To the lonely fed up single men - a woman's perspective on the same issues...

[PhoenixRysing]

I keep reading posts from the number of men who have never had a girlfriend or who believe they will never find love. Conversely, whenever women post here that are having a hard time, the invariable argument is to compare the number of desperate male posts to the number of desperate female posts and thus to draw the conclusion that women have an easier time in the dating world and should not complain since they can get laid any time they want.

 

I am here to tell you two things, one that is completely ridiculous, and two, that it is in most cases true. I want to shed a little light on what I think might be going on.

 

I have spent a lot of time being both incredibly admired and incredibly lonely. In my lifetime I have never had a man pursue me or ask me on a date. I have always been the initiator. Contrast that to the fact that most people in my life have in some way, shape, or form told me I was attractive. The argument therefore goes that men are intimidated by me and thus do not ask me out. Heard that one more times than I count – “You are intelligent, strong, beautiful, sexy, and successful – that is scary to men.” In my head, I call bull every time and finally I decided to take it out of my head and into reality. I asked my friends just to be truthful with me – tell me I am hideous or stink, or whatever it is that is proving a man repellant. To that, they invariably repeat, “You are intelligent, strong, beautiful, sexy, and successful – that is scary to men.”

 

The funny thing is, it really doesn’t make a darned bit of difference. I could be stinky, disgusting, and hideous, or I could be gorgeous, awesome, and intimidating. The net effect to me is the same. I am alone. I will readily admit before I am asked, that yes – I can get laid. And I have. When the loneliness is too much and I am craving human touch to feel like I even exist, there are any number of men willing to step in and give me an evening of…human touch. Some of them have even mastered making it feel meaningful despite their intent to go home and forget I ever existed until the next time I am so desperate that any human contact will do…and I call.

 

So why am I posting? Because many of you think this is proof that women have it easier than you. I want you to know that there are women like me that don’t post because you think this. Instead, we sit and internalize. We wonder why if we are supposed to have it so easy there is no one there. We wonder if this means we are defective and why we don’t experience the life so many assume we have.

 

And we also know that if we post our desperation and despair we will either be called out by some of the guys here who think we should be happy because we can get laid, or even more painful – demonized by the stronger better versions of ourselves that post here telling us to suck it up and say “Next” when the men we want don’t want us back.

 

Honestly, I wish I was that woman. I wish I had the strength of character that several of the strong female posters here have to not let the constant loneliness tear me apart. Or at least that I possessed the ability to enjoy a one night stand as so many men seem to think would make it all better. As it stands, I spend my life devoid of intimate male contact until the pain of being alone trumps the inevitable pain I know I will experience when my lover for the night decides never to call me again. Here me – I do actually know that will happen – I am not stupid or deluded by the players. I know each time I engage in "sex with the ex" that it will not change a damned thing about him not wanting me as anything more than a booty call. So when I do call, it is because the pain of loneliness in the present moment has overcome the pain of what I know the next day will bring.

 

So why am I posting? I guess I just hoped it would finally dawn on some of the men here that being a single woman is not a cake walk - that we are lonely and hurting and desperate. Yes, I said it. I admit it. I am desperate…and afraid. This is what drives me to do the things you all call stupid and silly. Unfortunately, each time I give in to the pain for momentary surcease, I am simply reminded that I am and will only ever be - a phuk. I am also posting for the other women who might feel as I do, that they must be broken or worthless because no one seems to want to love them...and are too afraid to admit that frankly, they do need it to feel complete. We do need to be held, and cherished, and adored but somehow our society has warped this into embarrassment and shame.

 

I am standing up and confessing, I am not immune to the desire and the need for connection - connection with a man.

 

I mentioned earlier that I had as of late been on a mission to understand why I was not loved or chased, even though I do get admired. I actually did finally get my answer. It came in the form of a candid friend/lover when I asked him directly to tell me why I wasn’t loved or apparently why I could never be loved. To his credit, as uncomfortable as it might have been for him, he looked me dead in the eyes and finally told me the truth, a truth so many others have danced around and in doing so, confirmed a thought I had begun to form. I am, as I stand today, actually unlovable.

 

All my life I have been taught to be strong, to be confident, and to succeed in a man’s world and how to not bend in the face of adversity so that I could do so. And truly – I am that...and I have succeeded in a career dominated by the boys club. Unfortunately, the very traits that have made me successful have also doomed me to a lifetime without love. My friend/lover told me that it is evident to all the men in my circle that I have a “sword and shield” at the ready at all times – and while they respect it, admire it, and yield to it, they will not love it.

