Am I being too ruthless?

[Porridge]

I only gave my story a couple of days ago. In short, she doesn't love me anymore, she wants out, but she wants me to be complicit in looking after the children etc whilst she carries on her part-time job. That also means living under the same roof etc and me scurrying around to her demands.

 

No no no! Don't think so b****face! As she served dinner this evening, once again with smarmy, self assured, controlling swagger about how everything would be, I shot her down so hard you could hear the screams over the other side of the atlantic.

 

1. No, I won't work around your job.

2. Yes, i'll be involved with the kids in every way I can, but it won't be on your terms and it won't be organised according to your needs.

3. You want out? Then get the f*** out. I'm not going anywhere, this is my home and i've done nothing to deserve being turfed out.

4. Remember that person you had wrapped round your finger when you went off the rails four years ago? He's gone sweetheart. Papa's got a brand new bag!

5. We cut ties completely, apart from where it involves picking up the children or circumstances which need our mutual input (e.g schooling decisions).

 

 

Cue instant 'can't breathe' panic attack and hysterical crying about what a b*****d I was, until she realised that I didn't thin kshe was dying after all. So with that, she shot upstairs.

 

She came down about 15 minutes later, saying that she was looking to stay with her mother for the night. She then complains that my actions are so angry and unreasonable, and that this is not helping the children. She also said that by me kicking her out, she'll be forced into living in a council house with the children (e.g, generally poor housing provided by the local government). Basically, she's trying everything to make me see that my actions are harming the children.

 

I could retort that her sudden decision without any intention of talks or attempts at resolution are not considering the children, but what's the damn point.

 

She's upstairs right now, wailing to mother. It's officially World War III in here. Hatred spewing everywhere. I'm just keeping calm and playing with the children.

 

Watch this space. I'm sure she'll pull something out of the bag to try an influence the situation to her advantage.

 

Am I being unfair though? Why should I be dragged about by her? Last time I got messed around, I couldn't get angry and struggled to move on. Now i'm angry, I want her a** gone. I won't apologise for feeling like this, I need to!

[worldgonewrong]

Make sure the kids aren't being thrown into the maelstrom, though.

Maybe take them out for ice cream or something.

They don't need to witness mom's meltdown.

[Gunny376]

I only gave my story a couple of days ago. In short, she doesn't love me anymore, she wants out, but she wants me to be complicit in looking after the children etc whilst she carries on her part-time job. That also means living under the same roof etc and me scurrying around to her demands.

 

No no no! Don't think so b****face! As she served dinner this evening, once again with smarmy, self assured, controlling swagger about how everything would be, I shot her down so hard you could hear the screams over the other side of the Atlantic.

 

1. No, I won't work around your job.

2. Yes, I'll be involved with the kids in every way I can, but it won't be on your terms and it won't be organised according to your needs.

3. You want out? Then get the f*** out. I'm not going anywhere, this is my home and I've done nothing to deserve being turfed out.

4. Remember that person you had wrapped round your finger when you went off the rails four years ago? He's gone sweetheart. Papa's got a brand new bag!

5. We cut ties completely, apart from where it involves picking up the children or circumstances which need our mutual input (e.g schooling decisions).

 

 

Cue instant 'can't breathe' panic attack and hysterical crying about what a b*****d I was, until she realised that I didn't think she was dying after all. So with that, she shot upstairs.

 

She came down about 15 minutes later, saying that she was looking to stay with her mother for the night. She then complains that my actions are so angry and unreasonable, and that this is not helping the children. She also said that by me kicking her out, she'll be forced into living in a council house with the children (e.g, generally poor housing provided by the local government). Basically, she's trying everything to make me see that my actions are harming the children.

 

I could retort that her sudden decision without any intention of talks or attempts at resolution are not considering the children, but what's the damn point.

 

She's upstairs right now, wailing to mother. It's officially World War III in here. Hatred spewing everywhere. I'm just keeping calm and playing with the children.

 

Watch this space. I'm sure she'll pull something out of the bag to try an influence the situation to her advantage.

 

Am I being unfair though? Why should I be dragged about by her? Last time I got messed around, I couldn't get angry and struggled to move on. Now i'm angry, I want her a** gone. I won't apologise for feeling like this, I need to!

 

Nothing but Tough Love Baby! Nothing but Tough Love! :mad:

 

Reality? What a concept!

 

Shoot for high orbit, and then you can always settle for a lower one on your terms, not hers. She wants out? Then she can pack her happy azz out. Where she lands and ends up is HER problem not yours.

 

Don't let her "For the children,.............." card on your azz. What or who's to say that the children can't and won't be better off with you providing a stable home and home environment than she?

 

What makes her the better parent? Just because she's got a vagina? I don't think so.

 

She's the one that's breaking up the family because she's "just not feeling it" anymore and has GIGS syndrome. She sounds as though she's living in a fantasy world with a population of #1.

[Porridge]

Thanks Gunny, it's nice to hear support from you as you were also giving advice back in early 2010 and I took a lot of that on board.

 

I know I sound angry, almost crazy at the moment, but this woman destroyed me three years ago. I lost 30 lbs in weight, kept getting infections, generally unwell, depressed, no light at the end of the tunnel, I had gone from likeable, social guy to complete recluse.

 

I won't let someone do this to me again. If anger has to feed my fight, then so be it. I won't let her send me into a 140 lb skeleton again, whilst she swans from man to man and looks down on me like the s**t on the end of her shoe.

 

It's my time now. It's time to show that i've grown stronger, I value myself, i've proud of what I am, who I am, what I stand for and what i'm achieving. There's a better life out there and this woman is history.

 

Thanks again for the support. It really helps!

[Sittinginmcds]

You are doing the 99.999% right thing. Why not 100%? Cause she made you think she will be taking the kids out if your home and live with her in some public housing. Why? Why can't they live with you? Too often fathers wind up becoming visitors in the lives of their children. It may have cost me $10's of thousands in lawyer bills but my girls live with me and see their mother 2x's a year. I didn't tell her to move 1,200 miles away.

