Interpretations? My gut says "end it"

[Zapbasket]

You say you'd be waiting years for him to decide if he wants to marry you (and then propose) or not, but by the sounds of your tone that isn't really what you yourself want with him?

 

I think it's really coming to that. I'm trying a different approach from my usual, more intense one, per TBF's advice. I'm just pulling back and watching. And answers are beginning to come to me, without my pursuing every last thing in order to find answers. In other words: you're exactly right.

[Zapbasket]

Well, I did it. I ended it. I wish I could say I feel great now that everything is resolved, one way or the other, but I don't feel great at all.

[sunshinegirl]

Well, I did it. I ended it. I wish I could say I feel great now that everything is resolved, one way or the other, but I don't feel great at all.

 

Big hugs, GC! It's not at all surprising that you don't feel great - even in this thread you can see that although you've been actually pretty resolved about what you should do, you've struggled with it.

 

I hope you can trust that you made a good decision for YOU even though it feels crappy. As they say, there's no way out but through. I hope you have some good things lined up this weekend to distract you for a bit!

[Fugu]

I've not been on here the past several days but plan to give an update this weekend. I was interested in your comment, Fugu, because what you describe here is exactly what seems to be going on with K. I've stopped taking his behaviors personally. I think in his mind he really does love me. But there is this baffling passivity that seems to follow him around like a cloud that even he doesn't know is there. In everything he does, not just things pertaining to me.

 

I think he's probably deeply sad right now, but on some level, he might actually appreciate a chance to be independent again. It's hard to explain, because human psychological and all of our inner conflicts as individuals aren't always logical.

 

In my case, I remember that I was once in a relationship in which I started out feeling very much self-assured and in control of my life, and then suddenly, certain events hit me and I responded terribly, leaving me feeling unable to react and respond. I don't think I was the only cause of the problems in that relationship, but I certainly accept that I had my part in its failure. I was sad to lose the relationship, but at the same time, a part of me felt reborn again, like I was able to gain perspective from it and grow into a new me.

 

To be honest, there were times when I and probably the women I dated probably wondered if this transformation process was a good thing. I have to confess that I went through a self-centered phase, one in which I was trying to understand myself better. What I believe in retrospect is that I went through a phase in my late 20s and early 30s that most guys do a good five to ten years earlier. I was not a very mature person in terms of having intimate relationships. I was mature in other ways, but that was an area in which I needed a lot of growth. I think I probably got worse before I got better, but in the end, all of those experiences made me who I am today. I think I'm better husband or relationship material than I ever was when I was younger.

 

A couple of months ago, before we took this break, he got really upset with me for saying that sometimes I felt he was "like a lily pad floating on a still lake of nowhere." I didn't mean for it to come off as strongly as it did, and I apologized...but that is exactly how I feel. It's why after all this time with him, I still see no sign of what he really wants; everything he does just lacks a certain drive or direction. And when he tries to describe what he sees his direction to be, it's even more confusing and confused than it all appears to be.

 

He's not used to having the mirror held up. I wasn't either, lol. I resisted it, too. I've tried to become better at listening to people when they have unpleasant things to say, as long as they don't say it with contempt or scorn.

 

Did you ever snap out of it, Fugu? If so, what snapped you out of it? Or are you more passive by nature?

 

I don't really know how to answer that question. All I can say is that I've become wiser. I listen more. I try to understand more. I try to keep my ego out of relationships more. Sometimes I succeed; other times I fail. I take it one day at a time.

 

(The thing is, I've known some very passive people, and even they have a direction; it's just that everything decision they make is very calm, quiet and considered. The thing I see with K. seems to be something else. I've thought depression, but he doesn't seem unhappy. He doesn't seem happy, either, just kind of...vacant. Even one of our mutual friends described him just that way: vacant.)

 

I think that he's in a dead zone, and I don't mean it to sound as harsh as it is. He's possibly at some kind of crossroads. Maybe this is the seminal moment that he will look back on and appreciate...or maybe he'll become bitter. An observation that I'd make is that women tend to be more mature in dealing with this area because I think they tend to understand the impact of time more, especially as it relates to stages of life, such as getting married and starting a family. Women have biological clocks, so they're forced to confront these issues in ways that men typically aren't. I don't want to chalk it all up to gender, though. In the end, it's the individual who lives life. I hope all works out.

[tbf]

Well, I did it. I ended it. I wish I could say I feel great now that everything is resolved, one way or the other, but I don't feel great at all.

