How to Build a Modern Church 101

[TheFinalWord]

I think he loves it. :laugh:

 

lol Well, I really think M30 should take some courses in apologetics and hone in his skills. William Lane Craig and Ravi Zachuris have several on-line courses on apologetics. A bunch of churches are offering these courses now.

 

Science, Atheism & Freewill - Dr. Ravi Zacharias respond - YouTube

[M30USA]

lol Well, I really think M30 should take some courses in apologetics and hone in his skills. William Lane Craig and Ravi Zachuris have several on-line courses on apologetics. A bunch of churches are offering these courses now.

 

Science, Atheism & Freewill - Dr. Ravi Zacharias respond - YouTube

 

Nah, I'm not big on apologetics. My passion is to teach the Scripture for what it says, not to defend it. Just let it say what it says. Maybe that's why I've been accused of "deflection" and "evasion"--both crimes. I don't care to defend. I just present.

[pie2]

Hey, Elijah is coming again. How do you know it's not me? Hehe, kidding. (Besides, Elijah will come out of the sky in a UFO, you should know, hehe. For real, that's what the Jews thought. They were/are waiting for Elijah to come down from the sky.)

 

I think you will eventually get some wings M30 . Dare I say that you'll one day be a UFO? (heehee)

[pureinheart]

At one time, the great pastors of old were considered "modern", and naysayers critiqued their every move (all the while, never stepping up to the plate to contribute to God's Kingdom in most cases, I imagine).

 

M30, can you think of anything positive that these modern gurus have done for our society? Dave Ramsey's message (Mr. Ramsey, who isn't a pastor, as far as I know) seems to help millions learn how to administer the money God has blessed them with in a way that is biblically sound. His message is much different than secular financial advisers; it's based entirely on the word.

 

There was another Pastor/Teacher...he used to do a radio program called "Money Matters" ...he was completely sound. His area of ministry was helping people use the money God gave them properly, teaching how to get out of serious debt and how to invest. There's nothing wrong with this.

[pureinheart]

There was another Pastor/Teacher...he used to do a radio program called "Money Matters" ...he was completely sound. His area of ministry was helping people use the money God gave them properly, teaching how to get out of serious debt and how to invest. There's nothing wrong with this.

 

Larry Burkett...he passed in 2003:(:(:(

[pie2]

There was another Pastor/Teacher...he used to do a radio program called "Money Matters" ...he was completely sound. His area of ministry was helping people use the money God gave them properly, teaching how to get out of serious debt and how to invest. There's nothing wrong with this.

 

 

Oh, I used to listen to Crown Financial Ministries sometimes! I loved it . But it went off the air in my area .

 

The Crown Financial Ministries and Dave Ramsey can only give the information out. The listeners will do with it what they please, and interpret it however they want. I've heard Dave Ramsey quote all of the biblical reasons why we're called to be financially responsible, and I hear him say that if we're stable, the greater ability we have to tithe and help others!

[M30USA]

and I hear him say that if we're stable, the greater ability we have to tithe and help others!

 

Yea, well this is an example of what I call a "secondary motive". Some part of him may, in fact, desire to help others with donating money, etc. But do you think that's his main motive for becoming rich or writing that book? I suggest to you it's not. I suggest to you the reason is SECURITY APART FROM GOD.

 

And this, my friends, is precisely how God will judge our hearts. We keep talking about how God judges the heart, the heart, the heart. But why are we so opposed to TRUE exploration of our hearts and what REALLY motivates us?

Edited May 25, 2013 by M30USA

[pureinheart]

Nah, I'm not big on apologetics. My passion is to teach the Scripture for what it says, not to defend it. Just let it say what it says. Maybe that's why I've been accused of "deflection" and "evasion"--both crimes. I don't care to defend. I just present.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, although the Bible isn't completely "down" on money, in fact the Word says for us to wise stewarts of it. We are supposed to tithe money.

 

...and you do an excellent job, I've learned a lot from you and thank you for that...

 

Personally, I don't believe God cares whether we are rich or poor, I think it's about our relationship with Him. Being rich or poor doesn't make on more or less spiritual.

 

I so agree that there are wrong hearts in church leaders...