That my friend is your only mistake. Aside from that I have learned each one is pretty smells nice and keeps you warm at night. Cut her free.

[PoopHappens]

Porridge, Some like it hot, some like it cold, some like it in the pot nine days old. I think in this case the hot variety suits the situation.

[Gunny376]

In this suggested link? http://shine.yahoo.com/love-sex/5-realistic-reasons-why-women-cheat-212700926.html Its not the article that I'm so much referring you to as it is the comments that follow. (The article itself is all so much BS in my opinion? If it looks like BS, smell like BS, it must be BS!)

 

And I don't give a damn how much sugar you put on it and try and call it a brownie!

 

There VERY much life after divorce. I particularly enjoyed the WWW that once they divorced their DH, either wanted them back, or if they didn't want them back didn't want anyone else to have them!

[Yasuandio]

I totally relate to how you turned into a recluse. Same happen to me living in an abusive situation. I am a beautiful, people oriented woman - and allowed that little bald head Natzi drive me into suclusion, destoy my self esteem, and ruin my health. I have been a recluse for over ten years!

 

It is over. No matter the pain of divorce, even a protracted, hidiously expensive divorce, it is evident - when he got off the premises, I immediately began to look and feel a heck of a lot better, in everyway (except for the pain, fear and confusion caused by any loss).

 

My now deceased Mother was espesially thilled and she told me a few years back, she had prayed over and over that I would take off the extra pounds. I didn't diet, or anything. I just stopped stress eating, and made the foods that I liked. Instead of pouring two cups of olive oil in every dish to suit him.

 

It has not been easy - and good or bad, lossing a companion of 33 years and a 27 year marriage is like having a limb ripped off. But I am better not - I see light at end of tunnel - after the four years it took to finially get to trial.

 

You are doing great! No means no now in your life. She cannot jack you around with her emotional breakdowns. Let her ccheck into a psych ward if the panic disorder is so bad. In fact, if she is so prone to such a problematic psychiatric disorder - how can she ever be left in charge of the children? Don't you think that is a fair question?

 

I can see your attorney quizzing her:

 

Ms. Wife you stated in your deposition the following did you not: "oh, how bad it is these panic attacks. Oh, how bad the syptoms, and this and that. And oh, there is no way to drive when you lose control over your body like this. And oh, you cannot breathe."

 

Then Wife: Yes, it is terrible. He caused it! (right)

 

Then attorney can ask, well, "Ms. Wife, what would happen if you lost control and had an attack while you were cooking on the gas stove? Could a fire happen? Is that possible? Oh, dear, what would happen if the kids were there?

 

Attoney could also inquire: Ms. Wife, what is the reason you have not sought medical attention for your condition?

 

Listen man, (fantasy courtroom aside), if she is pulling this kind of BS, I recommend you tape record her - having one, while you are trying to call 911. If it is a real condition - it is a real problem, for real. If it is not a real condition, it is a BIG problem in court for her if you can prove it.

 

I have panic disorder for real. My former husband thought it was fake. The last time ambulance took me in, I ended up in cardiac ward for a week (my BP was off the map). And it was seriously scary. I have to take a load of medicine to control the panic disorder - and I so don't like these drugs. Therefore, when I see it is possible, someone is manipulating another with this condition, it really pushes my buttons. On the other hand, if she really has it - then she needs medical attention - cause you never know when it can happen if you are prone to them - especially under stress.

 

 

 

That is my take right now. Hope it helps. Yas

[Porridge]

Think i'll just use this thread as a diary. It'll give me something to look back on.

 

Early morning - Frosty to say the least after yesterday's fall out. We barely spoke but I took the kids to school and she went off to do her three hours of work.

 

Lunchtime - I had gone out to get a tail light fixed on my car. She'd obviously got home and realised that I wasn't in, so immediately started ringing. I didn't answer. She rang again. I didn't answer. She then SMS me saying she needs to speak and it's important. Ten minutes later I call her. She asks who is picking the children up from school. This is not important considering the children weren't due to be picked up for three hours. This was her starting her drama c**p again.

 

2pm - Got home and she came in about 30 minutes later. We spoke, she got angry. YesterdayI told her that if she wants out then she can leave. She says that pushing her out will push the children out as they'll be staying with her, and i'm clearly not putting them first. I reply that her cold, sudden decision without any attempt to discuss or resolve was hardly thinking of the children, considering they're about to find themselves in a broken home. She then gets upset and says she's getting advice on finding new accommodation tomorrow. I don't believe that'll be her agenda at all, she'll in fact try and scheme it so i'm the one pushed out. Don't see how that'll work though, the lease is in my name.

 

3pm - She lets out some odd rants. The telling one was that for the past few months i had "cared about the kids, and had cared about myself by going to the gym and concentrating on the business, but I hadn't cared about her". She then said that made her look pathetic and needy but she felt ignored and undervalued. I told her she should have said something a long time ago but that my actions are nothing to do with locing or respecting her. I work out because it gives me fulfillment. I worked on the business because it's a dream which she supported up to a point. Suddenly, she's done because it wasn't about her anymore? She didn't make any effort to resolve this in the slightest. She didn't even speak to me about it!

 

4pm - Kids are home from school. More wailing about how the washing machine, tv, cooker, tunble drier are all installed here and that it would be a logistical nightmate uprooting everything when I could just go. I held my ground. I left before and was all over the place. I won't let her do it to me again.

 

9pm - She talks a little about work and things are slightly friendlier. She goes to bed though without saying goodnight or anything. On TV is a "24 hours in A&E" documentary. One lad speaks of his grandmother who sadly passes away. He explains that his family are hard working, that his mother and father work together in Chinatown, and that's how he got close to his grandmother. That struck a chord with me though - couples working together for the common goal. Loving, supporting, that's what a relationship is about. Not throwing your toys our of the cradle when you think that the attention isn't all on you anymore.

