To the lonely fed up single men - a woman's perspective on the same issues...

[ltjg45]

Now I'm sure you could send me a picture of yourself and some of the women on this site would be able to come up with a few things to make you look more attractive.

 

Until I figure out how to turn the flash off of this cell phone I'm using, this is the best picture I can take of myself for the time being.

 

Judge me for my appearance as you see fit.

[neowulf]

Just wanted to chime in and thank you for sharing your pain.

 

We all spend so much time hiding behind our walls, the outside world forgets there's anything behind them.

 

I hope that in time, you can find the love you're searching for. Perhaps, now you've mastered the art of strength, you can begin work on the truly scary path.. vulnerability.

[landshark]

Ok, Phoenix, let me give it to you from a guy who loves women like you and I'll tell you why. A couple of Father's Days ago, I wrote my Dad about the five things he taught me. Number two was that he always acknowledged that my Mom was smarter than him and that gave me a profound respect for women who were intelligent because I could learn from them. However, over the years I've also learned that women like you require a little more, or different care, than most. Guys need to be needed. Period. Remember that. It is a difficult undertaking with all women for guys to read a woman's needs much less one that really has their s*** together. You also work with all dudes another obstacle. What do YOU need? This is where I call bull***, you are not unlovable as evidenced by your unbelievably introspective post. You just project unlovableness. I forwarded your post to several women that I know that are in your shoes, except they waste their time getting into relationships with absolute losers. Most totally agree with you as do I. The sword and shield is part of who you are, accept it. When I mentioned this to a former gf, she admitted to it and asked how I got around it. Easy, I got up behind her, and took interest in her life and job, I also take an interest in women that work with all dudes. With that said, thank you for your post. For now, get out, talk with random people. Prove to youeself that you ARE lovable, reread your post, hopefully you agree with me....touche, Madam, wanna hear your thoughts...

[landshark]

I'm an attractive woman and I'm certainly not constantly bombarded with a huge range of guys. For a one night stand? maybe. Anything else? No. Too much ass-talking from men in this thread.

I get where you're coming from, yeah, lots of guys have problems approaching, it's got to be frustrating for women. Ass talking happens, its called a defense. This is a good thread because Phoenix lays it out there by saying "hey fellas, I'm rooting for you, give me something to work with!"

All of us dudes fall victim to "dumb guy syndrome" and we want to blame women for our dry spells but that is plain and simple projection. Well what do you want?

[Geiss]

Well what you are experiencing is a result of feminism. Men for the most part if they are not as successful as the woman they won't date her. Career women are not family friendly or relationship friendly. What good is it if both people are working insane hours and never see each other. Then if you did have kids and the woman became the breadwinner it's a recipe for disaster. She resents the guy, he feels emasculated, his friends rip him a new one all the time, he has to ask her for money, she's the man and he's the woman. And it's only going to get worse as more men are dropping out while women are charging ahead since society is pro girl power and **** the guys. So it's going to be a problem unless women date down but will the guys date up? Most guys date women on their level or below them in terms of success. Not above.

 

So a lot of women dumb themselves down. And say they do some other career or job then what they actually do. Some men may fool themselves or want to cowtail to women and say I'm not like that but deep down it causes problems if the women is more successful then the guy she is dating. If you make a guy feel like a loser then it's going to be a problem.

 

And if you have feminist traits and are manly and don't have any femininity it's not attractive to a guy.

 

Do you have long hair? Or do you have the lesbian style businesswomen haircut? Do you dress down when you go out or keep on the corporate attire?

[jma500]

I agree, but keep in mind that sex is more than just sex to a lot of women. A lot of us can't emotionally disengage like a lot of men apparently can. Sometimes the sex and the aftermath just cause more pain.