 

Hey, you want to know a biggy that no one will agree with me on, but I strongly believe this:

 

It's concerning divorce. I really believe that God does not take issue with divorce UNLESS He joined them together- lol, the Word says it- What GOD has joined together, let no man put asunder...anyway, thought I'd let you know, that I know where you're coming from, I just like to throw my opinion out there:D

[M30USA]

Correct me if I'm wrong, although the Bible isn't completely "down" on money, in fact the Word says for us to wise stewarts of it. We are supposed to tithe money.

 

...and you do an excellent job, I've learned a lot from you and thank you for that...

 

Personally, I don't believe God cares whether we are rich or poor, I think it's about our relationship with Him. Being rich or poor doesn't make on more or less spiritual.

 

I so agree that there are wrong hearts in church leaders...

 

Hey, you want to know a biggy that no one will agree with me on, but I strongly believe this:

 

It's concerning divorce. I really believe that God does not take issue with divorce UNLESS He joined them together- lol, the Word says it- What GOD has joined together, let no man put asunder...anyway, thought I'd let you know, that I know where you're coming from, I just like to throw my opinion out there:D

 

Since I am guilty of being divorced, I lose my right to judge others in this area (based on Matthew 7, especially verse 5).

 

*Most people incorrectly interpret this to mean NEVER judge. That's not what it's saying. It says to not judge when you are guilty of the SAME sin. In fact, Jesus tells us to first correct our own sin and THEN judge, yes judge, another.

Edited May 25, 2013 by M30USA

[pureinheart]

Oh, I used to listen to Crown Financial Ministries sometimes! I loved it . But it went off the air in my area .

 

The Crown Financial Ministries and Dave Ramsey can only give the information out. The listeners will do with it what they please, and interpret it however they want. I've heard Dave Ramsey quote all of the biblical reasons why we're called to be financially responsible, and I hear him say that if we're stable, the greater ability we have to tithe and help others!

 

IMO it's a sin NOT to use our money wisely...and...not just money, all resourses such as giftings, talents, time, not to waste (anything) (I'm weird about wasting food and water...lol).

 

Thanks Pie for responding, I was wondering if I was making any sense- on the weekends my grandkids stay with me and the littlest (4) was wired for sound tonight...the nerves are shot:eek:

 

Oh and tithing is a major important issue IMO- I have a remarkable story concerning that.

[pureinheart]

Since I am guilty of being divorced, I lose my right to judge others in this area (based on Matthew 7, especially verse 5).

 

*Most people incorrectly interpret this to mean NEVER judge. That's not what it's saying. It says to not judge when you are guilty of the SAME sin. In fact, Jesus tells us to first correct our own sin and THEN judge, yes judge, another.

 

LOL, totally ROFLMBO...not at you, but at me. This is why I can't judge anything, if there is a sin, I've done it...well maybe there is one I haven't. That's how I began the process of becoming saved. I had the Ten Commandments on my wall...going through each Commandment- boastfully I came to one I hadn't committed (Thou shalt not murder)...God said, yes you did. Thinking, well, I'm screwed then. Shortly after that many people were sent in my way to preach salvation, then on the operating table Jesus captured me:D

 

IMO M30, you did not sin...in fact I will step out on a limb here to state that the divorce set you back into the perfect will of God (God please forgive me and set my mind straight if this is wrong, in Jesus name, amen).

[TheFinalWord]

Yea, well this is an example of what I call a "secondary motive". Some part of him may, in fact, desire to help others with donating money, etc. But do you think that's his main motive for becoming rich or writing that book? I suggest to you it's not. I suggest to you the reason is SECURITY APART FROM GOD.

 

But how do you KNOW that to be true? It seems you are just making a cursory judgement, when you really do not know this man. It seems easy just to sit back and blast this guy's ministry, but how can you make accurate conclusions that his motives are ungodly? Guilty until prove innocent?

 

If you have a better way to educate Christians about money, do something about it I'm being serious. Give a class at your church.

[pureinheart]

Yea, well this is an example of what I call a "secondary motive". Some part of him may, in fact, desire to help others with donating money, etc. But do you think that's his main motive for becoming rich or writing that book? I suggest to you it's not. I suggest to you the reason is SECURITY APART FROM GOD.

 

And this, my friends, is precisely how God will judge our hearts. We keep talking about how God judges the heart, the heart, the heart. But why are we so opposed to TRUE exploration of our hearts and what REALLY motivates us?

 

I hate this- you both make sense.

 

Here's my 10cents worth. It's the motive behind the motive. Case in point- I have a friend that is priddy ok with finances, meaning he is fairly well off...he says when he gets "rich" he will help others. I called BS on him as he could help NOW- what about the woman that gave all she had????