First, it's never any fun to end a relationship, no matter the duration. Not too many people enjoy handing out hurt or experiencing loss.

 

((hugs))

[Zapbasket]

Big hugs, GC! It's not at all surprising that you don't feel great - even in this thread you can see that although you've been actually pretty resolved about what you should do, you've struggled with it.

 

I hope you can trust that you made a good decision for YOU even though it feels crappy. As they say, there's no way out but through. I hope you have some good things lined up this weekend to distract you for a bit!

 

Thanks, SSG. (((hugs))) I know it was the right decision. And I've known it for some time, deep down. I think what's distressing me the most--more than the thought of any hurt I might have caused him, since...what did he expect would happen, eventually? And as I've said for a long time, I think there was always a part of him pushing for this outcome, unconsciously--is how long it took me to do this, when my spidey sense told me all along that the nature of the issues at hand in this relationship and with this person were not ones that could be "fixed," or at least subdued to a point where the relationship could feel secure.

 

First, it's never any fun to end a relationship, no matter the duration. Not too many people enjoy handing out hurt or experiencing loss.

 

((hugs))

 

Thanks, TBF, and hugs back. I had to listen to "Sick Cycle Carousel" a bunch of times today. Each time I said to myself, "This is why I had to do this."

[Zapbasket]

So I didn't start out Friday planning to end the relationship once and for all. I was still having strong misgivings about the viability of going forward with him, and I kept asking myself, "Why, WHY, can't I end this?"

 

So it's late Friday afternoon, and I went for a long bike ride. I had called K. to invite him along, but couldn't reach him, so went on my own. When I returned to the trailhead, he was there; he had gotten my message and was going to try to find me on the trail. I thought that was really sweet. We hung out on a bench while watching the sun set, and then went to our respective homes to eat dinner. I called him an hour later to say good night and thank him for coming out to meet me.

 

It seemed absolutely impossible that anything could disrupt the peace between us, on the phone. He was telling me that he had given his little nieces, aged six and four, the birthday presents and cards we had gotten each of them, and they loved them. I had written a little note in each of their cards, and he told me that the 4-year-old observed, "GreenCove wrote more in [big Sister's] card than in mine."

 

"Awww!" I said. I felt bad; I'd written more in the older girl's card on purpose, because I assumed she'd be interested in reading it for herself whereas the non-reading younger sister would be more interested in the cute pictures on the front of the card. Clearly, I'd misjudged, and instantly my mind started spinning ways to make it up to the younger one--getting her another card and writing up a funny little rhyme, just for her, etc.

 

And somehow, my empathic gushing struck K. as "a forceful tone" and he got irritated with me, told me in an angry voice that it "wasn't a big deal" and the next thing I knew, this perfectly pleasant interchange became an argument. I just felt, What the F%*^&*??? And something in me snapped. I just felt completely, utterly done. I said to him, "I don't want to discuss this with you on the phone, we can meet at a neutral place or my house but we need to talk in person."

 

He came over, and I said to him that it seemed we could just never find a middle ground in our communication and it resulted in constant misunderstandings of ridiculous things that shouldn't be an issue (see above). He agreed. Then things escalated, and I told him I thought he needed to grow up, that he had wasted my time in never talking about the future and never respecting my feelings even though I'd been asking him to stop the same behaviors for three years running.

 

We agreed it was done, I told him I needed to block him from FB and I'm sorry in advance, and we agreed to just let one another alone for the foreseeable future. When he got up to leave, at 2 a.m., we hugged by the front door, and then he started laughing and poked fun at something in a way that was just...inappropriate given the context, I felt, and I said, "REally, you can't just take this seriously for one moment so that we can say goodbye properly?" And he got upset and defensive, and I felt annoyed, and then he did it again, and I got more annoyed, and he just walked out and shut the door behind him. And thus even the very last moment was yet another iteration of the same exhausting cyclical dynamic.

 

And just like that, as has happened so, so, so many times, a perfectly peaceful moment suddenly went bad, seemingly out of nowhere, only this time it became the end of the relationship. And I think more than feeling low, though I do feel a little low even while I'm out and about and enjoying the weekend, I feel just... What. The. *^*%*.

 

I'm not sure I'll ever understand what happened here, with these three years with this person. It's a very strange feeling, this.... Don't know what I'm getting at here, just rambling, probably.... Thanks, if you've read this far.

