Mrs. Moose Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 This might be a little extreme. But one time when our 14 year old mouthed Moose, Moose made him stand on one of the square tiles in the kitchen while he talked to him about respect. Chris wasn't allowed to step out of that square while Moose drilled him like that guy on Sally or whatever show that is with the guy that takes mouthy kids to a camp? He went on and on for almost an hour! By the time Moose was done, Chris was saying, "Sir", at the end of every sentence, and he had to call me, "Mam", for a week. After that week, he was a lot more respectful, although it seems to be wearing out a little now. You have to understand our situation though. Moose lost our kid's respect and he's been trying to re gain that for a while now. I think you're going through the same thing. One thing that sticks out in my mind that Moose says a lot to the kids is, "I made a lot of stupid mistakes in my life, but you have your whole life ahead of you, and it's MY job to make sure you learn from my mistakes, one thing's for certain, I'm still your Father and nothing and noone can change that." That always seems to shut the kids up when they're mouthing him. He always stresses that he's not going to stand for un ruly kids, they way they act is a direct reflection of how we were as parents. And one day, we have to answer to God about the job we did. That scares the crud out of me!!
quankanne Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 That always seems to shut the kids up when they're mouthing him. He always stresses that he's not going to stand for unruly kids, they way they act is a direct reflection of how we were as parents. And one day, we have to answer to God about the job we did. That scares the crud out of me!! I think you're guiding them in the right path, from what you've shared. Kids want a disciplined life -- even though they'll fight you tooth and nail -- because it tells them you love them. And that you're not going to let them walk all over you. They WANT you to defend that line, because it's their security net. Or so my niece once told me when she was going through puberty!
YellowLioness Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 I think you're guiding them in the right path, from what you've shared. Kids want a disciplined life -- even though they'll fight you tooth and nail -- because it tells them you love them. And that you're not going to let them walk all over you. They WANT you to defend that line, because it's their security net. Or so my niece once told me when she was going through puberty Amen Quank. Well said.
Moose Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 I just played that one by ear though.....I don't know what a, "Real Father", would've done in that situation. I just know that I hate to give spankins' and I'm not going to lay a hand on my kids, just because of my past.
Haunani Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 I agree there's turmoil in your daughter's life and she's been acting out to the people she felt safe in doing so - It might have nothing to do with the affairs, or it may have everything to do with them, one will never know what truly resides in her heart. They have a funny little way of showing their emotions. What I did with my 17 yo spoiled son who thought the world should serve him on a silver platter and that he's too smart for school etc, and when did they start feeling it's okay to swear in the home? Well, I've had just about enough, no amount of warnings, or butting heads with each other was making it any better, he had gotten cocky and brave with his mouth, he was also very much bigger n me - so I gave him 3 choices AND I gave him a deadline to make a choice, or I will make one for him - I put this on paper, like a contract; Either he go to school full time, put his best effort forward, quit being a bully and jerk in school, do what needs to be done to get your diploma, come home and do chores and be a responsible 17 year old adult contributing to family household or; I drop him from school since he's not only wasting the teachers time, but wasting mine and his own because they know *nothing*, and he knew everything, besides, why would you need a high school diploma anyway? and he had a mouth to prove it too, he needed to get a full time job, and pays the phone bill (which he's on all the time - even sleeps with it), contribute 1/2 of his pay for food, gas, and utilities, and $75.00 a month for his room or 3; he gets put in a mandatory (court ordered) program like Job-Corp, or an in home Youth Residential Program for kids (on another island), and he can maybe come home during Christmas - but first he would have to work at the program to earn money for his flight because we won't pay for it. And I gave him a date - 1 month from on the contract. And I promised myself to ignore the mouth, and *let him do what he's going to*, unless it was destructive behavior, I ignored it. Finally, one week before the date, I put a note on his bed: Dear Son, I love you so much it hurts and we want what is best for your future. Believe it or not, I was once a teenager, and now I only wish I had done better for my parents then, but it doesn't matter, they loved me unconditionally, as I do you. Remember you have week to make a decision, this will alter your life, so think on it. I love you always - Mom His mouthing had stopped - not completely, but for the most part, I can accept that., and he started working hard in school, he chose to remain there and graduate with his class. I was thrilled. But believe me, I would not have hesitated to put him in the youth services program. Now days kids are in a different generation and they know that WE as parents have a fine line between abuse and discipline pounded into our heads every day. I was even threatened with that one - right. Call the cops then. I'm not saying it turned around immediately, but there definately was progress once I stopped *harping*. Your daughter knows the buttons to push - and you react, she's good at it. You've already apologized, what more does she want? She's playing you. Ignore the behavior, and get tough Mom. That's JMHO. ~Good Luck.
