Atheists can spot unbiblical teaching better than Christians

[KathyM]

A lot of the Bible is subject to interpretation. Not everyone will have the same interpretation of the same passages in the Bible. But for the primary concepts of Christianity, most Christians agree on a unified interpretation. I prefer to read the Bible myself and come to my own conclusions about what it says, although I do get a lot out of the insight and interpretations of people who have studied the Bible in depth and know what they are talking about, such as Billy Graham, Francis Chan, Rick Warren, and many Bible scholars I've had the opportunity to listen to and know. There are some false teachers out there that twist the meaning of the Bible to further their own evil agenda, just like there are atheists out there who try to twist or dissect one passage in the Bible and use that to try to discredit the entire Bible.

[M30USA]

Give up on the OP, no matter what, you are ALWAYS wrong, he is ALWAYS right, and the bible is absolute truth to him.

 

 

 

He does not accept other points of view, he does not accept non believers, and he pities us all. How very christian / tolerant.

 

I'm not always right. Scripture is always right.

[Star Gazer]

Scripture is always right.

 

Says who? A book? A book says so?

[M30USA]

Says who? A book? A book says so?

 

Says the Holy Spirit.

 

People do not read the Bible and then, as a result of critical thinking, decide its the truth. People FIRST receive the Holy Spirit, sent by God, and THEN when they read Scripture they RECOGNIZE it as truth. The order of cause and effect is reversed from human logic.

[Phoebe]

Says who? A book? A book says so?

 

napkin religion | Tumblr

[M30USA]

And just for the record, I often find myself engaging CHRISTIANS in debate equally or more than I engage in atheists. Jesus did the same. This is because earth-based and flesh-based Christianity is a carcass of the truth, not the real truth.

[TaraMaiden]

You're right. Buddhism and Christianity are the same. Identical. No difference at all. Jesus copied Buddha.

 

Glad you agree.

 

The intrinsic message is absolutely identical.

The only main difference is that when The Buddha was/asked to speculate on the existence of a higher power, he remained silent and advised that such speculation was futile.

 

Jesus on the other hand, when confronted with this 'Son of God' issue, refused to deny it.

 

The latter was "Who knows?"

The former was "Who cares?"

[M30USA]

Glad you agree.

 

The intrinsic message is absolutely identical.

The only main difference is that when The Buddha was/asked to speculate on the existence of a higher power, he remained silent and advised that such speculation was futile.

 

Jesus on the other hand, when confronted with this 'Son of God' issue, refused to deny it.

 

The latter was "Who knows?"

The former was "Who cares?"

 

Was Buddha born of a virgin, raised from the dead? Did he live a sinless life, quote and uphold the ancient Scripturea of Moses, and will he return at the right hand of God to judge the nations?

[TaraMaiden]

Was Buddha born of a virgin, raised from the dead?

No, but then again, neither was Jesus. His provenance was decided in 400AD.

Originally, Mary wasn't a 'virgin' but just a 'young maiden'. As for being raised from the dead.

Well, even my Catholic Priest opined that Christ fell into a coma....Medicine then, wasn't the same as medicine now, so it's a distinct possibility.

 

Did he live a sinless life, quote and uphold the ancient Scripturea of Moses, and will he return at the right hand of God to judge the nations?

No, because he declared himself a human being, gone beyond suffering, transcending suffering.

Pinning your hopes on a fairy-tale, is also a form of suffering.

 

But yes, he did lead a sinless life..... He devoted himself to an ascetic life, and became a monk.

That's more than Jesus did......

[Star Gazer]

Says the Holy Spirit.

 

People do not read the Bible and then, as a result of critical thinking, decide its the truth. People FIRST receive the Holy Spirit, sent by God, and THEN when they read Scripture they RECOGNIZE it as truth. The order of cause and effect is reversed from human logic.

 

I was raised Catholic. I did just that, and then rejected it.

 

Again, says who? How do you know "he" said any of this?

 

You don't. You have faith. That's it. No evidence, no proof. Just what you believe.

 

And that's no different from anyone else who holds faith or belief in things other than Christ.

[M30USA]

No, but then again, neither was Jesus. His provenance was decided in 400AD.

