She Wants to Keep Her Last Name...Dealbreaker?

[Nicomis]

I am thinking of as gentle a way to say this, as not to risk causing damage to your fragile ego, OP, but I'm fairly sure that a woman who insists on keeping her last name is not a bag of garbage that would indeed sit out on your curb, crying because now she had no way of coping without your magnificent manliness.

 

If you would like me to put it in a more colloquial way, I'd suggest that any man who has such an issue needs to man the **** up and grow a set, because life isn't easy, and that should be the ****ing least of your concerns in this world.

 

I was attempting to read through the rants on this thread, but here it is. It's always "HE should MAN-UP", and GROW A SET". That's your answer for everything a man finds disagreeable. I'm selfish, and I'm this, and I'm that, because I wouldn't marry a woman that wouldn't take my name. How about, If SHE LOVES ME ENOUGH TO MARRY ME, SHE'LL DO IT. I even posted an instance where it would actually be acceptable for her to keep her name (established career success), but we are talking about her ex husbands name and her kids are grown. Half of you didn't even read the whole post. You just read "Won't change name........kick her to the curb.....disrespectful....., and proceeded on your N.O.W. anti-male march. I haven't done any name calling, but it sure does seem like you all might have some serious inferiority complex's going on.

[Treasa]

I was attempting to read through the rants on this thread, but here it is. It's always "HE should MAN-UP", and GROW A SET". That's your answer for everything a man finds disagreeable. I'm selfish, and I'm this, and I'm that, because I wouldn't marry a woman that wouldn't take my name. How about, If SHE LOVES ME ENOUGH TO MARRY ME, SHE'LL DO IT. I even posted an instance where it would actually be acceptable for her to keep her name (established career success), but we are talking about her ex husbands name and her kids are grown. Half of you didn't even read the whole post. You just read "Won't change name........kick her to the curb.....disrespectful....., and proceeded on your N.O.W. anti-male march. I haven't done any name calling, but it sure does seem like you all might have some serious inferiority complex's going on.

 

I read your whole post. Would you like a word-by-word breakdown of everything you said and how I feel about it?

 

The whole "kicking to the curb" concept indicates that a woman is a piece of furniture that you can just discard, and won't be able to survive or be happy without you.

 

You are totally free to marry or not marry whomever you want, but a woman is also free to make decisions that affect her.

 

And actually, if anything, I have a superiority complex. Inferiority complex was me last year and prior to that. Sorry, you missed your diagnosis window on that.

[Xinreeki]

If SHE LOVES ME ENOUGH TO MARRY ME, SHE'LL DO IT

 

Yeah maybe, but who's going to love you when you have such a demanding and bitter attitude?

 

Yikes... You are a scary scary guy... *Hides*

[Treasa]

Yeah maybe, but who's going to love you when you have such a demanding and bitter attitude?

 

Yikes... You are a scary scary guy... *Hides*

 

He's not scary. Just because someone has something that dangles between their legs doesn't mean they know the meaning of true strength or power and can't handle people who do.

[Nicomis]

Except that it isn't win-win for her.

 

My husband grew up in a house where there were three last names. It quite the pain apparently.

 

It sounds more like the OP isn't over the ex. And he's not even this woman's boyfriend. It isn't her ex's last name, it's her child's. You know, that person she gave birth to?

 

I don't think I'd switch names if I remarried. Because even if I had other children, that would leave my daughter as the lone outlier with the different last name.

 

I assure you OP is totally over his ex. (Who still has OP's last name, but I would hope she would change it were someone dumb enough to marry her).

[todreaminblue]

Pretty sure how this is going to go down, but it could be fun anyway. A friend of mine moved to Seattle from Atlanta about 3 years ago. He's been seeing the same woman exclusively for about a year. He called me last night, and said he was thinking about proposing, but she had said in passing that she wanted to keep her last name if she ever got married. He's 43, and she's 38, and it's not her fathers last name. It's her ex husband's, and her 1 child is grown and moved out. Despite the flaming I'm sure I'll get, If it was me, I'd kick her to the curb. Just seems to be another way women want us to "be the man", but want to take away his ability to be the head of his household. Marry a woman like that, and you will never see a day of respect. If a man asked 100 other men, if they would marry a woman that wanted to keep her last name, I'd bet 95 of them would say no way in hell. I can see it with celebrities, where maybe she built her success on that name, but otherwise no way. Might as well keep your balls in her purse. Flame on!

