To the lonely fed up single men - a woman's perspective on the same issues...

[Weezy1973]

I think the similarity the OP speaks to is this: both struggling men and women (regardless of their particular struggle) begin to question their self worth. Am I as a human worthy of love? That is indeed the greatest struggle any of us can have.

 

OP I would say this: DO NOT change yourself in the hopes of finding love. NEVER change yourself. You are better off compromising on aspects of your partner than you are compromising your self.

[MsSmurf]

I think this might work to an extent if you have an arbitrary list of traits like "above 6'2"", "earns more than 150k/year" etc.

 

But when it comes to something that's as important as connection, how do you change that? Should you? I'm leaning towards no.

 

This is precisely what I was thinking and exactly why I said that advice sounded like settling. I agree that we should all be reasonable about what we seek, but at the same time settling isn't an adequate long term solution.

[USMCHokie]

I just don't see how the OP should have to change her personality. Very successful women like the Marissa Myers, Cheryl Sandburg and also politicians and celebrities manage to have long and happy marriages without giving up their ambition. In fact educated and successful women get married more often and get divorced less. It's not like it was a few decades ago when people thought a woman needed to choose between success and a relationship.

 

So it makes you wonder if something else is amiss...?

[Woggle]

So it makes you wonder if something else is amiss...?

 

I don't think that. I think for some people it can be a self fulfilling prophecy to where they believe so much that something is true that they won't allow anything else in their life. Either that or she is in an area where gender relations have not progressed much.

[Els]

I just don't see how the OP should have to change her personality. Very successful women like the Marissa Myers, Cheryl Sandburg and also politicians and celebrities manage to have long and happy marriages without giving up their ambition. In fact educated and successful women get married more often and get divorced less. It's not like it was a few decades ago when people thought a woman needed to choose between success and a relationship.

 

You don't know.

 

In fact, Sheryl Sandberg has herself published several articles/interviews in which she talks about how a woman's relationships and personal life can be very much at odds with what she needs to succeed in her career. Marissa Mayer built her empire upon a foundation of being perceived as a 'bitch' (whereas most men in similar positions do similar things, and nobody bats an eyelid), and reporters are eagerly jumping upon every controversial decision she makes as Yahoo's CEO, even though several other CEOs across the globe are making similar decisions.

[Eternal Sunshine]

OP, I am curious how are your relationships with other people. Are you close to your family? Are there friends that you feel comfortable telling absolutely anything to, even the most vulnerable, cringe-worthy parts?

[hppr]

After having read maybe three or four paragraphs of the OP.. The only difference between you and the struggling guys is that in spite of you feeling you're on the same page as these fellows, you can still engage in "the touch of another"... Be that a one night stand, or whatever you want to call it..

 

Those guys can do that too if they set their sights low enough. Not that I advocate that but I guess everyone has got to do what they've got to do.

 

As far as 'changing what you want' and 'settling' that is all an attitude problem.

 

Glass is half empty, glass is half full.

 

Then there are those who are single by choice. They'll say different but if they get dates/sex regularly but never seem to 'meet the one' despite years of trying they are single by choice.

 

Now, SOME poor souls are born butt ugly. But that doesn't mean it is impossible for them to get girlfriends/boyfriends just takes a lot more work to get past that 'UGH' reaction people have to you. I know because I used to get that reaction from people, I don't anymore, but it took about 10 years before I figured out how to dress, act, etc. No fun being fugly but it does teach you a bit about humility and the nature of other people.

[Revolver]

I just don't see how the OP should have to change her personality. Very successful women like the Marissa Myers, Cheryl Sandburg and also politicians and celebrities manage to have long and happy marriages without giving up their ambition. In fact educated and successful women get married more often and get divorced less. It's not like it was a few decades ago when people thought a woman needed to choose between success and a relationship.

 

It's because those men aren't attracted to her. I don't think it has anything to do with her career.

 

"Guys don't like me because I'm smart/my career"="Girls don't like me because I'm nice"

[Eternal Sunshine]

It's because those men aren't attracted to her. I don't think it has anything to do with her career.