 

In other words, I am, for all intents and purposes, a man. Since I am attractive and by appearance female, they can get past this long enough to sleep with me, but they will never be inspired to be with me, to champion me, to love me...as that, my sword and shield will handle without them.

 

Meanwhile, after periods of celibacy and no human touch, I turn in desperation to a single night. A night that yes I can have with many or perhaps any of them. A night that provides a momentary salve to the pain of loneliness but then adds molten silver to the sword and shield I will inevitably carry the next day.

 

I guess my point to my single brethren is – never assume. Never assume the single (even if hot) girl is not desperate. Never assume that she dates continuously and simply picks and chooses between the men throwing themselves at her feet. For every assumption you make, I guarantee there is at least one counterpoint in the form of a woman like me. One who feels the loneliness you feel and doesn’t post for fear of being picked apart – either because she can “at least get laid” or because she knows her sistren will tell her “ to buck up and not need a man for happiness” – which when done, simply adds to the self-perpetuating shield that causes her to never have the love for which she actually yearns.

 

I am tired of being quiet. I am tired of being misunderstood. I am tired of not admitting that I need to be seen, to be loved, to be cherished. I am tired of living a life where I am lauded for my strength and in parallel missing out on the one thing I want most. All of my matched up girlfriends tell me how great they think I am and wish they had my strength. Then they go home to the men that adore them and I go home to my dog and a computer screen. So yes, I can get laid, and yes I am just as desperate as the men here that can’t. So we have come full circle. Assumptions about the easy life of at least one single woman are both completely true, and completely ridiculous.

Edited May 26, 2013 by PhoenixRysing

[PhoenixRysing]

Men and women play by a different set of rules. If a guy sleeps with lots of girls he's a stud, if a girl does the same she's a slut. Most guys can't be studs though.

 

Some red flags I'd have about getting into a relationship with you are you sleep with ex's and friends. You say things like boys club, and mans world. You think you're like a man.

 

I don't disagree with you at all. In fact, that is the crux of the issue. I have to think, act, and be like a man to be successful in my career. All of that is against me in the world of love that men have for women. And yes, when the pain of being alone is too much - I turn to the familiar for one night of human contact.

 

I am admitting my fallibility. Even with my "strength" I need to feel wanted on occasion. I don't do it often or without thought, but when I need touch, when I need to finally feel the presence of another human in my life, I find that friends and former lovers are a slightly better option for me than one night stands.

 

Interesting, that I feel the need to defend my choices even now and to point out that I know I am not alone in this based on the other posts I have read here. Others take different paths to feel wanted or needed for even just a moment...and still others are seemingly strong enough to be OK without it. I recognize what it is about me (your red flags are my symptoms) that perpetuates this cycle and I simply ask that others understand that what we perceive as easy, is not always so.

[MsSmurf]

Thank you for sharing this. You've brought up a lot of excellent points that are true of many women. It is also nice to know that another gal has made some of the same observations regarding the posts on this site. Sometimes I read the threads and I wonder why so many posters think that "getting laid" is all that matters and will fix everything? "Getting laid" is not a loving relationship and often doesn't lead to one. Then I wonder why other posters seem to think that there's something wrong with wanting a loving relationship and are constantly encouraging others not to bother.

[PhoenixRysing]

Thank you for sharing this. You've brought up a lot of excellent points that are true of many women. It is also nice to know that another gal has made some of the same observations regarding the posts on this site. Sometimes I read the threads and I wonder why so many posters think that "getting laid" is all that matters and will fix everything? "Getting laid" is not a loving relationship and often doesn't lead to one. Then I wonder why other posters seem to think that there's something wrong with wanting a loving relationship and are constantly encouraging others not to bother.

 

And thank you for hearing me. I am not sure it is evident in what I posted, but I am not looking to prove who has it worse. I laying my own personal struggle out there for the world to see in hopes that we can all start to really understand both sides of the coin. My story is only one woman's, I am sure some can relate to parts of it and not others, and I am equally sure that others will think I am trying to "stir the pot". I am not.

 

This is my truth. Raw, ugly, heartfelt, sincere...all of it.

