What can I do about my 17 yr old daughter/Is she a monster or disturbed??

[Moose]

Loveregardless,

 

When you went through this, did you treat your parents the way this young lady treats Viv? I may not be able to, "have an idea", what you mean, but the fact is, no parent should have to put up with this type of behavior in their house, no parent. I don't care if this parent is a, "new age", parent or whatever. This type of behavior doesn't need counceling in my opinion either. She may have other issues and perhaps that needs attention. BUT, and I mean a very BIG BUTT, no teenager should show such disrespect......ever.

 

That's just my opinion. I know things are tough for her, and she needs attention and love......but Viv shouldn't have to wait around for her daughter to get her act together in order to have peace. It's Viv's house!! Call me old fashion, but I even kicked out my best friends once for showing disrespect towards my family.......I won't tolerate it in MY house.

 

There is no excuse whatsoever for a teen to treat their parents with disrespect, I stand firm on that with every fiber of my being. If they do, then they should be prepared to suffer the consequences.

 

That's all I'm saying about it.

[Haunani]

Originally posted by loveregardless

 

She doesn't mean those things. She is hurt and angry...very angry and has not learned how to control her emotions or properly express them. And I am completely against hitting your children, especially grown children, and if anyone tried to beat me in any way shape or form not only would I call child services but I would go completely ape sh*t and do some beating of my own. thats ridiculous Moose. Responding to verbal violence with physical violence isn't going to solve anything. Again, another wonderful suggestion from the bible..."spare the rod spoil the child"...thats bullsh*t...and violence of any kind is completely unnacceptable and something I have no tolerance for!

 

In this day and age the entire world has lost its values and morals and I'm sorry, I'm not trying to get into a religious discussion with you...but the Christian ideas of morals and ethics are completely that, specific to Christianity...the idea that parents should have the unconditional respect of their children is ridiculous. Very few parents deserve that from their children in this day and age...very few. We are not good parents to our children anymore...bottom line. We are raising our children in a society that is not good either...what do you honestly expect? Our children are a lot smarter than we give them credit for...but they are also a lot more emotionally sensitive than we realize... some books I've read even suggest that since about 1982 their has been an evolutionary jump in the sensitivity of human beings...a completely necessary evolutionary jump due to the obvious declination of civilization...

 

Wow..........whew, take a breath.......the daughter is in deed 17, not 16 as you state, so she's much closer to legal age and being on her own very soon. I'm quite sure many of us had already been on our own at 17.......that's no mystery.

 

Sure this is a different generation, but to categorize *very few parents* are not good parents anymore is ridiculous.... What about the *parents* rights. In my generation, we never ever talked back for fear of getting spanking, but then again, *spanking* and *abuse* are totally 2 different things. I learned to respect my parents growing up, I totally loved my parents for how hard they worked, I never asked for anything, not like now, these kids are spoiled, they *expect* everything to be handed to them, they don't know what *work for it* means, when you ask them to do chores, their eyes get stuck in the back of their head, the hand goes up - *later* is always at the tip of their tongues while they play their video games. The kids come home with knowledge from the police department that have now days when they have assembly in school, that if any parent *hits * them, call the cops. My then 7 year old, came home with this powerful knowledge and tested it out - while he decided to try a hand at *controlling * me, his mother, as I gave him his chores for the day (clean the room, straightened the 4 pairs of shoes outside the door), and his homework, he stood firm as he told me *No* I want to play first........then proceeded to go make a snack, and went to play his video games. I unplugged the tv, the video and put it in my room, and took away his snack, he started screaming at me saying *You are a f*cken a**h**** - this being 7 okay. I got the tabasco put a few dabs on my finger and put it on his lips, and told him he is never to speak that way to me again, and he continued his tirade yelling that he's calling the cops because I was being *abusive*, and he did, he began dialing the number and pulled the plug from the phone. I stood my ground, I locked all the doors, I didn't spank him - then, I didn't yell, and simply took him by his shoulders, sat him in the chair, and told him that he will sit there until his homework was done, he absolutely refused, and continued his cussing, I got the soap, and rubbed some on his tongue, it didn't sway him, he was testing me, pushing my limits, he continued his *control*, and at 7, he has none. Finally, the last straw, was I took him over my knee, swatted him a good couple times and his butt was red, and he sad there on the chair sobbing and apologizing with tears running down on his homework, and he didn't cuss anymore, and he finally finished his chores later than night.

 

So please don't tell me about *kids rights* any less than parents rights these days. I don't believe either in *abuse*, but I believe in *discipline*, and with utmost *respect* in my home. But I also *respect* my children too - it works 2 ways.

