What can I do about my 17 yr old daughter/Is she a monster or disturbed??

[VivianLee]

There is something else going on here isn't there Viv? How do you and your husband act in front of your daughter? She was doing so well and things were looking up for you both. Why did you two drive seperatley to and from Church? Is it because of work?

 

My husband and I always hug and show affection (it's not acting, it's real) when we are around our daughter. We always hug goodbye and hello (as we do with our daughter), we always say I love you when ending a phone conversation or e-mail, we hold hands when driving down the road, we go out on a date once a week.....

 

My husband commutes to work an hour away from the house. On Wednesday nights, my daughter and I drive to church together and meet him (the church is an hour away also).....He and I ride together on Sundays and she lags behind and drives her car....

 

I know hind sight is 20/20, but think about this: She wanted to have friends over after Church. Was money really the motivation behind you being against it? When you told your daughter that funds were low this week, instead of leaving it at that, let her know that she'd have to either let her buddies know there won't be any snacks, or lunch...or bring your own, or ask her if she could be creative with what you can live without until next payday.

 

She wanted to have her friends over after the game last night (Friday)....I left her know Tuesday that we didn't have the money for "big plans"....I was fine with them coming over and watching movies and such but I told her they would need to go eat like at a fast food place or something before coming over...

 

That's when she hit the roof and pictched her 2 hour shrieking fit. As she was saying all those things, I told her that NO ONE was coming over due to her attitude and to tell them at the game.

 

The reason she didn't get to have company over in the long run was due to punishment of being disrespectful.

 

 

At 17, it may be too late to change your daughter's ways. But one thing you can do is change the way she thinks about you both. You and you're husband are still together, correct? Show some love between you in front of her. Become that team you were supossed to be to being with. Your daughter is going to need tangible proof that you aren't the person she thought you were.

 

We are together....

 

We try......

 

And also, let me remind you that you are still in charge. Everything that I've said applies to the advice I gave you before. This post is just a reminder to stay on your toes and you'll still have to work at finding opportunities to show your daughter that you are to be respected.

 

Last night she came in after the game and said; "I'm sorry for all I said." I told her; "I forgive you but you are still punished and no one is coming over." I left the room and I heard her fussing with her Daddy about it....

 

They didn't come over, she got up this morning and her attitude was 100% improved....

 

Thanks, Moose!

[EnigmaXOXO]

Way to go Vivian!

 

Consistency and follow through was what our councilors continued to advise through our own daughter's rebellious adolescence. And believe me, having to ground her was a lot tougher on "us" than it was on her because she did her best to make sure we paid for it…especially her Mom!

 

The running to Daddy thing - Cliff (our councilor) referred to it as "divide and conquer." Adolescents are quite resourceful at this strategy and will utilize any kink in the armor (or weak spot in the parental relationship) to manipulate and play one off against the other. If two parents can't team up and provide a united front, it will drive a permanent wedge between them. This happens when one parent becomes the main focus of their teenager's rage (usually the stronger parent) and feels they are not getting the back up or emotional support they need from their primary partner. If two parents can't lean on each other for strength during these times, then the parent carrying most of the emotional burden on their shoulders begins to feel like the odd man out - or the unwelcomed stranger in their own home. You would be surprised at how many marriages end in divorce simply because two parents can't survive their own offspring!

 

Am I wrong to assume your daughter is an only child like mine? In our case, we had a tendency to overindulge our daughter when she was young. Since she was also the only grandchild on both sides for many years, the grandparents also spoiled her as well. In our case, by the time she was fifteen and entering into that dreaded adolescence stage (aka: demonic possession ) she was so use to getting her way, that when she began to hear the word "no" for the first time she responded to it much like an insult. She would rant, rage, kick and punch holes in the walls during the whole time she was grounded, struggling until the very end to break one of us down just so she could get off early and feel that she "won." Once her punishment was over, she was absolutely fine…until the next time, that is!

 

I absolutely admire they way you and your husband are pulling together through this. Most of all, how emotionally strong you have become. You're my brand new heroine, Vivian! And I've been following your posts faithfully although I've hesitated to respond simply because it brings back so many memories that it causes me to cringe! Believe me, I feel every d*mn bit of what you're going through!

