In a bdsm relationship

[Almond_Joy]

Also wanted to add that I'm giving this perspective from witnessing something similar firsthand. One of my girlfriends was married to an unmedicated abusive OCDer for years. He abused her physically and emotionally, isolated her from everyone. Thankfully she had her own job so she had money but 2 years after finally leaving him and filing for divorce she struggles daily with the effects of that time. She's gone to therapy and had to stay with friends because he was stalking her. I spent many nights with her crying while she tried to keep moving forward with life on her own.

 

In no way am I saying she would not have gotten to where she is without the support of friends, because she is a fighter. But she still tells me to this day how thankful she is for speaking hope to her when she was sad and courage when she was scared and doing everything in my power to help her get closer to the life she wanted and deserved when she couldn't see how to herself.

 

This story hits very close to home for me and I grieve for your friend. I hope you can help her be free or she helps herself.

[concerned-friend]

This is a special circumstance where I'd recommend helping someone who can't help themselves, before it's too late.

 

Jane replies:

 

How can I just do this. We were just having sex last night and it was fun. There would be no hint. What would he think? What the hell? That's what he's going to think. I have no close friends. he's my entire world.

 

His voice is the only one I hear in my head. I'm in total and complete isolation from everyone but him.

[Almond_Joy]

My reply to Jane:

 

Luckily, Jane, you have someone in your corner that cares after your well being as a person -your friend who is posting for you.

 

You deserve better, and there is a better life available. Trust your friend and let her help you. Don't think about how hard this will be, or the state of the relationship right now. Focus on getting yourself out and do it. That should be your priority, not how the relationship's going or how things will be once you've split. Whatever happens, you will be fine. Have faith in yourself and those who really care about your well-being like your friend. I know my friend got good fortune and people in her life that she hadn't conceived or hoped for when she struck out on her own. She didn't have a plan but she found a way and is happy, and free, and truly loved.

 

You don't need a whole lot of people to change this. You and your friend can figure something out.

[Almond_Joy]

Jane replies:

 

His voice is the only one I hear in my head. I'm in total and complete isolation from everyone but him.

 

And just because you're alone now doesn't mean there aren't support resources available for you. You're never going to find them if you don't get out there and start looking for them. They're not just gonna fall in your lap, you need to take the first step and reach out.

[CarrieT]

My reply to Jane:

What would he think?

Who cares what he would think? He would KNOW that you have and are unhappy and are taking steps to change your life. For you.

 

I have no close friends. he's my entire world.

What about the friend that is posting here for you?

 

And -- most importantly -- YOU, Jane, need to be your entire world.

 

Read that again! You cannot live for another human being. You have to live for yourself.

 

His voice is the only one I hear in my head. I'm in total and complete isolation from everyone but him.

This is a classic symptom of an abused person. The guy has completely engulfed Jane's life to the exclusion and isolates the abused.

 

Jane, you need to cut the cord from this guy ASAP - for your own safety and health.

[CarrieT]

Bumping this in hopes that Concerned Friend and/or Jane will report back...

[concerned-friend]

Bumping this in hopes that Concerned Friend and/or Jane will report back...

 

This is concerned-friend:

 

There is also another push factor for her, which is that she's going crazy with boredom and the isolation, so she's looking for a job. She just needs a few more weeks to complete her internship to receive certification, after which she can find a job. If she leaves prior to that, her leave may not be sustainable.

 

If she has a job when she leaves, she'll have co-workers in a healthy environment, her self esteem improves, and she'd have a deserved sense of accomplishment that's been lacking most of her life. Given the benefits of finding a job, I think it's worth staying a little bit longer.

 

Thanks to all of you, this thread has made her begin to see that the abusive behavior is not normal or deserved although it will take time to fully sink in.

 

I'll keep this thread up to date as events unfold. I also gave her the password, so she can post directly. Let's hope she gets the internship soon but I'll be watching out for her daily.

[CarrieT]

CF, please report back and let Jane know that she can come here for support anytime.

 

I am seriously concerned about her...