 

"Guys don't like me because I'm smart/my career"="Girls don't like me because I'm nice"

 

And why are men not attracted to her? If you look around you, not every woman that is in a relationship looks like a supermodel if that's what you are getting at.

[Maleficent]

I am tired of being quiet. I am tired of being misunderstood. I am tired of not admitting that I need to be seen, to be loved, to be cherished. I am tired of living a life where I am lauded for my strength and in parallel missing out on the one thing I want most. All of my matched up girlfriends tell me how great they think I am and wish they had my strength. Then they go home to the men that adore them and I go home to my dog and a computer screen. So yes, I can get laid, and yes I am just as desperate as the men here that can’t. So we have come full circle. Assumptions about the easy life of at least one single woman are both completely true, and completely ridiculous.

 

 

I LOVE YOU!

 

Thank you for writing what so many of us are boiling up inside.

[Maleficent]

It's because those men aren't attracted to her. I don't think it has anything to do with her career.

 

"Guys don't like me because I'm smart/my career"="Girls don't like me because I'm nice"

 

good point...

[PhoenixRysing]

OP, I am curious how are your relationships with other people. Are you close to your family? Are there friends that you feel comfortable telling absolutely anything to, even the most vulnerable, cringe-worthy parts?

 

I have lots of great relationships and 2 close female friends that share the dirty with. I have 2 great male friends that I share a lot with but stop short of complete candor since the are both married and I feel certain topics are inappropriate to maintain the nature of our platonic relationships.

[PhoenixRysing]

OP, I am curious how are your relationships with other people. Are you close to your family? Are there friends that you feel comfortable telling absolutely anything to, even the most vulnerable, cringe-worthy parts?

 

It's because those men aren't attracted to her. I don't think it has anything to do with her career.

 

"Guys don't like me because I'm smart/my career"="Girls don't like me because I'm nice"

 

And why are men not attracted to her? If you look around you, not every woman that is in a relationship looks like a supermodel if that's what you are getting at.

 

good point...

 

The difference is that I am not making the claim or pitying myself as to the why - I understand it and got it straight from at least one horses mouth. The reality is that they are attracted to me in a strictly sexual sense and there is nothing about my interactions with them that makes me believe my actual looks are a problem. I do however accept that I have a personality that does not exactly inspire love or concern. Guys do like me because I am smart, and they do admire me because of my success in my career. However more than one has told me that they don't feel love or nurturing toward me and have indicated that my extreme self-sufficiency is part of the problem. This latest one was just direct about it.

 

The difference here is I am not bitter about it. I understand it. I also understand that if I want to broaden my dating options I need to change. I can do that or I can accept that there are minimal men who will feel more than admiration and respect for me.

[PhoenixRysing]

You sell yourself as this single lonely women yet you've been married before and you hide that fact deep in the thread. This is why an almost 45 year old man who's never had a relationship or sex or anything just laughs off these threads.

 

I knew you'd like her horse****.

 

This thread is so funny.

 

I am not sure why you have such an issue with me. You seem to find it difficult to imagine that my pain could be real because it is not the same as your pain. I am not selling anything. I am a lonely single woman whether my loneliness is the same as yours is irrelevant. I was married sure...but I am not anymore. That marriage has been over for 3 years officially, and 2 more years prior to that where I spent some of the loneliest times of my life sharing a house with a man who was very cruel and locked in his own world of alcoholism. Being rich at one point in your life does not change a thing if you are out of work now does it?

 

In the end, I have accepted the "why's" of my situation and what I am doing that perpetuates it.

 

Meanwhile, your aggression toward me and your unwillingness to even consider someone's pain that is different than your own provides more insight to me as to why exactly you also struggle.

 

If you really took the time to consider other people...you might find that your world open's up. As long as you continue to say that your pain is worse than others, that women who are lonely and hurting have no right to their pain because yours is a harder story, you will likely remain alone as well.