 

I look at her and realise we're so so different. I want to achieve things. I want to say i've tried, even if i fail. I want to meet people, build social circles, gain wisdom and respect of others. I want to be a role model for my children. I want a partner who will stand by my side, as I will her. I want my partner to have a passion - it doesn't matter if it's world peace or knitting a baby hat, just to have a purpose. I just don't see it in the wife, she wants people to take care of her and bring her happiness, refusing to do anything for herself.

 

Meant to be up at 5:20am so best off to bed. If you read this, thank you and I hope it didn't bore you too much.

 

Love and peace to all x

[Porridge]

Oh it's all coming out now........

 

When we were on the verge of reconciling last time, she went away to apparently collect things from OM's house. He lived about 100 miles away and she got the train, but ended up staying for two nights, blaming public transport issues (I know I sound a mug here, no need to rub it in!).

 

When she came back, that was it and she was apparently 100% committed to restoring our marriage. We slept together but I used protection at this time.

 

Six weeks later, she falls ill, has tests, and is confirmed pregnant. She naturally becomes emotional about it all. At the scan, the doctors date the conception to the same time she went to OM's (although the days can be two or three days out). I informed her that I would respect her wishes and that this was her decision, but I could not be 100% supportive behind a pregnancy where I doubted the baby was mine.

 

She swore on her life that she never slept with OM and that the child was mine without question. She has a history of lying though and no matter what she said, I just couldn't commit myself to something that I wasn't convinced by.

 

She then came to a decision that saving our marriage and giving a family environment to our children was most important. Without my prompting, she had the pregnancy terminated. The timing was just awful and she'd already had two most natal breakdowns from our current children, so knew that this would likely cause more problems.

 

I know how attached a mother becomes to a baby and I know that this decision crippled her. She went through it with a stone-like attitude, almost like a having a filling at the dentist. I awaited the fall-out but it never came.

 

Now, over three years later, this mental scar has come out. Whilst listing off the "you care about yourself and the kids but don't give anything to me" speech, she then said that she has always despised me deep down and blames me for having the abortion. She claims that I was insensitive, but to the contrary, when someone tries to shut something out of their mind, i'm hardly going to keep trying to bring it up and discuss it with her. It was HER desire to bury it under the sand and not talk of it.

 

So yes, i'm to blame for her having the termination. She's also becoming convinced that i'm about to throw lawyers onto her and make her life hell in getting custody of the children. It's like she's trying to build me up as this picture of evil.

 

She then simulates how she supposedly feels 'Oh here I am, little me, with an opinion and feelings.........and there's you (meaning me, she then stamps her foot down, illustrating that i'm stomping on her like a bug) STAMP, shut up you pathetic woman' etc etc.

 

So this is where it is. I'm evil, heartless, insensitive, don't care for her, haven't given her enough attention etc etc.

 

My response? Well yes, there are things I could do better and I have many faults. However, i'm realising that she has always relied on me to make her happy rather than herself. Hence now that i've found something that inspires me, she feels pushed away.

 

Not sure how that brings up all the history to boot, but it seems that everything is a cause now - the past, the present......well at least I can make decisions for the future.....

[Gunny376]

I want a partner who will stand by my side, as I will her. I want my partner to have a passion - it doesn't matter if it's world peace or knitting a baby hat, just to have a purpose. I just don't see it in the wife, she wants people to take care of her and bring her happiness, refusing to do anything for herself.

 

Sorry? Mrs Gunny is already taken and its going to take a 'killin', a preacher, and a mop & bucket ~ (to say tha' last rites and clean up from the killin) to get her away from me!

[Gunny376]

This was all her choice. She should have thought out the basics of her intentions before committing herself to the first affair, and now this break up.

 

Why is she whining about appliances? Do they not come with the house or does she intend to leave you without the means to clean and make the house less desirable on the market without it all?

 

As for her council housing, well..go for shared custody. Tell her in council housing the children will still have their own rooms, and besides they would only be there half the time anyhow.

 

Why is it women always assume the children stay with them?

 

I did shared. We worked amicably around each others schedules and the childrens schedules to arrange half and half, and stay within a 15 minute walking distance of each other so the children never are far, and in emergencies one of us is bound to be around. The children deserve both parents and both parents deserve the right to be in the children's lives. Not only this, but I find this way neither of us can blame each other for leaving the other as the sole parent, with the weight of all the parenting pushed on one. We are equally responsible. Plus neither of us are over burdened. We each see our youngest daughter 6-7 days a week. Which means at a minimum only one day we don't see her. Even though I have her 4 nights one week and 3 nights the next, I have her every day after school even on his days. He picks her up when he is finished work. So I have her 3 hours even when it's not my overnight day. My children have bedrooms in each house, we don't care about who's clothes were bought by whom as the clothes come and go from each of our houses as the children wear them.

 

Ok enough of my tirade about shared custody. I find it ridiculous when women simply assume the children are there's when there are much better options available for the children.

 

Whatever you do, do not leave the home. She can call that abandonment. Contact a lawyer as everyone said. Look at your options. Do not give up on anything. She wants to make it on her own...let her. Make her find her own way.

 

aaaaahhhhh! ↑↑↑↑ The above post brings out in me one of my favorite all time Gunny 'Sayings" which I repeatedly say time and time again!

 

"Let's let 'common sense prevail!"

[Yasuandio]

 

"When she came back, that was it and she was apparently 100% committed to restoring our marriage. We slept together but I used protection at this time....

 

Six weeks later, she falls ill, has tests, and is confirmed pregnant. She naturally becomes emotional about it all. At the scan, the doctors date the conception to the same time she went to OM's (although the days can be two or three days out). I informed her that I would respect her wishes and that this was her decision, but I could not be 100% supportive behind a pregnancy where I doubted the baby was mine....