[loveregardless]

and your entitled to it...that doesn't as I've said many a time before my dear sweet man, make it "right".

I have said everything I can say and I hope that Vivian will consider it with an open mind and an open heart. Everything in life is not black and white...it isn't even all grey...expecting it to be doesn't solve anything.

 

Not only did I treat my parents like hell afterwards...but I was WORSE before....just in trying to deal with the fact that I was a teenager...on top of that a bipolar teenager...on top of that what I know realize was a "clairsentient" teenager...

 

new age or otherwise raising a child with this additude is wrong and detrimental to their emotional and pychological development...I think raising a child in astrict dogmatic religion of any kind is also wrong...but thats a whole other story and you know I am not going there.

 

and "new age" thinking isn't new...its just new that people have the guts to stand up against the Christian church because now they won't have their libraries burned our be hanged for being a witch or be otherwise told they are wrong/crazy and persecuted, etc....

 

Moose as much as I love you your closemindedness is starting to completely define you...

[loveregardless]

we live in a society completely defined by instant gratification and having everything handed yo us...we always want what is quick and what is easy...we can't live without our cell phones, our computers, our televisions or our "stuff" and you expect our kids to understand the value of hard work?????

 

and its not ridiculous that very few parents are good parents its TRUE and to not see that and to not see the detriment that our socitey causes to the growing mind of a child is ridiculous.

 

I'm done now...

[Haunani]

Sorry got off track there for a minute..........just wanted to say *Hang in there*, and as we say in Hawaiian *Kulia' i ka nuu* Be steadfast.....hold your ground. You have every right as a parent, in your own home, to demand respect. She doesn't even hate to like you very much or even love you that's totally her perogative, but she does have to respect you.

 

And you are doing great with the *let her be*. She will eventually come to realize that she needs you more than you need her. Just remember when payday rolls around, be loving and firm, and remind her about her *loans*, if she refuses to pay, don't make an issue of it, drop it, but remind her of this the *next time* and believe me, there will be - I even use a little tickler book to remind myself cause you know, sometimes getting into these arguments my son wants to know *when did I borrow it*......... and I have the dates right there

 

Stay strong, both you and your husband need to be one and support each other in this. Be consistent and loving even if she remains wired tongue attitude, don't fall into the trap.

 

~H

[Moose]

we live in a society completely defined by instant gratification and having everything handed yo us...we always want what is quick and what is easy...we can't live without our cell phones, our computers, our televisions or our "stuff" and you expect our kids to understand the value of hard work?????

 

I don't expect anybodies kids to understand, but MY kids can and as long as I'm alive, they will!

[Haunani]

Originally posted by loveregardless

we live in a society completely defined by instant gratification and having everything handed yo us...we always want what is quick and what is easy...we can't live without our cell phones, our computers, our televisions or our "stuff" and you expect our kids to understand the value of hard work?????

 

and its not ridiculous that very few parents are good parents its TRUE and to not see that and to not see the detriment that our socitey causes to the growing mind of a child is ridiculous.

 

I'm done now...

 

Yes lover........I'm sorry for your way of thinking, if you walked around life with such anger and hatred and put the blame on what your parents did is such a waste of life. We all have a *choice* in life. You don't go down the wrong path, do drugs and become a wino because your parents did something *you* can't accept. You have a choice in life to either continue hating them, making your relationship with them, misterable and unhappy, and *divorce* your parents, pretending they don't exist, or you can accept that they are human, they make mistakes, just like the rest of us, and you put it past you and move on the best you can.

 

As far as your comment about wanting instant gratification - oh trust me, I've pulled the tv, stereo, and cell phones from my kids because they needed an *attitude adjustment*, not everything is handed to them, simply because they *want* it. They have to earn it too, and no I'm not just going to give it to them, they have to know they will pay for it... I'm sorry for you, that you don't know what hard work is therefore taking what you have for granted.

 

I agree that children's mental health issues are in dire need of attention and demand, and it's unfortunate that many states do not have the resources to provide this as well as many other programs directed towards family health and happiness.

 

Good luck in finding the right happiness.

[Haunani]

You alright Moose..........

 

I like your values, it's on the same line as mine!

 

........ and that's why even though my dad raised us kids with a firm but gentle loving hands, he is and always has been my greatest inspiration. I'd never take them for granted, I'm totally blessed.