 

I can tell you, that no woman wants to be told her personal story, her personal vulnerabilities are horse****. It is men like you, who are cold and critical, while complaining that no one wants you - that make me and others like me more willing to have a one night stand with a friend than even bother trying again at a relationship. If you are the kind of man I can expect to find when I let down my walls and share my real world - can it honestly be any wonder that I carry around a sword and a shield?

[Maleficent]

Anyone else feel like singing 'poor unfortunate souls' from Little Mermaid lately?

[Els]

I am not sure why you have such an issue with me. You seem to find it difficult to imagine that my pain could be real because it is not the same as your pain. I am not selling anything. I am a lonely single woman whether my loneliness is the same as yours is irrelevant. I was married sure...but I am not anymore. That marriage has been over for 3 years officially, and 2 more years prior to that where I spent some of the loneliest times of my life sharing a house with a man who was very cruel and locked in his own world of alcoholism. Being rich at one point in your life does not change a thing if you are out of work now does it?

 

In the end, I have accepted the "why's" of my situation and what I am doing that perpetuates it.

 

Meanwhile, your aggression toward me and your unwillingness to even consider someone's pain that is different than your own provides more insight to me as to why exactly you also struggle.

 

If you really took the time to consider other people...you might find that your world open's up. As long as you continue to say that your pain is worse than others, that women who are lonely and hurting have no right to their pain because yours is a harder story, you will likely remain alone as well.

 

I can tell you, that no woman wants to be told her personal story, her personal vulnerabilities are horse****. It is men like you, who are cold and critical, while complaining that no one wants you - that make me and others like me more willing to have a one night stand with a friend than even bother trying again at a relationship. If you are the kind of man I can expect to find when I let down my walls and share my real world - can it honestly be any wonder that I carry around a sword and a shield?

 

Might want to glance at Toast's post count and his previous posts before taking all that time to respond properly to him.

 

Edit: Oh, whoops, seems like he's banned already. That was fast; great job, mods!

[Woggle]

I think another part of it is that in many cases men in this society get the message that women don't need or want us anymore since they have careers of their own. That is BS since educated and successful women actually tend to have better relationships but nobody likes to feel disposable and that their partner can take or leave them so men go where they feel needed. I am in no way saying the OP does this or has this attitude but the message that we get from media is that some see us as nothing more than disposable sperm donors.

 

The misandrists who spout actually make it harder for women to have a successful career and relationship because go where they feel needed.

[PhoenixRysing]

I think another part of it is that in many cases men in this society get the message that women don't need or want us anymore since they have careers of their own. That is BS since educated and successful women actually tend to have better relationships but nobody likes to feel disposable and that their partner can take or leave them so men go where they feel needed. I am in no way saying the OP does this or has this attitude but the message that we get from media is that some see us as nothing more than disposable sperm donors.

 

The misandrists who spout actually make it harder for women to have a successful career and relationship because go where they feel needed.

 

I agree Woggle. I have tried to emphasize the importance of the connection rather than the support with men I have dated but it has so far been to no avail. It does not seem to matter how I view it, as the message they are receiving outside of our courtship tends to invalidate my perspective. I don't need a man for a traditional role, but I do need and want one as a partner, lover, father, friend...etc.

 

I won't say that I am faultless. I do know that given my past experience and the requirements of my role at work I am likely too quick on the draw with throwing up the shield. I am working on it.

[PJKino]

Every group has its problems..im not donwplaying your or any womens struggle i just know that going 30 plus years without the touch of a women is depressing as hell and crushes your soul and ego at times..

 

As for your personality that could be a problem.i couldnt be with someone who isnt nurturing or effectionate at all and just seems apathetic to me..

[123321]

.... yes – I can get laid. And I have. When the loneliness is too much and I am craving human touch to feel like I even exist, there are any number of men willing ...

 

Take everything you said and deduct this, and you will have some beginning of an inkling of understanding what it's like for some guys.

[Maleficent]

Might want to glance at Toast's post count and his previous posts before taking all that time to respond properly to him.