Fayebelle Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 but you have to be willing to go thru w/the choice she makes. No backing down. It's not mean- it's tough love and we all need it sometimes. It's important to realize your friend needs a parent more than a friend. You also have to be prepared for her backlash- she may bring out your affair and you have to be willing to own up to it or say somethings are family business to anyone who butts in- Don't let her use your mistakes as ammo- w/out weapons, she will be defenseless and realize how much she does need protection (i.e. her parents) In the end- seeing you face your own choices and consequences may be just what she needs- to see that even adults screw up but there are reprocussions that have to be faced for wrong choices. And that people can survive anything that doesn't kill them. Good Luck and Keep us posted on how things are going. We're behind you whatever you choose to do.
Author VivianLee Posted October 1, 2004 Author Posted October 1, 2004 Y'all can't imagine how much the advice you've given me has really set me straight!! I'm talking all your advice and ideas to heart.... I have started things by writing this letter to my daughter, I had it on her computer last night for her to read when she got home from work.....here's what it said....it was late so I told her we would discuss the letter this weekend, by that time I (and her Daddy) will have her duties or chores or other responsibilities we expect from her, mapped out. L****, I’m writing you because rarely our talking works. I need to address some things and I want to get these things straightened out. Not just for our sakes but for the sake of the fact you’ll only live here less than 2 yrs. I don’t want these precious months to be a battle all the time. First of all, I love you. I love you more than anyone or anything I’ve ever had in my life. I never knew true love until I had you. From the moment I knew you existed, I loved you. When I saw you, I fell in love even more. You are the best thing that ever happened to me and I mean that. I will always love you that much and will never stop, no matter what. Loving you so much really causes me to be very perplexed as to why I’d ever participate in any behavior that would come back to hurt you. I know that no one is perfect but I’d always hoped that whatever sins I committed or whatever I did that might cause harm to someone, would never harm you. I’ll never be able to understand how I could have done things that would hurt you, especially after you’d already been through that with your Daddy. I know that life has been hard on you. Your Daddy and I have failed God, you and each other. We have both tried hard to make it up to you and live the right way. I know that losing trust is something very, very hard to get back but it’s not impossible. You have made me very proud over the years with your compassion and thoughtfulness. You still have these virtues in you and many people recognize it and are amazed. You have been a good friend and now you are a good employee at your job. Plus, you are respectful to your teachers and they love you. I see so many good things and hear so many good things. You have it in you to be a success, do what’s right and keep your life in order. However, you don’t utilize this to your best ability and most of it shows at home. Your temper and lack of respect has really become a terrible issue to deal with. Yes, I failed you and hurt you almost 10 months ago. It will take time to trust and to heal BUT I don’t think you are trying to trust or heal. I can only say “I’m sorry” so many times and I’m totally accountable to your Daddy and to you for what I do and it’s not because I have to, I don’t mind. I would like to move on and deal with having an affair. There needs to come a point in time where I forgive myself and don’t have to think about it, I’ve not been given that chance. There’s nothing wrong with me wanting that, I’m sure you wouldn’t want me to bring up something that you’ve done that’s terribly wrong, every time I got angry at you. I can’t get over this terrible mistake in my life if you keep bringing it up in such a cruel way. Every time you call me a whore, or ask me who I’m sleeping with or ask me how I’d feel if you tell people about ****** or ask me how ****** is or tell me your going to tell everyone so they will know what a whore I am….you cut open that wound of shame and I bleed all over again. Why do you hurt me so? How can you be so cruel? What in the world can I do