wife of 10 years told me friday she wants to separate!?

[mike23]

After 10 years my wife "out of the blue" wants to separate. She says it's been mounting for years but this was completely unexpected to me. It's like being thrown into a nightmare. I was so angry at first I was telling she "can't leave" and I "won't allow" this to happen, I was freaking out. The next day I was calmer and admitted I can't stop her, she can do what she is going to do, but still argued I didn't want it to happen, that it would destroy our two children (both under 10). I was being more reasonable, but it was still very ugly. I said she must literally have gone crazy, I couldn't understand how else she is doing this to us. She was deluded I think, imagining we could take turns in the family home and the kid would be fine with it. I told her I will not move out, but if she has to she can.

 

A few days later we are both calmer she says maybe it is premature to separate, not because she feels better about the marriage but just because she thinks I can't do it amicably like she wants, or that her privacy would be ruined (her friends, family and her many clients). So she's saying we should each work on things alone, and maybe go to MC although she's very reluctant to do that. Which sounds promising but she is ice cold and still really does want to separate as soon as she can figure out how to do it gracefully. I'm scared to death because not so much because I love her, which I do, but because I just can't bear to be divorced, to put the kids through it, to have to tell everyone she left me, to be single. Which is maybe are shallow reasons, but that is my immediate reaction to all this. Fear I suppose.

 

So a twist is I'm bipolar but well controlled, not hospitalized in 8 years, I hold down a steady high paying job. But it is a struggle juggling medication and trying different things. Sometimes I do wonder if I can keep working, how man years I have left to work. At my worst I wonder if I can live, never seriously contemplated suicide but just that feeling of how can I possibly keep this up 40 more years. I struggle with my health and my job. So I think of big complaint of hers is just take her and the marriage for granted and don't work on it. And I guess I do because I'm struggling just to survive.

 

One of her observations, a rare level-headed one, was that she does things to make me happy, I do things to make her not mad. That I only take it things far enough to keep me out of trouble. Which I can believe, like I said my life is a struggle and so know I lean on her because I'm dealing with "bigger" issues. She was supportive, but now I find out she has been cursing my name while supporting me. So yes I'm probably just not a very good husband by her extremely high standards. She has high standards in everything, especially from people.

 

One of her minor complaints she mentioned more than once during these arguments was that I forget to take out the recycling. This is happened maybe 4 times recently after probably 300 times of taking it out (6 years). And her reasoning is if you can't be responsible about that, how can you be responsible about the marriage. This makes her sounds crazy, but in general she's not. I think instead she's just super pissed about the marriage, and therefore is blowing up over minor stuff.

 

At first she was just furious but once calmer admitted she doesn't really understand why she is so angry with me. That it might be something for her to explore with a counselor -- although she is reluctant to do that. She said maybe she will do MC, but she is far more reluctant about that. She mainly says I'm the one that needs to work things. I see a psychiatrist regularly for bipolar but is more about medicine and staying functional, not my marriage. I'm happy to see someone else as well, but I'd rather do MC I feel like without her side of the story there is nothing much to talk about.

 

I feel awful that she's been so miserable. And selfishly worse to realize I'm a failure as a husband, in her eyes. Weirdly I feel awful that I've failed while trying, while spending every minute with the family and helping out a lot (though doing definitely less than she does). Strangely I wish I had cheated on her or was doing drugs or something that unambiguously jeopardized the marriage. As it is, it's like I'm in a fist fight with a fog, I can swing but not make contact. It's like getting cut from a team you've played for for 10 years, and finding out for the last 6 years you haven't been up to snuff, they just didn't have the nerve to tell you.

 

I ordered the 5 top books from amazon on saving your marriage. She is going to say "too little too late" but I don't know what else to do except dive and try to figure this out. It's a horrible feeling to have something so big completely out of your control, in someone else's hands, someone who at least for the moment hates your guts. I hate this feeling.

 

I don't have any friends or family I feel I can take this too. So I ask you, random forum I picked after doing one google search, what should I do? Maybe more importantly what should I not do, figuring there a million ways to screw this up, and I feel like I've probably already done a bunch of them in our first few fights about this. I find myself wishing more than I thought it was possible to wish that things could go back to how they were -- although now I know she hated how they were so that is a bit of a wrinkle.