 

Edit: Oh, whoops, seems like he's banned already. That was fast; great job, mods!

 

Me thinks he's back already...

[LovelyLife]

One of the most lovely posts I've read on L.S.

[galaxyman]

I keep reading posts from the number of men who have never had a girlfriend or who believe they will never find love. Conversely, whenever women post here that are having a hard time, the invariable argument is to compare the number of desperate male posts to the number of desperate female posts and thus to draw the conclusion that women have an easier time in the dating world and should not complain since they can get laid any time they want.

 

I am here to tell you two things, one that is completely ridiculous, and two, that it is in most cases true. I want to shed a little light on what I think might be going on.

 

I have spent a lot of time being both incredibly admired and incredibly lonely. In my lifetime I have never had a man pursue me or ask me on a date. I have always been the initiator. Contrast that to the fact that most people in my life have in some way, shape, or form told me I was attractive. The argument therefore goes that men are intimidated by me and thus do not ask me out. Heard that one more times than I count – “You are intelligent, strong, beautiful, sexy, and successful – that is scary to men.” In my head, I call bull every time and finally I decided to take it out of my head and into reality. I asked my friends just to be truthful with me – tell me I am hideous or stink, or whatever it is that is proving a man repellant. To that, they invariably repeat, “You are intelligent, strong, beautiful, sexy, and successful – that is scary to men.”

 

The funny thing is, it really doesn’t make a darned bit of difference. I could be stinky, disgusting, and hideous, or I could be gorgeous, awesome, and intimidating. The net effect to me is the same. I am alone. I will readily admit before I am asked, that yes – I can get laid. And I have. When the loneliness is too much and I am craving human touch to feel like I even exist, there are any number of men willing to step in and give me an evening of…human touch. Some of them have even mastered making it feel meaningful despite their intent to go home and forget I ever existed until the next time I am so desperate that any human contact will do…and I call.

 

So why am I posting? Because many of you think this is proof that women have it easier than you. I want you to know that there are women like me that don’t post because you think this. Instead, we sit and internalize. We wonder why if we are supposed to have it so easy there is no one there. We wonder if this means we are defective and why we don’t experience the life so many assume we have.

 

And we also know that if we post our desperation and despair we will either be called out by some of the guys here who think we should be happy because we can get laid, or even more painful – demonized by the stronger better versions of ourselves that post here telling us to suck it up and say “Next” when the men we want don’t want us back.

 

Honestly, I wish I was that woman. I wish I had the strength of character that several of the strong female posters here have to not let the constant loneliness tear me apart. Or at least that I possessed the ability to enjoy a one night stand as so many men seem to think would make it all better. As it stands, I spend my life devoid of intimate male contact until the pain of being alone trumps the inevitable pain I know I will experience when my lover for the night decides never to call me again. Here me – I do actually know that will happen – I am not stupid or deluded by the players. I know each time I engage in "sex with the ex" that it will not change a damned thing about him not wanting me as anything more than a booty call. So when I do call, it is because the pain of loneliness in the present moment has overcome the pain of what I know the next day will bring.

 

So why am I posting? I guess I just hoped it would finally dawn on some of the men here that being a single woman is not a cake walk - that we are lonely and hurting and desperate. Yes, I said it. I admit it. I am desperate…and afraid. This is what drives me to do the things you all call stupid and silly. Unfortunately, each time I give in to the pain for momentary surcease, I am simply reminded that I am and will only ever be - a phuk. I am also posting for the other women who might feel as I do, that they must be broken or worthless because no one seems to want to love them...and are too afraid to admit that frankly, they do need it to feel complete. We do need to be held, and cherished, and adored but somehow our society has warped this into embarrassment and shame.

 

I am standing up and confessing, I am not immune to the desire and the need for connection - connection with a man.

 

I mentioned earlier that I had as of late been on a mission to understand why I was not loved or chased, even though I do get admired. I actually did finally get my answer. It came in the form of a candid friend/lover when I asked him directly to tell me why I wasn’t loved or apparently why I could never be loved. To his credit, as uncomfortable as it might have been for him, he looked me dead in the eyes and finally told me the truth, a truth so many others have danced around and in doing so, confirmed a thought I had begun to form. I am, as I stand today, actually unlovable.