 

She swore on her life that she never slept with OM and that the child was mine without question. She has a history of lying though and no matter what she said, I just couldn't commit myself to something that I wasn't convinced by....

 

She then came to a decision that saving our marriage and giving a family environment to our children was most important. Without my prompting, she had the pregnancy terminated.

 

So yes, i'm to blame for her having the termination.....

 

(I DON'T AGREE WITH ABOVE AT ALL. What man "really" wants to raise his wife's illigitimate spawn created during their own darn marriage? Please. Of course, many wonderful men - when push comes to shove, will consider it, and learn to live and love the child, but who in their right mind is going to initially be "ok" or welcome this situation?).

 

It's like she's trying to build me up as this picture of evil."

 

 

People having extramarital affairs should try not to get knocked up with illigitimate babies they do not wish to bear. How sad. And, how dumb your wife seems. Sorry to say that, man.

 

I think you would be well-advised to tape record these discussions, especially the FACTS on this issue. If a Judge heard evidence of that story, what kind of Mother would she look like in his/her eyes? HER conduct was so bloody wreckless, heartless, and pathetic dude. Yas

Edited May 24, 2013 by Yasuandio

[Porridge]

Thanks to everyone for the advice and support. I really do take it all on board and it helps to feel that people are supporting me through this.

 

Latest update and some more 'unearthings':

 

1. She's apparently going to the housing benefit office today to enquire about being provided a new home. I still have serious doubt whether that'll be the line of her enquiry. I believe her intention will be to push me out with a court order, citing that she is primary carer of the children. That all said, everybody will advise her to try and reach an amicable agreement, so I see a lot of tension and frustrating coming out in the near future.

 

2. She's going out to clubs tonight with her friend. It has been planned for ages and her friend is relatively level headed, although she does spend all her time moaning about her own spouse. Part of me wants the wife to just wrap her legs round someone else, purely so it makes it easier to emotionally distance myself from her. You know when you can sense the pain that's coming? I don't need a drum roll or a countdown - I just want it straight in the face now so I can start dealing with it.

 

3. Found last night that she has a secret paypal account and has been obtaining loans through false identifications (since early 2012). It's nothing massive, about the equivalent of $2,500, but she obtains the cash in the paypal account then transfers it to her main account bit by bit. She had always had issues with money and debt but she had made a conscious choice to acknowledge it and deal with it before. I honestly feel it's a sickness, like a gambling addiction or something. I think the spending is mainly on new clothes and stuff.

 

 

I lied in bed this morning and pondered on two questions:

 

1. If someone has completely fallen out of love with you, then shouldn't they be indifferent? By that, I mean that if she truly had no feelings at all, then I don't see why she would become emotionally charged about certain things. I'm mainly referring to the "you love the kids and you spend time on yourself but forgot about me" rant which resulted in tears. I'm not even sure if that's a genuine reason, it might not be. But if I was moved on from someone, I don't think i'd be crying about it anymore.

 

2. This woman has problems. She has a secret life that she keeps from everybody and incredibly, can act a voice of rationality and reason in condeming such acts. Example - our neighbours also divorced recently and the wife was found to have obtained £20,000 in finance secretly. My wife was quick to say how awful and dishonest such behaviour was, yet at the same time she's secretly doing the same (albeit on a smaller scale)?

Anyway, deep down she has so many issues and i'm not sure she'll ever be happy. Those who've said about GIGS syndrome are probably right - her world darkens around her and she blames the environment, the lack of spark, the lack of commitment to her. But wherever she goes, she'll never escape herself and therein is the true source of discontent. She'll spend the rest of her life looking to others for the solution, always refusing to deal with the root cause. But that's ok, at least I have an exit.....

[Porridge]

Strange how the wife’s mind works……

 

 

Last night she went out for drinks with a friend (and yes, I know this to be the case). Whilst out, they bumped into an old crowd of people who used to be friends but contact had been lost over time. They clearly had a great time catching up. Pics are on FB this morning (I’ve blocked the wife but I saw them on other profiles). The wife had to add a comment about some member of a music band flattering her. Really don’t know why that was needed but hey-ho.

 

 

She came home steaming drunk at 2am and was straight up to bed. This morning she came downstairs with severe hangover and constantly talked about what a fantastic time she had.

 

 

After a little while, she asks ‘how I am and whether I’m coping ok with everything’. Perhaps this is meant to be considerate but it really p**ses me off. It’s like she’s the one in control and she feels she has a power over me – like she wants me to burst into tears so she can take pity.

 

 

I told her I was fine and that I’m very optimistic. I explained that I wanted to rediscover passions that I’d lost over the years and saw this as a great opportunity to blossom. She kind of agreed and seemed to be supportive, but then became emotional. She said that even though it’s over, she still finds it sad and wants to stay as friends.

 

 

I replied that with the greatest of respect, friendship was not an option. I explained that I needed to get myself to a place where I was indifferent to her – where I looked at her in a similar way to the next door neighbour. She seemed taken aback by this and got more upset, saying I was being unnecessarily cruel. I told her that my intentions weren’t to be cruel, but to completely let her go and not be the safety net that she depended on last time we separated.

 

 

I also explained that I’d be grateful if she stopped visiting my mother. They are good friends and I do feel sorry that this will be difficult, but my mother is already supporting me and understands the issues my wife faces. Separation is separation, I don’t want her staying tied to my family.

 

 

Wife then started breaking down, saying she is scared about moving out and not knowing what lies ahead. I end up comforting her to let her know that things will be fine. She continues being upset though and becomes very open and friendly.