 

Shoot - surviving infidelity is NOTHING compared to surviving a teenager! If you two get through this and are still holding on to each other at the end, then your marriage is strong enough to survive any test life has to throw at you.

 

PS - It will get better, Mom. I promise!

[industrialdoll]

Her behavior reminds me of 'And I Dont Want To Live This Life' a story about Nancy Spungen, written by her mother Debra. You should order that book, it may shed some light on some things...

[VivianLee]

Am I wrong to assume your daughter is an only child like mine? In our case, we had a tendency to overindulge our daughter when she was young. Since she was also the only grandchild on both sides for many years, the grandparents also spoiled her as well. In our case, by the time she was fifteen and entering into that dreaded adolescence stage (aka: demonic possession ) she was so use to getting her way, that when she began to hear the word "no" for the first time she responded to it much like an insult. She would rant, rage, kick and punch holes in the walls during the whole time she was grounded, struggling until the very end to break one of us down just so she could get off early and feel that she "won." Once her punishment was over, she was absolutely fine…until the next time, that is!

 

Enigma,

You do know exactly what I am going through, this does pale in comparison to many things I've dealt with...

 

Yes, she is an only child and is still the only grandchild on one side of our family (mine)......she was made to behave but she got her way all the time because she didn't have to share anything with anyone. She never had to deal with sharing or being 2nd to anything till she was 5 and in kindergarten. We didn't allow fits and such or let her "win" but she still tried....

 

The demonic possession is the closest comparison there is....I'm expecting her head to spin and pea soup to come out of her mouth any minute!!

 

This morning has by far been the worse>>>>she loves to sabatoge our Sunday mornings when she gets in that way.

 

She didn't like the way I woke her up and then there was some controversy concerning some things of mine she'd borrowed and I couldn't find and needed to get ready. I don't even feel like going into the sad, pathetic details but this time she got physical....she threw the objects of which we were discussing and hit me hard in the back with them. She is a big girl at 6' and is big boned, I am still hurting in my back. She picked up another object to "hit me in my face" and my husband had to restrain her till I could run out to our car.

 

I had to run away from my own child for safety.

 

I couldn't talk all the way to church (we have an hours drive)...I had to come to a friends house and ban her from a forum that I own in case she decided to air our dirty laundry (she has tried this before).....

 

I've seen this on TV and never dreamed we would experience it.

 

She doesn't want me at our home, today she said she hated me and hoped I'd die, she is so sick of me. Now I am afraid for my safety (I'm alot smaller than she) and so I am waiting till my head clears but I think I'm going to go stay with my parent's for a couple of weeks and see what can be done.

 

My husband is a work all day and in school for 2 nights a week. I think I'm going to just take this sabbatical and look for a job and see about enrolling back into college.

 

I'm just taking all day Monday to think and organize the house and decide what to do....

 

I'm so hurt and sick right now, I don't see a happy ending for my family as an intact unit. Of course I've taken everything to heart that I may have done or have done that would cause her to be this way, it would make sense if our affairs had been the cause (I know if hasn't helped) but this child started acting this way long before either of us failed.....it ONLY happens when she doesn't get her way or we lay the law down.....

 

Don't think of me as a hero, that is so sweet but I don't deserve it....I've done something terribly wrong somewhere and can't fix it.....

 

Enigma, did you have a happy ending?? If you have already told me, I'll go back and look to see what you posted....I need to know there is a happy ending...I'm afraid she is going to kill me or herself (I'd rather she killed me) or burn the house down....I can't separate what is just drama or real....I'm so scared!!

 

industrialdoll,

I will look into that book!! Thanks!

[EnigmaXOXO]

Like your husband, Vivian, my husband was sometimes around when my daughter flew into her rages. Most of the time she was on her best behavior by the time he came home from work. When I tried to tell him our daughter needed "help," he looked at me like I was imagining things (or at least over exaggerating them). Towards the end, he began to see what I was dealing with. On two occasions, he had to physically restrain her. But I didn't run…or back away from my daughter. It's imperative that you "stay in control" and not back down. THIS is exactly what your daughter wants. She has now created a division between you and your husband - "bad cop" vs. "good cop."