 

All my life I have been taught to be strong, to be confident, and to succeed in a man’s world and how to not bend in the face of adversity so that I could do so. And truly – I am that...and I have succeeded in a career dominated by the boys club. Unfortunately, the very traits that have made me successful have also doomed me to a lifetime without love. My friend/lover told me that it is evident to all the men in my circle that I have a “sword and shield” at the ready at all times – and while they respect it, admire it, and yield to it, they will not love it.

 

In other words, I am, for all intents and purposes, a man. Since I am attractive and by appearance female, they can get past this long enough to sleep with me, but they will never be inspired to be with me, to champion me, to love me...as that, my sword and shield will handle without them.

 

Meanwhile, after periods of celibacy and no human touch, I turn in desperation to a single night. A night that yes I can have with many or perhaps any of them. A night that provides a momentary salve to the pain of loneliness but then adds molten silver to the sword and shield I will inevitably carry the next day.

 

I guess my point to my single brethren is – never assume. Never assume the single (even if hot) girl is not desperate. Never assume that she dates continuously and simply picks and chooses between the men throwing themselves at her feet. For every assumption you make, I guarantee there is at least one counterpoint in the form of a woman like me. One who feels the loneliness you feel and doesn’t post for fear of being picked apart – either because she can “at least get laid” or because she knows her sistren will tell her “ to buck up and not need a man for happiness” – which when done, simply adds to the self-perpetuating shield that causes her to never have the love for which she actually yearns.

 

I am tired of being quiet. I am tired of being misunderstood. I am tired of not admitting that I need to be seen, to be loved, to be cherished. I am tired of living a life where I am lauded for my strength and in parallel missing out on the one thing I want most. All of my matched up girlfriends tell me how great they think I am and wish they had my strength. Then they go home to the men that adore them and I go home to my dog and a computer screen. So yes, I can get laid, and yes I am just as desperate as the men here that can’t. So we have come full circle. Assumptions about the easy life of at least one single woman are both completely true, and completely ridiculous.

 

PhoenixRysing, thank you for writing this. Your words really struck a cord in me. For what it's worth, I feel like I've gained a valuable new perspective. I'm 27 now, and it seems to me that finding this type of person that you're looking for becomes more likely the older you get. When I was younger, I felt that I'd rarely meet that "type" among the hoards of horny people without patience or care for others. At least in my experience. I really hope that you can find what you're looking for. And thanks for helping me understand your side of things.

[123321]

Females refuse to understand this.

 

They also love that clinical sterile feel they get when you call them "females".

 

 

Anyway, another thing about the original post; "you intimidate them" is a load of horse pucky. For some reason, perhaps not obvious, you are not attractive to the guys you want to attract, and it's not because you are too damn awesome.

[El Brujo]

OP, I hear loud and clear what you're saying. That's why I broke my miserliness and liked your post.

 

In a way, you and I understand the same issue from opposite perspectives, because my AvPD has been a barrier against me initiating conversation with women (believe me, a lot of shy guys PRAY women like you will notice them), but I'll tell you why you keep getting your heart broken: you need to figure out what you want first, then go and get it. You need to figure out what's attracting you to men who are intimidated by you. To me, it sounds like you have your s. together, but you're going for guys who don't... of course they find that intimidating as hell!

 

Ignore the jerks who tell you you're trying to act like a man in a woman's body. The first thing you need to do is sit down with a pencil and paper---who gives a crap if it sounds anal or not???---and make a list of what you're looking for in a man. Then figure out the best way to find men who best match your list. Believe me, they're out there, and they wake up every day hoping a woman like you will approach them.

 

Most importantly though, you need to stop wasting time and do it. Like we say in chess, if you never develop your strategy, you'll never win a championship.

Edited May 29, 2013 by El Brujo