fOW and OW: Things change...

[findingnemo]

There's a thread where the OP feels under attack at some point and wonders whether she will one day be perfect like some posters who are critical of her situation. It made me go back and look at my old threads.

 

We are not perfect. I came here broken after years of pretending to hold it together. Here I stated exactly what I thought and while I'm ashamed reading some of it, I know that discussing things helped me analyze the situation better. There is a big difference in my posts now and an even bigger one in my thinking. I am honestly shocked at some of the things I said. Was that me? Did I really believe what I wrote? Yes, I did. That was me when I got here. Me at my lowest, a true reflection of my inner thoughts. Imperfect but real.

 

Has anyone changed the way they view their A since they joined LS? Tell me about it. What do you think about your A now (whether in or out of it)?

[secretlady76]

I have learnt that:

 

As much as we don't want to believe it, the A wasn't unique. It's like everybody else's.

 

That an affair is the gift that keeps on giving. Even once it's over, the ramifications of it go on and on and on.

 

That the majority of women have bigger balls than men.

 

That some people in these situation are cowards.

 

That even in this day and age, the OW is vilified.

 

That the APs, despite the hurt they've caused, still go sniffing around for scraps once the dust has settled.

 

That breadcrumbs are just that, breadcrumbs.

 

The main learning curve though and I now rant about it all the time - how ACTIONS are the thing you guage, not WORDS.

 

That an affair is a true ADDICTION and should be treated as such.

 

That no AP has any clue as to the impact the A has on the BS.

[anne1707]

Has anyone changed the way they view their A since they joined LS? Tell me about it. What do you think about your A now (whether in or out of it)?

 

As a fWS...

 

My view has changed in that coming to LS helped me see the impact of what I had done more clearly. I knew during the affair that what I was doing was wrong and unfair, that I was being selfish and was hurting both my husband and the exOM. I could see that even more when dday came when my H finally knew what had been happening - seeing his pain was awful.

 

Initially LS was part of my recovery and the kick up the backside that I needed to take responsibility and act rather than "letting things happen" - cop out of ever there was one.

 

Reading the posts from both BS and OW who are/have dealt with the pain an affair has brought them has opened my eyes to the full extent of what I did. During the affair, my focus was all on protecting myself and I did not give much thought to just how much I was hurting the exOM even when he did get frustrated at me not making a decision and said his life was on hold for me. And as for my husband - I was head in the sand there too plus after dday, his nature is that he internally processed a lot of the time rather than let me see his pain. Don't get me wrong - we did talk/fight/cry/hug - but he also worked through a lot on his own so some of the things said on LS just helped crystallise what he was going through.

 

LS helped me realise what pain I had caused to all involved.

[Goodbye]

I have changed my views of my former R with exMM. Sadly, I realize now it wasn't all that unique. I realize now that he MAY have felt those things but it is only actions that are truly an indicator of love. The whole "affair bubble" concept Pierre always talks of...when I first came to LS, I dismissed it, and now I realize it fits perfectly in my case. It has also been helpful to read the perspectives of BS's. Helped me come to the conclusion that I'm done with it, I don't want to be part of that.

[findingnemo]

Yes, I agree with what you've all posted. Though I was long out of my A, I was still suffering as a result. The gift that keeps on giving indeed. Even now it continues to give...

 

At one point, I really believed he was a cake eater and therefore some kind of monster. This was after I read all the similar stories to mine. I was disgusted!!! I couldn't believe that MMs had a standard operating procedure. While I still believe he likes cake, I've come to understand better the dynamics of our A and my contribution to it. The more I learned, the less mad at him I became.

[Tangerine Lipgloss]

This forum kept me OUT of an affair or any shady business.

 

It scared me out of whatever I was thinking of doing.

[findingnemo]

I hear you, LadyGrey.

 

I was just explaining in another thread that I didn't really give much thought to As before I became the OW. But once in, I was torn, restless, manic with moments of utter joy and moments of total despair. When I look back, the rationalization was what kept me there.

 

Don't worry about being a hard a$$! You're always making sense and trying to understand the situation. That's what posters come here for. To try and understand why they are where they are and to get differing opinions.

 

Affairs aren't about truth or what I feel is the true definition of love. They disempower you, they shred you and depending on your position in the triangle, they cause untold amounts of pain.

 

Ain't that the truth!!!

[Summer Breeze]

I came here many years after my xH cheated on me and a few years after I ended an A with DMM. I learned a whole lot about reconciliation. I was always one who said you cheat on me and it's over, and when xH did cheat on me it was over. I gave reconciling about 5 minutes worth of thought and then that was that. It was before the time of the internet and being able to share things and look at stats from a myriad of places.