 

I am flawed, I do silly things, I am hurt, I create my own self-fulfilling prophecy. And finally...I am human. I am not a man trying to screw someone, or a woman willing to let herself be screwed - but a person - who desperately wants connection and love and recognizes the things I am doing that keep me from what I really want.

[Woggle]

I hope you find what you are looking for some day. Women like you deep down tend to be the most loyal and loving once you get inside their heart.

 

I don't think that women have it easier than men in dating. There are certain issues where society has biases in favor of one or the other but things are rough these days for commitment minded people of both genders.

[insecure_girl]

Thank you for posting this... I hadn't logged in for a long time, and actually came back due to a similar issue. I completely understad you. I don't know how old you are, but I'm 24, some might say still very young, and I already feel like I'm too old and like giving up. I was in a terrible relationship for 6 years, in which I gave my everything to him, only to have him verbally abuse me, cheat on me, and somehow make me feel like it was all my fault when things ended.

 

I tried the one night stand route. It made me feel emptier and lonelier, not to mention the "slut" thing that I've been conditioned to think... I don't think women who sleep around are necessarily sluts, but I fear the judgment from others (like my ex, who condemned women who sleep around as sluts). I never actually got to sleeping around, I had a sort of friendship with benefits with a guy with whom, sadly, I ended having feelings for. Of course he didn't reciprocate. Now, I'm hung up on a guy I can't have due to distance... we did see each other like 2 months ago, went on an amazing date, had sex, etc... supposedly he has feelings for me, but since we're nothing, he's of course sleeping around, while I'm hung up on him and can't get around to having sex with someone else because I know I wouldn't enjoy it. He then comes and claims he misses me and that sex with this other girl just wasn't the same, blah, blah. Yeah, tell that to your buddies, not to me.

 

Clearly, I'm not made to have one night stands, I can't have sex for the sake of pleasure. I always look for some sort of connection, and maybe subconsciously I end up looking for someone I connect with at least intellectually. And then, if I go for it, I end up feeling empty when that connection is not mutual. And that's when I feel I fail as a woman, because apparently, I should know better and not do it, or if I do it, just suck it up and feel empowered and whatever. Men, of course, see me as weak or a slut.

 

I have never had a true one night stand with a stranger. That's just too intimidating, it feels dangerous and I'm sure I wouldn't enjoy it either.

 

Unlike you, I do get attention and guys seem interested... but it also makes me feel like $%#!. Why? Well, because no matter how sweet they try to come across, it's always apparent that they just want sex, and not ME. You can just tell by the way they interact with you: they come up with some shallow compliments (along the lines of what, supposedly, every woman wants to hear). Which is just phony... they make shallow conversation, flirt, make a few sexual jokes... if I try to engage in some more meaningful conversation, they swiftly change the subject back to sex. In short, no guy who has approached me lately is ever interested in getting to know me as a person. They don't see me as an individual with thoughts and feelings, I feel they see me as a generic woman. I feel like it could be me or anybody. It's cheapening, and what's worse, is that I'm not even "asking for it"... what I mean is, I dress appropriately, I don't flirt, I don't give off any "needy" vibes (some guys even complain I seem cold and distant)... what gives? I don't get it, but none of it is flattering.

 

It's like if you give in and have sex, you feel empty and used. If you don't, you might gt attention, but it does nothing for the ego, at least for me... like I said, it makes me feel cheap. I'm being myself, but apparently, who I am is not interesting enough to get to know as a PERSON, but rather, I'm just a body to potentially have sex with. I won't even go on about the guys who have girlfriends and try to cheat on them with me... that, actually, makes me lose faith in men as a gender. Sure there might be good guys around, but I have yet to meet any.

 

Sex is simply not the be all and end all for us... I know some women who like sleeping around, and have no negative emotional consequences from that. But they are FEW. From my group of female friends, I can only count one. The rest are more emotional and we can have all the sex we can get, and we'll still end up feeling empty and worse. In my case it's because I don't feel respected or appreciated enough, I feel cheap and generic, and yes, unlovable. I don't even feel sexy, because I've always felt ugly, and I've heard more than one guy say that when they're desperate they'll f$%k anything. So it doesn't even make me feel attractive.

 

I'm sorry to sound so negative, but it's the truth, at least for me. The original post resonated tons with my situation, especially now. I wish I could stay single forever, it'd be way easier, but sadly, I also crave human touch and emotion from time to time. It's not just guys who have an awful time.