[Mycatsnuggles]

Jane needs to contact a domestic violence center. They can offer her emotional support and tools for developing her confidence to make an appropriate decision. It's good your a supportive friend - tell her to call they can give her assistance over the phone. Buy a disposable phone if she has to. Have her google domestic violence. national hotline number 18007997233.

 

 

She needs to develop a safety plan. Begin stashing money, collecting documents (birth certificate, ins card, car registration) make a plan. Leaving is the most dangerous time in a DV situation and from the post he appears to be a potential danger. Are there guns in the home? All questions she will be asked. Their very first question will be are you safe? Making that first call is the hardest step. They will not force you to leave DV counselors follow the lead of the person calling. If she chooses to stay they will work with her to create a safety plan. PLEASE CALL

[concerned-friend]

Jane needs to contact a domestic violence center. They can offer her emotional support and tools for developing her confidence to make an appropriate decision. It's good your a supportive friend - tell her to call they can give her assistance over the phone. Buy a disposable phone if she has to. Have her google domestic violence. national hotline number 18007997233.

 

 

She needs to develop a safety plan. Begin stashing money, collecting documents (birth certificate, ins card, car registration) make a plan. Leaving is the most dangerous time in a DV situation and from the post he appears to be a potential danger. Are there guns in the home? All questions she will be asked. Their very first question will be are you safe? Making that first call is the hardest step. They will not force you to leave DV counselors follow the lead of the person calling. If she chooses to stay they will work with her to create a safety plan. PLEASE CALL

 

This is c-f:

 

Thanks for the number. It's a very good idea and I'll push for it. I don't know how well she'll take it because she feels she's enabled everything to happen through her own choices, but at least she's starting to see that what's happening isn't right.

[Mycatsnuggles]

They are trained to be totally non judge mental. Many are former victims of DV they understand the emotional ties to the abuser, the financial ties. I worked at one for awhile. It was very fulfilling work and the clients showed AMAZING strength and resilience! They can help her. It can be very comforting to talk with a stranger, why people post on LS. But a DV center can offered experienced support.

 

Domestic violence is not just physical. It's emotional, financial, sexual and physical. DV is about power and control...

[CarrieT]

she feels she's enabled everything to happen through her own choices.

 

She needs to learn that what has happened to her has been through the process of manipulation to the extent that she believes she has enabled it.

 

This is why calling a domestic abuse hotline is a great idea; a non-involved professional will help her understand that she can take control of the situation.

[CC12]

This is concerned-friend:

 

There is also another push factor for her, which is that she's going crazy with boredom and the isolation, so she's looking for a job. She just needs a few more weeks to complete her internship to receive certification, after which she can find a job. If she leaves prior to that, her leave may not be sustainable.

 

If she has a job when she leaves, she'll have co-workers in a healthy environment, her self esteem improves, and she'd have a deserved sense of accomplishment that's been lacking most of her life. Given the benefits of finding a job, I think it's worth staying a little bit longer.

 

Thanks to all of you, this thread has made her begin to see that the abusive behavior is not normal or deserved although it will take time to fully sink in.

 

concerned-friend, I have some questions for you.

 

Did Jane ask you to make this thread? Does she want to leave her boyfriend? Did she ask for your help? Because there's something about the words you use when you talk about this that are coming off as overbearing, to put it kindly. I went back through the thread and the few parts that Jane supposedly wrote herself don't say anything about her wanting to be out of this relationship.

 

Most of what you've written in this thread seems to be your own opinions of Jane's relationship. What is your goal?

[therhythm]

. What is your goal?

 

I thought that was clear... helping his/her friend from a domestic violence/abuse situation...

[blueskyday]

You are a good friend. The next thing that needs to happen is that you accompany her to a domestic violence shelter support group meeting. When she walks in and sees 20 women in the same situation she's in, her heart will fill. I know mine did. The group I went to literally saved my life. I couldn't believe we we're all dating the same exact man! Abusive men are very uncreative and all the same! It will all click for her. The support that she will get is unparalleled. He's a classic abuser, and she is a classic victim of it. She believes it is her fault and that she made this happen. Not true. a good kind man would not react to the same thing in the same abusive way he does. Not her fault.