 

I think I learned I'm very happy at the choice I made about leaving my xH. I loved him dearly and I was crushed but I never deflected the blame. It was him. He cheated and no other fact mattered. I see so many rationalizations that there were 2 involved and I can see where that almost has to be a coping mechanism to accept it all. How do you accept that the 1 person who was to protect you above all else didn't. They lied to you every second for years and then consciously put the knife in and twisted. I've always said I don't believe my xH cheated on his W (who was OW) but I knew I couldn't have ever trusted him again.

 

I also learned that my A was unique. I remember saying in here that I never fell out of love with MM and also that leaving was the best thing I did for myself. He made his choices and I made mine. Through it all I never doubted his love for me nor mind for him.

 

I've learned a lot about how I post many things. I always spoke up in infidelity forum about how I wouldn't R because I thought it was a point of view not too many people took but after some nasty PMs and a few comments I stopped. That point of view wasn't welcome so I tend to not say a whole lot now. There are a few posters that post that same type of way but they also attack OW on a regular basis so I figure they're looked a little differently than I was.

 

I always identified more with the role of OW for some reason. Maybe it was the more recent of the 2 situations. Maybe it was the way OW are often talked at here rather than talked to. I'm one to champion the underdog.

 

I think I've mellowed and I walk away from some of the bitchiness that goes on rather than try and get involved.

 

I see some of the people posting in here who I've been reading for years now. I see some people stuck in the mud and know now they'll be where they are forever and that's their choice. I see others learning and moving forward. Sometimes I see hate linger long after it's healthy and hope disappear against some epic struggles to hold on.

[cocorico]

 

Has anyone changed the way they view their A since they joined LS? Tell me about it. What do you think about your A now (whether in or out of it)?

 

My A has been over for years although the R is stronger than ever. My views have changed over time - not in a repentant way that fills me with self-loathing or remorse, but in a more nuanced way of greater insight.

 

From my own A, I learned the following:

• That As can be incredible empowering, if done "right";
  
• That As can lead to True Love, and happy outcomes for the participants;
  
• That some Ms are just toxic and don't deserve to live;
  
• That, if treated with respect and included in decisions about their futures, kids can be empowered by re-constructed families;
  
• That public hysteria about As is often overstated. Many people simply don't care, either way;
  
• That some people view others as property, and simply can't get beyond that;
  
• Hat love can be real, that people can forge bonds that allow them to grow together instead of growing apart, and that sometimes that is worth fighting for.
  

 

From reading about some other stories here and elsewhere, I have learned:

• That in some places, As are a source of shame or hostility;
  
• That some people care very deeply about other people's business;
  
• That some people cede too much power in Rs - whether those are As, Ms or dating Rs;
  
• That there are some truly toxic people in the world thAt do awful things under the guise of a R (whether a M, an A, or any other kind of R);
  
• That some people can only feel good about the,selves by feeling bad about themselves;
  
• That some people get hurt so badly, they carry that forever.
  

 

My A brought me the most wonderful man, the most wonderful R and the most wonderful life. I only wish everyone could be so lucky!

[findingnemo]

I came here many years after my xH cheated on me and a few years after I ended an A with DMM. I learned a whole lot about reconciliation. I was always one who said you cheat on me and it's over, and when xH did cheat on me it was over. I gave reconciling about 5 minutes worth of thought and then that was that. It was before the time of the internet and being able to share things and look at stats from a myriad of places.

 

I think I learned I'm very happy at the choice I made about leaving my xH. I loved him dearly and I was crushed but I never deflected the blame. It was him. He cheated and no other fact mattered. I see so many rationalizations that there were 2 involved and I can see where that almost has to be a coping mechanism to accept it all. How do you accept that the 1 person who was to protect you above all else didn't. They lied to you every second for years and then consciously put the knife in and twisted. I've always said I don't believe my xH cheated on his W (who was OW) but I knew I couldn't have ever trusted him again.

 

I also learned that my A was unique. I remember saying in here that I never fell out of love with MM and also that leaving was the best thing I did for myself. He made his choices and I made mine. Through it all I never doubted his love for me nor mind for him.

 

I've learned a lot about how I post many things. I always spoke up in infidelity forum about how I wouldn't R because I thought it was a point of view not too many people took but after some nasty PMs and a few comments I stopped. That point of view wasn't welcome so I tend to not say a whole lot now. There are a few posters that post that same type of way but they also attack OW on a regular basis so I figure they're looked a little differently than I was.