[Simpleoldschool]

First you need to come to a place in your mind where you can assess your feelings and familiarize yourself with each one and why. Since you are bipolar, such a thing might be complicated because you will have mixed feelings about your own feelings.

 

My first piece of advice is THIS. take out a pen and pencil. write down all of your positive and negative traits. things you beilieve of yourself and see where those traits hang. to the left or to the right of what youve done in your marriage.

 

Now understanding women for men is almost an impossible job. so dont sweat what shes thinking or feeling. the only thing you need to worry about it your safety.

 

to be completely honest a range of actions and reactions when the bomb is leveled are absolutely normal. however never hurt anyone. its ok to feel angry but not to do something while your angry you will regret if that makes sense.

 

Your wife could be unhappy for a couple of reasons but the primary reason shes unhappy she will not tell you. its not your job to figure out its her job to be honest with you herself and to others.

 

First release your grip. the tighther you hold onto something to more it will kick scream and bite its way out. in love you must gently hold someone in a place where they want to be. If you wife wants to leave i would simply say this

 

" obviously you have concerns about this marriage that you beilieve will not allow it to last. i know that i cannot change your mind, however based on the way i feel about you if you both love and care about me i beilieve we can manage through this one thing at a time and come out of this better people and in a better marriage. Is that ok with you."

 

if she says "no" say OK! thank you for your time. what you dont see in the immediate moment is her thoughts. if its not something you've tried before thats a catylist towards hope. hope she will have and wait, wait wait wait.

 

honestly you shouldnt be too concerned about this. the more emotion you show rather than resolve will emotionally complicate things with frquencys in the opposite. the more you try to get her to stay the more she runs. when you let her feel equally important and able to be where she is doing what she wants while being with you the easier it is.

 

i dont know your wife so i cant couensel you on whether or not shes the primary offender however the comment you made that you said you should have cheated makes me wonder. also the lie of not wanting the kids to go through something is subdiversion. its what you and your wife are in control of.

 

to be honest marital couenseling doesnt work. its a practice. i dont like someone who is practicing working with something like a delicate marital situation. they are professionals by title but you know what you and your wife need they simply bring you to emotional levels you can express yourself with eachother openly and without judgement.

 

the reason she got onto you about the recycling regardless of whether or not you've done it a million times is because shes holding onto resentment. you did something whatever it was to change her mental frame or you did nothing at all and this is who she is.

 

i cant tell you to remember ten years so this isnt something you can base off of any history. the more you bring up about who did what and who didnt do what and who is doing this and that the more you will fight.

 

YOU WANT TO NON-JUDGEMENTALLY LET YOUR WIFE KNOW SHE CAN TELL YOU WHATS BOTHERING HER AND SHE CAN BE COMFORTABLE SAYING IT BECAUSE YOU CARE ABOUT WHAT IS BOTHERING HER, YOUR WIFE.

 

if it sounds stupid i mean like i never loved you. get up and walk.

 

but if its something thats bothering her its something thats making her feel a certain way. You simply need to REQUEST if she would be ok to talk with you and tell you whats really bothering her because you both care about her and your marriage because she is a part of it and the part of it that makes you the most happy.

 

then LISTEN TO WHAT SHE IS SAYING. dont form opinions look through her eyes talking to you about what it is that bothers her. then make her feel involved if she agrees as to what SHE THINKS can help. remember nothing is too much for your wife. unless it gets your hurt your children hurt or your kids.

 

you need to be emotionally balanced when you talk to her because if not then you will mount ontop of why she already resents you one more reason to divorce. you need to wind down and subtract all of her reasons to divorce you to even see why she should want to be with you. her heart sounds like its hardened towards you. i get you though this is hard but instead of putting emotional thought into whats happening and filling everything your wife is doing with the sense of your own emotions.

 

BE CALM, BE PRESENTABLE AND MOST OF ALL LISTEN TO HER AND REQUEST A TIME FOR HER TO SHARE HER FEELINGS WITH YOU. ask her if its ok to write everything down and her advice on how to fix the issue if thats what she wants.