Edited May 24, 2013 by blueskyday

[blueskyday]

sorry for the double post, but I want to add that when you take her to this meeting, she can sit there and be silent. She doesn't have to talk at all if she doesn't want to. Just get her there. Tell you want to take her out to dinner and to some place very special. Then walk in and sit next to her and hold her hand. She just may cry the whole time, and that's fine. Take this decision to go out of her control because she's not in a frame of mind to make it. However, she must make the decision on her own to leave him. What you do is offer her so much support and love that she will go to that instead of him. You and a support group will show her what true love and support feel like. Then she will begin to depend on that. The purpose of the support group is to make her feel strong, so that she won't actually have to go to anymore. She will internalize that strength.

Edited May 24, 2013 by blueskyday

[concerned-friend]

By c-f:

 

She called the DV hotline today. They told her it was abuse and asked her to visit a local support group. However, she feels the situation really isn't that bad and she doesn't like the turmoil that this creates in her head.

 

I'm still encouraging her to tell a close family member what's happening so she won't feel as isolated. She says everyone loves her boyfriend, no one wants to hear about this, and they wouldn't support her anyway.

 

She's planning on leaving after a few months, and would prefer to focus on positive thoughts until then. I emphasized that she should have a support network in place, family on her side, and knowing the best way to do leave. However, she prefers to avoid all conflict until she gets to that point.

 

You are a good friend. The next thing that needs to happen is that you accompany her to a domestic violence shelter support group meeting. When she walks in and sees 20 women in the same situation she's in, her heart will fill. I know mine did. The group I went to literally saved my life. I couldn't believe we we're all dating the same exact man! Abusive men are very uncreative and all the same! It will all click for her. The support that she will get is unparalleled. He's a classic abuser, and she is a classic victim of it. She believes it is her fault and that she made this happen. Not true. a good kind man would not react to the same thing in the same abusive way he does. Not her fault.

 

I wouldn't have a problem flying out there, but she really doesn't want to deal with this. She feels the situation is not as bad as it looks, and I don't think anyone will change her mind.

 

I appreciate the encouragement, but have to say I'm emotionally exhausted. I hope some of this will sink in over time.

Edited May 25, 2013 by concerned-friend

[Mycatsnuggles]

Jane, I just want to tell you your story NOT the worst I have heard working in the DV shelter. Many women have horrible stories. You will not shock them. You will find others in situations similar. You state your safe, I get not wanting to leave, it's ok. You have to decide on your own time frame. Keep calling. Try to go there. You need emotional support. To be honest I understand your hesitation about telling family. Don't reveal all start small with your closets family member. "Sometimes xx hurts me and I'm afraid of him" see how they respond. Keep reaching out. I'm proud of you for making the call. I know that was really hard.

[summerdowling87]

So this guy is into BDMS and he gets pissed if things do go his way or if things get out of control or if you want to stop?

 

Are you sure he's not into Sadomasochism?

[Vinegar]

This situation is horrible! He's an abuser. Work on getting out right away!

[Thegameoflife]

I think I might be seeing this situation differently than everyone else here. From my perspective, the issue is that your wants have changed, and so have your doms. You went from being a young woman who wanted to be displayed to others amongst other things, but now you want to move away from that scene to be a submissive, moreso only for him in privacy. Your boyfriend on the other hand, told you he just wanted a submissive, but now he wants a slave. He's grooming you towards your new role, but you don't want it, or a lot of the situations he wants you to partake in. I don't see a massive abuse or injustice here, but rather two people who are not being open and clear about what they want. A major part of BDSM is openess and dialogue about what both parties wants. You could apply that to every relationship.

 

Despite what others here think, this isn't abuse. The reason it's not abuse, is because you don't protest. He's doing things that are normal within the community for the most part. You haven't really had a conversation with him outside of your roles in your relationship. You need to sit down and have a serious talk about what you both want.

 

However, I'm a little more clever than most here. For one thing, your views of things have become very much buyer's remorse. Buyer's remorse is when you buy into something at the time, but hate the decision later. When you go with him, you know that you're taking part in a lot of these things because the excitement of the situation outweighs your hesitation at the time, but later you don't feel good about how the situation went down. I think you know inside your head what the real problem is here.