 

I always identified more with the role of OW for some reason. Maybe it was the more recent of the 2 situations. Maybe it was the way OW are often talked at here rather than talked to. I'm one to champion the underdog.

 

I think I've mellowed and I walk away from some of the bitchiness that goes on rather than try and get involved.

 

I see some of the people posting in here who I've been reading for years now. I see some people stuck in the mud and know now they'll be where they are forever and that's their choice. I see others learning and moving forward. Sometimes I see hate linger long after it's healthy and hope disappear against some epic struggles to hold on.

 

Hi Summer Breeze,

 

Yes, sometimes I defend the poster under "attack". Reading the Infidelity Forum, I have seen a lot BS' under attack too. They are called weak, told their WS is definitely not remorseful, etc. It has turned out they were right to trust WS and wrong. There are cases in the OM/OW forum where the story is so crazy, it is obvious that the OP must get out.

 

Regarding "mean" posts, the ones I find annoying are those where a poster tells someone that they are not going to listen and therefore theirs is a gone case. This may be true but it is unnecessary. We are meant to give support = useful advice. If the advice is given harshly, it must still be useful. If I don't have something useful to add, I simply don't post. BS' can be harsh, and so can OWs when they get defensive. I have found that while this is an anonymous site, I haven't really told "all" about my terrible M. Certain things trigger anger in me as a BW, others as a fOW. I believe this explains why some post the way they do.

 

Some As are different in that the parties actually love each other. Like you, I found love simply wasn't enough to justify the drama. Similarities abound though. WS' simply have too much to lose and tend to prefer to stay M. With regards to R after an A, I tend to prefer that option myself. But...again there's always an exception, some WS' are beyond redemption.

 

Complicated stuff, relationships.

[findingnemo]

My A has been over for years although the R is stronger than ever. My views have changed over time - not in a repentant way that fills me with self-loathing or remorse, but in a more nuanced way of greater insight.

 

From my own A, I learned the following:

• That As can be incredible empowering, if done "right";
  
• That As can lead to True Love, and happy outcomes for the participants;
  
• That some Ms are just toxic and don't deserve to live;
  
• That, if treated with respect and included in decisions about their futures, kids can be empowered by re-constructed families;
  
• That public hysteria about As is often overstated. Many people simply don't care, either way;
  
• That some people view others as property, and simply can't get beyond that;
  
• Hat love can be real, that people can forge bonds that allow them to grow together instead of growing apart, and that sometimes that is worth fighting for.
  

 

From reading about some other stories here and elsewhere, I have learned:

• That in some places, As are a source of shame or hostility;
  
• That some people care very deeply about other people's business;
  
• That some people cede too much power in Rs - whether those are As, Ms or dating Rs;
  
• That there are some truly toxic people in the world thAt do awful things under the guise of a R (whether a M, an A, or any other kind of R);
  
• That some people can only feel good about the,selves by feeling bad about themselves;
  
• That some people get hurt so badly, they carry that forever.
  

 

My A brought me the most wonderful man, the most wonderful R and the most wonderful life. I only wish everyone could be so lucky!

 

Those are great lessons and as you say, apply to Rs in general. I'm glad yours worked out.

 

I do think it is important that new comers see all possibilities. An OM posted that reading the stories here contributed to a d-day with MW because of mistrust on the part of OM, I think. We must all try to understand our situations based on our circumstances. It is good to know how BS' operate in general with the lies, trickle truth, etc. However, it is also good to know that perhaps one's MP is ready to get out of the M.

[Got it]

Pick your battles wisely and figure out what hills you are willing to die on. :p:laugh:

 

And this is holding true for marriage and affairs.

[beyond]

To trust my gut instinct - always.

 

To be proud of who I am and what my boundaries are and not keep second guessing myself. (ex mm mocked my 'stupid morals' when I wouldn't sleep with him).

 

To realise that people can change from who they were or who you thought they were.

 

That love shouldn't feel secret/dirty/second best.

[tinker683]

fOM here...

 

1) That words without actions are meaningless

 

2) That just because you may not like the options you have doesn't mean you have no options

 

3) I learned a lot about the importance of trust, boundaries, and commitment.

 

4) That I never, ever again want to be in a relationship like this again, not only for my sake but for the sake of everyone I disappointed/hurt/or let down.

 

I'm sure there is more but this is all I got now

[BrokenPrincess]

Aside from the A education, I found out that I can genuinely care about people I've never met or even know their names.

[MissBee]

There's a thread where the OP feels under attack at some point and wonders whether she will one day be perfect like some posters who are critical of her situation. It made me go back and look at my old threads.