[Pompeii]

I think the most unfortunate aspect of our post-first-wave feminist world is that we teach women to think (and eventually be) too much like men. There's always an emphasis on being aggressive, being career-minded, steamrolling other people, clawing your way to the top... Etc. Basically acting like people who have testosterone. I have found that women who are in top positions in male-dominated careers become "hard". They lose that soft, endearing femininity that makes them so attractive to many men. I guess you could say that they become "ballbusters" but that's too crass of a term imo. Most of them just loose that softness. Which I guess you touched upon quite a bit in your post.

 

By no means am I against feminism. I think that feminism did a great thing for women by allowing them to have choice. Just because you have a penis doesn't mean that you should have more options than someone who doesn't. Feminism taught us that important lesson. Yet the fallout, the consequences of feminism have been extreme. This is an unfortunate example of one of them.

 

 

Good luck to you.

[Addison312]

I love that you posted this. Thank you.

[PhoenixRysing]

Woggle and Pompeii: You're right, at least about me. I am loyal to the end and supportive to a fault. I want so badly to find a man who can see that and yet I feel disloyal to the womanhood for admitting I need it...not from family, from life around me (which I am actually happy with), and not from my dog. I need a human - of the opposite sex, to have a fulfilling partnership with to feel complete. I have a world equal to a man's from a career point of view and yet I desire to be a mother, a wife, a nurturer and to have that reciprocated by a man who is a father, a husband, and a provider. I am the epitome of feminism and the achilles heel all rolled into one.

 

Insecure_Girl and Addison: I am glad I could share something about me to at least make you feel less alone. It is an odd world we live in where we all so desire human connection that we sacrifice our humanity to create it.

[Pillow]

The better person the woman is, the more likely she is to be alone. I really do believe that. If a woman has a lot going for her, she is more likely to be alone.

[Pillow]

 

Unlike you, I do get attention and guys seem interested... but it also makes me feel like $%#!. Why? Well, because no matter how sweet they try to come across, it's always apparent that they just want sex, and not ME. You can just tell by the way they interact with you: they come up with some shallow compliments (along the lines of what, supposedly, every woman wants to hear). Which is just phony... they make shallow conversation, flirt, make a few sexual jokes... if I try to engage in some more meaningful conversation, they swiftly change the subject back to sex. In short, no guy who has approached me lately is ever interested in getting to know me as a person. They don't see me as an individual with thoughts and feelings, I feel they see me as a generic woman. I feel like it could be me or anybody. It's cheapening, and what's worse, is that I'm not even "asking for it"... what I mean is, I dress appropriately, I don't flirt, I don't give off any "needy" vibes (some guys even complain I seem cold and distant)... what gives? I don't get it, but none of it is flattering.

 

It's like if you give in and have sex, you feel empty and used. If you don't, you might gt attention, but it does nothing for the ego, at least for me... like I said, it makes me feel cheap. I'm being myself, but apparently, who I am is not interesting enough to get to know as a PERSON, but rather, I'm just a body to potentially have sex with. I won't even go on about the guys who have girlfriends and try to cheat on them with me... that, actually, makes me lose faith in men as a gender. Sure there might be good guys around, but I have yet to meet any.

 

Sex is simply not the be all and end all for us... I know some women who like sleeping around, and have no negative emotional consequences from that. But they are FEW. From my group of female friends, I can only count one. The rest are more emotional and we can have all the sex we can get, and we'll still end up feeling empty and worse. In my case it's because I don't feel respected or appreciated enough, I feel cheap and generic, and yes, unlovable. I don't even feel sexy, because I've always felt ugly, and I've heard more than one guy say that when they're desperate they'll f$%k anything. So it doesn't even make me feel attractive.

 

I'm sorry to sound so negative, but it's the truth, at least for me. The original post resonated tons with my situation, especially now. I wish I could stay single forever, it'd be way easier, but sadly, I also crave human touch and emotion from time to time. It's not just guys who have an awful time.

 

It's true. Sexual objectification is a real thing.

[PhoenixRysing]

I can't have sex for the sake of pleasure. I always look for some sort of connection, and maybe subconsciously I end up looking for someone I connect with at least intellectually. And then, if I go for it, I end up feeling empty when that connection is not mutual. And that's when I feel I fail as a woman, because apparently, I should know better and not do it, or if I do it, just suck it up and feel empowered and whatever. Men, of course, see me as weak or a slut.