 

then tell her thank you. then since you have placated her it will be fair to request another time to sit down with her and say this is what your doing to fix the problem. tell her you are sorry for the way she feels and you would like to make it up to her by taking her on a date. just as two people. dont TALK ABOUT THE PROBLEMS. act like your dating. pull out her chair. tell her shes beautifull and that you both thank her for her time and enjoy being with her. then be you the man she fell in love with.

 

IF ALL GOS WELL. it will be easier to talk. easier to communicate. easier to get along. right now she feels she cant live with you.

 

YOUR HOMEWORK! is to find out why but not by snooping or yelling or demanding. simply see what shes doing. just be carefull and most of all take your time. you rush anything your just rushing a day in court.

 

You CAN do this but it depends on whether you truly want to.

[Simpleoldschool]

also tell her this. is it ever too late for a mariage. tell her you beilieve the best time a marriage can have is a recovery. where you realize her reasons for wanting a divorce and the ways you can be the person she wants to be married to. if you can truly be that person.

 

Its never too late its a matter of trying to do whats right.

 

to be honest i beilieve people are bi-polar because they are in a constant fight with themselves. their insecurity if their biggest issue. you told your wife she cant go no matter what and you wont let her leave, imagine how much that scared her. how much she wanted to run away.

 

i would. how could i be my own person enjoy my marriage if someone is forcing their way upon me?

 

realize your wife is a person not a possession. she is not yours. you do not own her. rather you should be concerned on how you treat her. how she feels. what youve done to her heart.

 

i want you to get into the practice of self-realization. are you a good person or are you not.

 

are you insecure or are you secure.

 

are you jealous or are you not jealous.

 

are you contentious or considerate.

 

since i beilieve you might be very insecure with your self-image i have something for you to practice. tell yourself you are normal. out loud when no ones around. that you will and have balanced emotions. this new world will seem surreal it will seem scary but it is a path to recovery.

 

if you are mad, ask yourself at this point what has any anger solved in this relationship. anger is the result of loss of control or a violation of boundaries.

 

however, anger does not fix either. it only stimulates a reaction worse by the person receiving the anger.

 

you need to take a step way back. look at yourself and then present yourself opposite of the way youve been according to what you want to do to actually save your marriage.

 

tell her what you beilieve is wrong with you. what youve been doing and show her initiative. if anything she will be doing the thinking of wanting to stay and you will be focusing on you doing the work.

 

who knows. maybe you will start having sex again and etc.

 

however the biggest mistake people make is to fall in the same routine. we are people of habitual choice and perfectionists of our own habbits.

 

any habit you undertake becomes easier with practice.

 

try to tell her her feelings are important to you even in divorce. she wont know how to respond i guarentee it. you are stepping outside of yourself and assuming her position. the position of wanting a divorce. in my opinion those who relate with eachother often benefit. tell her you are this kind of person. you are sorry for being that way and you agree that she has a reason to want a divorce.

 

wait and pause and see her reaction. it will be one of two things.

 

a. she will wonder and grow curious.

b. she will at first agree and then become curious.

 

either way in her mind you are changing assuming the position she is and then most of all she will have time to think and

 

a. will be more easy to approach

b. she will approach you. try the steps in my first post and some out of this one.

 

i think you can save your marriage dont you?

[Mr. Lucky]

So a twist is I'm bipolar but well controlled, not hospitalized in 8 years, I hold down a steady high paying job. But it is a struggle juggling medication and trying different things. Sometimes I do wonder if I can keep working, how man years I have left to work. At my worst I wonder if I can live, never seriously contemplated suicide but just that feeling of how can I possibly keep this up 40 more years. I struggle with my health and my job. So I think of big complaint of hers is just take her and the marriage for granted and don't work on it. And I guess I do because I'm struggling just to survive.

First off Mike, welcome to the forum.

 

Having seen close up the struggles of a family member married to a bipolar spouse, I can only guess at some of the challenges your relationship has faced. And I ask you (without judgement), have you considered that it may have been difficult to be married to you these 10 years? That watching your daily "struggle" may have made things more about you and your needs than hers?