 

The real problem is that you know that he wants a slave, and you aren't one. If you're thinking he'll probably leave you if you tell him that, you're probably right. Many dom/sub relationship don't last long due to incompatible desires. Subs tend to jockey around until they find a more suitable match. However, what you're doing is playing up on other people's responses to justify in your head that the situation is abusive, when you're actually just witholding your protest. I'm calling bullsh*t on you, but you do need to discuss the situation with your boyfriend. If he's not willing to hear you out and understand your feelings, he doesn't love you, and he's what you call a dominant jerk. If he tells you that you can't leave and to do what he says, then get out. I'd have a full plan of how you can leave the situation before you have the talk. Good Luck!

[concerned-friend]

I think I might be seeing this situation differently than everyone else here. From my perspective, the issue is that your wants have changed, and so have your doms. You went from being a young woman who wanted to be displayed to others amongst other things, but now you want to move away from that scene to be a submissive, moreso only for him in privacy. Your boyfriend on the other hand, told you he just wanted a submissive, but now he wants a slave. He's grooming you towards your new role, but you don't want it, or a lot of the situations he wants you to partake in. I don't see a massive abuse or injustice here, but rather two people who are not being open and clear about what they want. A major part of BDSM is openess and dialogue about what both parties wants. You could apply that to every relationship.

 

Despite what others here think, this isn't abuse. The reason it's not abuse, is because you don't protest. He's doing things that are normal within the community for the most part. You haven't really had a conversation with him outside of your roles in your relationship. You need to sit down and have a serious talk about what you both want.

 

However, I'm a little more clever than most here. For one thing, your views of things have become very much buyer's remorse. Buyer's remorse is when you buy into something at the time, but hate the decision later. When you go with him, you know that you're taking part in a lot of these things because the excitement of the situation outweighs your hesitation at the time, but later you don't feel good about how the situation went down. I think you know inside your head what the real problem is here.

 

The real problem is that you know that he wants a slave, and you aren't one. If you're thinking he'll probably leave you if you tell him that, you're probably right. Many dom/sub relationship don't last long due to incompatible desires. Subs tend to jockey around until they find a more suitable match. However, what you're doing is playing up on other people's responses to justify in your head that the situation is abusive, when you're actually just witholding your protest. I'm calling bullsh*t on you, but you do need to discuss the situation with your boyfriend. If he's not willing to hear you out and understand your feelings, he doesn't love you, and he's what you call a dominant jerk. If he tells you that you can't leave and to do what he says, then get out. I'd have a full plan of how you can leave the situation before you have the talk. Good Luck!

 

Written by c-f:

 

I suggest rereading this which makes it clear she's had discussions with her boyfriend and make it clear she's not a sub, much less a slave.

 

Also, she's always defending her boyfriend so I doubt she said she's in an abusive relationship. It's everyone else that says she's in an abusive relationship, not her.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/395144-bdsm-relationship-2.html#post4906865

Edited May 26, 2013 by concerned-friend

[CC12]

Despite what others here think, this isn't abuse. The reason it's not abuse, is because you don't protest.

 

This is false. Abuse can still occur even if the victim doesn't protest. If my boyfriend slaps me, I don't have to say, "Please don't slap me" in order for what he did to qualify as abuse.

 

He's doing things that are normal within the community for the most part.

 

Not really. It's not normal within the community to do things to a partner who doesn't want it, and who hasn't expressly stated that she does want it. A lack of a "no" doesn't mean "yes."

 

He's brought her into this "community" without her consent. She said, "I grudgingly say ok to many things. However, I've told him enough times that that I'm not a submissive that he knows when I go along that I'm just making him happy. I'm just going through motions and it's just an act."

 

You haven't really had a conversation with him outside of your roles in your relationship. You need to sit down and have a serious talk about what you both want.

 

When she told him she didn't like something he did, he said, "I don't give a **** what you want. If I want to leave you tied up for an hour and leave and take off, then I will do that." And this wasn't a part of a scene, he said this to her when she brought it up after the fact. So I'm not sure why you think having a civil conversation with him will magically solve these problems.

