her how long am I going to have to wait and worry before she'll tell me what's bothering her.

 

She said that she doesn't feel right whenever she takes me to the store and I buy beer. Well, I told her not to do it anymore then, I'll find other ways to go after it. She said she didn't want to talk about it last night because she didn't want to confront me about it in front of the kids and she was trying to come up with a way to approach me without causing a fight.

 

Here's the deal. She thinks that with my past I shouldn't drink at all....nothing....ever. I don't feel that way. I keep it way under control and never do I drink so much that I turn into someone else. I just enjoy a cold beer now and then. In my mind, I know that I've caused all kinds of problems with it. I've learned from those mistakes and I'll never let it get to that point ever again. So what's the matter?

 

My thing is, if she believes I shouldn't and the Church we go to doesn't allow it, then what should I do? I refuse to quit just because the Church looks down on it, and I'm refuse to give it up just because my wife believes the way the Church does.

 

What should I do?

 

You don't need alcohol to be happy. You went through a period that bordered on alcoholism, if you're not a "true" alcoholic yourself. I sympathize with her concern-you should be giving it up because it makes her WORRY, and because you tormented your family with your drinking. Pick up non alcoholic beer at the grocery store if you miss the taste. It's not vital to your happiness or survival....

 

If drinking was the SOLE CAUSE of your misery and unhappiness, then you should never touch the stuff again. That's why it's called an addiction. There is life after drug and alcohol addiction, it's just not particularly fun.

 

Your past history with it explains your wife's uncomfortableness, and I don't blame her. The fact that you both appear to be fairly religious isn't helping her much. If you find yourself questioning your faith, or your beliefs, talk to your pastor or whatever.

 

But this statement -

 

I keep it way under control and never do I drink so much that I turn into someone else. I just enjoy a cold beer now and then. In my mind, I know that I've caused all kinds of problems with it. I've learned from those mistakes and I'll never let it get to that point ever again. So what's the matter?

 

My thing is, if she believes I shouldn't and the Church we go to doesn't allow it, then what should I do? I refuse to quit just because the Church looks down on it, and I'm refuse to give it up just because my wife believes the way the Church does

 

sounds to me like a man who is in denial about just how much is actions have hurt others. Yes, it's in the past-but addictions have a nasty way of rearing their heads in the present and future.

 

"Refusing to quit" because someone tells you to nonwithstanding, I think the point is that you should NEVER want to drink alcohol again if you were really and trully addicted to it, because you KNOW how much you like it-and the temptation is always there. It's why people who go through AA don't drink afterwards.

[tiki]

Spock raises a lot of good points.

 

My father has been sober for like three months. He counts the days. He went to AA and he is a success. He can't drink socially, he tried that. It landed him in AA with a terribly distraught family.

 

I hope you make the right decision, Moose. Your Uma needs you. You are the spine of that family. You are supposed to be what keeps it together. Keep it together. Continue to be a good role model. Act like one.

[Moose]

You asked her to stop a bi-sexual thought that would cause the relationship pain, didn't you? So what's the difference? Why can't she ask you to stop drinking and you not get in a huff? Look at your history Moose, you're an alcoholic, right? Won't you always be one? Can you break free now, even if you wanted? Be honest.

 

You have a point there, but I didn't ask her to stop thinking about it, I just asked her to not go through with it. Yes, I'm an alcoholic, and yes, I can break free right now if I wanted.

 

She likes to eat chocolate.....ALOT.....she even has withdrawls if it's been a while since she's had any......what would you think if I asked her to stop eating chocolate because I'm afraid she'll gain too much weight or it gives her pimples.....would that be right of me? I wouldn't think so......but this is ok? I know that no trouble ever came from eating chocolate and you can't get arrested for driving under the influence of chocolate, but it could still lead to weight gain which is a health issue.

 

Does that make more sense?

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by Moose

You have a point there, but I didn't ask her to stop thinking about it, I just asked her to not go through with it. Yes, I'm an alcoholic, and yes, I can break free right now if I wanted.

 

She likes to eat chocolate.....ALOT.....she even has withdrawls if it's been a while since she's had any......what would you think if I asked her to stop eating chocolate because I'm afraid she'll gain too much weight or it gives her pimples.....would that be right of me? I wouldn't think so......but this is ok? I know that no trouble ever came from eating chocolate and you can't get arrested for driving under the influence of chocolate, but it could still lead to weight gain which is a health issue.

 

Does that make more sense?

 

Moose, again you're trying to excuse your drinking. Please realize it's what you're doing. The comparison of alcohol and chocolate is rediculous. Do NOT say that you're "better" if you are an alcoholic and you continue to drink.

 

What you need to do is come to terms with the fact that alcohol has such a grip on your life that you cannot give it up. It has such a hold on you that you don't WANT to. Listen to yourself. Mr Religious, whom I've debated with on the boards about issues on abortion, infidelity, marriage, divorce-you NEED your beer SO MUCH you're considering leaving your church for it.

 

No one can make you stop drinking until you're ready to do it.

 

What you just said above "I can break free if I wanted"

 

translates into "I can stop any time I want to". It's something I've heard before.

[Moose]

I understand that Spock, and I've already decided to quit......that's not my problem, I can quit at a drop of a hat.....and don't worry Spock, Mrs. Moose will keep tabs on me I'm sure!!! hehe

 

What you need to do is come to terms with the fact that alcohol has such a grip on your life that you cannot give it up. It has such a hold on you that you don't WANT to. Listen to yourself. Mr Religious, whom I've debated with on the boards about issues on abortion, infidelity, marriage, divorce-you NEED your beer SO MUCH you're considering leaving your church for it.

 

Now, THAT"S THE SPOCK I KNOW AND LOVE!!!!!

 

I don't need the beer at all, we all know that!! And you're semi right about alcohol having a grip on my life. And you're right about the only person that can make me stop is me. But what you're wrong about is that I don't need my beer so much that I'm leaving my Church. I just thought that since I don't agree with that, then maybe I should go elsewhere. But like I've said and others said, there will always be something you don't like about your home Church.....it was just a question.

 

Look, I'm the first person who knows what the stuff can do to a life....you don't need to remind me and that's for sure!! It's just something that's been on my mind, and on Mrs. Moose's mind too.

 

I got some great answers....thanks!!!