 

Bold- dude, my heart is scary, and try to avoid it..lol, just kidding. I do search my heart the best I can, and can tell you my motives are sometimes extremely selfish. Now- the motive for searching my own heart? Because having lived long enough to know, if I don't He will, when He does I go to the shed..now lately it's because I want to do the right thing...but why is that? The Shed.

 

Ok, here's another- I'm not dishonest too much concerning a lot of things- let's look at money here...reason, is it because I'm such a wonderful Christian...nope, it's because I don't like getting caught. Bottom line, arrogance.

[pureinheart]

But how do you KNOW that to be true? It seems you are just making a cursory judgement, when you really do not know this man. It seems easy just to sit back and blast this guy's ministry, but how can you make accurate conclusions that his motives are ungodly? Guilty until prove innocent?

 

If you have a better way to educate Christians about money, do something about it I'm being serious. Give a class at your church.

 

This is what I was thinking, but didn't know how to word it. Also wanted to say that over the years I'm real careful of what I say about Gods people, why- the shed. When you've been on a short leash for as long as me, you get real careful...but God had to do this...what does God say about the tongue?

 

Words are powerful, they can either curse or bless.

 

M30, you have a powerful gift and anointing:)

[M30USA]

But how do you KNOW that to be true? It seems you are just making a cursory judgement, when you really do not know this man. It seems easy just to sit back and blast this guy's ministry, but how can you make accurate conclusions that his motives are ungodly? Guilty until prove innocent?

 

If you have a better way to educate Christians about money, do something about it I'm being serious. Give a class at your church.

 

TFW, suffice it to say that I've read his entire book. He fits hand in hand with the idea of those who claim that God "wants" us to be wealthy. I will leave it at that. I respect your difference and at least we both know where the other stands on this.

[TheFinalWord]

I hate this- you both make sense.

 

Here's my 10cents worth. It's the motive behind the motive. Case in point- I have a friend that is priddy ok with finances, meaning he is fairly well off...he says when he gets "rich" he will help others. I called BS on him as he could help NOW- what about the woman that gave all she had????

 

Bold- dude, my heart is scary, and try to avoid it..lol, just kidding. I do search my heart the best I can, and can tell you my motives are sometimes extremely selfish. Now- the motive for searching my own heart? Because having lived long enough to know, if I don't He will, when He does I go to the shed..now lately it's because I want to do the right thing...but why is that? The Shed.

 

Ok, here's another- I'm not dishonest too much concerning a lot of things- let's look at money here...reason, is it because I'm such a wonderful Christian...nope, it's because I don't like getting caught. Bottom line, arrogance.

 

lol well I don't want to confuse anyone

 

My thing is so many Christians critique and criticize...BUT these same Christians aren't actually contributing to any ministry, i.e. armchair quarterbacks. I'm not saying this is M30, this is just a trend I have noticed.

 

I think the best thing to do is to be productive in the calling God has called you to and not worry so much about everyone else. Make an actual difference by working in the ministry God has called you into, and spend less time discussing everything that other Christians are doing wrong. Lead by example. That's what Jesus did.

 

I could sit back and criticize minister x all day and how out of whack he is with scripture, or I could contribute to a ministry or start my own and manifest the ministry God has put into my heart.

 

"What is my ministry?"

 

Who's pain do you feel? That's a good place to start.

 

What are your God-given talents? Is another good question.

 

(When I say you/your below, I am just being general, not anyone in particular)

 

Identify your ministry and start working. Pray for the Lord to give you a life purpose and produce the vision God has in your heart. How do you know if you're on the right path? If you're doing this right, your faith will increase. Why? Because as you step out in faith, you will be tested (this can happen in many ways, through breaking barriers, spiritual warfare, interactions with others, etc.). God will use these tests to temper us into the image of Christ. Spend time building, and you won't have much time to tear down

 

And I hate to say this...but if you are in walking in your calling, fruit will be produced. Is calling out false ministries on LS actually producing anything? Interesting discussion perhaps for the 4 or 5 of us here that are Christians lol, but is it producing anything eternal for the Glory of God? And these are the hard questions we have to ask ourselves and for God to show the truth to us. If not, than we may be guilty of wasting precious time (God's currency is time; how are we spending it? That's the real heart issue question of stewardship).