 

The church merely settled a theological issue of Jesus' divinity at that time. The idea of his divinity existed before 400 AD. The question was how to reconcile divinity with human-ness.

 

 

Originally, Mary wasn't a 'virgin' but just a 'young maiden'. As for being raised from the dead.

 

Even if you are correct (which is not the case), you still have to account for the fact that Scripture says Joseph wanted to divorce her, thinking she had a child with another man, yet an angel said she conceived by the Holy Spirit.

 

Well, even my Catholic Priest opined that Christ fell into a coma....Medicine then, wasn't the same as medicine now, so it's a distinct possibility.

 

Numerous things about the life of Christ are debatable. But his physical death is not one of them. No serious scholar denies this. The Roman guards were assigned the duty of assuring complete death of all their victims. They pierced his side with a spear. They also were threatened by DEATH if the body of Jesus was stolen from tomb.

 

Your priest should find another profession. This just further supports my claim that many Christian leaders do not even believe Scripture. That in itself is fine. Just don't pretend to be a believer and lead people astray.

Edited May 22, 2013 by M30USA

[pureinheart]

Before I go any further, I understand that I am using generalities, and that generalities have many exceptions. When I use the term "atheist" I am referring to a typical atheist that you would "pick up on the street"; and for the term "Christian", likewise.

 

I was speaking to my sister yesterday. She is an atheist. She made a comment to me that she hears so many teachings by famous pastors which, even in her limited atheist understanding of Christisnity, even she knows are directly contradictory to what Jesus taught.

 

It's not just my sister. I've heard several atheist posters on LS make similar comments. They've said it's not really Scripture which is their main issue, but rather what they hear pastors and professed Christians teach. And even if they entirely disagree with Scripture, it still irks them greatly how Christians distort the teachings of Jesus.

 

Why do you think this is?

 

I've seen many other faiths that actually know the Bible better than some Christians. It's easier to follow anything blindly, and take anothers concept when there has been no former research. Anyone is capable of this.

 

I thought it was interesting that a journalist interviewed random people off of the street, asking them political questions. I mean really simple questions, like who are you voting for and why. Most of the people interviewed didn't know why they were voting for "their" candidate...also I was shocked when they were asked who the VP was...quite a few said Hillary.

 

I think this is the point of frustration wth Atheists, and it's why they shake their head. I certainly did concerning the political aspect.

 

People typically are "sheep", that's why God spoke in that manor (and in fact I find it and insult to the sheep). Look at Moses sitch for instance- all of those people SAW the miracles...Moses goes on a mission from God and the people automatically assume Moses is gone for good. Ok, no leader, so let's break out the golden calves...we need something to worship.

[M30USA]

I've seen many other faiths that actually know the Bible better than some Christians. It's easier to follow anything blindly, and take anothers concept when there has been no former research. Anyone is capable of this.

 

I thought it was interesting that a journalist interviewed random people off of the street, asking them political questions. I mean really simple questions, like who are you voting for and why. Most of the people interviewed didn't know why they were voting for "their" candidate...also I was shocked when they were asked who the VP was...quite a few said Hillary.

 

I think this is the point of frustration wth Atheists, and it's why they shake their head. I certainly did concerning the political aspect.

 

People typically are "sheep", that's why God spoke in that manor (and in fact I find it and insult to the sheep). Look at Moses sitch for instance- all of those people SAW the miracles...Moses goes on a mission from God and the people automatically assume Moses is gone for good. Ok, no leader, so let's break out the golden calves...we need something to worship.

 

I so wish I could have seen Moses walking BACK from Mount Sinai for several reasons:

 

1) I wish I could have seen his glowing, radiant face which he had to physically cover with a cloth. He didn't even see God directly; but just being NEARBY was evidently enough to cause a physical change in his face. For those who think this is symbolism and didn't literally turn his have bright, read the account of Jesus' transfiguration when he literally glowed bright white in full view of disciples.

 

2) I wish I could have seen him smash the 10 commandments. It's such a human thing to do. But it was based on the deep down passion that he was PISSED the Israelites couldn't even go a few days before worshipping a pagan image.