Edited June 9, 2013 by GreenCove

[Zapbasket]

Fugu, I really appreciate these things you are saying as it is very illuminating to hear a little of the thought process behind being in a longstanding rut. It sounds like you identify with my now-ex from an earlier time in your life, and it sounds like with time and reflection you overcame some of the difficulties that caused your period of inertia.

 

He's not used to having the mirror held up. I wasn't either, lol. I resisted it, too. I've tried to become better at listening to people when they have unpleasant things to say, as long as they don't say it with contempt or scorn.

 

Looking back, why do you think you were you not used to having the mirror held up? Had you not encountered someone yet who dared challenge you, or was it that you hadn't been receptive to hearing it before a certain point in time, or what? I feel K resisted and antagonized me throughout the time we were together, even around what I thought were reasonable requests. What made you better able to listen over time?

 

Thanks again for your thoughts.

[whichwayisup]

You did the right thing by ending it.

 

As for how he handled it, well, it's him. You wanted him to be more serious and in the moment but he couldn't do that, instead he made jokes. No way was he going to show his emotions to you. let alone a tear or sadness.

[Zapbasket]

You did the right thing by ending it.

 

As for how he handled it, well, it's him. You wanted him to be more serious and in the moment but he couldn't do that, instead he made jokes. No way was he going to show his emotions to you. let alone a tear or sadness.

 

Exactly, WWIW. Thanks.

[Zapbasket]

How do I deal with his family, namely, his mom?

 

I last spoke with her on Friday, via text. She'd asked me if I could help out with their big garage sale on Saturday, for which her daughter was coming from another part of the state with her two little girls. I wanted to help out, and see the little girls, whom I adore, and K's sister, who's great. But a) I had several deadlines to meet this weekend and I knew if I stopped by ostensibly "for a bit" I'd get carried away and stay for the whole time and beyond, playing in the yard with the little girls. And b) I really felt that K and I needed to spend time together more so than me spending time with the family, since my love for and comfort with them is what has so often skewed my judgment about my relationship with K. So I left it with her on Friday that I'd "try" to make it but I couldn't promise. She said great, they'd love to see me but she understands if I can't make it.

 

And then that night I ended the relationship with K.

 

I'm afraid that now it looks to her like I was being disingenuous with her, that I knew I was going to break up with K. that night and that's why I wouldn't promise to come help out with the garage sale. Which was not the case at all. I'm afraid if she thinks this way, then it will feel to her that I dumped her and the whole family. Again, not at all the case.

 

I know I can't tell her ultimately why I ended it save for some vague reason. This is wreaking havoc on my heart much more than the ending with K. They really are my family out here. I know that closeness likely will come to an end, especially given K. lives right there on the family property (in a garage apartment), which totally sucks. I don't expect anything; I just want to do my best to do right by his mom, because she has been nothing but wonderful to me first as my boss, when I first moved out here, then as a second mom and a friend. What's the best course of action? Do I wait for her to reach out to me? I don't want to make her feel uncomfortable in any way.

[whichwayisup]

Just tell her that you two were having time apart to figure stuff out, and the intention really was to work on yourselves, have space to think. That you two got together and talked, together (the other night) decided it would be best to end things. Let her know that you'd still like to help out if she is okay with that and whatever she decides is fine by you. Call her, don't email.

[Zapbasket]

Just tell her that you two were having time apart to figure stuff out, and the intention really was to work on yourselves, have space to think. That you two got together and talked, together (the other night) decided it would be best to end things. Let her know that you'd still like to help out if she is okay with that and whatever she decides is fine by you. Call her, don't email.

 

Sorry--I don't think I was very clear in my last post: the garage sale was this past Saturday, the day after K. and I broke up. But what you advise about what to say to her sounds like the right move. To make it out that "we" decided to end things, rather than I ended it after his reaction to a totally benign comment on my part made me realize we just could not have a future together.

 

I'll be honest, I have mixed motivations. The principle motivation--and the one that will determine how I do, in fact, proceed--is that I want to honor her and her unwavering kindness to me since I have known her.

 

The other, secondary motivation, or rather, wish, is that I so want to know whether she sees it, too--the insidious ways her son is controlling, the fact that he is so stuck, situationally and emotionally, that he could not possibly be a stable partner for any woman right now. Of course I can't outright ask her that, or tell her that that's the way *I* see it. I just wish that, woman to woman, we could somehow acknowledge that what we each know about this person has a lot of commonalities.