[loveregardless]

I'm sorry for your way of thinking, if you walked around life with such anger and hatred and put the blame on what your parents did is such a waste of life. We all have a *choice* in life. You don't go down the wrong path, do drugs and become a wino because your parents did something *you* can't accept. You have a choice in life to either continue hating them, making your relationship with them, misterable and unhappy, and *divorce* your parents, pretending they don't exist, or you can accept that they are human, they make mistakes, just like the rest of us, and you put it past you and move on the best you can.

 

I don't know where you got the impression that I am walking around with anger and hatred towards my parents, but you are very wrong about that. I love my parents very much and I have the ability of seeing beyond them as parents and to the core of their own personality, and even to see what effects my grandparents had in raising them which led them to raise me in certain ways, etc. etc. I can see much further and understand much more than you are giving me credit for or realizing. My father did many things that I disagreed with in raising me, but the one thing that he always did was gave me the option of disagreeing with him about it. It was extremely hard for him to do so and my father has grown up just as much as I have in the last few years. He was raised to be just as "old fashioned", "strict" and conservative southern baptist type that I'm sure both of you are. That doesn't mean that he automatically assumed he was correct. For you to not recognize the connection between parenting and drug use/sex, etc. is ridiculous and isn't even worht trying to explain. Yes, every child has a choice of whether or not to do something or not, but every parent has a commitment to their children to provide them with all of the correct support and tools and a child NOT given those is much more likely to turn to these types of behaviors. A strict parent and an overly lenient parent are equally as harmful to a child...moderation is the key to anything...additude and openmindeness as well.

 

As far as your comment about wanting instant gratification - oh trust me, I've pulled the tv, stereo, and cell phones from my kids because they needed an *attitude adjustment*, not everything is handed to them, simply because they *want* it. They have to earn it too, and no I'm not just going to give it to them, they have to know they will pay for it... I'm sorry for you, that you don't know what hard work is therefore taking what you have for granted.

 

How dare you judge me? you do not know me so stop assuming that you do. I do not know the value of hard work? My father pays for my car and my insurance...and my school this is true. Mostly this is because my father is desperately trying to make up for the connection that was nonexistent when I was younger and while he maintained such a closeminded additude. My mother and I were only close because she was a female as I was and as I grew up I realized that I had surpassed my mother in maturity at a very young age. But as far as the rest of the things that I own-I have bought them all myself and worked at a real job since the day turned 16. I was babysitting for years before that. I bought all of my own clothing since then...all of my own spending money has been earned 100% by me. I also used to volunteer and was a part of many community orginazations growing up. Do not tell me that I do not appreciate the things I have or that I do not know the value of anything.

 

Why is it that a prent will raise their children, having fully made the decision to bring a child into this world and care for it, a responsibilty they took on full knowing what would result...a full 18 years of parenthood...and yet a child is spoken of as if they OWE their parents ANYTHING. Anyone can be a parent...all it takes are sperm and an egg, it doesn't entitle you to anything. The child is the one who deserves the respect. How is a child nt to be confused when they are punished for every "wrong" they commit and the parents are never punished for their wrongs?

 

I appreciate that both you and Moose have the same thinking patterns, but again, that doesn't make them right and I am entitled to offer my advice just as much as you are and have myself be free of persecution or attack. I appreciate that you are incapable of seeing the other colors in the spectrum but that does not mean they do not exist. I appreciate that pointing a finger in our own direction when anything in life happens is not easy, but I also appreciate honesty...and neither one of you are being very honest with yourselves by assuming that you know what is "right" and that those behaviors could not potentially cause any sort of psychological/emotional damage to a child.

[Moose]

Loveregardless,

 

Ok, so maybe our views, and your views don't match. You can't say that you're right either.....what I mean by that is we differ in our core beliefs.....you think this is right:

 

How dare you judge me? you do not know me so stop assuming that you do. I do not know the value of hard work? My father pays for my car and my insurance...and my school this is true. Mostly this is because my father is desperately trying to make up for the connection that was nonexistent when I was younger and while he maintained such a closeminded additude.

 

I think it's DEAD WRONG!!! He's paying for these things because he's trying to make up for something? Sorry, but you wouldn't see me doing that. The respect I lost from my children may be my fault.....but I don't owe them a car, insurance, or school funds.....I owe them NOTHING, but an apology. If they forgive me, then great....if not, that's fine with me too, it shows that they are exercising their free will....but I'll strip naked and slide down a 30 foot razor blade and land in a pool of rubbing alcohol before I bribe my kids with possesions for their forgiveness.