 

I ask because she seems overflowing with resentment. And unless you can work together to find the source of that anger in a way that works for both of you, it will be a tough marital road ahead.

 

MC would certainly help both of you give voice to your feelings in a structured setting. I hope you can convince her to go. Hang in there and keep posting...

 

Mr. Lucky

[mike23]

First off Mike, welcome to the forum.

And I ask you (without judgement), have you considered that it may have been difficult to be married to you these 10 years? That watching your daily "struggle" may have made things more about you and your needs than hers?

 

Yes absolutely I know it's been difficult for her. But I guess I don't know what to do with that knowledge. I tend to say "yes yes yes I know it's been horrible for you and I wish I could make it all go away with a magic wand but I can't" which I'm sure is annoying.

 

So how do I make it up to her? I know there is nothing I can do or say to make up for years of what I guess has been an unsatisfying an unrewarding relationship. I knew it was a burden on her, but I figured it was one she was willing to take on because overall I thought things were fine. We have happy healthy kids, a beautiful house, friendly neighbors, good family relations on both sides. I thought we each accepted the crapiness of the illness for our own reasons. And it's not all doom and gloom, as I said I hold down a very good job, I help take care of the kids every day, I do stuff around the house, I'm active and engaged, just not as active or as engaged as she is. She is a super hard worker at everything he does, just off the charts high functioning. People literally can't believe it when they see what she accomplishes at work and at home -- so that's a hard comparison to make.

 

Based on these 3 thoughtful replies I have thought about things and realized where else is their this kind of dynamic in a relationship, where one person basically gives to a degree that can never be fully appreciated by the recipient? I think that's the parent-child relationship, children almost never truly understand the sacrifices that have been made by the parent. So I am the child? This is why it hurts so much because it's a double whammy. Firstly she wants to leave, and secondly she wants to leave because much of what you thought was true was not true. She has been just been putting up with me and not getting much out of it. I feel like a big charity case when I thought I was an middling-to-average husband at least.

 

Meanwhile she has cooled down considerably but I know she's deadly serious about separating. We've had fights and arguments about things like this over the years, but this the worst by a factor of 10. I know the next one she will be out the door before cooling down. And might still be. She gave me a 2 week time horizon for moving out during the fighting -- and for all I know she is sticking to it, she is just acting friendlier in the meantime.

 

We had a 3 hour fight the other day and the next day she said she didn't sleep and we need to stop doing that. Instead we should force more civility by talking out in public, at restaurants or what not, and only for 30-45 minutes so it doesn't drag on. I hated this idea but we did it once and it was helpful I think. She presented some feelings that were very clear and made me think instead of just argue back. I still need to answer her back, presumably over a lunch.

 

Meanwhile I see my regular psychiatrist tomorrow and will bring all this up, but I know he can't resolve anything. He's not much of a relationship guy, he's more about the medicines and keeping people upright and out of the hospital.

[mike23]

are you insecure or are you secure.

 

Thank you for two thoughtful replies. It boggles my mind someone I don't know would take that much time to write out very good observations, questions and ideas about my little problem. I couldn't get such advice for my closest friends -- although admittedly I haven't tried yet.

 

I will come back to some of the details and questions in your posts as but a quick comment on this -- I don't really feel insecure but I do act that way. My caricature of our relationship is that she's perfect and I'm roadkill and I'm just lucky to have her. I don't really feel that way, in fact if anything I'm finding out I was deluding myself about my own self worth -- that she thinks less of me than I even thought possible. But still yes, I do exude that insecure vibe. As she said I only do things to the degree that she won't be mad at me. I frequently say to myself: oh man I'd better to XYZ or she will be pissed. Meanwhile she is rarely pissed about anything -- although once in a while it's a doozy.

[mike23]

Your wife could be unhappy for a couple of reasons but the primary reason shes unhappy she will not tell you. its not your job to figure out its her job to be honest with you herself and to others.