 

It's like if you give in and have sex, you feel empty and used. If you don't, you might gt attention, but it does nothing for the ego, at least for me... like I said, it makes me feel cheap. I'm being myself, but apparently, who I am is not interesting enough to get to know as a PERSON, but rather, I'm just a body to potentially have sex with. I won't even go on about the guys who have girlfriends and try to cheat on them with me... that, actually, makes me lose faith in men as a gender. Sure there might be good guys around, but I have yet to meet any.

 

I'm sorry to sound so negative, but it's the truth, at least for me. The original post resonated tons with my situation, especially now. I wish I could stay single forever, it'd be way easier, but sadly, I also crave human touch and emotion from time to time. It's not just guys who have an awful time.

 

First Insecure_Girl let me apologize for only partially quoting your post. I wanted to pull out and highlight that pieces that most strongly resonated with me.

 

I completely understand you on the concept of either choosing to succumb to your personal desire for connection or feeling you are betraying the womanhood for actually acting upon it. We are all human, we all desire that personal, intimate, and yes physical connection with others. Yet when we as women release ourselves to it we are either named as sluts by the men we are with, dehumanized by the women who "would never do it", or we give ourselves a harder time than them all by beating ourselves up for acknowledging a very basic human need.

 

Then, in trying to form that connection, we realize that many men are capable of sex without it...and what we saw as chemistry and connection, they saw as a "good night" on the prowl...nothing more.

 

The answer appears at first blush to be to give up (and accept that men will never want anything more from us and be celibate and deny our own needs for contact) or give in (and be called a slut in our own minds or outright by both male and female). At the root of it, we just want to keep hope that one day someone will see more in us, as we have seen in them, and that it will all make sense.

 

It is a catch 22 for all involved and exactly what I wanted to bring light to in this conversation. Many of us are longing for connection. We love and biologically need human contact. But what we are doing to each other with our assumptions, our games, and our societal norms (what is masculine and what is feminine - slut or player, needy or perpetuating the fade, virginal or passionate) polarizes us and separates us from our basic humanity and thus the connection we all so desire.

 

I am genuinely asking that we all think about it, that we exhibit compassion for each other and what norms we have internalized, and that we think before we assume. What are all sides to the story? If we know them, perhaps we can have a better understanding for each other and a better chance of connection for us all.

Edited May 26, 2013 by PhoenixRysing

[Kamille]

My friend/lover told me that it is evident to all the men in my circle that I have a “sword and shield” at the ready at all times – and while they respect it, admire it, and yield to it, they will not love it.

 

Funny, I didn't understand the "sword and shield" to mean that you were "too much like a man". I understand it to mean that you are perhaps someone who goes on the offensive or puts up a wall when she feels vulnerable. You would, in other words, keep men out or expect them to work through your barriers.

 

I used to be like that - and yes men found it hard to date me. No one, men or women, likes to feel like their partner is out to get them/ wants to compete with them/ refuses to be vulnerable around them.

[PhoenixRysing]

Funny, I didn't understand the "sword and shield" to mean that you were "too much like a man". I understand it to mean that you are perhaps someone who goes on the offensive or puts up a wall when she feels vulnerable. You would, in other words, keep men out or expect them to work through your barriers.

 

I used to be like that - and yes men found it hard to date me. No one, men or women, likes to feel like their partner is out to get them/ wants to compete with them/ refuses to be vulnerable around them.

 

Kamille,

 

That is a fair point. I actually took it both ways. Since this man is someone I know from work and observes me daily in my interactions with others and he is also someone I had "intimate" encounters with. I gathered that he meant it both ways as well.

 

I know that I posted this about my own experiences, and this could easily get into a dissection of me (and trust me we would be here a while) what I really wanted to point out is that our lives, both male and female, are fraught with difficulty. When we satisfy one commandment, we dismantle the offense of another.

 

I would love to simply let down my walls, as I have done here today by revealing my true desires but when I do I must forsake one side of my life for another.

 

Even more simply, I wanted the single men here to understand that a lot of what they are experiencing is not unique to them. That we all have concerns, desires, hopes, and dreams.

 

What is really interesting to me is how many folks have either private messaged me to share my plight or liked my posts and how many have tried to help me see my own very personal issues that are unique to me. Both are appreciated and accepted.