 

For you to not recognize the connection between parenting and drug use/sex, etc. is ridiculous and isn't even worht trying to explain. Yes, every child has a choice of whether or not to do something or not, but every parent has a commitment to their children to provide them with all of the correct support and tools and a child NOT given those is much more likely to turn to these types of behaviors. A strict parent and an overly lenient parent are equally as harmful to a child...moderation is the key to anything...additude and openmindeness as well.

 

Who said that bad parenting and drug use has no connection? It certainly wasn't me. And I totally agree with your last statement....strict, and over leniant or both harmful. You know what's the worst? Doing nothing at all. Attitude and openmindedness is fine too, until the lack of respect becomes damaging to both the parent and the child. An unruly teen running rampid in a parents house, mouthing off, cursing and calling names is not acceptable.....when your child becomes a teen, you'll understand.

 

Anyone can be a parent...all it takes are sperm and an egg, it doesn't entitle you to anything. The child is the one who deserves the respect. How is a child nt to be confused when they are punished for every "wrong" they commit and the parents are never punished for their wrongs?

 

WHAT??? Just because you can take a sperm, put it in an egg, doesn't make you a parent! Maybe it doesn't entitle us to any benefits, but it does entitle us to raise our children in such a way to instill respect and politeness one to another. I agree with you that our children deserve respect, but I'm not going to stand by and NOT punish them for the things they do wrong. And you cannot tell me that us parents don't get the punishment we deserve when we do things wrong because we DO, just in way different FORMS!!!

 

I'm sorry loveregardless for sounding like I'm arguing with you. I really do understand where you're coming from.....even if you swear up and down that I couldn't possibly know, and you have your opinions....I have mine and I stand by them......no child has the right to treat their parents this way, no child!

[YellowLioness]

I'd like to share my story with you all:

 

My father was pretty absent most of my life. He walked out on me, my mom, and my little brother when I was five. He did this because he was sleeping with a woman 11 years his junior. He ended up marrying this woman.

 

My mom was left to raise two kids by herself on a teacher's salary while my dad started yet another family with this other woman.

 

My brother and I were ignored; he and L would go on vacations and send us post cards, because they never invited us.

 

It was like my dad and step mom and little sister were living in a snow globe. We could look in and watch, but never be apart of that life.

 

I'm close to coming to terms with this, but I'm not there yet.

 

When they had my little step sister, things remained much the same.

 

When L found out she was preggers, she took all of the things that my little brother and I had in the guest rooms, and moved them to make room for the baby, effectively kicking us out of their lives.

 

Now, my dad is trying to buy me things to make up his bad behavior during my childhood.

 

Frankly, I don't want to let him because I think it's wrong to let anyone buy my love, even if it is my dad.

[Haunani]

First I'm not a boy......

 

Lover, this isn't about you and me, or even Moose, this is about Viv, yes, you have every right to voice and speak your opinion, as much as the next guy. You're right, I don't know you, your feelings the same as you don't know me either. I'm not judging you, I'm commenting on your retorts which I believe, you are taking it out of context:

 

Originally posted by loveregardless Yes lover........I'm sorry for your way of thinking, if you walked around life with such anger and hatred and put the blame on what your parents did is such a waste of life.

 

I didn't say you hated YOUR parents, but that it appears that you are still very angry, okay, maybe *hatred* was a bad word, but your way of thinking, I guess is totally against mine, and that's your take on it, of what your mom did and you are trying to justify that they OWE you *as the child* in the *new generation* and you owe them nothing. That the child is the one that deserves respect.

I guess that's your opinion and your entitled to that, more power to you. Oh I'm openminded and easy going to a certain extent, just don't cross the line. Yes, I EXPECT that my children OWE me respect in my house. I also OWE them respect as well, it works both ways.

 

Originally posted by loveregardless and conservative southern baptist type that I'm sure both of you are

are you assuming you know me? are you judging me? because my religion has nothing to do with my opinion. and for your info - no I'm not.

 

 

Originally posted by loveregardless

we live in a society completely defined by instant gratification and having everything handed yo us...we always want what is quick and what is easy...we can't live without our cell phones, our computers, our televisions or our "stuff" and you expect our kids to understand the value of hard work?????

I'm done now...

 

I'm sorry, wasn't it you who said this? In one breath you are telling me that since our society wants instant gratification and everything handed to us, ........and you expect our kids to understand the value of hard work?????.........

Then come back stating your dad pays for the car, insurance and schooling? How old are you that your dad has to pay for this because YOU owe him NOTHING, and he owes YOU everything - bribing my child to gain my love, is not what I call RESPECT.