 

 

I am not going to flame you.........I dont understand the idea of marriage where you dont take the last name of your husband......BUT...it is a personal choice......and one that should be talked about when the time comes......i was a common law wife.......

 

 

 

i regard myself as having that common marriage for fifteen years...he wouldnt marry me and by law i could have taken his last name i think even in biblical ways...i was his wife......for fifteen years...i didnt take his last name...because he didnt want me to have it..he denied me that honor.....and now...i am glad........although i have three daughters who dont have the same last name as me........i face that at school...when people call me by his last name....i say no....i have a different last name...i have never married.......i think it stops a lot of problems......and questions........i think it was meant to be that way .....a husband takes a wife and she is his so the last name becomes a union...i think it is special.....but not all people feel this way....and you have to allow people to make their own choices....and nto worry about it as it doesnt directly affect your life....i wish you well....deb

[ChessPieceFace]

as a woman we often lose to much.so let her have it

 

Yeah, when you western women habitually kick out your husbands and keep the house, the kids and steal his money, you lose so much compared to us. (Cue world's smallest violin.)

 

OP: Keeping the last name "seems reasonable" if she has a kid and wants to keep the same last name as the kid ... however it also demonstrates how she will never value the new marriage like what she's already built (and destroyed) with the other guy. So why bother then? It's a clear and obvious sign that she's not going to give herself over to the partnership of marriage, not going to form a new and lasting bond, not trusting that things will work out for life. What if he has a kid with her? HIS kid is gonna have the name of the woman's ex??

 

She's divorced, lonely and using the guy. She's happy to take his money, and his affections as long as it suits her, but not his name. Disgusting. I'd walk. And thanks for reminding me why I need to avoid all divorced women.

Edited May 22, 2013 by ChessPieceFace

[dreamingoftigers]

I assure you OP is totally over his ex. (Who still has OP's last name, but I would hope she would change it were someone dumb enough to marry her).

 

You are the OP!

 

You are not over your friend's girlfriend's EX.:

[Nicomis]

You are the OP!

 

You are not over your friend's girlfriend's EX.:

 

I haven't met the guy, although I'm sure he's just wonderful.

[Xinreeki]

I'd walk. And thanks for reminding me why I need to avoid all divorced women.

 

I'm sure most of them would want to avoid you too if they could see how bitter you've become. Seriously, why all the hate and bitterness?

 

Not every woman out there is an over-bearing ogress waiting to pounce on you, drag you to the alter kicking and screaming, steal your money and put your balls in her purse!!

 

Please, fight against the bitterness! There are good women out there too, you just have to give them a chance and not always assume the worst about them!

[madjac74]

Almost every divorced woman I have dated hated their ex. Only one didn't hate her ex. One thing is for sure if a woman tells me how much she dislike her ex that is red flag for me.

 

Men aren't allowed to men anymore in most cases unless it's courting. Eventually though she will have the decision, this is especially true during marriage.

 

There is no point of marrying someone if two people don't have the same last name. Because they are suppose to be united not separate. That wouldn't be a real marriage in the traditional sense.

 

Wow that sounded bonkers! Not get married over a name? No matter if she is concerned about her kids identity that they grew up with? Any man that couldn't handle that should just remain single

[serial muse]

I was attempting to read through the rants on this thread, but here it is. It's always "HE should MAN-UP", and GROW A SET". That's your answer for everything a man finds disagreeable. I'm selfish, and I'm this, and I'm that, because I wouldn't marry a woman that wouldn't take my name. How about, If SHE LOVES ME ENOUGH TO MARRY ME, SHE'LL DO IT. I even posted an instance where it would actually be acceptable for her to keep her name (established career success), but we are talking about her ex husbands name and her kids are grown. Half of you didn't even read the whole post. You just read "Won't change name........kick her to the curb.....disrespectful....., and proceeded on your N.O.W. anti-male march. I haven't done any name calling, but it sure does seem like you all might have some serious inferiority complex's going on.