 

 

At this point I made, with the greatest of intentions, perhaps a massive mistake. I said to her, “right, this is how I stand. If you are willing to accept professional counselling with me and to discuss our issues at length, so that rather than just sweeping them under the carpet for a couple of years at a time, they are actually aired and dealt with, and you find a determination to repair the relationship, then I will be 100% behind that and work with you. But I will not just resume the relationship without help as it is as it’s not addressing any of the deep scars that are clearly causing much of this feeling.”

 

 

I told her that I had no more to say and that I’d leave it with her. She replied, “I don’t deal with problems well, it’s not in my nature”. And to be honest, that’s a very accurate description of herself – she is natural runner, not a fighter. She then asks “and if my answer is no, what happens then?” So I replied, “then we go our separate ways with minimal contact as planned”.

 

 

I say that this talk was a mistake as it seemed to give her a new lease of life. We went to the shops and stopped in a restaurant for lunch. Suddenly, the stone cold persona was evident – she had an almost arrogant and dismissive attitude and was also being slightly flirtatious with passing men. She was also playing with her hair a lot, like she really thought a lot of herself. It was bizarre.

 

 

At this point, I suddenly heard alarm bells ringing in my head. This is precisely the attitude she developed when she went completely off the rails last time. Is she about to start sleeping around? Very possibly, it won’t surprise me at all. Why will she do this? Because she has no inner confidence to cope, so she throws herself upon someone else, making them out to be the white knight that saved and protected them.

 

 

I then realised that even discussing a reconciliation (despite it being on strict terms) was silly. Her behaviour last time continued for months because I was consistently there to pick up the pieces. This cannot happen again and I don’t want to be around while she self-destructs. My kids and I are all that matters.

 

 

What will happen next? I think she’s on the verge of acting recklessly again and it’s something that it going to just come out. She can’t control it. Much of her family have mental illnesses including alcoholism, depression, schizophrenia, and it is believed in my wife’s case, Histrionic Personality Disorder. I guess that’s why I was so forgiving of her behaviour in the past but now? I’ve lived this life for nine years and can’t just keep turning a blind eye to her secrets and unpredictability. After doing some silly things, she’ll probably seek me as that security blanket but I do not want to be there this time.

 

 

It’s going to be tough but the fight in me is fast diminishing. Stop this train, I need to get off. And please, please, please, make it as least painful as possible.

[Porridge]

Another schoolboy error last night. I could keep it quiet but if i'm announcing the good, then I also need to hold my hand up when I screw up.

 

Wife went to her parents for the day. My father invited me and the kids to meet up with him for a day out. We did and it was fantastic.

 

Got home at 5pm. Wife was being stroppy and difficult. After some serious huffing and puffing she erupted, saying that she had plans for dinner and that i'd ruined it by bringing them back so late. This is because I estimated we'd be around 3 hours when in fact we were nearer 5 hours out.

 

She then went mad about me blocking her on FB (all part of the 180 like process for me), saying that I was sharing photos of the children which everyone could see but their own mother. I only actually posted one photo but

 

About an hour later, she created a new Facebook profile with her maiden name and declares that it's a "fresh start with her real name" etc. I frowned upon the profile picture she used which was from around five years ago and looks a little angry. That earned me another ear bashing so I just left it and said it's up to her what she does. I don't really understand when people try to make statements on Facebook.

 

In general, she's struggling to accept that she's not involved in things with my side of the family. She's now making taking rather dramatic actions, mostly for attention or to make some kind of bold statement but in truth, I feel that it makes her look a little desperate and 'unhinged'.

 

It's bank holiday here and so it was planned to have a few relaxing drinks and watch some tv. Both of us drunk a fair amount and over time we actually started becoming light hearted and having a laugh again.

 

Now here's the schoolboy error. It got to around midnight, I was quite drunk by this stage, then she asked some jokey question about whether I fancied her in her old fashioned night gown. She then went upstairs and in my drunken state, I followed her and tried to get in bed with her. It wasn't love that was driving this, it was just an alcohol induced desire for raw sex, but regardless of that it was damn stupid and now I really, really regret it.

 

She turned me away and told me she wanted to sleep. Thank God she did, but I am really struggling to look at myself in the mirror this morning.

 

Not sure now whether to apologise for coming on to her or not even mention it. Ultimately, I just want her to know that it wasn't an indication of my feelings but was just acting on a habit which we'd had for years whilst under the influence of alcohol.

 

And that's the last time I drink alcohol in her company.

[Simpleoldschool]

Porridge, if i couldt say something.

 

it seems right now you are of the mentality, avoiding getting hurt and sticking to the guns. FROM your perspective, it seems the safest distance.

 

I looked over certain things in detail. one of the posts established a general thought in my mind.

 

here are two scenarios i want you to consider from expierience with this women.

 

SCENARIO ONE:

 

first the night gown walts, we will call it seems to be apparently tied to a form of sexual compromise. one she will not share with you. having discussed earlier in a post that she was afraid of what lies ahead, you comforted her (which a man should a women) but i think this gave her a strong sense that if she gets weepy enough and makes an appeal to your inner-sensitivity she can gain an adnatage in ways of your support.

 

that was cut quickly, by your response that if she says no to marital couenseling then everything gos as planned. that is what i beilieve here but SINCE IT IS SPECULATION it is leaving out critical elements on the truth of this matter.

 

since you stood by your statement unless she was willing to continue in a manner healthy for the relationship, she would have to give up certain perceptions of herself and take on new ones. the first being, wife and to a higher effect someone who isnt a trouble-maker.

 

SCENARIO 2

 

within the highlights of scenario one i dont beilieve this is the case.

 

she could still have feelings for you, but certain feelings are winning out and over rideing the feelings she has for you. however i beilieve it was a test to still see if she has power over you sexually. a means to control. it was tested and then you were denied as it was not her intent to engage you sexual.

 

end scenarios.

 

to be honest, either way. You are dealing dangerously, and when your dealing dangerous your playing with your head on the table and assuming risk. To be honest, she "PLAYED" nice with you and the festivities alongside of your family. if i know a father he wanted it to be a time where you both realize a sense of respect, for him and behave and bond and talk about issues, later at the house.