 

Lover, your comment that you wish we were being honest. trust me, I'm being very honest. I believe in honesty, and respect to the utmost highest. These are my children, and I will not tolerate disrepect and foul mouth in MY house. I OWE them nothing, I love them unconditionally. It comes with no strings attached, I don't keep score. Bottom line is this - in my opinin - that my child 17 years old spoke to me in the way that Viv's daughter did, regardless of whether or not I had an affair, because I can't bend over backwards anymore and if she's going to hold it over my head forever, and not try to make amends and move forward, and allowed her to continue on that path of destruction not only to herself, but the family will be brought down in the cussing/swearing/refused to do what is reasonably asked - I'm still the Mom, turn my cheek and do nothing, then it's my own damn fault, but If my 17 year old spoke and acted that way towards me and I played *tough love* when all else failed, (catering to every whim), I could at least say, I've given it my damn best shot, this is still MY house, my rules, and you live under them, you don't ilke it.....get out on your own, pay your own rent, your own bills and do what you like to do without anyone being in your way. End of story.

[loveregardless]

I was not aware that my comment came across sounding as it did about my father paying for my things.

First of all, I am only 19 and I work at his office and do not come anywhere near close enough financially to be able to pay for my own car or insurance or school. If I had a different job I would be able to afford more but he needs my help here at the office so this is the exchange we make. I also said that I think my father is so supportive of me financially because he feels like he must do everything to support my sister and I since he feels he made a lot of mistakes in the past. He doesn't want my sister and I to wind up a mess because of everything that has happened the last few years and therefore continues to be financially supportive of me even though I no longer live in his house. My father has never had to bribe me for any reason. He doesn't lavish me with gifts or pay his way into my heart. I misrepresented the situation with my comment before. I will make sure and double check my responses next time because that was certianly not what I was trying to say.

 

Other than that I'm done.

[Moose]

Loveregardless,

 

Don't worry about it, it happens a lot to me too.

[loveregardless]

I really do love you to death Moose and you know what I was TRYING to say right...I mean, I know we don't agree about everything, but we at least understand what the other person means for the most part. I was just trying to shine some different light on the situation. I don't really know Haunani at all and so I really wasn't responding in the greatest way to any of HER questions/comments...I was trying to keep up with both of you and remember what my point was and I just got confused and a little defensive myself. (not that I was being tag teamed or anything ) My father is a great man, a wonderful father and has always given 150% of himself, I would NEVER want to make him sound like anything other than that. But this thread is to help Vivan and that's really all I was trying to do. But like I said, I'm done now...and I never meant to say that EITHER of you are not good parents....I make a lot of statements about humanity and modern civilization in "general"...you know how I feel about it as a "whole" and that is almost always the point I am trying to make...

I really am done now though and Huanani, I am sorry I called you a boy.

[VivianLee]

Loveregardless, I appreciate your view from someone that is a teen and someone that has been there. The pain you describe breaks my heart that you've felt it and that my daughter has felt it also. I have failed my daughter in other ways, even if I had not had this affair (or her father had his) we would have no doubt as imperfect humans done something that would have hurt her. She has done things that have hurt us also. I am not of your generation but I am sensitive, my daughter is sensitive and so is her father. Being sensitive doesn't not equate being unforgiving, in fact, the more sensitive a person is, the more they should be able to forgive.

 

Your posts read as if you are bitter. Some people apologize for hurts, others don't. Harboring the hurt for years and years doesn't do you a bit of good nor does it help the person that has hurt you to move on when they are apologetic and feel bad for what they've done.

 

People now days are so wrapped up in themselves, it's all about "what you can do for me".....that is wrong, whether you are religious or not, it's obvious that life can't be based on selfish needs for us to flourish....your parent's aren't the only people that are going to hurt you in life. People that love you and people that don't love you are going to hurt you in many ways, that's just life HOWEVER, you have got to somehow bring this sensitivity you have to be able to understand human beings as the imperfect and sometimes even cruel people they are AND learn to forgive (when asked) and move on either way.....

 

I have apologized to my daughter since February. I've not seen this man since January. I can understand if she never trusts me again. I can understand if she sees me as failure, a whore and a loser BUT she will out of respect face the fact that I am her Mama (flaws and all....show me a parent that doesn't have them), her elder and her caretaker, she will keep those thoughts to herself....one time was enough to voice them, have me react and apologize...I'm expected (by her) to NEVER bring up her flaws past (or current).....I deserve the same respect...

 

My husband's mother cheated on his Daddy multiple times, he witnessed it. He didn't respect that part of her but he treated her with the utmost respect (even if she'd slap him while drunk) and never stopped showing her love. I'm sure in his heart he felt like screaming "slut, whore and drunk" but he didn't do it (and so when he was by her side as she died last year, he has no regrets for what he said or did towards her), he knew that despite her terrible flaws, she was his mother and he was to adhere to her rules and to respect her at all times.....

