Drinking and Religion

[HokeyReligions]

Wow.

 

Okay, --Moose, you certainly do have every right to ask your wife to leave her church or stop eating chocolate. If her church is coming between you then it is an issue that needs to be addressed. If you are concerned about her eating too much chocolate and gaining weight (and all that that implies) than that is also an issue that needs to be addressed.

 

If she is adament about not drinking and it becomes a deal-breaker for her you have to ask yourself what is more important to you? Will you develop resentment over this, or can you live with it, perhaps find a non-alcoholic substitute? Perhaps she is asking herself the same thing -- "will I become resentful over his few beers a day/week?" or maybe the fact of drinking even one beer is what is keeping her from letting go of the fear that your drinking may increase again, and that fear is hard to live with. If she had been obese and lost 150 pounds, wouldn't you be afraid that if she started having a candy bar a couple times a week it would increase the likelihood of her returning to her obese size?

 

I refuse to quit just because the Church looks down on it, and I'm refuse to give it up just because my wife believes the way the Church does

.

 

Your priorities are that beer comes before your church and before your wife.

 

 

And yes I would quit for her, but that's not right. I wouldn't ever ask her to quit going to our Church, or change anything about her lifestyle. That wouldn't be right of me either.

Earlier you said you wouldn't quit for her and here you are saying you could, but you won't. Your alcohol is still at the top of your priority list.

 

 

why should I change something about myself when there is no damage being done?

!! It sure sounds to me like there IS damage being done. Mrs Moose has damaged feelings, and damaged security, and damaged hope. The communication between you is suffering damage and that means your entire relationship is being damaged. You are frustrated and upset--that is damage also.

 

 

I don't know, I just feel like no matter what I do, I will never make her 100% happy, and I'm going to have to live with that.

 

I don't believe that there is any relationship that has ever existed or will exist, that has had one partner 100% happy 100% of the time. There are compromises to be made. You have to get your priorities in order and really understand them. Then discuss them with Mrs Moose and compare them to her priorities and find ways to meet each other half way. You both also need to recognize that there will be things on each others priority lists that will not budge. Determine what those things really are. If she is not going to budge on the drinking then you need to either stop, or risk further damage to the relationship and her feelings for you--which will damage your feelings for her.

 

As for the church -- if you both decide that some drinking is OK within your relationship, but you don't want the pressure from the church - then go out and try some other churches. Together or alone, maybe she will go with you. Its not like she, or you, will be turning her back on her faith or her church family--just stretching her/your own religious horizons -- you can always return to your regular church. Maybe try a new church twice a month and continue at your present church.

 

If you decide to stop drinking completely, perhaps you can find new support from within your church to help you with the commitment.

 

I'm still confused -- you say you are going to quit completely. If the only reason you thought of leaving your church is because of their view on alcohol, and you have quit, do you still have a problem with the church?

 

Quote from Mr Spock: No one can make you stop drinking until you're ready to do it.

 

What you just said above "I can break free if I wanted"

 

translates into "I can stop any time I want to". It's something I've heard before.

Ditto

 

 

Good Luck Moose

[moimeme]

Oh the rationalizations, Moose.

 

Face it; the booze has never let you go.

 

a little buzz but that's it

 

Why? I have almost gotten a 'little buzz' once or twice and found it very unpleasant. Booze does bad things to your whole body, including your brain. Surely there are other things in life that are enjoyable? But the addiction is the addiction to the 'little buzz' that, when you drink, needs more and more alcohol to be felt.

 

why should I change something about myself when there is no damage being done

 

'Something about yourself'? Booze is a dangerous addiction. Liken it to smoking - why should someone change their addiction to harmful substances? For their health. But more importantly, because booze changes you in ways that smokes or nothing else does.

 

My side of the family are all german/italian, you'll never get one of us to quit completly. Whenever we're together there is beer or wine......that's just the way it's always been.

 

So? My family's got a bunch of alcoholics in it on my Mom's side. They often drank when they got together. And I didn't. I have a friend who's a diplomat and he never drinks, even at business functions. Lame excuse.

 

I don't know, I just feel like no matter what I do, I will never make her 100% happy, and I'm going to have to live with that.

 

Again, lame. So you can't make her 100% happy - choose any of your other flaws to continue to have but not booze. It's a seducer, Moose, and you're still in its thrall. You've conjured up a whole truckload of excuses to try to justify it - a sure sign it's got a hold on you.

 

Still, should I continue to go to a Church that doesn't believe the way I believe?

 

Better yet. The very reason that church is against booze is that booze grabs people and doesn't let go. Absolutely go to the church - AND embrace their anti-booze policy in your own life. Not because it's 'religious' in nature, because it's not. It's just good sense.