[M30USA]

Moreover, Jesus did sin. There was no "sinless" existence for him.

 

So you are saying sin exists? Tell me about it. What does sin mean? How is it defined? Who defines it?

[TaraMaiden]

The church merely settled a theological issue of Jesus' divinity at that time. The idea of his divinity existed before 400 AD. The question was how to reconcile divinity with human-ness.

 

Even if you are correct (which is not the case), you still have to account for the fact that Scripture says Joseph wanted to divorce her, thinking she had a child with another man, yet an angel said she conceived by the Holy Spirit.

 

Numerous things about the life of Christ are debatable. But his physical death is not one of them. No serious scholar denies this. The Roman guards were assigned the duty of assuring complete death of all their victims. They pierced his side with a spear. They also were threatened by DEATH if the body of Jesus was stolen from tomb.

 

Your priest should find another profession. This just further supports my claim that many Christian leaders do not even believe Scripture. That in itself is fine. Just don't pretend to be a believer and lead people astray.

My dearest M30USA, this post is evidence,more than anything else that you are absolutely not worth engaging with on such matters.

Your transparent logic is interspersed with flights of fancy into realms of fantasy.

I could shoot your post absolutely full of holes - believe me, I could.

But I won't, for 2 reasons:

 

One, is that it would not be either kind or skilful.

The second is that you would still take further flight, and I really don't think further reference to fairy tales does you favours.

 

Bye for now.

Be well.

[M30USA]

My dearest M30USA, this post is evidence,more than anything else that you are absolutely not worth engaging with on such matters.

Your transparent logic is interspersed with flights of fancy into realms of fantasy.

I could shoot your post absolutely full of holes - believe me, I could.

But I won't, for 2 reasons:

 

One, is that it would not be either kind or skilful.

The second is that you would still take further flight, and I really don't think further reference to fairy tales does you favours.

 

Bye for now.

Be well.

 

Thanks for sparing me the ignominy.

 

Let me know if you'd like to have an educational discussion on Scripture. I'm sure I could help you learn more and disabuse some of the cultural misconceptions you've heard.

 

You take care too.

[Keenly]

Don't worry, m30 is better than everyone else. Your not allowed to form.your own thoughts or opinions. Because they are wrong. That part about 2 of every animal on the same boat. He thinks it really happened.

[M30USA]

Don't worry, m30 is better than everyone else. Your not allowed to form.your own thoughts or opinions. Because they are wrong. That part about 2 of every animal on the same boat. He thinks it really happened.

 

Lol, nah man. All I intend to do is correct misconceptions people have regarding Scripture and discuss why there is a discrepancy between the Scriptural texts and what is taught in the church. (Martin Luther did exactly this and we are better off for it. Was he arrogant? Condescending? Well, I'm sure some people thought so.)

[Keenly]

Lol, nah man. All I intend to do is correct misconceptions people have regarding Scripture and discuss why there is a discrepancy between the Scriptural texts and what is taught in the church. (Martin Luther did exactly this and we are better off for it. Was he arrogant? Condescending? Well, I'm sure some people thought so.)

 

Then why is it so hard for you to accept that not everyone chooses to love the way you do or believe the same things you do? You've shown it not only in this thread, but dozens of others, that you not only expect, but demand that everyone experiences life the same way you do. That's why none of us want to have a conversation with you .

[M30USA]

Then why is it so hard for you to accept that not everyone chooses to love the way you do or believe the same things you do? You've shown it not only in this thread, but dozens of others, that you not only expect, but demand that everyone experiences life the same way you do. That's why none of us want to have a conversation with you .

 

You can choose to disbelieve the Bible. I won't even argue. But, again, my only goal is to correct misinformation about the Bible for those who have chosen to believe it. That's all. Thus I started this thread.

 

But by all means live however you want to live and believe whatever you want. If you ever do decide to be Christian and accept the Bible as the Word of God, I guess we can talk then--since we'd at least agree on its authority.