 

Okay...

 

My daughter has not apologized to me for what she said. I feel she owes me one but I want her to offer it on her own.

 

I will say that now that we have implemented the rules and she realizes we are standing by them, she has humbled just a bit.

 

Wednesday after the last "fight"....she wasn't speaking to me. So therefore, I didn't know she and her friends were going to the park after school to paint t-shirts for homecoming. She gets home around 3:15. By 4:00pm, I was scared to death. I went out and looked for her in case she broke down (after what she said to me Tuesday, I didn't know what may be going on)....I drove past her school, her friends houses and all the other places I could think of that I knew she hung out. I glance out at the park but didn't notice her car.

 

After and hour I drive up to the house and her car is there. I'm livid!! I walk in and ask her if she's talk to her Daddy. She asks "Why?" I tell her just to tell me if she's talked to him or not (He was waiting to hear from me). She said "I talked to him, what's the problem?" I told her, "I've been all over two towns looking for you!" She said; "I told Daddy but he forgot (which is very plausible considering his poor memory) that I was going to the park and paint t-shirts, besides, why do you care where I am?" I was ill and I shot her a look and told her; "You have 5 minutes to be in that van so we can head out to church!" She said; "Yes mam!"

 

She talked my ears off all the way there!! She never pulled any attitude towards me the whole time and even on the way home!

Thursday, she was respectful and even said "I will just go to camp and not the fair because I can't afford to pay y'all back for both." I told her okay. (Normally I would have said, we'll go ahead and pay for the fair")

 

There is a hint, a hint of respect there now...

 

I know there will be set-backs but we are going to stay strong! Everything y'all have suggested is working and I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciate it!! I will keep y'all updated through the good and bad!! It means so much to have your support and words of wisdom!!

 

God Bless!!

[loveregardless]

Is that I am not bitter and I do not expect anyone to be perfect. I don't know why it is not clear that I can both realize a persons flaws and understand them as parents and as people...but not be bitter/hateful or twisted for it. Accepting it as reality doesn't necessarily mean I have any emotion about it at all. It's just how it is.

 

By not realizing that for "some" reason your daugher is incapable of what you are desiring from her right now the situation will not be solved. I never judged you for what you did or said that parents should be perfect, I just said that because they are not, they're children react/grow/develope in certain ways....especially certain negative ways. I don't think anyone of any belief can dispute that. That's all I was saying...

 

I will in the future not be using any personal examples from my family life because obviously the only thing anyone wants to do is counsel me and judge me for it...

 

Because of the beliefe systems that you subsribe to you are of the opinion that a parent deserves respect no matter what their behavior may be...I on the other hand do not. I don't think that if a child does not receive the proper respect they deserve that they should be forced to give it to their parents.

 

I was in no way saying that you don't deserve you childs respect however...only that it is not going to work for you to simply demand it of her without realizing where she is coming from, what stage of life she is in, and what role that leaves her to play. And unfortunately being sensitive, super sensitive, does not mean it is easier to forgive people. It means it is harder to deal with any and every emotion at all...including forgiveness. I promise you that your daughter does not choose to have this much anger, hurt and resentment...it is not a choice that she makes to lose her temper and have one of these epidodes...she has not yet developed the skills necessary to deal with her emotions and her feelings/thoughts about the world and will not unless she is helped to by therapy or eventually arrives at that level of maturity herself, it will not just "change".

 

Her behavior when she is not "out of control" however is another story than the one you updated us with and I am glad that she is making progress with you in conversation and normal interaction. Just don't be surprised when she still "loses it"...because that is a completely seperate issue and takes a lot more to overcome. And don't think that she is not making progress when she does get "out of control" this way...you have to treat her "epidodes" and her behavior as seperate things.

 

I however really am done now. I wish you the best of luck and I never meant any ill will towards any of you. Like I said, just because I state what I feel is the reality of a situation (especially of our world and our society) doesn't mean there are any emotions linked with it. I can analyze a situation and not have an emotion tied to it...I was trying to be unbiased and look at it from every angle...not argue.

[Moose]

GOOD DEAL!!!

 

It's gonna take time. By the way, I have another suggestion that really helped me out too. I call it a:

 

"Family Cleansing"

 

We each wrote down things that hurt us this past year that we held against one another on seperate sheets of paper. We all took a week to do this because sometimes you just need to be in different enviroments to refresh your memory. We then made an appointment for the cleansing.