 

What I wanted was to show how similar we are (desire for human connection and missing out on it), and in doing so, I have had help understanding issues that are relatively unique to me. Not a bad outcome.

[subversive]

I firmly believe that there is at least one person for just about everyone. No matter how ugly, how crazy, how intimidating. It doesn't mean that person will show up when you want them. It's not easy. The ones that you think you want end up looking pretty piss-poor next to the ones that end up truly loving you. Don't give up.

[Woggle]

Woggle and Pompeii: You're right, at least about me. I am loyal to the end and supportive to a fault. I want so badly to find a man who can see that and yet I feel disloyal to the womanhood for admitting I need it...not from family, from life around me (which I am actually happy with), and not from my dog. I need a human - of the opposite sex, to have a fulfilling partnership with to feel complete. I have a world equal to a man's from a career point of view and yet I desire to be a mother, a wife, a nurturer and to have that reciprocated by a man who is a father, a husband, and a provider. I am the epitome of feminism and the achilles heel all rolled into one.

 

Insecure_Girl and Addison: I am glad I could share something about me to at least make you feel less alone. It is an odd world we live in where we all so desire human connection that we sacrifice our humanity to create it.

 

It makes you human and not disloyal. Everybody should be able to stand on their own but there is nothing wrong with preferring not to. Not knocking happily single people but it is human nature for people to want love. There is nothing wrong with wanting both and plenty of women achieve it. There are big time CEOs who have happy marriages and great careers.

[somedude81]

In other words, I am, for all intents and purposes, a man. Since I am attractive and by appearance female, they can get past this long enough to sleep with me, but they will never be inspired to be with me, to champion me, to love me...as that, my sword and shield will handle without them.

You already know what you have to do.

 

I'm not going to go as far as to say that you have chosen to live the life you have now, but your decisions have had an impact. You have consciously "turned into a man."

 

Regarding the number of men who have never had a GF or been in love, that was because of circumstances beyond their control. Unless a man really knows what he is doing, dating is all about luck. And even then knowing how to play the game is something that a man can luck into. Being good looking and/or tall is another aspect of luck as one can't pick their parents.

 

At 31 years old, I may have finally been lucky enough to find a girl that likes me and even then there is a huge chance nothing can happen. All I can do is try my best and hope things work out. Beyond taking the risk, none of my actions in life have mattered at all in regards to women.

[PhoenixRysing]

You already know what you have to do.

 

I'm not going to go as far as to say that you have chosen to live the life you have now, but your decisions have had an impact. You have consciously "turned into a man."

 

Regarding the number of men who have never had a GF or been in love, that was because of circumstances beyond their control. Unless a man really knows what he is doing, dating is all about luck. And even then knowing how to play the game is something that a man can luck into. Being good looking and/or tall is another aspect of luck as one can't pick their parents.

 

At 31 years old, I may have finally been lucky enough to find a girl that likes me and even then there is a huge chance nothing can happen. All I can do is try my best and hope things work out. Beyond taking the risk, none of my actions in life have mattered at all in regards to women.

 

Yes, if I am to go based on my past experiences, I know what I have to do. I have to either completely forsake who I am and what I have achieved, or spend a lifetime without love and being scorned by myself and/or others for the moments of "intimacy" that I chose to accept (knowing they are only moments).

 

That is exactly the point. A few fellows on here that have had no luck with women seem resist that there is something they are choosing to do (being shy, the "nice guy", or never approaching, etc.) that is in the way of their success and want women as a whole to change and embrace their flaws. "Women should love nice guys!!!!" they chant in unison. Women should see past my shy facade and quiet demeanor! That works for them about as well as me wanting a man to see past the sword and shield works for me.

 

I recognize the futility in this mentality for myself. I can either accept that men as whole do not view me as "loveable" and change myself and my life accordingly (if that is even possible at this stage), or I can rage against the system that made my reality same as it made yours (which just serves to make me angry in addition to being lonely), or I can accept that my life may well never include the other "half of me" - the side of me that men can't seem to reach (or even want to) and give up my hopes of love and family.