to prove I’m trying to do what’s right and that I’m sorry? Secondly you tear me down. You call me a screw up and loser. If a parent continuously told their child that or if a spouse told their spouse that, it’s considered verbal abuse. When you tear me down and tell me how awful I am and how I don’t do anything worthwhile, I feel as if you’ve hit me in the face. The thing is, if you hit me in the face, the mark would heal but the words can’t be erased. I’ve never in my life been talked to so hateful and degrading as you talk to me, not even people I’ve considered my worse enemies or that hate me. It hurts so much that the person I love the most, hurts me the most. I get to the point where I dread being around you. I hate that because I love you so much and know that in a few years you won’t be around that much. You have got to start holding your tongue when you are angry. If something I do makes you mad, then discuss it calmly but if you are just angry because you are being punished or are not getting your way, then it’s best you hold your tongue, period. Calling me names and tearing me down is dishonoring me and it’s biblically wrong. You can’t use the excuse of my affair to act this way, you’ve been talking to me this way and losing your temper towards me since you were 13, that was 3 years before the affair with ******. No matter what I’ve done it is never an excuse for you to be this way. I am your mother, your parent. I can and will expect certain things from you. One will be that you no longer talk to me in the words or tone that you use or you will be severely punished from many things for many days. It has to stop NOW. You need to realize that you can’t just say anything to someone just because they will love you no matter what. If you don’t stop this now, it is going to carry on into your relationship with your husband and children. You also need to learn to forgive. Holding grudges is wrong and unhealthy. If a person doesn’t apologize, you need to learn to let go and move on. If you don’t learn this, you will become a very, very bitter woman. You need to learn to obey and be responsible for your actions. You expect this from your Daddy and I, you are commanded in the Bible to be this way as you are expected to be this way at home. You want to be treated like a 17 year old. I want to treat you like one also, with your freedom comes my freedom. If you can learn to obey the rules that we set for you and to act respectful and be responsible for your actions then you will be surprised how much freedom you can have. You will also hear a lot less from us as to what you should do, because you will be doing it. Your Daddy and I will sit down and give you a list of what you need to be responsible for and what you are accountable for. Things need to change and things will change. I want you to truly seek help for your anger through your counselor. I want you to learn to be respectful when you speak to me. If you do have a problem with me, I expect you to approach me tactfully and respectfully. L****, I truly love you and as I said before, I always will. As things are now, I don’t like you very much nor do I like being around you for a long period of time. Your words and tone hurt me, I’ve never experienced anything like it and I don’t like it. I have a hard time believing you love me due to this and that makes me breaks my heart. I will apologize again for my affair with ******. I am so sorry for hurting God, you and your Daddy and ******’s family. If I could take it all back, I would. I hope and feel like I’d never do anything like that again. I want you to be able to trust me again and I think you should start. Nothing I have done or could do causes me to deserve the disrespect I’m getting from you. I’ve told you what I expect of you and I don’t believe it is too much to ask. I love you so very much, Mama
Moose Posted October 1, 2004 Posted October 1, 2004 WOW!!! I honestly hope and pray that she'll take all those words to heart. Hang in there Viv.....we're all in this parenting thing together!!!
Author VivianLee Posted October 1, 2004 Author Posted October 1, 2004 Originally posted by Moose WOW!!! I honestly hope and pray that she'll take all those words to heart. Hang in there Viv.....we're all in this parenting thing together!!! Thanks Moose! I'm a'hangin'!!
Artifact Posted October 1, 2004 Posted October 1, 2004 I hope this helps the relationship you and your daughter (family) have! If I got that letter from my mom... I'd sure shape up. Good luck! And have a good weekend...