 

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

[M30USA]

lol well I don't want to confuse anyone

 

My thing is so many Christians critique and criticize...BUT these same Christians aren't actually contributing to any ministry, i.e. armchair quarterbacks. I'm not saying this is M30, this is just a trend I have noticed.

 

I think the best thing to do is to be productive in the calling God has called you to and not worry so much about everyone else. Make an actual difference by working in the ministry God has called you into, and spend less time discussing everything that other Christians are doing wrong. Lead by example. That's what Jesus did.

 

I could sit back and criticize minister x all day and how out of whack he is with scripture, or I could contribute to a ministry or start my own and manifest the ministry God has put into my heart.

 

"What is my ministry?"

 

Who's pain do you feel? That's a good place to start.

 

What are your God-given talents? Is another good question.

 

Identify your ministry and start working. Pray for the Lord to give you a life purpose and produce the vision God has in your heart. How do you know if you're on the right path? If you're doing this right, your faith will increase. Why? Because as you step out in faith, you will be tested. God will use these tests to temper us into the image of Christ. Spend time building, and you won't have much time to tear down

 

And I hate to say this...but if you are in walking in your calling, fruit will be produced. Is calling out false ministries on LS actually producing anything? Interesting discussion perhaps for the 4 or 5 of us here that are Christians lol, but is it producing anything eternal for the Glory of God? And these are the hard questions we have to ask ourselves and for God to show the truth to us. If not, than we may be guilty of wasting precious time (God's currency is time; how are we spending it? That's the real heart issue question of stewardship).

 

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

Lol, armchair quarterbacks. Haven't heard that one.

 

I just know not everyone is meant to take the same approach I'm taking. What if this is kind of like saying we need plumbers and academics, together. Carefree and wise people, together. I just can't NOT be who I am. I honestly don't intend to be critical. It's not even critical, in my opinion. I feel like I was just born to see right through doctrines and see right away if they are of God or not. Are there things I don't know? Absolutely. But I usually keep my mouth shut in that case. Honestly, I do. If I don't know something, I literally don't say a word.

[TheFinalWord]

TFW, suffice it to say that I've read his entire book. He fits hand in hand with the idea of those who claim that God "wants" us to be wealthy. I will leave it at that. I respect your difference and at least we both know where the other stands on this.

 

Okay, that's cool. I'm not asking these questions for an actual response (unless you want). Mainly just another viewpoint for you to consider. You don't have to answer to me lol I'm not God, just a sinner saved by grace.

 

But I do know my sin and condemnation were nailed to the cross with Jesus. There is no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus.

[TheFinalWord]

Lol, armchair quarterbacks. Haven't heard that one.

 

Yeah, I had a friend that at every game instructed all of us how the coach did everything wrong, what he should have done, how he should revise this play or change up this player.

 

My thought was if you're so good, why are you working at Subway and this coach is a leading a professional football team? lol

 

He never considered the perspective of the coach. And that's okay, he's not equipped to handle all of that stress and burden. Not everyone is called to that.

 

I understand why though. When we are passionate about something, we become defensive. Humans have the innate capacity to criticize and critique. Often with limited information. I do too, though I normally critize data so people don't get offended lol

 

In terms of ministry, it's not in the bible, though I'm sure there's a proverb somewhere..."if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself". I encourage it

[pureinheart]

Here's another point I'd like to put out there. Until we've walked a mile in another shoes, we can not really know the motive behind the motive. Ok, I've talked much about the Shed, but God has cut me a lot of slack too. Why because He knows what I've been through more than I do. He knows why I do what I do, good and bad.

 

If any of you were to get up close and personal with me, meaning walk with me day to day for about a month, there are many areas you'd respect, and many you wouldn't. None of us are meant to be God and He loves us the way we are today.

 

Same with the preachers out there. We don't know what they've been through....a friend of mine has a saying- "if you think I'm bad now, you should have seen me a few years ago"...

 

Many people who suffered during the Depression became hoarders of all sorts of things, many traumas caused people to do "off" things...believe me, I know.

[TheFinalWord]

I just can't NOT be who I am. I honestly don't intend to be critical. It's not even critical, in my opinion. I feel like I was just born to see right through doctrines and see right away if they are of God or not. Are there things I don't know? Absolutely. But I usually keep my mouth shut in that case. Honestly, I do. If I don't know something, I literally don't say a word.

 

I think you should be who you are. Who you are is a great blessing!