 

First release your grip. the tighther you hold onto something to more it will kick scream and bite its way out. in love you must gently hold someone in a place where they want to be. If you wife wants to leave i would simply say this

 

Wow both your post are really insightful. That she won't say the primary reason I think is so true. She stared at me during our calmer conversation and she doesn't really know the main reason, that maybe she needs counseling to figure it out. But I think that might mean she doesn't feel comfortable saying it or doesn't want to because it will reflect too badly on me or her. So I agree with all your advice about being open to hear this news, presenting myself properly, but letting her find the time and way to explain it.

 

And then I did grip tightly, way too tightly, that first night. I was panicked. But I backed off quickly, the next day I was a different person because I knew I couldn't control her at all. But yes I think she didn't immediately walk yet because she was freaked out and new it would be a mess. But if I didn't back off I know it would have backfired. So hopefully I didn't ruin things.

 

I did say one thing to her that I never meant to take advantage of her but that I probably did unknowingly take advantage of her kindness basically over the years. And she said well that's the first time I've heard you genuinely admit that. So that is my one glimmer I'm holding on to that she's willing to listen. And her best admission was that she does thinks such that I'll like them where I do things only so she's not mad. That is true. I don't know how to fix it but she is being insightful.

 

So I will read your posts a few more times. But yes I think she has something to tell me I might not want to hear, but I want to know even if we are getting divorced. And yes I did squeeze too tight for sure, but I'm hoping I backed off soon enough and I am patient in general.

[Mr. Lucky]

We had a 3 hour fight the other day and the next day she said she didn't sleep and we need to stop doing that. Instead we should force more civility by talking out in public, at restaurants or what not, and only for 30-45 minutes so it doesn't drag on. I hated this idea but we did it once and it was helpful I think. She presented some feelings that were very clear and made me think instead of just argue back. I still need to answer her back, presumably over a lunch.

I read about a study recently that proved forcing yourself to smile made you perceptively happier and people that consciously did so were measurably more content with their lives. Perhaps civility works in the same way - in a stress-filled setting like yours, doesn't seem like the approach can hurt .

 

Getting into MC should be your goal. I'd guess there's lots to talk about...

 

Mr. Lucky

[GuyInLimbo]

The only thing I'm going to contribute here is that how this affects the kids is up to BOTH of you. Setting aside all the hurt, pain, shock, whatever, your kids are your top priority. There are a ton of resources online about co-parenting. I agree with you that you can't "share" your home. Someone has to move out. Otherwise, you're looking at now renting/buying TWO additional places besides your home. That's absurd. Again, you HAVE to think about what's best for your kids. Forget trying to prove a point to your wife. If it's best for the kids for YOU to move out, and have them every other week, then do it.

[Simpleoldschool]

i feel like maybe, your wife feels like she cant love you anymore even if she does because you guys fight too much. even if someone loves you, constant fighting doesnt allow you to feel a warm touch by the other person. you become afraid shrivel up and usually the wife runs. Mine was not that way she was DARK AND EVIL. hahaha .

 

even if someone does love you my friend its hard to be around that person if you two are always constantly going at it. sometimes and THIS IS RARE. when a women says she doesnt love you anymore shes telling you she may infact love you but in this relationship, the way it is love is not something that is being shared or communicated. so in her mind its time to move on. she just wants to feel like shes in love so she doesnt have to fight, possibly. but i could be wrong i have been at times. she just might not be the right one for you.

 

to be honest, you are bipolar. so what.

 

seriously the more you accept yourself and the more you tell yourself you are normal the more you will act balanced. staying reliant on a medication the medication is working in the areas of your life you are ignoring. i beilieve at some point something happens to use where it generates an emotional state of mind and mood we cant get out of. its a pit of our own self-attack. its an arena where we are our biggest critic.

 

i really want you to start telling yourself you arent bipolar at all. you are normal and then start doing normal things. all the time. laughing watching comedies having a GOOD TIME doing what you want to. focus on you right now. you have no moral obligation to someone who wants to divorce or seperate but also even more important it should be your choice not to fight with them.

 

i really want you to get in touch with who you are and who you want to be and keep what positives traits you have and work on the rest. be confident. face it like you are going to win. be your own comedian, to yourself. get use to being you. and then LAUGH ALLLL THE TIME. this my friend, is fun. i do it alot. some people say bad things, they dont know me and because of the way they treat me never will. i do not CARE about people who do not show me their support. if they dont its an immediate red flag in getting to know them. pay attention to red flags. they stand for who that person is by the choices they make.