Author VivianLee Posted October 1, 2004 Author Posted October 1, 2004 Originally posted by Artifact I hope this helps the relationship you and your daughter (family) have! If I got that letter from my mom... I'd sure shape up. Good luck! And have a good weekend... Thankyou Artifact!! So far so good, Sunday will be the true test!! Monday, We spanked our daughter till she was about 12 and old enough to start being grounded. I had slapped her a few times in the past for her mouth (age 13 and 14) but my husband is against that and so that is no longer something I do (I'm not sure if it's right anyway)...as far as kicking her out....it's not that easy (and you'll see this when you have a child)....as far as we know she isn't doing drugs, drinking (except for one time) or sleeping around, she mostly has a HORRID attitude and verbally abuses....if she is mentally disturbed, it would be wrong to throw her out!! Just because life is miserable because of her and I'm hurt, I can't just quit being a Mama to her and leaving her on her own, she didn't asked to born.....she is 17 but she is still such a child.....but still thanks for the advice...I'm taking bits and pieces from everyone and really working out a good way to handle this!!
Author VivianLee Posted October 4, 2004 Author Posted October 4, 2004 Hey Kids! "all was quiet on the "southeastern" front" till Saturday night. That attitude started sprouting up and that mouth started as soon as her Daddy told her that she needed to do some things and go to bed so we could get to church on time..... It started again when she was running late and was sitting there petting the dog instead of getting ready and I told her to stop.... We left her (parent's here in Bama are ANTI letting our kids drive alone or in RACE WEEKEND traffic) so she was stuck at the house all day with out being able be on the computer (hubby fixed hers and ours where she couldn't get on ).... We talked on the way to church about my letter to her and what we were going to do..... Her "gripe" with us is that we tell her things SHE KNOWS!! Like.... Go to bed (she'll stay up late and then not feel like getting up the next day for school or church---"fun" events don't apply) Get your clothes ready before hand....(another thing that causes her to be late) Plus she will forget to get gas or get lunch money or anything else.... She will remember she needs her clothes washed at 11pm at night and have me wash them while she goes to bed.... We made sure the car was nice for her and her friends and gave her money to eat at a nice place and see a movie on Saturday... THIS ALL STOPS!!! I'd already mentioned to her (from y'alls suggestions) that she is going to be responsible AND no longer mouth off... It starts today... Her food for lunch or any "eat outs" she eats, are paid by HER! She pays for her own gas...she remembers to get gas...I won't remind, if she runs out, she runs out... She washes her clothes, which she better hope she remembers to do before midnight.... She has three events this weekend that are going to cost her money.. Homecoming-she wants to wear something new The camp she attends- Final Fall Fling this weekend ($25, it's a Christian camp and she loves to go but there is ALOT of good Christian influence at this camp so we may pay for it but have her pay us back on her payday Monday) A Country Fair (some country singers will be there- YUCK)- $25 So she better hope she budgets and plans her time wisely.... She is no longer being told what to do....she gets "to do" it all... We aren't trying to be mean to her but as y'all have suggested and know, tough love sometimes has to come in and it's for her good (Lord, I sound like MY parents!!) I'll keep y'all updated....please pray and keep your fingers crossed that this will work...it may take a while....
Author VivianLee Posted October 5, 2004 Author Posted October 5, 2004 You're in our prayers Viv......hang in there!!! Thank you! Originally posted by moimeme Sounds like a typical teen to me. The last post, yes, typical teen....her mouthing off and anger issues....a little overboard for typical...I think...
Author VivianLee Posted October 5, 2004 Author Posted October 5, 2004 Originally posted by Monday Good letter How's it working? Thanks! Well....for a few days it seemed to work, then the attitude came back....now we are in the process of having her responsible for EVERYTHING!! That has been an humbling experience for her, especially since this is an expensive week for her!