 

You have a lot of great attributes. For one, a ton of patience. I have witnessed non-stop insults hurled at you, but I have never read one time where you have ever said anything nasty in reply. Staying cool when you're core beliefs are being mocked is a rare character trait that could benefit a lot of ministries.

 

I do think your gifts could be honed in in a way that will reap a massive harvest. I think God will show you what it is in time.

 

I do know that I spent years arguing on-line with every religion and non-religion you can think of. Most Christians go through that phase when you are on fire and want everyone to know (and in the process burn a lot of people lol). Keep studying brother. All things work together for good to those that love him and are called according to his purpose. Whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are of good report, if there be any virtue or praise, think on these things.

[TheFinalWord]

.going through each Commandment- boastfully I came to one I hadn't committed (Thou shalt not murder)...God said, yes you did.

 

You're posts crack me up :lmao:

 

Isn't God a funny one? I could tell some stories of funny things God has done in my life. I think he just likes to hear us laugh sometimes (Who doesn't love to hear the laughter of their children?).

 

One time I was arguing with God (He doesn't mind: God has more patience than you can imagine). I was arguing b/c I didn't get my way. Was upset and pouting (spiritually) on the outside so no one would know (I applied the Matt 6 rule to anoint you face so only God knows when you're suffering lol). The next day, God opened up a much better door for me. It made me laugh, not because the action was funny, but b/c how dumb I was for doubting God who has always supplied. It's like when you get those relapses in faith, and then God comes through, you laugh at yourself for how weak you are. Man, I've been saved xxx years and I'm still struggling with this? Reminds me of those stiff-necked Israelites in the wilderness "Moses were there not enough graves in Egypt that you had to take us into the wilderness to die! Didn't we tell you to leave us alone? It would have better to be slaves in Egypt to die in the wilderness!!" Light bulb: When I struggle I have to press into God...draw near to God and he will draw near to you. That funny God, he's always teaching those he loves new lessons in growth

 

PIH, you rock. If all Christians were as honest and open as you, church would be a lot more real!!

[pureinheart]

lol well I don't want to confuse anyone

 

My thing is so many Christians critique and criticize...BUT these same Christians aren't actually contributing to any ministry, i.e. armchair quarterbacks. I'm not saying this is M30, this is just a trend I have noticed.

 

I think the best thing to do is to be productive in the calling God has called you to and not worry so much about everyone else. Make an actual difference by working in the ministry God has called you into, and spend less time discussing everything that other Christians are doing wrong. Lead by example. That's what Jesus did.

 

I could sit back and criticize minister x all day and how out of whack he is with scripture, or I could contribute to a ministry or start my own and manifest the ministry God has put into my heart.

 

"What is my ministry?"

 

Who's pain do you feel? That's a good place to start.

 

What are your God-given talents? Is another good question.

 

(When I say you/your below, I am just being general, not anyone in particular)

 

Identify your ministry and start working. Pray for the Lord to give you a life purpose and produce the vision God has in your heart. How do you know if you're on the right path? If you're doing this right, your faith will increase. Why? Because as you step out in faith, you will be tested (this can happen in many ways, through breaking barriers, spiritual warfare, interactions with others, etc.). God will use these tests to temper us into the image of Christ. Spend time building, and you won't have much time to tear down

 

And I hate to say this...but if you are in walking in your calling, fruit will be produced. Is calling out false ministries on LS actually producing anything? Interesting discussion perhaps for the 4 or 5 of us here that are Christians lol, but is it producing anything eternal for the Glory of God? And these are the hard questions we have to ask ourselves and for God to show the truth to us. If not, than we may be guilty of wasting precious time (God's currency is time; how are we spending it? That's the real heart issue question of stewardship).

 

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

Oh God forbid I get confused ROFLMBO (literally)

 

Amen, and this is what my mind needs to focus on...thanks TFW:) Knowing your post wasn't directed at anyone in particular, I take it to heart to learn from it.

 

Man, most things sound so good from you guys, I feel like a flake:lmao::lmao:

 

Ok, this is another thing I'd like to put out there ...whatever giftings a person has, the counterfeit of that gifting can take place. I've seen it with myself.

 

Take for example the gift of Exortation. The person who truly has this gift will be the most horrible person you met ripping apart everyone and everything in a very cruel manor.

 

The gift of mercy- wow, the counterfeit will be the most merciless person you ever saw. The exact opposite.