 

to me, a bad person is a bad person not because they have done bad things or made bad choices they are bad because they choose to STAY that way. choose to be that way and more so enjoy being that way.

 

im focusing on something i noticed that you wrote in one of your posts. NEVER and i mean never put a women on a pedastool. she isnt more important than you. she should make you feel important to her.

 

I WILL SAY IT AGAIN. she isnt more important than you, she should make you feel important to HER! period end of story. end of whatever. thats IT. thats called recognizing self-worth and how someone is treating you. your wife isnt made of gold. thats for real and guess what we all putt up with who we live with. and we all do that for a long time and we should do that for a life time. sure life can get boring or hard BUT CHALLENEGES PRESENT THEMSELVES. who is the stronger person in this. If i had a girl who was bipolar that i actually loved. i would help her. counsel her. BRING OUT OF HER , HER INNER HAPPINESS TOWARDS WHO SHE IS! and i would get more of that more frequently. people dont understand what could be because they dont put in the effort rather they put in the effort in getting mad. getting upset and then they want to seperate, HOGWASH STRAIGHT FROM THE HOG AND THE WASH YOU BATHED HIM IN BUD!

 

i laugh and i laugh hard. you arent a bad person because you have a condition that effects you someones a bad person because they chose to give up without trying hard enough to get you to where you need to be. i post on this forum am i asking for donations too or getting mad because i aint getting anyway? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

 

I AM NOT SIR!

 

seriously your wife doesnt ride a white horse on a golden alter high in the air in the clouds with a rainbow overhead and a dress made of honor. so tell her to get off her high horse. no dont do that. im telling you that so you can realize something. you guys need serious marital couenseling. i wish i had the time to talk to some of your wives. first id get them in an emotional place where they talk to me about everything. then i would assess whats wrong with them so they dont think they drink from the fountain of "kickassery" and then id tell them with all of this in mind this is what you need to do TOGHETHER. geeeeez la weeeez women sometimes. ughhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

your a good man. i want you to smile and tell yourself you are cool. then put on some shades and say im the terminator. then take them off and say im not the terminator. and then laugh for no reason.

 

hahah omgoodness. dont worry man. id actually love to say a few things to your wife. not mean or rude but i think i could help. then again i may not. try hard by yourself and do some of the things i told you before. if it doesnt work then if she finds it permissable ill talk to her. ill send you copies of all the emails etc etc.

 

just remember always have a good day. thats your day not anyone elses to have or to take. peace be with you ill be praying.

 

also if you screw up, never tell anyone unless you absolutely have to. be confident and do what it takes to correct the mistake. usually people wont know you even made one. you can be the difference you want in your own life choosing what you do everyday.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Simpleoldschool

[mike23]

If it's best for the kids for YOU to move out, and have them every other week, then do it.

 

You are right it took me time to realize that. I went through 3 phases:

1) Your aren't moving out, we aren't separating.

2) You can move out if you must, I can't stop you, but no way am I moving out.

3) Oh crap she is just stalling waiting for me to realize the only logical thing is for me to move it! That really hit me like a ton of bricks, I'm like oh crap, this is a game she is playing me. But this seems to not be the case.

 

I spoke to my psychiatrist and he ominously said when people announce something like this they often have already made up their mind. It was a rough visit and rough drive back home. But we had a good talk and it seems she's not really convinced about separating. She is damn serious about it, she is sleeping in the the other room of course, but it doesn't seems like she's dead set on it yet. She doesn't think I can turn things around, but it sounds like she's sticking around to give me somewhat of a chance, at least for a number of weeks.

[Mr. Lucky]

She doesn't think I can turn things around, but it sounds like she's sticking around to give me somewhat of a chance, at least for a number of weeks.

And over the course of those weeks, what's your plan?