 

to be honest my friend, she sounds like shes planning to do something but in honesty. do not get angry, unless she and the kids arent around. best way to reduce stress. think of it this way, yelling at a brick wall really is yelling at a brick wall. i know you feel like you have things to say to maintain the dignity you have for yourself but since she doesnt dignify what your saying it isnt a mutual expierience.

 

to be honest you said you were seperated before. i dont think shes a natural runner but she knows she can get away with certain things and you will take her back. the change here for her which is her dillemma, i beilieve is that this time it doesnt seem to be working so shes testing the length of the "push and pull" method. where can she push and where can she pull. shes scared of losing alot in this situation so when shes being nice, understand this. shes PLAYING NICE. while holding the switch.

 

in order for you to even break through this she needs to be in a state of humility.

 

now to be very, very honest. nothing need be verbose. If you did sleep with your wife, in your mind that would have put you at ease and un-leveled you to a point where she could manipulate you.

 

as far as the kids are concerned, she doesnt sound motherly but are using them as guilt pieces. tiny guilt pieces and asessing that you arent normal if you dont think about the kids. to venture into an area of thought if she was critically concerned with the kids, the relationship you two share in common with them and maintaining a healthy home. its good you care about your kids. good job. however i dont think she cares as much about them as you THINK. and the whole, your making me this way is non-sense. if she claims that she might aswell claim that she has a right to do XYZ because XYZ did it and made her mad.

 

she doesnt seem in control of her feelings that for sure. shes scared that if she leaves you she leaves her support line. she has to jimmy up and find a man with equal or more income and then my friend, if i am speculating correctly you are history and expect her to demand alimony, child care and child support in the 70% range regarding child care and support.

 

i had to deal with back-handed comments. dont you care about the child. Of course, but not your attitude and how your using him. it would be hilarious. wed be in the room and and she would tell me she doesnt want to argue infront of the child while he was in his. then she proceeded to his room and then yelled it. thinking back i was the dubass for following her around the house. trying to talk sense. it only enflamed that she was the one in control, emotionally of the situation despite how emotionally crazy she was.

 

whatever you do, play this game. its called the WAITING GAME!

 

ignore her, COMPLETELY and figure out what you want to do. dont dignify do not talk do not even so much as look at her. trust me her ego will go away and then, thats where you call her out on her crap. when her ego isnt blasting through the good sense you speak. when a women is mad for whatever reason, she cant even hear what your saying no matter how much sense it makes. as an example if shes mad at you and you tell her jumping off the cliff would kill her the retort would be, DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO *jump* even though you only described the result of a choice made that would be of diservice if she made it.

 

to be completelty honest, i am not saying divorce this women. heres why.

 

because she is emotionally struggling. she is identifying reasons not to love you. its a catch 22 if you do something considered wrong by way of her, you get one ding in the box. if you dont do anything you get 4 dings. but later in the later she comes to her senses, atleast most do.

 

i think, it would be best to completely IGNORE HER and cook by yourself. seem so self involved her self-esteem starts wayning. thats when my friend, you can level-mindedly talk to her. if you get mad though and spark up a fight. then chances are you dont get a second go around.

[Simpleoldschool]

Ill make a post of how resentment works.

 

First you need to understand if you share any responsibility in your wifes resetnement.

 

even if you dont, getting angry further frustrates and nurtures the resentment that is unfounded or founded.

 

First people beilieve you have intentionally wronged them and their well being. since we as men dont understand women, the hardest part is to search out what we could have done wrong.

 

I think it would be best in this situation to be non-judgemental and approach your wife in this way.

 

first you want to identify with her feelings. this is taking the higher road even if you havent done anything wrong.

 

now you may feel like you dont want to justify further bad behaviour, but if you invest enough emotion towards her feeling it is of a sound mind that the resentment whether founded or unfounded will discipate and then, you can do some real talking.

 

first realize resentment leads to nowhere street. its alot of time wasted on NOT correcting the problem. sfirst you need to let go of yours and the fact she left you one time before.

 

i would approach it this way. you have gotten over the feeling that she left you the first time and that it hurt you, because you care ( this is a test of her own feelings towards you and how she responds.)

 

if she seems to be enjoying it disregard your initial thoughts. you truely have no idea whats going on. You can be the better person or the involved combatant. if you both fight you both lose.

 

tell her that it bothers you that she left and you lost trust. trust that you had hoped you would have for her. then if shes getting upset tell her you love her to throw a mental switch in her mind that will immediately confuse her. she will most likely become uncomfortable BUT DONT STOP TALKING SO YOU CAN BE HEARD OR SHE WILL INTERJECT WITH BS LIKE SHE DOESNT LOVE YOU ETC ETC. continue talking and start identifying with her. tell her that you are concerned about your relationship. this is not weakness this is strength tell her you understand that something is bothering her enough that she wants to leave and as much as you would like to think back on your entire relationship to pinpoint it by yourself is impossible. tell her you are sorry ( the bigger person realizes that they say sorry to keep peacefull relations or to open up a bridge to forgiveness) that she has been hurting for some time and you want to take responsibility for the negative emotions she has. you tell her that you dont want her to be hurt scared or wind up making bad decisions but yoo understand she can make any decisions she wants. no one wants to make a bad decision, she knows it you know it by implementing her ability to make any choice she wants to you play of reverse psychology. she can make the decisions she wants now but since she doesnt want to make bad decisions she wont, reasonably atleast.

 

marital fights usually consist of resentment of a fact or misunderstanding and the other person is trying to get their way out of the situation. they fight for what they beilieve has been lost.

 

obviously your wife beilieves she cant be her own person. key in on that and ask her why she feels that way and then listen.