 

M30, I wonder if some of your giftings aren't in conflict and just need alignment. I say this in complete love, actually with little emotion involved at all (which is unusual for me:D). Mine get out of alignment all of the time(big shock eh!). With the many giftings you have, it wouldn't be hard for one to be out a bit, and his will throw the others off- hey just something to consider.

 

Another avenue to consider, I noticed that most of the major issues with preachers centers around money. One observation is that you are a one track person, meaning you stay on track and rarely deviate- if my observation is incorrect, call me out on it love.

 

I sincerely ask you to take to the Throne (if you haven't already) the issue of money. Asking the Lord to reveal any issues with it, any past traumas and such.

 

I ask this in love...right now, as of this five minutes, my heart is right in this. I am sensing trauma, major trauma somewhere...

 

Humor me M30:D:D:D

[pureinheart]

You're posts crack me up :lmao:

 

Isn't God a funny one? I could tell some stories of funny things God has done in my life. I think he just likes to hear us laugh sometimes (Who doesn't love to hear the laughter of their children?).

 

One time I was arguing with God (He doesn't mind: God has more patience than you can imagine). I was arguing b/c I didn't get my way. Was upset and pouting (spiritually) on the outside so no one would know (I applied the Matt 6 rule to anoint you face so only God knows when you're suffering lol). The next day, God opened up a much better door for me. It made me laugh, not because the action was funny, but b/c how dumb I was for doubting God who has always supplied. It's like when you get those relapses in faith, and then God comes through, you laugh at yourself for how weak you are. Man, I've been saved xxx years and I'm still struggling with this? Reminds me of those stiff-necked Israelites in the wilderness "Moses were there not enough graves in Egypt that you had to take us into the wilderness to die! Didn't we tell you to leave us alone? It would have better to be slaves in Egypt to die in the wilderness!!" Light bulb: When I struggle I have to press into God...draw near to God and he will draw near to you. That funny God, he's always teaching those he loves new lessons in growth

 

PIH, you rock. If all Christians were as honest and open as you, church would be a lot more real!!

 

Yep, I'm proof (bold), by Him not taking my (blank) off this earth yet:lmao::lmao: (no lie). Hey, if we don't laugh at ourselves, we become borrrring!

 

That is awesome and love the quick works He does...dude, I seriously believe He does have a MAJOR sense of humor and know He shakes His head with me all of the time...lol just like my dad did!!!!

 

Have you ever won an argument with God, if so....please communicate it. I always loose. I gave up and just say WHATEVER until break through comes or have yet another adult temper tantrum. Those aren't pretty either, the dogs run for cover. One time I threw a heavy wooden chair at the wall and it stuck there, with the legs going through to the other side into my daughters room:lmao::lmao: ...wall art! Both sides! I haven't thrown anything in awhile now.

 

Hey break out the stories dude...maybe we could start a thread- "Stories, God let us live, in spite of ourselves", No?:lmao::lmao:

 

Hey you rock too, and backatcha, the church needs billions like you...you know what, I'd love to get stuck in an elevator with you and pick your brain for about 5 hours. I know that sounds off the wall and possibly creepy:lmao:, but my friend used to say that about the really intelligent preachers she knew...thinking man, I like that and it sounds good!

[OpenBook]

Something about this thread is resonating with me. Can't quite put my finger on it. In my own journey things are hitting me right between the eyes that are similar to what you guys are describing...

 

I think the best thing to do is to be productive in the calling God has called you to and not worry so much about everyone else. Make an actual difference by working in the ministry God has called you into, and spend less time discussing everything that other Christians are doing wrong. Lead by example. That's what Jesus did.

 

This is the message God keeps showing me over and over again lately. St Francis of Assisi: "Preach the gospel at all times. Use words if necessary." That's where I want to be.

 

I could sit back and criticize minister x all day and how out of whack he is with scripture, or I could contribute to a ministry or start my own and manifest the ministry God has put into my heart.

 

As I get more and more involved with the church I've been attending since I moved here, I've been extra careful not to criticize anything or anybody! The last church I was really involved with, turned fractious and eventually imploded due to infighting and people taking sides and turning against each other. I want NO part of that, in any way, ever again! I'd love to be a peacemaker or at least contribute to a harmonious atmosphere if I can. I crave peace and harmony.

 

if you are in walking in your calling, fruit will be produced.

 

Thanks for that reminder! I can bridge that over from one of my recent lessons I've been taught in acquiring discernment - "By their fruit ye shall know them."