 

Mr. Lucky

[mike23]

i really want you to get in touch with who you are and who you want to be and keep what positives traits you have and work on the rest. be confident. face it like you are going to win. be your own comedian, to yourself. get use to being you. and then LAUGH ALLLL THE TIME. this my friend, is fun. i do it alot.

 

You are a bit crazy but I think you are really on to something here. A big thing I'm discovering with my wife is that there is just a huge gulf between what I think is going on, in my head, vs. what she sees. She thinks I'm grumpy and sullen when at the time I was happy and content. I can look out at a beautiful day and be thinking, appropriately, this is a beautiful day. But I know I'm wearing a dour face, I can feel it. So it's weird this idea of what you think vs. what you project. And what you are saying, maybe, is teach your self to project. Or even let your projection be the lead, and let you behavior guide what you are thinking as Mr. Lucky said about wearing a smile.

 

I feel like due to bipolar or the meds I take or something, I've severed that connection somewhat, where I don't project my feelings, where I seem to be so grim. I see a lot of older people that look like that, stone faced and bitter looking. Meanwhile I feel like I'm 15 the inside, and perfectly happy and silly and curious about things.

 

I think what she wants is someone warmer and fuzzier. And on the inside I am somewhat warm and fuzzy, but on the outside I'm pretty cold even with her.

 

im focusing on something i noticed that you wrote in one of your posts. NEVER and i mean never put a women on a pedastool. she isnt more important than you. she should make you feel important to her.

 

You are right here because she in particular doesn't want to be on pedestal. She wants to look up to me, I know. And she does to some degree even given the bipolar and the fighting. We even fought about this once: she considers me head of household on key decisions, she won't overrule me. Which I find weird she makes more money than me, she's super capable in every way while I'm mentally ill for dog's sake. But I think she wants someone confident to lead the way sometimes.

 

I hear you about pretending I don't have bipolar. In fact I do most of the time because it is well controlled and I don't feel less in anyway. But then I get a super low month or super high day and I'm like crap, I'm not well.

 

I know one thing now. "Nurturing the relationship" or "working on the marriage" is as simple as just being around her more, even if she's doing something dumb I have no interest in (like TV) I should just be there. I tend to split off and go use the computer and let her do whatever, figuring we like to do different things. And figuring if she has to tell me something she should just tell me. But what she wants is for me to just kind of "be around" so she can, eventually, tell me something or ask me something. Seems like a horribly inefficient arrangement to me.

 

Like going to church, I never go to church with her, I'm a complete non-believer but I'm fine with her going. But now I realize I should really go to. Before I would consider that wimpy and that I had every right to skip. But given the balance here, with her so angry she's about to walk, I realize I should just go to the damn church. I should let her introduce me to people whose name I will instantly forget, so people can later say "oh I saw your husband at church" or useless things like that.

 

She says I can't change, she's very skeptical I can change and therefor things we'll end up divorced. She's right it is hard to change. For 10 years she's wanted me to learn to cook, and I can barely make macaroni and cheese. I might learn to project hapiness, but I feel like I'll always slip back to my old ways.

 

I really a way to transform some things about myself permanently. I can't will that kind of change, I will always falter. I need to make me warmer and more caring and able to stay awake in church. I wouldn't aspire to this if I thought it was a big phony act, but instead I feel like I really am that way, but it just doesn't come through.

 

you guys need serious marital couenseling.

 

My shrink said we need MC even if we're going to get divorced, said it could turn things around but even if not it's good for mediating the separation and divorce. He's a glass half empty kind of guy I think.

 

I have a MC appointment but its not for a few weeks. She really was against MC at first but I haven't asked recently, she seems much more open to things.

 

I feel like I know the answer to some degree, I know things that if I could change them would improve the marriage a lot. But I don't know how to permanently change them. It's like basketball player being told you need to improve your free throws. They can just shoot free throws and hour or two a day. But what do I do?

[mike23]

And over the course of those weeks, what's your plan?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Yeah I don't know really. We had a good talk today but clearly there are just fundamental things she doesn't like about me or wishes I would change about me. That'd I'd be more caring and nurturing and tender I guess, more in touch with her feelings, and just flat more competent. She'd never say it but I think she'd like me to loose 30 pounds not so I'd look better, but just so I'd accomplish something I've been talking about doing for 5 years. She like me to learn to cook. I think she wants to see progress instead of decline from age or illness.