 

Oh, relax already. God. Look, you intentionally started off your thread with an insult about women.

 

Just seems to be another way women want us to "be the man", but want to take away his ability to be the head of his household.

 

Hi, thanks, that's sucky and tired stereotyping and we read that shxt here all the time. You even acknowledged while saying it that you're as much as asking to be flamed, and then you get all sadface when it happens? Heh. Troll much?

 

And out come the claws.

 

You get what you put in at LS. Mrowr right back at your cattiness. Welcome aboard. If you ever want to have a real discussion, I bet you know how to make that happen. It involves starting off by treating other people with respect.

[tbf]

Yes, men should kick every woman who doesn't want a name change to the curb. All women should kick every man who wants her to change her name to the curb.

 

The above should be applied to a wrinkle in the left nut or labia too. Or a single blemish lodged in the top right quadrant of the face.

 

EVERYONE needs to FAP alone. That's the ideal life.

[dreamingoftigers]

I was attempting to read through the rants on this thread, but here it is. It's always "HE should MAN-UP", and GROW A SET". That's your answer for everything a man finds disagreeable. I'm selfish, and I'm this, and I'm that, because I wouldn't marry a woman that wouldn't take my name. How about, If SHE LOVES ME ENOUGH TO MARRY ME, SHE'LL DO IT. I even posted an instance where it would actually be acceptable for her to keep her name (established career success), but we are talking about her ex husbands name and her kids are grown. Half of you didn't even read the whole post. You just read "Won't change name........kick her to the curb.....disrespectful....., and proceeded on your N.O.W. anti-male march. I haven't done any name calling, but it sure does seem like you all might have some serious inferiority complex's going on.

 

All the posts you seem to respond to are the ones that *might* bring up something that can be construed as anti-male.

 

Just skip through all of the valid posts with insights and actual discussion about the actual topic. Which of course is partially the attitude and opinion you have about this woman's choice to *possibly* keep her last name.

 

As if it's a great microcosm of gender relations and clear-cut female to male disrespect everywhere. It's not. Some folks have an attachment to their last name, some have an attachment to the tradition of the woman assuming the man's last name. Some don't care either way. But instead of evaluating and responding to those opinions and insights, you comb through this whole thread looking for "proof" of The Great Female Disrespect-a-Man campaign.

 

That's messed up. If someone pointed out to me point-blank that I could kill a mosquito with a shotgun if a fit of rage, I think I would examine that. There could very easily be something that would impact my future expectations and happiness.

 

Even the fact that you bluntly pointed out, "if she loved me enough she would do it." That means the fact that she has feelings for you, and hasn't even formally committed to you, means that she is obligated to compromise for you even though you don't value her enough to return the favor. That's not a gender thing. That's an expectation.

 

Someone loving you doesn't entitle you to decide their feelings or what they are going to do with them. It certainly doesn't entitle you to rename them. Your last name is a honour that you offer them if you are intending to marry someone (in your case, because you believe in the more traditional last name arrangement). It's not an entitlement. Contrary to what some believe on this board, giving a woman your last name no longer means that she is your property and by refusing to carry your mantle, is thereby worthless and should be cast out.

 

It means that she likes her last name, for whatever reason and would prefer to keep it. It most likely has nothing to do with slapping you, your friend or any man in the face.

 

I, as a human being, and somewhat of a traditionalist can understand the feelings of rejection that would come with turning down a common last name. However, if it's that much of a sticking point it might be best to realize that there is a lack of compatibility not necessarily a deficiency or hostility in the character of the person who disagrees with you.

 

But this isn't about a last name, is it?

It's about how this symbolically shows you female entitlement and disrespect. Because she is keeping what's hers. That's messed up. As someone that loves her and wants to marry her would you seriously deem it so necessary and reasonable to act so condescending to a mate?

 

I think that's much worse than having a difference of opinion over a last name. Much, much more disrespectful.

[dreamingoftigers]

Yes, men should kick every woman who doesn't want a name change to the curb. All women should kick every man who wants her to change her name to the curb.

 

The above should be applied to a wrinkle in the left nut or labia too. Or a single blemish lodged in the top right quadrant of the face.