 

I also have to wonder why your husband hasn't stepped in and reprimanded your daughter for her verbal attacks on you. A strong father should soldier you - stand right beside you and let that girl know in no uncertain terms that he will NOT tolerate her calling his wife a "whore." He needs to step in, RIGHT BY YOUR SIDE, and make it clear that the two of you are a team, and that unless she gets with the program she will be the odd man out. She needs to know that you both speak with the same voice, that there's no way through you or around you. United Front!

 

I can't stress to you enough how important it is that you get some professional help with this beyond the support of your church. Once your daughter's rages have escalated into physical attacks it means she has lost all fear or "respect" for you. Now that she's got you on the run, you have handed over all power and control and will have a difficult time regaining it. This child has won dominance over you and your husband, has overthrown your authority, and has now become head of household.

 

I was fortunate, Vivian. I was able to afford professional help and got the support and guidance my husband wasn't able to give me. Believe me, if I hadn't, I'd be at the local funny farm right now chasing invisible butterflies. They even came to my house on several occasions to help with intervention and I had the amazing support of my family and friends.

 

Unfortunately, because of my husband's own issues, he wasn't well equipped to handle confrontation. He wasn't very emotionally strong and he never completed the "Get Tough" parenting courses the councilors sent him too. He preferred just to stay busy at work and not come home so he didn't have to deal with it. Can't blame him. It wasn't a very happy home and there were times when I wished I could just run away, too. But I couldn't, wouldn't and didn't. My husband's favorite method of parenting was just to buy the kid whatever she wanted because it made her "happy" and she behaved a little better for a few days. Which under-minded everything we were trying to accomplish. Finally, after things escalated out of control I had to deliver my husband an ultimatum: "You either work with me or get out." He did, and took my daughter with him.

 

What happened after that would take 6 pages to explain. But during this time while the councilors were diagnosing my daughter as "Bipolar" I also found out that my daughter was using heroine and a plethora of other mood altering drugs. Her friend's staged an intervention at my husband's new home (across the street ) and alerted her father and I right in my daughter's presence that she had become addicted. Those girls cared about her enough to risk their friendship. I also found out, that like her father, my daughter was an alcoholic.

 

When I alerted the councilors, she was placed on the Methadone program, but still, there was little change in her behavior. She went through one councilor after another, each giving up on her. Ultimately, she was referred to a psychiatrist who told me that she felt my daughter had "Borderline Personality Disorder."

 

She's twenty-two now and I’m still having trouble accepting the diagnosis. Maybe I'm still in denial, but it was easier for me to believe that my daughter's behavior was more the result of mis-matched parenting skills and self-medicating than some psychological predisposition. But what I can't deny is that my own sister suffers from the same thing, and that although my relationship with my daughter has improved immensely, she still exhibits all the character traits attributed to this disorder.

 

I know this must sound like a nightmare story compared to yours, which is why I felt it might be good to share it. Just so you know you're NOT alone. There is quiet after the storm, more peaceful days on the horizon. But these next three years may test you and your marriage in ways you never imagined. You'll need to learn when to stand your ground and when to let go. THIS is where professional help can be a God-send…at least in regard to your own sanity.

[VivianLee]

Thanks so much for sharing Enigma! I know it had to be painful to relive all that....sometimes I wish there were a substance that was causing her to act this way, I think she does have some mental issues....we are going to change counselors because this one is not helping at all. We just have to find the right one but we are looking.

 

I told my husband that I was going to stay and I basically told him what you said. He is still leaning on me leaving, which has me a bit confused to a point. He says that seeing her act that violent towards me scared him but I am not afraid anymore. Last night I dreamed she was little again and I was looking in on her as she slept. She woke up and said; "I love you, Mommy." After I woke up, I just felt like crying, no matter what, she's still that little girl that "loved her Mommy" and needed her. I want that little girl back!

[EnigmaXOXO]

Shew.

 

Just went back through your posts, Vivian. This kid is sure dealing with a lot.