 

I fear if she doesn't see it, then to act like it was this mature, mutual decision arrived at with mature discussion just continues this delusion that he was going to propose to me all along, yadda yadda yadda...and I hate perpetuating delusions. But I know sometimes you must do so, in order to protect someone else's feelings, in this case, a mother's feelings regarding her son. So I'm going to go with something close to WWIW's words.

 

Anyway, I'm going to wait a few more days to let things settle. If she contacts me, of course I'll meet up with her. I'm thinking she's probably waiting a few days, too. Maybe longer, we'll see, and that's okay. I got this email from K's sister tonight and it made me cry because I really love K's nieces, and his sister is such a sweet, sensitive person:

 

Thank you for the watches. The girls love them. They sure missed seeing you this weekend. I just want you to know we love you and I would love to get together this summer.

Edited June 11, 2013 by GreenCove

[Zapbasket]

You know what's going through my mind right now?

 

"I did it! I did it! I finally did it!"

 

It doesn't mean I'm all peachy, but it does suggest I really did do the right thing, albeit perhaps much later than I should have done.

 

I feel a bit like a dam just opened. When you're in a relationship with a stuck person, whether it seems so or not, you become stuck, too. Maybe now I can get myself into a happier situation than I've been in since moving out here. I've been working hard toward that goal, but maybe now I'll have extra energy to put to that end.

 

I'm looking forward to having time to myself, to be single. I really haven't had this in 10 years. The year and a half total that I have been out of a relationship over the past decade was spent wading through the muck of bad relationship endings' aftermath, so I don't feel it fully counts.

 

So, yeah: hippity hippity hop-hop a bee-bop.

[Thegreatestthing]

Sorry but your personality reminds me of a controlling relationship I was in.

 

Maybe that's just how I'm interpreting it,you sound highly critical and kind of nagging e.g pulling apart his email and saying the correct way he should have done it,what he should have said e.g what you would have done.

 

What he should do with his life etc,it's admirable that you care about his future.in my controlling relationship that person was constantly trying to get me to better myself,their way and on their timeline.

 

it was only when I got completely away from them and their "helpful" critiques that I became fully realized and grown up ,because I valued myself alot more.

 

Is it possible that what you see as "tests" are his way of asserting his own will.

 

If he didn't want to speak to you till next week he can do that,he doesn't really need to explain it to you further at all.

[Zapbasket]

never mind

Edited June 11, 2013 by GreenCove
Suspect "TheGreatestThing" is a troll--I checked out her thread...

[sunshinegirl]

The other, secondary motivation, or rather, wish, is that I so want to know whether she sees it, too--the insidious ways her son is controlling, the fact that he is so stuck, situationally and emotionally, that he could not possibly be a stable partner for any woman right now. Of course I can't outright ask her that, or tell her that that's the way *I* see it. I just wish that, woman to woman, we could somehow acknowledge that what we each know about this person has a lot of commonalities.

 

I fear if she doesn't see it, then to act like it was this mature, mutual decision arrived at with mature discussion just continues this delusion that he was going to propose to me all along, yadda yadda yadda...and I hate perpetuating delusions. But I know sometimes you must do so, in order to protect someone else's feelings, in this case, a mother's feelings regarding her son. So I'm going to go with something close to WWIW's words.

 

When my 2008 relationship ended, I hated the fact that I was going to lose the connection to his parents, AND I sooooo wanted them to see what a jerk their son was (he cheated on me). So I get where you're coming from.

 

Things happened so abruptly with the ex that I didn't have a chance to say goodbye to his parents, so a few weeks later I penned a short note to them, thanking them for their generosity toward me and wishing them well. In the back of my mind I was hoping I'd get a note or call back, with them saying what a mistake their son made, how he really screwed things up, etc. I wanted validation.

 

A couple of months later, I actually did get a note back from his mom. My hand was shaking as I opened it. Was she going to come alongside me to agree that he had treated me badly and he had issues? Wait for it, GC...

 

OF COURSE NOT!!!

 

It was a sweet note as far as it went (saying how nice it had been to get to know me), but nowhere and in no way did my ex's mom go down the road of criticizing her son.

 

And in retrospect, it was really dumb of me to think that she would - or should. My issue of wanting validation from her came from my own insecurity. It was my issue to wrestle, not hers. I didn't trust my own judgment that it was a bad relationship (even before the cheating) so I thought I needed someone else to tell me I wasn't crazy.