 

yes, I can break free right now if I wanted

 

Try it, Moose. Prove it. And if you find that you can't, or come up with excuses for 'just one drink' because you're hot/tired/thirsty/unhappy/happy whatever, know that you're lying to yourself. Because booze will make you lie to yourself and to everyone else.

 

She likes to eat chocolate.....ALOT.....she even has withdrawls if it's been a while since she's had any......what would you think if I asked her to stop eating chocolate because I'm afraid she'll gain too much weight or it gives her pimples

 

Bogus, bogus, bogus, bogus. Chocolate will not slur her speech, make her belligerent or goofy, prevent her from driving, knock her out, or (likely) puke her guts out. Again, a whole bunch of lame excuses because booze has seduced you and you'll deceive even yourself to stay with booze.

 

My uncle was an alcoholic. Because he loved his family, he went to two AA meetings a week and quit drinking for the rest of his life. It was difficult, but he put his family before booze. Can you?

[Mrs. Moose]

Boy, are you getting chewed out!!!

 

I'm not here to defend Moose at all, I'm just going to tell you like I see it. Moose doesn't drink everyday or even every week. It's very seldom that he does. I'm sure that if he could he would, but he knows he can't. I'm just in a struggle about TAKING him to the store to get the stuff! He's still has until June of next year before he can legally drive to the store, so he goes with me grocery shopping, he does all the time, and while we're there he'll put beer in the cart. So I see it as I'm the one helping him to get it and I feel weird about it. I think that when I told him this he assumed I told him I wanted him to quit. That's not it, I just don't feel right about helping him to go get it.

 

I have nothing against his drinking anymore, he is very careful when he does. It's just that noone on my side of the family does, and our Church frowns on it. I'm afraid to have any of our friends from Church to come out for fear that they'll see beer in the fridge or a can in the trash. I'm not worried about him ever going overboard, he knows how much damage that can do. I'm always with him if he's not at work so I know when he does drink and when he doesn't. It was 2 Saturday's ago at his brother's wedding when he last had a glass of champangne-(SW).

 

I don't ever want to put pressure on him to quit completly, I think he will someday, but if I pressure him too much, it might cause him to rebel and drink even more. Plus, I don't ever want to put a strain on our relationship either, we are still in the healing portion of this and I don't want to cause waves.

 

You guys made him sound like a drunk, and he's nowhere near what he used to be like. Like a said, he hardly ever does, but I don't see him quiting completly and I don't mind as long as it doesn't get back to the way it was before. As long as he and I keep a close eye on it, I know we'll be ok.

 

I don't want him to leave our Church either. The people there LOVE him! But I know these people and how they think too and they are really totally against alcohol!!! So I think he's just saying that out of respect for the way they view it, maybe he shouldn't be the, "bad apple", that spoils the bunch?

 

I didn't get on yesterday because I had a lot going on, but Moose did tell me about this thread and I read it all this morning. You all have a lot of great points. But I think that you mis read Moose a little.

 

I think this is a great site, and I'm glad Moose found it. I can see that you guys could be a great help for him!!!!

 

Thanks!

[Moose]

We talked about it last night, so I kinda knew that you'd write today. By the way, you're wrong!!!! hehe

Remember Chris came out last Friday to help with the new engine? Sorry, thought you knew. Anyway, who loves me at Church???? That's a new one on me!

 

And thanks for saying you won't pressure me, I love you!!

 

Face it; the booze has never let you go.

 

Moi, you're right! And according to AA it never will. I just have to deal with it and keep in mind that I can't do it alone. I have to rely on my, "Higher Power", to keep me straight. I have the advantage of my wife though too, so I'm doubled up!!

 

Your priorities are that beer comes before your church and before your wife.

 

Hokey, I don't agree, but I can see how you'd come to that conclusion.

 

We worked out a comprimise last night. And I think it'll work just fine. I'm to keep my beer in my fridge out in the shop, and I will figure a way that I can get it on my own, if I need to get any at all.

 

You guys helped me to see it through so many different eyes. I think that's what this site is best for. This way you can get all the views and opinions and make a more educated decision. Thanks you all!!!!

[moimeme]

But I think that you mis read Moose a little.

 

Glad to hear that it's all sorted out and that you weren't quite as worried as he thought you were. Good luck in your continuing battle with the demon rum, Moose!

 

BTW Mrs M, I haven't read the VERY long 'hello' thread to you yet so I'll just welcome you aboard here!

[Mrs. Moose]

Thanks moimeme!

 

He's really doing a great job!