 

EVERYONE needs to FAP alone. That's the ideal life.

I am still accepting wrinkled left nuts for my purse collection.

 

Some of you won't need them anyhow, apparently.

[serial muse]

Almost every divorced woman I have dated hated their ex. Only one didn't hate her ex. One thing is for sure if a woman tells me how much she dislike her ex that is red flag for me.

 

Men aren't allowed to men anymore in most cases unless it's courting. Eventually though she will have the decision, this is especially true during marriage.

 

There is no point of marrying someone if two people don't have the same last name. Because they are suppose to be united not separate. That wouldn't be a real marriage in the traditional sense.

 

See, my marriage is a real marriage, as far as my husband and I are concerned. I know you're speaking in the abstract, but I'm responding at a personal level. We take our vows extremely seriously. And I kept my name, and he had no problem with that. As I said earlier, I asked him how he felt about it, was willing to consider it, he said he really didn't mind either way, and that was that. Meanwhile, we love each other and respect each other and are faithful to each other and consider ourselves fully bound as a unit. What part of that makes it sound like it isn't a real marriage?

[tbf]

I am still accepting wrinkled left nuts for my purse collection.

 

Some of you won't need them anyhow, apparently.

How very practical! Nothing...wasted.

[Nicomis]

Oh, relax already. God. Look, you intentionally started off your thread with an insult about women.

 

Hi, thanks, that's sucky and tired stereotyping and we read that shxt here all the time. You even acknowledged while saying it that you're as much as asking to be flamed, and then you get all sadface when it happens? Heh. Troll much?

 

 

You get what you put in at LS. Mrowr right back at your cattiness. Welcome aboard. If you ever want to have a real discussion, I bet you know how to make that happen. It involves starting off by treating other people with respect.

 

Not sadfaced at all. Your buddies seem to be the ones butthurt. To quote grandma "A hit dog always hollers". If there were no truth to the stereotype they wouldn't be mad. But their anger wasn't at my stereotype, it was the fact that I said I would never marry a woman who wouldn't take my name. Because only women are allowed to have dealbreakers, If I guy does he's controlling, bitter, etc..... I'm neither one of those things, I just wouldn't budge on that particularly in my friends situation.

[Treasa]

Actually, if you had said, "I don't want to marry a woman who won't take my last name," I would have mentally said, ok, cool, or I would have posted that.

 

Like I said, marry whomever you'd like. But don't expect women to not have an opinion and not be willing to voice those opinions.

 

It's telling that you automatically started in on the N.O.W. stuff. I had to look it up to remember what it meant, and I originally thought you wrote NWO and thought "Neverwinter Online" which is an MMO I play.

 

I call women out just as often as men if they say something I completely disagree with.

[dreamingoftigers]

Yeah, when you western women habitually kick out your husbands and keep the house, the kids and steal his money, you lose so much compared to us. (Cue world's smallest violin.)

 

OP: Keeping the last name "seems reasonable" if she has a kid and wants to keep the same last name as the kid ... however it also demonstrates how she will never value the new marriage like what she's already built (and destroyed) with the other guy. So why bother then? It's a clear and obvious sign that she's not going to give herself over to the partnership of marriage, not going to form a new and lasting bond, not trusting that things will work out for life. What if he has a kid with her? HIS kid is gonna have the name of the woman's ex??

 

She's divorced, lonely and using the guy. She's happy to take his money, and his affections as long as it suits her, but not his name. Disgusting. I'd walk. And thanks for reminding me why I need to avoid all divorced women.

 

Good Lord, so many interpretations over an action that is nothing more than a personal choice you don't understand the context of.

 

You know this woman? You talk with her about her relationship and her intentions? Her choice about keeping her last name and why?

 

You seem to know a lot more than just an anonymous poster. It sounds like you've intercepted the plans she's been sending to the Russians for confirmation on when to strike.

 

And BTW, assets are typically divided up by income. And most men won't marry a women who makes more than them. So....... yeah, when it comes to divorce there is a shift in assets toward the woman who is often encouraged to stay home with the kids. Part of why I never did. Too risky. Too much potential career sacrifice when I could be having productive years that would later grant my daughter more opportunities than if I stayed home during nap time.