 

First, her own father paints some horrible image of her mother to justify his affair. Then chastises you in front of her again for doing the same thing so he can look like the "good guy."

 

In addition, several adult members of your church have supplied your under aged child and her friends with alcohol. Instead of the parents defending their children by prosecuting these irresponsible criminals, they decide it's better to protect the "church" by not getting involved.

 

If this doesn't send a kid mixed signals and destroy whatever trust and/or respect they have for adult authority, I don't know what else would.

 

And now, your husband is encouraging you to leave your home. Why? Is it really because of his concern for your "safety," or is he trying to look like the "good guy" again by rescuing his daughter from you…you know, that horrible evil witch that you are?

 

I agree that your husband needs to become more involved with the parenting of his daughter. If he wants to take over that responsibility - if he thinks he can do a better job - then step back a bit and let him take the reins for a while. But you don't have to leave the house in order to allow that to happen. Behind the scenes, the two of you need to cooperate and reach a middle ground. When my husband did this, my daughter got worse instead of better. He'd call me in the middle of the night crying - asking me to come over and help because he quickly realized he had bitten off more than he could chew. In his panic, he had literally nailed all the windows shut in his house to keep her from escaping at night. At least at our house, there was a burglar alarm installed to safely prevent the same thing. Can't imagine what would have happened if there was a fire, but hindsight is 20/20, eh?

 

BTW - by that time (she was seventeen) my daughter's rages had spiraled so out of control, that not only was she hitting her father, but she even took a swing at her councilor. We couldn't understand where it was coming from. We never used spanking or physical discipline in our home, nor did her father and I ever get into physical altercations or throw things around. As a matter of fact, it was rare that we even raised our voices or got into arguments because my husband would walk out of the house to avoid any kind of confrontation. Even "talking" about sensitive issues was difficult for him outside the controlled environment of the councilor's office.

 

Like our family Vivian, I don't think your daughter is the only one who needs some counseling. I think mom and dad could use a little help as well. There is a lot of damage to the parental relationship that has been left unrepaired …a lot of holes that need to be plugged and mended. Don't allow your embarrassment over past indiscretions to keep you both from seeking family counseling. Your good reputation among your church parishioners is not nearly as important as the survival of your family…and your own daughter. Believe me, we had to air our dirty laundry and expose our family secrets (much to the distain of our extended families) on more than one occasion. Before you can rescue at child a risk, you must first repair the entire family. It will be nearly impossible for the two of you to do it alone.

 

Isn't she worth it?

[VivianLee]

Originally posted by EnigmaXOXO

Shew.

 

Just went back through your posts, Vivian. This kid is sure dealing with a lot.

 

First, her own father paints some horrible image of her mother to justify his affair. Then chastises you in front of her again for doing the same thing so he can look like the "good guy."

 

In addition, several adult members of your church have supplied your under aged child and her friends with alcohol. Instead of the parents defending their children by prosecuting these irresponsible criminals, they decide it's better to protect the "church" by not getting involved.

 

If this doesn't send a kid mixed signals and destroy whatever trust and/or respect they have for adult authority, I don't know what else would.

 

And now, your husband is encouraging you to leave your home. Why? Is it really because of his concern for your "safety," or is he trying to look like the "good guy" again by rescuing his daughter from you…you know, that horrible evil witch that you are?

 

I agree that your husband needs to become more involved with the parenting of his daughter. If he wants to take over that responsibility - if he thinks he can do a better job - then step back a bit and let him take the reins for a while. But you don't have to leave the house in order to allow that to happen. Behind the scenes, the two of you need to cooperate and reach a middle ground. When my husband did this, my daughter got worse instead of better. He'd call me in the middle of the night crying - asking me to come over and help because he quickly realized he had bitten off more than he could chew. In his panic, he had literally nailed all the windows shut in his house to keep her from escaping at night. At least at our house, there was a burglar alarm installed to safely prevent the same thing. Can't imagine what would have happened if there was a fire, but hindsight is 20/20, eh?