 

She will want to talk about that and dont get mad. mad leads to nowhere. if you get her talking you make her comfortable she forms a state of trust and you make corrections. the man always has to be the one to pull the weight first. then you talk to her about your complaints but not in a way that marginilize her. before you do that you want to work through her resentment while you do your own. you have to work on yours BY YOURSELF and that is fair because women cant and dont handle it in the same way. they need someones help and they need to be listened to.

 

in a relationship it works like this. the less you listen to a women the more she gets angry and withdraws her feelings inside of herself until she cant deal with it.

 

she will either

 

a. yel at you which however backwards this sounds in her mind she is telling you and showing you how frustrated she is. the only thing she wants to know when she starts yelling is you care to listen. most of the time saying sorry and holding her helps after she has blown her stack.

 

b. CUTT YOU OFF EMOTIONALLY.

 

resentment is action taken to reclaim someones position of authority or personhood.. regardless you have to talk to her about whats bothering her. as a man you can deal with more so you dont pay attention to most of the things that would bother her. you cant and you wont but when your wifes mad its best to isten and let her vent and simply, just agree. later she will be nice.

 

before you start this conversation i would ask of you to do something to the extent just for her. start a bath. candlelight music, whatever. flowers. something.

 

it will at the very least open up a line of communication. communication isnt yelling and screaming. its listening more, speaking less and acting on what youve heard.

 

I dont think your wife is a bad person, i just think shes a woman.

 

also remember this. feelings are just feelings. they dont exist in reality they exist specifically to the person who is feeling them. if you were pissed you would want someone to listen. thats where you two BOTH are making an error. making lines of communication outside the relationship to verbally annihilate eachother. that festers the resentment and it grows and then you develope different relationships. the marital relationship is one of commitment because thats what it takes. one cant last without that. on either end.

 

i really think you need to be the bigger person and show the road by walking it.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Simpleoldschool

[Simpleoldschool]

being with a woman takes real mental gymnastics.

 

But its worth it. dont get lazy and take her for granted and i know you want to say shes a bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb, but it wont help. then youll go into the next relationship maintaining the same mentality and then its a vicious cycle.

 

whether she leaves or stays if you do the right thing you wont walk the wrong road. atleast if you try you know where it got you. if you force something you do know where it gets you. atleast you have chance when it comes to one and no chance when it comes to the other.

 

you have to become the person to listen, NOT HER MOM or thats seriously bad joo joo.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Simpleoldschool

[Simpleoldschool]

Porridge, i really want you to try something.

 

if you LISTEN to my adivce. you wont have to be angry with your wife because she wont be PISSING YOU OFF. IF womens mad, and shes getting you mad what shes really trying to do is talk to you. IT COMES OUT IN EMOTION BECAUSE WOMEN ARE EMOTIONAL@! she speaks emotionally you speak logically! if shes yelling SHES HURTING! she wants you to MAKE IT BETTER BY

 

A. LISTENING TO WHAT SHES SAYING

B. HAVE AN AREA AND PLACE WHERE SHE CANT VENT TO HER HUSBAND WITHOUT TAKING HER HEAD OFF SO SHE CAN FEEL BETTER

 

read that again, please.

 

Try the flower approach, im assuming you know her favorites.

 

SHE PROBABLY WILL SAY ONE THING WHILE FEELING ANOTHER. WHAT YOU DONT SEE IS WHAT SHES THINKING.

 

first she will tell you it wont work sorry etc etc etc let her come out with anything. get her a bath ready and tell her its there if she wants it. help her relax. atleast if shes relaxed shes thinking in a positive way. your changing the course by not participating in the battle.

 

If she gets mad let her get mad. let her feel like she has an area to say everything and anything. by listening you might actually hear some things.

 

some things that make you mad but might help you and her. dont discount what your wife says. in actuality your discounting her feelings, right or wrong who cares as long as your getting ALONG. if your mad dont show a hint of it. know what you do will pay off.

 

let her get it allllll out. because then its OUT and not IN. for everything she gets out if you yell and scream you are replacing angry feelings with the ones that are gone. you are working in REVERSE!

 

Most likely just say you wanted to do something nice for her. dont apologize or anything. tell her you wanted her to enjoy something. after shes done yelling and screaming two things will happen. just walk up and go to your room after she is DONE going nutts on you.and after you are done saying you JUST wanted to do something NICE for HER. makes her feel SPEICIAL!

 

tell her that you are sorry she is hurting after shes mad.

 

and then go to your room.

 

these are the things that will likely happen.

 

A. after you have spent your time in the room she will probably be smelling the flowers taking a bath doing woman shhhiiii. laughing whatever. let her enjoy it and since the bad feelings are gone and she is enjoying herself guess what she will want more enjoyment.

 

she will probably

 

a. knock on your door and ask to talk - LISTEN NOT TALK IN RESPONSE TO WHAT SHE HAS SAID. YOU WANT TO SEEM NON-JUDGEMENTAL. WHEN SOMEONE FEELS THEY ARENT BEING JUDGED THEY FEEL FREEEEEEEEEE.

 

b. go to her room with the flowers and think, probably SMILE because you arent bashing her skull in with a verbal axe. and then later in the night come to you. IF SHE COMES TO YOU IN THE NIGHT WANTING SEX ITS A TEST OF WHY YOU DID THIS FOR HER. IF YOU HAVE SEX WITH HER DEAL BREAKER. instead tell you care about her and right now there are things more important than sex. HER FEELINGS AND YOUR RELATIONSHIP. bro if she comes to you in the night and you say that she make TAKE sex from you or flip a mental switch on to where you judt became f****** number one on her list.

 

c. wake up in the morning wanting to talk. YOU PRETTY MUCH ARENT DOING ANYTHING AND conversely enjoying yourself while she is because of what you did. your being the bigger person she most likely will realize it. even crazy women can be nice and FALL in love.

 

you want to get the most out of this. if shes back for a second time dont blow the second chance.