 

But I feel like I don't know how to do any of those things. And certainly not in a few weeks. So much is on the line I'd think "well this time I'll really do it" but feel like that never works.

 

I feel like instead of changing by will alone, I need to embark on something that will change me despite myself.

 

Like for 10 years I've been saying I would exercise and never sustained anything. But for 6 months I've had a personal trainer and it works amazingly well, I haven't lost weight but I'm stronger than I've been since college probably, just amazing results. And it doesn't feel hard I just show up and do what he says. And one visit does nothing but over time magically I'm way stronger.

 

Now I'm already paying for a therapist, MC, personal trainer, can I pay someone to make me a better husband? That sounds sketchy. But I can do something like, I don't know what, volunteer at something where I'm forced to interact with people more and learn something, or like never touch the computer after 7pm or something drastic that will over time change me?

 

Does anyone have an example of pulling off some big change in themselves in their 40's or later, what was the trick?

[mike23]

She a agreed to go to MC, first session is next week. What is MC like? I'm sure it just depends on the couple. I'm willing to admit there's a bunch of ways I'd like to be a better husband -- and additionally that I'm unsure how to make the needed changes, I need help figuring that out. That is her her central complaint, that I just can't change, and there is some trust to it, I find it hard to change.

 

At the same time though I'm looking for some acceptance of who I am, that I'm a different person from her. For instance we've been getting ready for this birthday for the kids, and I'm doing tons of stuff on the computer, designing and printing stuff. And she's doing tons of handicrafts, and that's fine. But she tried to get me to takeover some of the arts and crafts I had no interest, I don't want to go to the hobby store and use the glue gun and stuff like that. She didn't really get mad but she was annoyed. I'm not going to be her, that's asking too much. I feel the same way about cooking, she's expert in it and I know nothing. Although there it's practical not just for fun, so there I can see why she wants me to learn. But I find it very hard, maybe because my dad never cooked day-to-day, that was a Mom thing, but I know plenty of men do it.

[Mr. Lucky]

What is MC like? I'm sure it just depends on the couple.

It actually depends on the couple's willingness to do the work. If your wife goes expecting that it's going to be an examination of just your faults, she will be surprised...

 

Mr. Lucky

[WreckedDan]

Just my two cents but it sounds like she wants you to take interest in things she has interest in. Next time she cooks, ask her if you can help so you can learn, if she wants to go to the craft store, ask if you can go too, yoi don't jave to do what she's doing.. maybe you can go and just browse, you never know you might find something interesting.

 

Wish I could have taken this advice myself 3 years ago,

Dan

[mike23]

It actually depends on the couple's willingness to do the work. If your wife goes expecting that it's going to be an examination of just your faults, she will be surprised...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

We've been two 2 MC sessions. Really the counselor does not say much specific to us, she listens but we don't dive into what we think are our problems. Instead she gives us exercises which are generic. The first time was think of memories from when you were dating, what attracted you and specific memories from that time. The second time was to do "checkins" every night, talk about what upset you that day and about what you appreciate in the other person.

 

The first exercise was benign and helpful and I think. The second has been toxic. When she said she wanted to separate that was a hell week or two, but since they she's warmed up a lot, sleeps in the same bed, generally seeming to get back to normal somewhat. All the while I know the issues still remain, which is why MC. But now with these checkins things escalate from a 15 minute thing to a 3 hour argument, it's just brutal. Not a fight but a calm but painful argument.

 

I feel like the goal of this MC isn't to solve any of your problems, it's to get you talking more so they you can potentially work things out yourself. But we couldn't work them out before so I don't see how we will now. There's so much deep seated resentment in her, it's very disturbing. How did we get here.

 

I want to make it work and I think we can at one level, for a while, but at a deeper level I think she may have given up on me and it's so painful. Such lack of control, like there nothing I can do to fix things, like I'm paying for 10 years where I thought things were going okay, and now I find out I was just laying the grounds for divorce. Really a nightmare, I empathize without anyone whose gone through this like never before.