[shortbus74]

Mrs.Moose.... I love the avatar...........

[Mrs. Moose]

Yeah, Moose loves her.....I think she's a hottie too!!!

[Scott S]

Originally posted by Moose

Ok, what is everyone's view on this?

 

Mrs. Moose was taught that drinking is a big no no if you're a Christian.

 

Many will cite Proverbs 20:1 - "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."

 

In my opinion, this is not an admonition to not drink, but rather to not be an irresponsible drunk.

[Moose]

Thanks Scott. Again, my whole reason for posting this wasn't to excuse my drinking, it's just that I don't feel comfortable in our Church knowing what they believe. I also don't agree with several things going on there. So I just feel so out of place.

 

With Mrs. Moose saying that she's not comfortable, or that she feels weird taking me to the store to buy the stuff, I feel the same way about being a member of her Church. Yet, and she'll probably get upset with this, but, she expects me to be ok with her decision, and I'm suppossed to stay in her Church.

[heebiejeebies]

But the Catholics use wine for communion, don't they? Plus, Jesus turned water into wine. I think that wine is like anything, it's all in how you handle your drinking.

 

As for if you should change churches... that's a highly personal decision, and I don't feel comfortable advising you to do one or the other.

 

 

 

Take care, and good luck Moose and Mrs. Moose

 

 

Kyaten

[Scott S]

Originally posted by Moose

Thanks Scott. Again, my whole reason for posting this wasn't to excuse my drinking, it's just that I don't feel comfortable in our Church knowing what they believe. I also don't agree with several things going on there. So I just feel so out of place.

 

With Mrs. Moose saying that she's not comfortable, or that she feels weird taking me to the store to buy the stuff, I feel the same way about being a member of her Church. Yet, and she'll probably get upset with this, but, she expects me to be ok with her decision, and I'm suppossed to stay in her Church.

 

Different denominations have different views of it. Also depends on the locale.

 

Here in Wisconsin, beer is as much a part of the culture as cheese, polkas, & the Green Bay Packers. Moving back here after living in the Bible belt for 10 years was an adjustment. Especially at my sister's wedding reception. Imagine my double-take to see the pastor quaffing a Budweiser!

 

Personally, I enjoy in moderation, & I don't talk about getting blotto when socializing after church services. And I do see people I know from church going into the liquor store. Our music director & her husband enjoy wine, & their kitchen is decorated like a French vinyard.

 

Q: Why should you always take at least 2 Baptists when you go fishing?

 

A: Because if you only take one, he'll drink up all the beer!

[Scott S]

Originally posted by Mrs. Moose

Yeah, Moose loves her.....I think she's a hottie too!!!

 

But once you go Klingon, you'll never go back!!

[QsGirl]

First off, the Bible when referring to wine is reffering to a Hebrew word that means of the vine, or from the vine. Now the new wine means fresh juice from the vine. Old wine refers to the fermenting of this juice.

 

Both types of wine were stored in wine sacks, they didn't have plastic or clear containers so no one really new what kind of juice they were getting unless they fresh squeezed it themselves.

 

The bible never makes mention of a positive use of wine unless they are refering to new wine (it is mentioned that this is what Jesus will serve the saints), this new wine is also the wine being served at the wedding in question of Jesus first miracle. Honestly after drinking wine all day (if it were alcholic) no one would know what they were drinking.

 

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise. Proverbs 20:1 NKJV

 

There are many more scriptures like this one.

 

Bottom line, if you are a Christian, supposedly you live in Christ, and Jesus wouldn't have you drink things that are going to cause harm to you. Never mind the hype that drinking is good for your heart it is the major leading cause of death in North America.

[amerikajin]

There are all kinds of things that aren't good for you.

 

I am not a Christian but I was educated in a Christian school, and for a while I was a practicing Episcopalean, so I know some interpretations of the Bible at least. I think what Jesus was saying was that he didn't want people to engage in excess, and he wanted people to be responsible for their actions. That's all and nothing more.

 

I think Jesus has no problem with coming home and cracking open a Coors after a long, hard day at the office. I think he definitely does have a problem with cracking open a Coors if that one can is likely to lead to your finishing off a 12 pack. Some people just can't handle alcohol; they're either psychologically or chemically addicted to the stuff. I think that's a situation that Jesus would rather have you avoid if it all possible.

 

Likewise, Jesus has no problem with you're going out and having a Bud or two at a bar if you're riding shot-gun. But even one pop behind the wheel is something that would probably make Jesus shake his head. You're needlessly endangering the lives of your fellow man, which is selfishness, another sin in the eyes of the Lord.

 

That's my take on it.