 

BTW - by that time (she was seventeen) my daughter's rages had spiraled so out of control, that not only was she hitting her father, but she even took a swing at her councilor. We couldn't understand where it was coming from. We never used spanking or physical discipline in our home, nor did her father and I ever get into physical altercations or throw things around. As a matter of fact, it was rare that we even raised our voices or got into arguments because my husband would walk out of the house to avoid any kind of confrontation. Even "talking" about sensitive issues was difficult for him outside the controlled environment of the councilor's office.

 

Like our family Vivian, I don't think your daughter is the only one who needs some counseling. I think mom and dad could use a little help as well. There is a lot of damage to the parental relationship that has been left unrepaired …a lot of holes that need to be plugged and mended. Don't allow your embarrassment over past indiscretions to keep you both from seeking family counseling. Your good reputation among your church parishioners is not nearly as important as the survival of your family…and your own daughter. Believe me, we had to air our dirty laundry and expose our family secrets (much to the distain of our extended families) on more than one occasion. Before you can rescue at child a risk, you must first repair the entire family. It will be nearly impossible for the two of you to do it alone.

 

Isn't she worth it?

 

Let me just clarify a few things but other than that...I have complete faith in ALL your advice and will start taken the actions that you have suggested I take....

 

It was one member that gave her alcohol, on one occasion and she no longer attends. As bad as she is, if we'd had her prosecuted, her ex husband would have gotten her girls AND he is much worse than she....it was to protect the congregation AND her daughters from living with their Daddy who is much worse than the Mama.

 

The other adults to give her alcohol were her best friends Daddy and his sister. This guy is deep involved in drug activity and he's about to be brought in for that plus her best friends Mother and Step-Father are prosecuting him for his giving his daughter alcohol and maybe we're wrong but we just didn't want to get involved in their custody mess. They were able to get full custody without my daughter's testimony. My daughter is not allowed to hang around this young lady anymore.

 

The church knows about my husband's affair. He didn't come there to be their minister till over a year and a half after our separation and the affair. They do not know about my affair that took place while we've been there.

 

Again, the advice is sound and alot of damage needs to be repaired and a new outlook needs to be taken by her Daddy and I. I'm taking all the advice and will try to knock out one step at a time...

 

Thank you so much!!

[VivianLee]

Nevermind....read the "Other man and other woman" part of the forum...

[EnigmaXOXO]

Oh no, Viv.

 

I'm so, so sorry. I had no idea that you were still struggling with your own addiction. I was so hopeful that your family was on the way to recovery.

 

It's never too late for healing, and I hope you still reconsider getting some personal counseling to help with your grief. It would be so nice for you to get the support you need from an objective outside party.

 

Each day is another opportunity for change. Don't let it slip away.

[GUEST]

Look at what this child has been through.

 

You all are only hearing one side of this "story".

 

Maybe things are being made to sound more dramatic than they REALLY are.

 

Maybe the teen has so much anger because she was abused for a good bit of her life.

 

It's seriously sickening to see a parent call their child a monster, "screwed up", etc.

 

Viv you could seriously be the reason she has so much anger towards you.

 

Somebody does not have anger and hate towards a person unless that person has done something to them to make them feel that way.

 

No offense, but just something to think about.

[industrialdoll]

Its not always that way.

 

Speaking from personal experience, I have struggled with negative emotions as drastic as those all my life, the only difference is that I kept them inward. Taking it out on myself through physical and emotion ways. My dad always thought I was being selfish because of the sad and 'unappiciative' ways that I acted, until it started to come out physically and verbally.

 

Basically, its not always the parents fault, sometimes its the child, and thats not a bad thing, just something that takes patience, understanding, and good information behind it. My parents were great to me, but I was a ticking time bomb because of the inward aggression....I ended up having a panic attack that resulted in a few threats of admittance in to a hospital and then ultimately a complete nervous break down that lead me to the doctors that have been trying to pick up the pieces for months now. All the while my parents are sitting back and wondering 'what happened?', and I wish I could tell them, but the answers are too abstract for me to even explain.

 

As for 'emotions in the other direction', this still reminds me of the book 'And I Don't Want To Live This Life'. I know the reviews sound bad toward Nancy, but it really raises alot of red flags on the kind of behavior she presented as a child and the lack of 'help' she received. I recommend it defiantly!