 

In my case, I have made no decisions either way, nor am I complaining about the unfairness of it - it simply is. I am just pointing out the possibility of another side for those who might think that loneliness and desperation for intimate, mental and physical connection are solely the purview of one gender (perhaps provide some insight into the "silly" choices women make along the way). I also hoped to share a bit of me with women who like me are struggling with these very choices and feel confounded by the idea of giving up the life and self they have made in order to gain the love that should be about acceptance of that very self.

Edited May 26, 2013 by PhoenixRysing

[tbf]

PR, I get accused of thinking like a man quite often. But it doesn't impact on dating.

 

The commonality of men that I dated in the past were that they were high confidence, white collar men where they were the aggressors.

 

Is it possible that you're targeting the wrong audience?

[PhoenixRysing]

PR, I get accused of thinking like a man quite often. But it doesn't impact on dating.

 

The commonality of men that I dated in the past were that they were high confidence, white collar men where they were the aggressors.

 

Is it possible that you're targeting the wrong audience?

 

Perhaps I have gone beyond your "thinking" like a man and into achieving becoming one (save my lady parts)? When I say men have never been the aggressors...I actually mean never.This has always been true for me, even as a "wee lass". And the friend/lover I mentioned is exactly in the demographic audience you described. It is actually him that made me realize just how far from what I want I am. I had earlier accepted my other friends interpretations, that men were simply intimidated - and tried to adhere to their advice. Effectively they said my standards were too low and that the men I had dated were afraid they could not live up to me. To fix this, they suggested that I only date men as good looking, successful, or intelligent as I am. Difficult when no one asks you out at all, but I digress. The friend/lover that clued me into the sword and shield bit is all that and on top of that he has incredible insight into human psyche. If he can't see past it - trust me no one can. It is my problem to fix or accept.

 

Another interesting bit, I know my problem with the opposite sex and why I cannot inspire love and I imagine that other women like me face the same. Still even more than that, many of us feel the desperation and dashed hopes for love when each time we find only sex. I hear that pain in lot of the other posts here.

 

Hold out everyone tells us (to know a man's true intentions) - but this ignores the fact that we are humans too, we also want to be touched (it also ignores the men who will court you for weeks and months for that one night). If we "keep our legs closed", we are prudes and in some cases denying our own lizard brains or craving for intimate contact (or not showing a man we are interested enough). If we succumb, we are whores, left feeling worse than before after a one night stand that never calls, or silly for letting our hormones attach us to yet another man that just saw us a quick romp. For me the choice has become glaringly obvious, wait/hold out indefinitely for the man who loves me (he's not coming), or take what I can get from an intimate encounter when the loneliness is too much.

 

There are a multitude of reasons we are all confused and the mixed messages abound.

 

I am beyond the point of changing my audience or trying new ways to meet men (trust me, I have tried pretty much everything with the same result), I now know and understand why I am personally not loveable, and further have begun to accept that I likely will not ever be. Again, I am not posting to try to rage against the machine or change men's perception of me. I simply hoped that some of the struggling perpetually single men can understand that the abundance of sexual opportunity does not equate to an easier time in the matters of love; to wit, getting laid does not equal getting loved.

Edited May 27, 2013 by PhoenixRysing

[Leeway Harris]

I also would like to thank you for posting this. I wish more people would have the understanding that you seem to display here.

 

I don't believe that one gender is necessarily at a huge disadvantage in dating and/or finding relationships. I agree with what Woggle said: "I don't think that women have it easier than men in dating. There are certain issues where society has biases in favor of one or the other but things are rough these days for commitment minded people of both genders. "

 

One thing I would ask you, however, is this: To what extent do you believe your own choices hold you back from finding love? For example, from what pool are you choosing your potential partners? Are you absolutely sure there aren't any men around you who are looking for a relationship AND can appreciate your qualities without being intimidated by them?

 

Because sometimes people have very rigid ideas about what a relationship should look like, or what they NEED in a potential partner. And sometimes these ideas prevent them from recognizing opportunities that are right in front of them.

 

I'm 100% sure you're not "unloveable" One hundred percent. My advice would be to examine your habits, impressions, preferences, and decide which ones are holding you back. Then let go of all that which is not serving you. Open yourself up. Make yourself vulnerable (as you have done here, very impressively, for which I congratulate you). Trust. I know for a fact that there are men who can admire you for your drive and ambition, and who would also be touched and honored to be allowed into the soft spots in your heart.

[PhoenixRysing]

I also would like to thank you for posting this. I wish more people would have the understanding that you seem to display here.