[pureinheart]

I so wish I could have seen Moses walking BACK from Mount Sinai for several reasons:

 

1) I wish I could have seen his glowing, radiant face which he had to physically cover with a cloth. He didn't even see God directly; but just being NEARBY was evidently enough to cause a physical change in his face. For those who think this is symbolism and didn't literally turn his have bright, read the account of Jesus' transfiguration when he literally glowed bright white in full view of disciples.

 

2) I wish I could have seen him smash the 10 commandments. It's such a human thing to do. But it was based on the deep down passion that he was PISSED the Israelites couldn't even go a few days before worshipping a pagan image.

 

I sooo agree. I believe that to be the pivotal point for those being led out of "Egypt". Looking specifically on a personal level, and with the miracles I've personally seen, of which none of them can be proven, but "knowing" that they were nothing short of the evidence of "God".

 

Can you imagine SEEING the Red Sea being parted???? I'd be tripping, literally and if I wasn't completely sold out to God, well, that would do it.

 

It's my understanding that no one can see the face of God and live, it is the reason God has to see "us" through Jesus..nothing but perfection are able to view Him. Moses had to be quite some guy of God for God to reveal Himself in that manor (burning bush). I would have been pissed too, real pissed and an adult temper tantrum would have taken place.

 

Moses had quite the assignment, eh!

[M30USA]

I don't acknowledge sin as a legitimate state of being, because I do not live my life in the confines of 2,000 year old rules. You know, the same ones that say I cannot shave or clip my nails, or get tatoos, and a myriad of other rhetorical positions the bible has taken.

 

Israel had its own distinct laws and commands from God. You and I are Gentiles. They don't apply to us.

 

In the context of your belief, jesus lived in and with sin at certain times. That's also in the bible. For parrotting it so much you have very selective memory of it.

 

I'm assuming you're referring to the fact that Jesus was called "the friend of sinners". Jesus said the healthy do not need a doctor. He came to sinners because they are sick and he is the doctor. His association with sinners doesn't make him a sinner any more than a doctors association with his patient makes him sick.

[thatone]

Your post misses the point. We are talking about the discrepancy between Scripture and what is actually taught and accepted by Christian culture. You are talking about objectivity of what is "BS" versus what is true. That, while important, is a separate issue.

 

The point is basically the same, Atheists by nature have a critical mind. Thus it stands to reason that at some point they read the bible, or at least large portions of it, and decided to disbelieve.

 

I would wager that the vast majority of "Christians" have not read much of the bible they claim to believe in. Why should they? They are taking it on faith, having a priest tell them what it says and believing the priest is no different from their point of view.

[pureinheart]

Then why is it so hard for you to accept that not everyone chooses to love the way you do or believe the same things you do? You've shown it not only in this thread, but dozens of others, that you not only expect, but demand that everyone experiences life the same way you do. That's why none of us want to have a conversation with you .

 

Hey K,

 

I think we all have a tendancy towards what you speak of, especially if one is passionate of what they believe.

 

I see M30 in a "matter of fact" sorda way...not demanding. He'll usually say nothing rather than be demanding IMO. He likes to stay on track. It may "feel" demanding due to the passion.

 

There is a member that is passionate about the true understanding of Karma...again, 3 guesses as to who this would be:D, he/she (lol) is passionate about that and I've learned a lot from it, gained higher understanding due to her (ooops gave it away) passion, as well as M30.

 

I found that in fact "I" was the close minded one. I'm not inferring you are close minded BTW.

 

Anyway, I'd love to see you participate, it's a bumber to have only one view and that's why (IMO) M30 broadened this debate field- to include other faiths, and those that do not believe in God...

[M30USA]

Science has never been wrong-because science isn't a "thing." It's a method of understanding the world. Scientists, have, of course, been wrong about things. They admit when they are proven wrong, maybe begrudgingly, maybe a little unwillingly, but they will admit it, and re-evaluate their hypothesis to fit the evidence.

 

I wonder when the last time religion admitted it was wrong...oh, wait, never mind.

 

Lol, Christianity isn't a "thing" either, I suppose. Saying atheism and science are not "things" merely creates immunity for them, for which there is no accountability, criticism, or even any target at all. It's a very sneaky argument. FYI, tyrants use the same argument. They are above the law and cannot be targeted.