Author VivianLee Posted October 6, 2004 Author Posted October 6, 2004 OUCH!! My heart hurts!! She started complaining about her money not lasting and what all she needed... A new sweater she's picked out (that's $40.00 on sale ) Homecoming T-shirt- $15 (we paid for because she hadn't gotten paid yet BUT will pay us back) Camp- $25 Fair- $25 Not to mention lunch money and gas for this week....(she gets paid on Mondays)....she didn't get paid as much from last week because she worked a little less.... It's homecoming week so she went to Wal-Mart and spent $40 on paints and such to decorate. She said people would pay her back....after gas, it left her with little money.....now she's saying they aren't going to pay her back... She thought I was going to go with her yesterday and buy that sweater, pay for her her camp and fair..... She has a top and some shoes to carry back that will be enough for that sweater. That's what I told her. I also told her we'd pay for camp and the fair BUT she would pay us back Monday.... She hit the roof!! Why are y'all doing this to me??? I told her that if she thinks she doesn't need our advice or help then she is going to be responsible for EVERYTHING, since she wants freedom and no advice.... OMG you are cutting me off! No, we are not... Yes, you are.... You have no right to tell me what to do, you're just a housewife...you're NOTHING, you do NOTHING...you won't tell me what to do..... I got angry! I try to hold it back but I am PMSing....I should have ignored but I fussed back... She brought up the affair.... Then she told me to leave... I said No Then she said she would leave I said okay, if that's what you want to do... She decided not to.. I got ALOT of words in (not mean things) and pointed many things out that she didn't even have a comeback for..... The last thing she said to me was "why don't you just die?" "God, I wish you were dead" "Could you just please leave so I never have to see you again?" "Die!" Y'all this was over my telling her she would pay for her things and be responsible for the things she keeps telling us to stop telling her to do...... This can't be normal teen stuff!! Plus, I've been around her friends sometimes months on in 24/7 treating them the very same way I treat my daughter and they don't think I'm awful.. My huband's mother cheated on his Daddy numerous times....he never talked to his Mama like that, still loved her and appreciated the good things she did...... This is my baby, my world, the person that I have loved more than anyone else....she has been angry with me for a long time and I wish I could help her..... Y'all this child is still considered by all adults that come in contact with her as the best and most well behaved child they have ever seen. She is polite (yes mam and yes sir), from the time she was a baby, we could carry her anywhere and she'd behave (we carried her everywhere because of this), her teachers have always loved her and she has always been tenderhearted like volunteering to work at Nursing Homes. She thinks about others and worries about people she thinks are "pitiful".....but she's SATAN now when she is around us or home!! I'm going to stay strong, try not to argue back (It may mean overdosing on Midol) and her Daddy and I will keep the rules as they are.....I guess things aren't going to improve over night but my heart sure seems like it is about to cut into......what a mess....I know things could be worse...it's just so hard.... Well for what it's worth, there's the update
loveregardless Posted October 6, 2004 Posted October 6, 2004 I realize how hard this is for you and I am not trying to be negative towards you or bring up any discussion of past wounds...but I really feel as if your daughter might need a little defending of her own since I last checked in. I read your letter...and I thought that parts of it were wonderful..but i thought that other parts of it actually made the situation worse. First of all, imagine what it must be like to be her for a moment. She has been raised in this Christian lifestyle her whole life I assume? Everything that she has been taught is right and that she SHOULD do came crashing down the moment that she realized that her parents weren't being the example that they always enforced upon her. Especially since she is a teenage trying to figure out her own path in life right now, trying to make sense of sex and relationships and everything else that comes along with being a teenager...and the two people she looks up to more than anyone...have done one thing and then said, well we're sorry though so you can't keep holding it over our heads. damn straight she can. you seriously have no idea...no idea...how much spouses either divorcing our being unfaithful when they're children are old enough to fully comprehend it all f*cks with their heads! My mother decided in the middle of my senior year, when I was 17 that she no longer loved my father and was moving out to live with a man that she had met online. how do you think i reacted. I was furious. I was hurt. I felt betrayed and and abused. I went into a very deep hole which led to all kinds of very negative behavior and it has been more than a year since this happened and my mother and I are just now repairing our relationship. You may be her parent...and according to the bible she is commanded to respect you...but thats not the way it works in the real world. parents should not just receive respect because they are parents...parents have to earn the respect of their children. you cannot possibly expect her to want to heal the situation and not be angry anymore after mere months...it may take years and most definetly allot of counseling. I am sure that you are a great parent and I know that you love your daughter very much...but you have got to give HER more credit. If she is wonderful to everyone else in the world this should really set a ding ding ding off to you and your husband. your daughter has done nothing but be a teenager here and it is certainly more important for you to be sensitive to HER right now than for her to be sensitive to YOU. i'm sorry if this is negative or mean, but it's the truth. The day I felt my mother no longer deserved my respect I stopped giving it to her and she has had to earn it back...and she has really tried with all her heart and the one thing that made it better was her not expecting me to "understand" and her putting more energy into "understanding" me. you are the parent, you are the adult...not the other way around.