 

seriously, have the lights turned off and a dinner prepared. tell her you cooked something she really likes. it wont be wasted. trust me. if she says she doesnt want it, gradually mold her down. tell her OK ill put it in the fridge if you want it later. i got etc etc started for you ( the bath)

 

and i bought you your favorite flowers. positive actions take on positive results. DONT HAVE SEX WITH HER RIGHT AWAY OR YOU WILL FLUSH IT. she will think you just wanted to sleep with her and thats why you did it.

 

you want to work your way up the ladder, bro. you want to wash off the dirt. not throw it around.

 

You CAN do this. be the nice person. no matter what shes done. SHE WILL COME TO HER OWN CONVICTION ABOUT WHAT GUILT SHE HAS ABOUT WHAT SHES DONE and will talk to you about it. if she ever does dont get angry. its better to have someone to admit their mistakes to you because they want forgiveness than to HAMMER THEM WHEN THEY COME TELL YOU.

 

when someones says sorry what they are saying is they f'ed over someone they didnt want to and whats more important to them is that the person forgive them, not what they DID.

 

you can blow this up some more or you can turn it around. your choice.

 

treat her the way you did before all of the BS. and maybe, well more likely it will get better. make her feel like a woman. IE loved and not hated. her wanting to move will change to wanting to stay.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Simpleoldschool

[Simpleoldschool]

THINK OF RESENTMENT THIS WAY IN TERMS OF WOMEN. its inside and stays inside because she cant get it out because you respond in anger so she holds onto it. so then she is always angry with you. and when she cutts you off emotionally those angry feelings stay FOREVER.

 

YOU make HER feel SPEICIAL she doesnt FEEL like being a B****

 

just remeber this. when a womens screaming, shes screaming her feelings to get your attention something is bothering her.

a man doesnt get mad, because its his best oppurtunity to score brownie points with her feelings.if you engage her positively thats what you get. a women is not propoerty.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Simpleoldschool

[CC12]

1. No, I won't work around your job.

 

Why not? You work from home, right? Flexible schedule? Do you have a good reason why can't you work with her schedule at all?

 

I mean, I know you're pissed off about her wanting to leave you, but she seems to currently have a goal for her life and a job is part of that. Every adult has to have a job to support themselves. By refusing to work with her and watch the kids while she's out of the house, you're hindering her ability to be an independent adult. You can't do that, man. Fight back against this separation in other ways if you must, but you have to allow her to do adult things, like have a job.

 

Honestly, when I read all your posts, I saw what looked like paranoia and a lot of assigning weird blame to her. Like how you said she was serving you dinner in such a "smarmy, self assured, controlling swagger." I can't even picture how someone setting down a plate in front of you could look so smarmy and self-assured that you needed to call her out on it.

 

And then this:

 

Lunchtime - I had gone out to get a tail light fixed on my car. She'd obviously got home and realised that I wasn't in, so immediately started ringing. I didn't answer. She rang again. I didn't answer. She then SMS me saying she needs to speak and it's important. Ten minutes later I call her. She asks who is picking the children up from school. This is not important considering the children weren't due to be picked up for three hours. This was her starting her drama c**p again.

 

It actually is important to know who is picking the kids up from school. It's not just her starting unnecessary drama. The kids need to be picked up. Fact. If you couldn't/wouldn't do it, then she needed to know so she could plan her day around it.

 

You frame every situation as if she's the devil and is trying to take advantage of you or get one over on you somehow. That seems paranoid, and you seem so distrustful of her that you readily think the worst of her in almost every situation. I'm not sure that's warranted. Even if it is warranted, it's not really a productive mindset.

 

You're too angry.

[Simpleoldschool]

i agree with the last post.

 

it seems like your trying to 1up the "ghosts" in this relationship man and shes all like "WTF". i dont know the entire details. her leaving you before might have taken its toll.

 

id have to read it all again, but just try being nice and doing more stuff for her to lighten her load. she can be stressed about alot of things.

 

To be honest you two just sound mad about one or the other being mad about something.

 

you just have to turn off the turbine engines on woopass street man and talk to her.

 

Anger really doesnt help anything bro. I really dont think either of you know whats going on upstairs with the other. Dont JUMP to conclusions man.

 

i really thing you are just so mad about the fact she left you before. that must hurt bro but dont make it a double whammy.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Simpleoldschool

[Porridge]

CC12 and SimpleOldSchool - I understand how you've interpreted that but you have to realise that there are some big scars from the past.

 

The wife has BPD and is prone to lapses. What's becoming increasingly obvious is that she's entering a new wave, and this inevitably drags me into the abyss as well.

 

The looks etc are not paranoia, they are very real. They are the looks of someone who is looking for reason to hate in order to justify their actions.

 

I'm finding debts everywhere, bailiffs threats etc. No bills have been paid for months, yet she has enough new clothes to fill two new wardrobes.

 

She has just created a new Facebook profile with flirtatious pictures. I know how this works as i've seen it before - she's making herself available in order to abandon the relationship and find someone else to pin her emotional needs on. This is not a sensible, rational separation.

 

The job is neither here nor there because that will be jacked in. I absolutely guarantee you that she'll leave it within the next two weeks. Probably this week.

 

Do I sound angry? Do I sound scourned? Yes I probably do, and it's because i've been through this before. Nine months after acting recklessly and selfishly, she eventually came back and explained that she'd been in a dark place. She apologised and promised that she could stop this happening again by identifying the triggers and seeking help. This hasn't happened at all, we're at stage one of the breakdown again.

 

What i'm writing is more a diary of events and it shares my emotion at the time. It isn't intended as a self-pitying exercise. I know the challenges I face, I know that she's going to use my kids as pawns once I withdraw from her, I know things are going to get extremely nasty as she tries to gain control again. At the moment i'm damn angry but it's part of the process to being indifferent to her.