 

We are not perfect. I came here broken after years of pretending to hold it together. Here I stated exactly what I thought and while I'm ashamed reading some of it, I know that discussing things helped me analyze the situation better. There is a big difference in my posts now and an even bigger one in my thinking. I am honestly shocked at some of the things I said. Was that me? Did I really believe what I wrote? Yes, I did. That was me when I got here. Me at my lowest, a true reflection of my inner thoughts. Imperfect but real.

 

Has anyone changed the way they view their A since they joined LS? Tell me about it. What do you think about your A now (whether in or out of it)?

 

I came here when I was already out of it...but even still some of my views did change. Not necessarily because of LS, but just within my actual life as I experienced and thought about things and reflected. Some stuff that I was really angry about before, I came to understand and have peace about and then on the flip side, other things which I at the time didn't find to be problematic, as I have gained more awareness, I'm like wow...that was actually a VERY messed up thing! How did I allow it???

 

I was cleaning out my inbox some months ago and got caught up reading old emails from me to my exAP and other exes, and indeed, some stuff was like WTF??? Who wrote that?! Others I can still relate to now and they still make sense and are still how I feel and others, I'm like wow, this was brilliant! I had more insight than I thought...I clearly expressed awareness although I didn't act on it.

 

Sometimes when I read perspectives of current OW, I can't relate. I think back to my A, but even then didn't think/feel as they do. Yet, I'm also aware that memory isn't perfect and changes throughout time. So sometimes I'm like, while I don't think I held some attitudes, maybe I did but can no longer remember and can't predict how exactly I would have expressed myself then. I do often wonder how I would have posted if I were here while in the midst of the A.

[latergater]

I came here when I was already out of it...but even still some of my views did change. Not necessarily because of LS, but just within my actual life as I experienced and thought about things and reflected. Some stuff that I was really angry about before, I came to understand and have peace about and then on the flip side, other things which I at the time didn't find to be problematic, as I have gained more awareness, I'm like wow...that was actually a VERY messed up thing! How did I allow it???

 

I was cleaning out my inbox some months ago and got caught up reading old emails from me to my exAP and other exes, and indeed, some stuff was like WTF??? Who wrote that?! Others I can still relate to now and they still make sense and are still how I feel and others, I'm like wow, this was brilliant! I had more insight than I thought...I clearly expressed awareness although I didn't act on it.

 

Sometimes when I read perspectives of current OW, I can't relate. I think back to my A, but even then didn't think/feel as they do. Yet, I'm also aware that memory isn't perfect and changes throughout time. So sometimes I'm like, while I don't think I held some attitudes, maybe I did but can no longer remember and can't predict how exactly I would have expressed myself then. I do often wonder how I would have posted if I were here while in the midst of the A.

 

 

I will never mistake someone's job title and/or accomplishments for strong morals, integrity, and character. Character is proven over time -- through actions. I am a bit more jaded although less naive. I hold myself accountable for the role I played in this drama so i feel blessed to have escaped as unharmed as I did - I could have ended up in a far worse situation (healthwise and other). I will be ready for him the next time around (if there is one) and won't walk .. but will RUN for the door.

[findingnemo]

Sometimes I see people comment about remorseful fOWs saying that it is as if this forum accepts those more than the others who are happy in their As. I hope this isn't the case.

 

In an old thread, I wrote a letter to the BW. The letter itself isn't the most important indicator of my feelings at the time. Obviously I was angry at everybody. My main problem was that I felt that by choosing to do the "right" thing - ending the A, moving on and getting M - I had effectively chosen to put others first. On the outside, it looked good. I could for a long time claim to be "good" again. But I was dying!!! I was in so much pain that I stated the following:

 

4. Be good, be moral. That's the ideal, right? Well, being good is killing me. Being moral is making me sick. I am a person of action - when there is a problem, I act. Why didn't I just act when he got married? I couldn't because I believed it to be immoral. That was then, what about now? Why can't I just act? Morality is the problem here, it's breaking my heart - literally. Right now, morality and self-betrayal mean pretty much the same thing to me. In my life's quest to be fair to others, I'm betraying myself. I'm suppressing my needs for what? The greater good?

 

Here's the thread:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/270288-my-mm-his-w-my-ugly-truth

 

Of all the things I said, most of which were on the emotional side, ^^^ this was the crux of the matter. And you know what? Much as I've learned a lot, this sentiment is still relevant. I've suppressed it and haven't consciously thought this way in a while. But reading it made me realize I still, deep down, feel this way. The above explains why I'm still here, on LS. I have yet to resolve this paradox in my heart over 8 years later. Sometimes I wish I could turn back time and just erase the A. Can I learn how to do that?