loveregardless Posted October 6, 2004 Posted October 6, 2004 i just felt very compelled to say these things. im sorry if i hurt your feelings at all...it was not my intention. you know i am in supposrt of helping you in the situation above all else.
Moose Posted October 6, 2004 Posted October 6, 2004 First of all, imagine what it must be like to be her for a moment. She has been raised in this Christian lifestyle her whole life I assume? Everything that she has been taught is right and that she SHOULD do came crashing down the moment that she realized that her parents weren't being the example that they always enforced upon her. I'm sorry Loveregardless, but my wife was raised the same exact way. She's told me time and time again that one of the reasons she loves me so much is because I showed her that life isn't all rainbows and teddy bears. Better for this young lady to figure that out about life now, rather then later. She should know that regardless what your beliefs are, we are still human and make mistakes. It doesn't matter how her parents decide to live, it matters how she decides to live. well we're sorry though so you can't keep holding it over our heads. damn straight she can. you seriously have no idea...no idea...how much spouses either divorcing our being unfaithful when they're children are old enough to fully comprehend it all f*cks with their heads! All of this is true......except that she can hold it against her Mom every chance she gets. Now, if she was out on her own, her own apartment, being self sufficient and not relying on Mom, then, and only then can she use that card. While she's at Mom's house, she should follow Mom's rules, and respect Mom and her house. End of story. You may be her parent...and according to the bible she is commanded to respect you...but thats not the way it works in the real world. parents should not just receive respect because they are parents...parents have to earn the respect of their children. Boy, do I know how true this statement is. But, let me tell you something. Even since I lost respect of my kids, I don't allow them to bad mouth me, yell at me, or disrespect me. I am still their Father and nothing can change that, nothing. Until they move out and aren't dependant on me anymore, they will respect me in my house or they can get out. When Viv told us what her daughter said to her: "The last thing she said to me was "why don't you just die?" "God, I wish you were dead" "Could you just please leave so I never have to see you again?" "Die!" , I don't care if she called social services, I would've locked the door behind me and whipped her butt so hard she wouldn't be able to FART without it making her scream in pain!!!! If she is wonderful to everyone else in the world this should really set a ding ding ding off to you and your husband. your daughter has done nothing but be a teenager here and it is certainly more important for you to be sensitive to HER right now than for her to be sensitive to YOU. Viv has tried, and tried, and tried to be just that. This young lady won't have nothing to do with it. I think Viv is on the right track, and to be honest, if I were there, I would be alot harder on this girl, that's for sure. Loveregardless, I do love you, you know that, but in this day and age, kids all over the world are losing the core values that keep families strong. This young lady is getting a taste of adult life, and it's bitter in her mouth. Viv is being the good parent and showing her daughter that mistakes or no, she still loves her daughter unconditionally, and only want her daughter to be the same. Her daughter abuses her on a daily basis and she shouldn't have to take this. I don't care if Viv made a mistake or not. It's time to leave that crap behind and move on. There isn't anything that her daughter could do to her that would cause Viv to treat her daughter the way that her daughter treats her.