 

The thing is, even if she had affirmed that her son behaved poorly, it wouldn't have erased the hurt. It wouldn't have stopped my recycling and rehashing of everything over and over and over. Coping with the breakup was my task, my work, and it would have been a terrible misstep for me to try to engage my ex's mom in any kind of discussion of what happened in the relationship.

 

Family is going to circle the wagons at a time like this, and it will only put his mom in an awkward position to talk about the relationship with you. Even if she reaches out to you, I would really resist the urge to discuss what happened with her. If that's too hard to do, I'd keep my distance for a little while longer.

 

On a different note, glad to see you're feeling upbeat about the decision! I hope that feeling stays with you.

[Zapbasket]

A couple of months later, I actually did get a note back from his mom. My hand was shaking as I opened it. Was she going to come alongside me to agree that he had treated me badly and he had issues? Wait for it, GC...

 

OF COURSE NOT!!!

 

It was a sweet note as far as it went (saying how nice it had been to get to know me), but nowhere and in no way did my ex's mom go down the road of criticizing her son.

 

It's funny, the way I imagined this ex based on all your descriptions of him, was as someone who could not possibly have had parents! I was sort-of jarred when I read your first paragraphs in this post, because I was like, "Wait, this guy actually has a MOM?!?"

 

And in retrospect, it was really dumb of me to think that she would - or should. My issue of wanting validation from her came from my own insecurity.

 

It's completely understandable, though, to want that validation. I think that family should always have one another's backs; no parent should bad-mouth his or her child; but it seems fair to expect that the mother of a son who has cheated on a woman he had led to believe was in an exclusive relationship with him would be monumentally embarrassed. I don't see anything wrong with a mom apologizing to a wronged ex-girlfriend or ex-wife for her son's behavior. That said, I agree that no one can expect that...just as no one should have to accept a mother's willful blindness to her son's faults.

 

Family is going to circle the wagons at a time like this, and it will only put his mom in an awkward position to talk about the relationship with you. Even if she reaches out to you, I would really resist the urge to discuss what happened with her. If that's too hard to do, I'd keep my distance for a little while longer.

 

I am so appreciative of your words here, SSG, because she contacted me today asking if we could meet tomorrow, and I really want to handle this in the best way I can. I want to be honest without leaving her with any unpleasant ideas or words about her son with which she could associate me months later. I'd love to say, "Honestly, your son relished getting under my skin the entire three years we were together--he knew his behavior upset me, and that just stimulated him further. I think this is abusive behavior from someone utterly unequipped to handle an intimate relationship, and after waiting around for three years for him to pull his head out of his butt and start acting like the almost-thirty-eight-year-old man he is, and demonstrating behaviors suggestive of his considerable potential, I finally got wise and got the hell out of this relationship before it could take one more day of my life. But, I want you to know how much I love YOU, and if I could marry someone solely on the basis of how awesome his mother was, I'd go to the courthouse with K. this instant because you are the BEST."

 

I think, though, I'll just keep it to, "It's been three years and no proposal or even talk of the future and I decided I could not wait a day longer. I am so sorry because I love you and the entire family so much, and that won't change even though we may not talk or see each other as frequently."

 

Because you are very right: I don't need that validation. I know I am not crazy. And as another friend said to me, when I cried over how unfair I felt it was, that his loving family would be there to hold him up despite his bad behavior, "That exactly what every human being in the world should have, GC. Family is the one group of people who will love you no matter how many mistakes you make, or how badly you behave. There is always some good in a person, and family's role is to recognize it, and nurture it, despite whatever other faults the person has."

 

I want my mom to have my back--and she very much does--and so why shouldn't his mom have his? It's the kind of mom I'd hope to be, as well. That said, I hope that if I'm the mom of a son one day, I'll tell him privately to get himself together and not waste some lovely young woman's time acting like a sixth-grader and not making a move.

 

On a different note, glad to see you're feeling upbeat about the decision! I hope that feeling stays with you.

 

I feel so good that I finally ended it. Of course it's sad, but not nearly as sad as it would have been to have waited this out one day more in hopes it could finally work. Three years, no change. That's all I need to know. I am utterly, 100% done and while I know I have much work to do on myself so that I never end up in this situation FOR THIS LONG again, I feel very assured knowing that if I lost my inner compass for a time, I did ultimately find it in the end. And when all is said and done, that's what matters--it's what must matter, since I can't go back in time. You give me hope, too, because things turned around for you after you righted your man-picker; the difference in the tone of your posts between now and 2008 in the aftermath of that poor, emotionless wretch of a man is night and day.