 

We all sat in a circle around a small campfire, one by one we read each greivance, whomever it was against had to apologize, ( Usually a discussion about it would bring light as to why that person wronged the other), and then we'd toss the paper into the fire, never to remember it again.

 

I know it sounds like some sort of a ritual, but it works. See if your daughter and hubby would be up for that.

[loveregardless]

except fot the part about discussing whether or not the person was REALLY wronged. If the person thought they were wronged it still has the same effect even if in relaity they were not. That's too much of an opinion to be discussed. But believe it or not Mr., this is a very "new age" concept (ceremony/ritual)of releasing pain and resentment...it is a good thing to do this about everyone and everything in your life because holding any kind of negative emotions inside is only causing yourself harm...forgiveness is the key to hapiness...I completely agree...but you have to be "there" to forgive...just saying it and not really feeling it doesn't get the job done. but great idea...wonderful...

[Moose]

Because of the beliefe systems that you subsribe to you are of the opinion that a parent deserves respect no matter what their behavior may be...I on the other hand do not. I don't think that if a child does not receive the proper respect they deserve that they should be forced to give it to their parents.

 

Love, I know you said you were done, but I have to make a point to you....I don't really think it's our religion that makes us believe our children should have repect no matter what. I don't believe that they should, really.....I do however believe that respect, or no respect, displays of anger and literally putting your parents down and mouthing back isn't acceptable in the parents house.

 

That's the respect I'm talking about. It is possible for a child to treat his/her parents with respect without agreeing to that parent's actions. Maybe I should just call it common courtesy towards the parent.....not so much respect.

 

Wouldn't you agree that everyone deserves common courtesy? Maybe not that of a serial killer, or a rapist.....I just mean the average ordinary jack and jill.

[loveregardless]

I never said that I didn't think people should be courteous and kind to one another. Come on Moose, do you really think that I would think it was ok to be rude/mean/nasty to someone for any reason? You know I do not...but that doesn't mean that will make it stop. I am a mature so called-adult now, I have learned and developed so much in the last few years and now am capable of controlling my emotions and thoughts/feelings more effectively than I could when I was younger. When I was younger I was completely incapable--bottom line..because believe me, I hated my episodes more than my parents did. I felt like i was on the inside looking out, just waiting for it all to end. I was miserable and I was terrified of myself...it was an awful awful thing to go through. But the only thing that got me through it was me...therapy helped...but no one can ultimately change you but you. And being bipolar and clairsentient(whether anyone believes in that or not) made it just THAT much harder...it is a constant and daily struggle to deal with my emotions positively, and sometimes I'm still no good at it and I feel like I'm no further than I was when I started.

 

So in answer to your question...yes...I do believe that all people deserve common courtesy and even a certain level of respect...but unfortunately our children do not have this capacity as we do at times. They are not consciously, even if they are told, aware of how deeply their words effect others and how much their holding on to their suffering/pain/resentment hurts themselves. Most adults don't even REALLY understand this.

 

I was only responding to the stimuli I was given with my responses... It is not that I disagree with any of your arguments or think that any of you are wrong, I was just trying to discuss all the angles...children are so much more complicated than we realize and so much more sensitive and succeptable than we realize...they aren't "people" yet, thank God...it takes years of hardening and self control, pain and suffering, repressing and ultimately...changing of our core selves... to become "people"...once we grow up in this world, in my opinion, we will never regain what we were as children...the reality that children show us about the world is comparable to nothing else...and once we are adults we are mere shadows of what we once were and could have been...a complete 100% result of the nurturing we received.

[VivianLee]

Good idea Moose!!

 

 

Parent's are the first people in a person's life that sets down rules and should get respect...if we don't teach our children to respect us "regardless" then what are they going to do when they get to school, eventually college and then on a job with a teacher or boss that doesn't like them or treats them unfairly??

 

Telling them they are a slut, whore, loser and they wish they would die??

 

Episodes are nothing but temper-tantrums.....when she confronted me about my affair and when she brings it up, if she were to say, I'm so mad at you, I have a hard time trusting you and respecting you....that would be an episode or a drawback....using my situation to call me names and to hurt me is just being flat out hateful and a brat.....I don't care what she's been through or how sensitive she is....she doesn't treat anyone else this way so she can control it. She knows that teachers, other adults and friends wouldn't want anything to do with her nor love her, she knows I love her no matter what and takes advantage of that to hurt me....no matter what I've done, I don't believe there's a single excuse for it. She has an anger problem, that's why she is in therapy BUT the anger isn't so out of control that she can't hold it in when dealing with others....