loveregardless Posted October 6, 2004 Posted October 6, 2004 I'm sorry Loveregardless, but my wife was raised the same exact way. She's told me time and time again that one of the reasons she loves me so much is because I showed her that life isn't all rainbows and teddy bears. Better for this young lady to figure that out about life now, rather then later. She should know that regardless what your beliefs are, we are still human and make mistakes. It doesn't matter how her parents decide to live, it matters how she decides to live. Of course the world is not all teddy bears and rainbows, butm ESPECIALLY when being raised in a strict Christian household...can you not see how this would completely confuse the hell out of her? she is supposed to be waiting until she is married to have sex I assume...not drinking or behaving badly...not "sinning" and then this...how can you not see how confused this child must be?! All of this is true......except that she can hold it against her Mom every chance she gets. Now, if she was out on her own, her own apartment, being self sufficient and not relying on Mom, then, and only then can she use that card. While she's at Mom's house, she should follow Mom's rules, and respect Mom and her house. End of story. She's only 16!!! She is not an adult and quite frankly doesn't have that option...and how dangerous would that be for her?! Boy, do I know how true this statement is. But, let me tell you something. Even since I lost respect of my kids, I don't allow them to bad mouth me, yell at me, or disrespect me. I am still their Father and nothing can change that, nothing. Until they move out and aren't dependant on me anymore, they will respect me in my house or they can get out. When Viv told us what her daughter said to her: "The last thing she said to me was "why don't you just die?" "God, I wish you were dead" "Could you just please leave so I never have to see you again?" "Die!" , I don't care if she called social services, I would've locked the door behind me and whipped her butt so hard she wouldn't be able to FART without it making her scream in pain!!!! She doesn't mean those things. She is hurt and angry...very angry and has not learned how to control her emotions or properly express them. And I am completely against hitting your children, especially grown children, and if anyone tried to beat me in any way shape or form not only would I call child services but I would go completely ape sh*t and do some beating of my own. thats ridiculous Moose. Responding to verbal violence with physical violence isn't going to solve anything. Again, another wonderful suggestion from the bible..."spare the rod spoil the child"...thats bullsh*t...and violence of any kind is completely unnacceptable and something I have no tolerance for! Loveregardless, I do love you, you know that, but in this day and age, kids all over the world are losing the core values that keep families strong. This young lady is getting a taste of adult life, and it's bitter in her mouth. Viv is being the good parent and showing her daughter that mistakes or no, she still loves her daughter unconditionally, and only want her daughter to be the same. Her daughter abuses her on a daily basis and she shouldn't have to take this. I don't care if Viv made a mistake or not. It's time to leave that crap behind and move on. There isn't anything that her daughter could do to her that would cause Viv to treat her daughter the way that her daughter treats her. In this day and age the entire world has lost its values and morals and I'm sorry, I'm not trying to get into a religious discussion with you...but the Christian ideas of morals and ethics are completely that, specific to Christianity...the idea that parents should have the unconditional respect of their children is ridiculous. Very few parents deserve that from their children in this day and age...very few. We are not good parents to our children anymore...bottom line. We are raising our children in a society that is not good either...what do you honestly expect? Our children are a lot smarter than we give them credit for...but they are also a lot more emotionally sensitive than we realize... some books I've read even suggest that since about 1982 their has been an evolutionary jump in the sensitivity of human beings...a completely necessary evolutionary jump due to the obvious declination of civilization... her daughter is so angry and so very hurt right now Moose you have no idea. I was there very recently...I still AM there...and even with that aside she probably has emotional/hormonal issues without any added help...she is a teenager growing up in a confusing world right now as it is...you have no idea how hard it is just to be a kid or teenager at this point in time...no idea...I love you very much, too Moose...and I know that Vivian is trying...I never said she was not trying...but everything I said is very real and needs to be recognized if the situation is going to get any better...because I promise you...unless she see's the side I'm speaking of, the view from her daughters eyes...it will not get better and if anything it will only get worse.
Moose Posted October 6, 2004 Posted October 6, 2004 Loveregardless, It's not fair for you to say that I don't know where this young lady is coming from. My Dad left before I even had a chance to know him, now my mom is on husband number 4.....I know where this girl is coming from. AND, I know what lies ahead for her too....... Regardless, she's shouldn't be this loud, vulger teen running around Viv's house like she owns it. There's no excuse for that.......none.