 

Regardless of the grandiose settlements you may hear from time to time, a lot of it is hype. Men's standard of living often goes UP five to ten percent after a divorce. My guess, they focus more on work and are granted more than enough to make up for whatever loss they *might* have incurred. Plus if they are paying child support, it is a set amount, not need by need like the usual household. Which overall is probably cheaper for him. IF he even pays it.

 

But nowadays there are a greater shift toward role variety. My husband and I very much split the child-rearing and housework responsibility. It's always been that way, except if I was working two jobs (which was common) then he would take over an extra portion of the housework.

 

Come, grow with the times. There isn't a free lunch for the woman who goes from wife to single mother. I definitely don't envy those who do it with small children. Plus the stigma every loudmouth likes to attach you to as a single mother. That's disgusting.

[ChessPieceFace]

One thing is for sure if a woman tells me how much she dislike her ex that is red flag for me.

 

Yep. Want to know how she will treat you? Find out how she treated her exes. Want to know if she'll respect you, find out how much she respects her exes. Just being divorced is already a giant red flag... for either gender but moreso for women, simply because women more often initiate divorce now since they will be the ones benefiting from it.

 

I'm sure most of them would want to avoid you too if they could see how bitter you've become. Seriously, why all the hate and bitterness?

 

Why all the hate and bitterness? If you can't see why almost any thinking man in the western world should be bitter (unless he's just a user of women who doesn't care about family and forever) then your eyes are closed. Go watch Girlwriteswhat on youtube and get informed.

 

Not every woman out there is an over-bearing ogress waiting to pounce on you, drag you to the alter kicking and screaming, steal your money and put your balls in her purse!!

 

But every woman out there has been incentivized and enabled by the court system to ruin my life on a whim and benefit from divorce, once I sign those marriage papers. That's the problem.

[SJC2008]

Evey situation is different as in Woggles, they don't want kids and seen no need for her to take on his last name, I understand that 100% and I'm sure there are other reasons a woman may not want to take the last name of the man and both can agree on it. TBS for me, if I get married I want my wife to take my last name. It's tradition, hence the tradition of the bride being walked down the isle by her father and "given" to the groom. Like I said the man is the head of the household and the leader of the family. While it is traditional I do belevie that you do have to adjust for the times on certain things if you will. Women are constanly burdened by two jobs, their real job and their second job at home with household duties. I would never treat my wife like that and would split all household duties.

[serial muse]

Not sadfaced at all. Your buddies seem to be the ones butthurt. To quote grandma "A hit dog always hollers". If there were no truth to the stereotype they wouldn't be mad. But their anger wasn't at my stereotype, it was the fact that I said I would never marry a woman who wouldn't take my name. Because only women are allowed to have dealbreakers, If I guy does he's controlling, bitter, etc..... I'm neither one of those things, I just wouldn't budge on that particularly in my friends situation.

 

This is what I'm talking about. You started off your thread with insults and strawmen arguments like the one in bold, and you expect people not to react? I mean really, don't be disingenuous.

 

Also, yes, the anger was the result of your stereotype. I guarantee that if you started the thread with respect - offered an opinion in the way that some of the other guys did, who agreed with you but did it without resorting to attacks - you would have gotten a different result.

 

Live and learn, right? I sure hope.

[Xinreeki]

 

Not sadfaced at all. Your buddies seem to be the ones butthurt. To quote grandma "A hit dog always hollers". If there were no truth to the stereotype they wouldn't be mad. But their anger wasn't at my stereotype, it was the fact that I said I would never marry a woman who wouldn't take my name. Because only women are allowed to have dealbreakers, If I guy does he's controlling, bitter, etc..... I'm neither one of those things, I just wouldn't budge on that particularly in my friends situation.

 

But its not even your situation... it's your friend's situation... Why do you care so much?

 

It certainly seems like you've set out to accuse women of being unmovable and demanding.. when I have clearly said that if a potential husband sat down with me to have a calm discussion about it, then I would be much more willing to consider it, and likely even go along with it , then if he were to issue an ultimatum (e.g. "either you change your name, or I'm out of here") as you did.