 

I'm sorry loveregardless...I'm not buying it...I understand the hurt and anger is real but I think that with this subject you are basically feeling as my daughter and if you are acting this way towards your parent's (I don't think you are) then you are wrong!!

[loveregardless]

ok Vivian now I'm getting really upset because that is absolutely 100% wrong!!!!!!!

Temper Tantrums? How dare you?! How is she supposed to get better with support like that?

 

I'm so livid right now...I'm so done...

 

Make sure and tell her therapist about how you have no sympathy for her "temper tantrums" could you so that he/she can tell you that she thinks thats ridiculous, unsupportive and harmful!!!!! and don't leave out the hateful brat part...I think i'm going to be sick!

 

How dare you??? That is the most insensitive ignorant sh*t I have ever heard! At at your suggesting that I had temper tantrums and had control over those things then is Bullsh*t...complete B*ll****....and you know what, if i had a mother that treated me like that and said those things about me with a straight face then I wouldn't respect her either. How can you say these things?! I'm so upset right now....your poor daughter...I'm seriously not talking about this anymore. Way to be openminded and to have a genuine desire to help your daughter!

 

And how dare you judge me...I have been diagnosed as Bipolar as well as many other things and i don't think that either my psychiatrists or my psychologists just made it up so that I would have an excuse to have "temper tantrums"... and BTW you naive woman, people suffering from any sort of mental illness very rarely show their true selves to anyone but the people they are most close to. Read a damn book woman!

 

and I certianly don't need this anymore.

your daughter is never going to get better with your additude.

you have managed to make me feel just as horrible as I'm sure you make your daughter feel.

 

So much for courtesy and kindness... I can see EXACTLY how sensitive you are now! HA

[VivianLee]

Originally posted by loveregardless

ok Vivian now I'm getting really upset because that is absolutely 100% wrong!!!!!!!

Temper Tantrums? How dare you?! How is she supposed to get better with support like that?

 

I'm so livid right now...I'm so done...

 

Make sure and tell her therapist about how you have no sympathy for her "temper tantrums" could you so that he/she can tell you that she thinks thats ridiculous, unsupportive and harmful!!!!! and don't leave out the hateful brat part...I think i'm going to be sick!

 

How dare you??? That is the most insensitive ignorant sh*t I have ever heard! At at your suggesting that I had temper tantrums and had control over those things then is Bullsh*t...complete B*ll****....and you know what, if i had a mother that treated me like that and said those things about me with a straight face then I wouldn't respect her either. How can you say these things?! I'm so upset right now....your poor daughter...I'm seriously not talking about this anymore. Way to be openminded and to have a genuine desire to help your daughter!

 

And how dare you judge me...I have been diagnosed as Bipolar as well as many other things and i don't think that either my psychiatrists or my psychologists just made it up so that I would have an excuse to have "temper tantrums"... and BTW you naive woman, people suffering from any sort of mental illness very rarely show their true selves to anyone but the people they are most close to. Read a damn book woman!

 

and I certianly don't need this anymore.

your daughter is never going to get better with your additude.

you have managed to make me feel just as horrible as I'm sure you make your daughter feel.

 

So much for courtesy and kindness... I can see EXACTLY how sensitive you are now! HA

 

It would probably be best to recuse yourself from this thread because....

 

a.) you don't have children or a teenager i.e. you are not a parent as of yet

 

b.) I've done all these things you've suggested and all it's done has caused my daughter to run all over me

 

c.) your last post is just like talking to my daughter, it's hard enough to deal with her hateful thoughts towards me, I don't need to deal with a strangers on top of everything.

 

I hope and pray this hurt and bitterness you feel will heal. It's up to you and only you to have that change. Hopefully with medicine and therapy, you will be able to live with being bi-polar. I've seen people successfully live with it.

My daughter has been in therapy on and off for 3 years, she has a touch of social anxiety but she doesn't have a mental illness hence, I believe as any person that is actually a parent would believe, she is using the excuse of her hurt to pitch a good old fashion fit...REMEMBER she did this BEFORE my affair.....

 

Calm down but truly it may be best for you to just pull out of reading this thread...it doesn't seem to benefit you in any way...

[loveregardless]

are the one who needs praying for...please don't bother praying for me. I don't really want you on my side of things...God doesn't like self-righteous judgmental insensitivity any more than I do. Anything else you said isn't even valid enough to deserve a response. I will keep your daughter in my prayers however because I thought it was her we were trying to help this whole time here...not you. Apparently I was wrong.