Haunani Posted October 6, 2004 Posted October 6, 2004 Loveregardless.......while I can certainly understand your anger and frustration with your mother, and that only now it appears that your relationship is somewhat getting back to *normal*, I cannot agree that she must continue to be a doormat to her daughter. We only have one mom and one dad in most instances, while I agree that trust has to be an *earned*right, it works both ways, the daughter must also be willing to let the hurt and betrayal go and hold her tongue, and not be so quick to judge. The fact is that this began before both affairs ever happened, why would the daughter feel compelled to only breathe down the Mom's throat when they are both at fault? What is the point of having such animosity hanging in your environment, and reminded on a daily basis by your daughter of your wrongdoing when a) the daughter is of age b) this is STILL the parents home and c) they (the parents) are still together, and are still in the relationship trying to build it back. So what you're saying is the daughter has every right to hang this over her head for as long as she *remembers it*, and hasn't *earned back the trust*. As long as she (the daughter) remains at a distance and has the wall up, there will never be chance for reconciliation, and that the Mom should just be *sensitive* to her needs right now, and continue being a door mat just to *win her back* - and this all being *hopeful* because there are no guarantees that even if the Mom flips backwards and sideways that the daughter will budge an inch. Anger runs deep on both ends. Whilst the mom is trying to gain back her trust and love from her daughter, the daughter is demanding respect and independance, and both are caught up in the whirlwind of the tunnel, they cannot bring their head up to breath. However, I still hold my ground that the daughter may be a *typical* teen with a mouth and attitude, granted, but still it's not her house, no matter how hateful she is towards Mom, there still needs to be some respect and responsibility as any teen would. In my house yes my kids do sometimes have an attitude, and fortunately, they need me, my love, my money, my time, my rides, my check book, my........whatever, more than I need their *attitude*. And they know this, there is a fine line between respect and disrespectful. You can hate me, but still be respectful. That's my opinion........I'm really glad that you and your mom are trying to repair the damaged, there can be no greater loss of that of a parent who actually leaves this world, and you have not had time to even say *I'm sorry* *I love you*. I would devasted..........
loveregardless Posted October 6, 2004 Posted October 6, 2004 I'm just trying to show you her point of view. And Moose...I understand that you may have had issues similar in nature in the past....I'm sure many people have as well...but just because everyone else in the world can "get over it" doesn't mean that this little girl can. she is obviously having very very deep emotional problems right now that are not getting any better...and it is unfair to expect her to have already just because at some point we may have been in a similar situation. And as I said, this girl obviously has issues completely seperate and preceding these events and this has only worsened her case. As far as her taking it out on her mother and not her father...I assume that before this ever happened she was porbably closer with her mother than with her father...this is how it often happens. So of course her mother is going to be the one she takes it out on as apposed to her father...it doesn't mean that she holds her father in any higher esteem than her mother it is jut who she is most comfortable with good/bad or otherwise. I cannot agree that she must continue to be a doormat to her daughter. and I don't think that she should either...I just think that it is not going to be possible for the situation to be reconciled even remotely yet because the girl has not been able to correctly work through her issues even prior to these events and that this has only pushed her so much farther over the edge that she is practically incapable of being reasonable...it doesn't matter how much Vivian wants to fix it and overcome it...her daughter is not to that stage yet and so any attempt at forcing her is futile! I love my parents very much and I appreciate everything they have done for me in my life...I have matured alot in the last year or so...but I surely wasn't where I am now then, and nothing helped me but me and my parents backing off of me. Again I would like to bring up what I mentioned about future generations being more evolutionarily advanced that us... our children are not as naive as we think and they "feel" much more than you realize...I know this because I am one of these children in this supposedly new group since 1982...and believe me...I am so sensitive to EVERYTHING you have no idea. No idea! no idea at all...and if this girl is anything like me, anywhere near as sensitive as me...this this is most likely causing her her emotional problems. It is a blessing and a curse....we are able to understand people better but at the same time nothing makes sense to us. I say you have no idea...because you have NO IDEA! and if you do...then I am so sorry for you, because I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.
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