 

Evidence -

 

 

...The more willing a guy was to sit down and calmly have a discussion about it, without demanding anything or setting ultimatums the more likely I'd be to consider it / go along with it.

 

I even got you to try and think about the reverse situation -

 

 

How about... for a moment... just out of interest... you try reversing this scenario in your head...

 

Suppose a woman was giving YOU an ultimatum. Telling you-

 

"Either you change your name to mine or we're through!! Either you change your name to mine or I'll kick you to the curb!"

 

You'd walk right?

 

It would be a sign of a VERY controlling, demanding and petty individual, and not someone you would even want to consider marrying anymore.

 

Well, flip that... And that is how any mentally healthy (non-codependent) woman is going to see things.

 

And here -

 

 

But what if a woman felt that her potential husband was more committed to the marriage because he was willing to change his last name to her's?

 

I know its traditional for the wife to adopt the husband's name, and I wouldn't necessarily be against it personally, but in today's modern world that "reassuring feeling" you describe being a consequence of her willingness to adopt your name, could easily be reversed.

 

 

Did you do that? What thoughts did you have when you tried that?

[Nicomis]

All the posts you seem to respond to are the ones that *might* bring up something that can be construed as anti-male.

 

Just skip through all of the valid posts with insights and actual discussion about the actual topic. Which of course is partially the attitude and opinion you have about this woman's choice to *possibly* keep her last name.

 

As if it's a great microcosm of gender relations and clear-cut female to male disrespect everywhere. It's not. Some folks have an attachment to their last name, some have an attachment to the tradition of the woman assuming the man's last name. Some don't care either way. But instead of evaluating and responding to those opinions and insights, you comb through this whole thread looking for "proof" of The Great Female Disrespect-a-Man campaign.

 

That's messed up. If someone pointed out to me point-blank that I could kill a mosquito with a shotgun if a fit of rage, I think I would examine that. There could very easily be something that would impact my future expectations and happiness.

 

Even the fact that you bluntly pointed out, "if she loved me enough she would do it." That means the fact that she has feelings for you, and hasn't even formally committed to you, means that she is obligated to compromise for you even though you don't value her enough to return the favor. That's not a gender thing. That's an expectation.

 

Someone loving you doesn't entitle you to decide their feelings or what they are going to do with them. It certainly doesn't entitle you to rename them. Your last name is a honour that you offer them if you are intending to marry someone (in your case, because you believe in the more traditional last name arrangement). It's not an entitlement. Contrary to what some believe on this board, giving a woman your last name no longer means that she is your property and by refusing to carry your mantle, is thereby worthless and should be cast out.

 

It means that she likes her last name, for whatever reason and would prefer to keep it. It most likely has nothing to do with slapping you, your friend or any man in the face.

 

I, as a human being, and somewhat of a traditionalist can understand the feelings of rejection that would come with turning down a common last name. However, if it's that much of a sticking point it might be best to realize that there is a lack of compatibility not necessarily a deficiency or hostility in the character of the person who disagrees with you.

 

But this isn't about a last name, is it?

It's about how this symbolically shows you female entitlement and disrespect. Because she is keeping what's hers. That's messed up. As someone that loves her and wants to marry her would you seriously deem it so necessary and reasonable to act so condescending to a mate?

 

I think that's much worse than having a difference of opinion over a last name. Much, much more disrespectful.

 

Seriously, there are 127 posts. I don't have time to respond personally to each one. You are reading way to much into it. Hypothetically, if it were me in my friends situation, I would tell her how I felt about it, and if she wouldn't budge on that one thing, than I could probably expect her to be the same about most any important decision. Somebody has to be head of the household, somebody has to have the final say, otherwise it doesn't work. (see our current divorce rate) Some guys are OK with a woman running the show, and being head of the house. One of those guys will be great for her, I'm just not that guy. I feel you become a family once your married, and women (aside from the aforementioned exceptions), who wish to keep their maiden name, or ex husbands name, do it to make a point, and whether you will admit it or not, to emasculate her husband. For the record I'm OK with the woman using her maiden name as a middle name, or even hyphenating it. Not taking the man's name at all is a slap in the face.