 

However, I'm a little more clever than most here. For one thing, your views of things have become very much buyer's remorse. Buyer's remorse is when you buy into something at the time, but hate the decision later. When you go with him, you know that you're taking part in a lot of these things because the excitement of the situation outweighs your hesitation at the time, but later you don't feel good about how the situation went down. I think you know inside your head what the real problem is here.

 

I think you've either ignored or are not clever enough to notice the parts where he has isolated her from having much of a life outside of him. He's had her quit jobs and other opportunities and has taken over the use of her car. He's taken away much of her independence, and it's left her feeling that she owes him these sexual favors and can't say no. It's not "buyer's remorse," it's the thought process of someone who has been broken down by abuse.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, to concerned-friend: It's honorable that you're trying to help your friend. She does need it. But if she doesn't want it, you can't force it on her. Trying to convince her is emotionally exhausting for you and probably for her, too. Just be her friend for now, and if she decides to leave him, do whatever you can at that point.

 

To Jane: I hope seeing the opinions of strangers on the internet has helped somehow, and that you didn't feel browbeaten or anything. You deserve a better partner, and I think most of us who heard your story would agree. When you decide to leave him, you know you have at least one good friend who will support you. Good luck with everything.

Edited May 27, 2013 by CC12

[Thegameoflife]

Written by c-f:

 

I suggest rereading this which makes it clear she's had discussions with her boyfriend and make it clear she's not a sub, much less a slave.

 

Also, she's always defending her boyfriend so I doubt she said she's in an abusive relationship. It's everyone else that says she's in an abusive relationship, not her.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/395144-bdsm-relationship-2.html#post4906865

 

I think it's very clear she is his sub, whether she wants to be or not. She has taken on the role willingly, regardless of her reluctance.

[Thegameoflife]

This is false. Abuse can still occur even if the victim doesn't protest. If my boyfriend slaps me, I don't have to say, "Please don't slap me" in order for what he did to qualify as abuse.

 

 

 

Not really. It's not normal within the community to do things to a partner who doesn't want it, and who hasn't expressly stated that she does want it. A lack of a "no" doesn't mean "yes."

 

He's brought her into this "community" without her consent. She said, "I grudgingly say ok to many things. However, I've told him enough times that that I'm not a submissive that he knows when I go along that I'm just making him happy. I'm just going through motions and it's just an act."

 

 

 

When she told him she didn't like something he did, he said, "I don't give a **** what you want. If I want to leave you tied up for an hour and leave and take off, then I will do that." And this wasn't a part of a scene, he said this to her when she brought it up after the fact. So I'm not sure why you think having a civil conversation with him will magically solve these problems.

 

 

 

I think you've either ignored or are not clever enough to notice the parts where he has isolated her from having much of a life outside of him. He's had her quit jobs and other opportunities and has taken over the use of her car. He's taken away much of her independence, and it's left her feeling that she owes him these sexual favors and can't say no. It's not "buyer's remorse," it's the thought process of someone who has been broken down by abuse.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, to concerned-friend: It's honorable that you're trying to help your friend. She does need it. But if she doesn't want it, you can't force it on her. Trying to convince her is emotionally exhausting for you and probably for her, too. Just be her friend for now, and if she decides to leave him, do whatever you can at that point.

 

To Jane: I hope seeing the opinions of strangers on the internet has helped somehow, and that you didn't feel browbeaten or anything. You deserve a better partner, and I think most of us who heard your story would agree. When you decide to leave him, you know you have at least one good friend who will support you. Good luck with everything.

 

Actually you really do have to say know. If I just started having sex with a person and they didn't say "no", it's not rape. In some relationships, a slap might be foreplay.

 

You say she didn't concent, but that's not true. All she'd have to do is refuse to go to such parties or events that she doesn't want to do. She didn't have to have sex with women she wasn't attracted to. If someone told me I had to have sex with a man, I'd laugh in there face, and walk away. The fact of the matter is that she didn't.

 

She says she is just trying to make her boyfriend happy, and it's just an act. She's playing the role of a submissive, and a subs main goal is to make her dom or master happy. She's a slave to him, if she does what he wants to make him happy.

 

Of course he's isolated her. He's grooming her to be his slave, and she has willingly done this. If you shot someone with a gun, and then said I didn't really want to do it, should anyone care about your argument.