 

I don't believe that one gender is necessarily at a huge disadvantage in dating and/or finding relationships. I agree with what Woggle said: "I don't think that women have it easier than men in dating. There are certain issues where society has biases in favor of one or the other but things are rough these days for commitment minded people of both genders. "

 

One thing I would ask you, however, is this: To what extent do you believe your own choices hold you back from finding love? For example, from what pool are you choosing your potential partners? Are you absolutely sure there aren't any men around you who are looking for a relationship AND can appreciate your qualities without being intimidated by them?

 

Because sometimes people have very rigid ideas about what a relationship should look like, or what they NEED in a potential partner. And sometimes these ideas prevent them from recognizing opportunities that are right in front of them.

 

I'm 100% sure you're not "unloveable" One hundred percent. My advice would be to examine your habits, impressions, preferences, and decide which ones are holding you back. Then let go of all that which is not serving you. Open yourself up. Make yourself vulnerable (as you have done here, very impressively, for which I congratulate you). Trust. I know for a fact that there are men who can admire you for your drive and ambition, and who would also be touched and honored to be allowed into the soft spots in your heart.

 

Leeway, thank you for your sharing and for your optimism! I spend my life in a never-ending cycle of self-analysis looking at ways to be a better me and your advice is good. I continue to assess the parts of me that I can let go of and not lose myself. And as lovely as your vision of the world sounds, I am saddened to say that my own observations do not match.

 

To answer your question, I am not actually choosing at all as their simply is no pool of suitors to chose from. It is not hyperbole to say that men just do not approach me or find me appealing beyond friendship. The relationships I have had in the past have always been the result of me pursuing...and lately that pursuit has led me down a series of dead ends. In my zeal to find a match I have enjoyed the company of such a broad spectrum of men that your head would spin (ok that sounds bad - I mean dated, hung out with, and generally got know - not bedded ). White collar, blue collar, no collar, brown, peach, pale, and darned near translucent, hillbillies and Harvard grads, techies and teachers. I actually have found the one thing they all have in common besides the possession of a third dangly bit...a complete and utter inability to "feel" anything for me beyond friendship and admiration.

 

I am honestly not bitter. I accept that I am defined by a world that has taught me to fight hard side by side and shoulder to shoulder with men. You would be hard-pressed to find a man in my life that would not chose me for the foxhole. Similarly you would be hard-pressed to find a man period who would simply chose me. Really, I understand it. I know the lovely tender parts that are inside of me, but few men want to or can see it through the suit of armor that I wear. Interestingly, I wear it proudly and would not want a man who could not admire my sword and shield because then he would not truly be loving me - the warrior and the lady.

 

While I will continue to keep my mind and heart open should such a rare man appear, and I will continue to seek ways to open myself further, I am no longer deluding myself with the belief that what I am is what a typical man wants or that I can change much more of who I am without letting go of the core of me - a core that I am fiercely proud of it...that is built on struggle and subsequent victory. Letting that mantle down, would mean an end to me, not just an end to my career. I have to accept as somedude indicated that this choice will limit me in my search for love...and I do. But if the choice is between letting go of my core and letting go of my fantasy - then there really is no choice at all.

 

To answer your other question, no I am not 100% sure (statistics means never having to say your certain right?) but I am pretty close to it. And I have no real definition of what a relationship should be. I recognized a while back, that being a bit of an odd bird myself meant that I needed to be pretty open to new ideas and definitions of what love would mean in my life. I have certain ideas, being open to each other, being supportive, learning what makes the other tick, trying to find small ways to remind each other that we are seen as unique individuals, passion and sexy time, a shared view of finance and child rearing - but how that actually get's done - I am open to two unique individuals (me and the mythical him) figuring out the details.

Edited May 27, 2013 by PhoenixRysing

[USMCHokie]

I might have missed this in one of the OP's posts, but it seemed to have been largely ignored. OP, how physically attractive do you think you are. And more importantly, how physically attractive do other men think you are?

[Eternal Sunshine]

I might have missed this in one of the OP's posts, but it seemed to have been largely ignored. OP, how physically attractive do you think you are. And more importantly, how physically attractive do other men think you are?

 

You sure don't beat around the bush

[USMCHokie]

You sure don't beat around the bush

 

Yea...

 

Well there had to be a reason why OP never made any mention of it in all her startling revelations...