 

I won't argue with your point. The op stated she can get contact (sex) when she wishes. This is a far cry from struggling guys who can't get anything from women other than disdain or they are simply ignored. At least she has contact. That is a lot more than some of us will ever get. Btw. I noted, after another poster stated she was dumped by a struggling guy , the op chimed in to not only agree but to show her disdain for struggling guys. She receives contact when she wishes and has the ability to turn her nose up at a whole group of men. Clearly she is NOT struggling at all. Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

[Els]

Until I figure out how to turn the flash off of this cell phone I'm using, this is the best picture I can take of myself for the time being.

 

Judge me for my appearance as you see fit.

 

Errr, you look perfectly normal and like many other men I see with partners.

 

Could do with slightly less baggy clothes (huge white tees on a guy are probably the least flattering thing you could wear ), but I'm going to assume you're at home, so it doesn't matter.

 

What phone are you using? There's usually a settings button on the camera screen.

[Els]

I won't argue with your point. The op stated she can get contact (sex) when she wishes.

 

This point is always put up and the explanation against it is ALWAYS discarded (and in fact there are always a few posters who are willing to put in time and effort to write very good explanations on every thread - an occurrence that boggles me). Why? Do you do the same thing towards the women you meet IRL - expect them to see things the exact same way as you do and refuse to even try to understand?

[Adele0908]

To the OP, the best thing you can do for yourself is empower yourself by making effort to understand men, life, the universe, and yourself. Feeling sorry for yourself never works.

 

Some authors I like are Marianne Williamson, David Deida, and Debbie Ford.

[jma500]

This point is always put up and the explanation against it is ALWAYS discarded (and in fact there are always a few posters who are willing to put in time and effort to write very good explanations on every thread - an occurrence that boggles me). Why? Do you do the same thing towards the women you meet IRL - expect them to see things the exact same way as you do and refuse to even try to understand?

 

Ok. I never said i didn't understand her pov. I got her point loud and clear and even empathize. However, the dichotomy between her definition of struggling and mine is where the problem lies. Even though its not the ltr she wants, she still can get human contact when she wishes. The struggling guys don't even have that option.

[oldshirt]

I'm late to the party and haven't read the 15 pages of dialogue so forgive me if this was brought up 14 pages ago.

 

While I really enjoyed Phoenix's essay and it had to have taken her a great deal of soul-searching and strength to write it, I don't think it is a fair apples to apples comparison to men at all.

 

I understand her angst and understand her loneliness and I really hope she finds someone special and rides off into the sunset and lives happily ever after, I don't think it's fair to try to compare it to a lot of guy's problems here.

 

As an attractive woman she CAN call someone up in the middle of the night for a booty call and get someone to come over to schmooze her up for a night and touch her and kiss her and tell her how cute and sexy she is.

 

I understand it may leave her wanting for more the next day and I understand it can leave her feeling hollow and disposable the next day but for a time she was getting her attention and getting her strokes. Even if it was "just sex."

 

For a big number of even average guys, they aren't even getting that!

 

They aren't getting some rubbing up against them and kissing them and telling them how cute they are even if only for an hour.

 

Phoenix may want more out of the world but at least she can make a midnight phone call and someone will be showing up at her door even if he is out the door ten minutes after he cums.

 

Here's another thing that's a kick in the shorts to the lesser men of the world. While they sit home alone pining over women like Phoenix and plotting their strategies on how they can get her to notice him, The guy that she just called out of "desperation" for human touch..... probably had several other booty calls from other women earlier in the week.

 

Here's the kick in the shorts for Phoenix and the other women in her predicament, that playa' that she just booty called, doesn't see her as a relationship candidate because....drum roll please.........wait for it...... because she booty called him in the first place. Playa's don't fall in love with, date and marry their booty calls because they don't want to commit to some gal that simply calls up some dude to come lay the cable in the middle of the night because she's a little lonely and wants a little entertainment.

 

Now before you all think I am the world's biggest A-hole, for saying all this, please note that have had periods of my life where I was the nerdy "nice guy" that couldn't get a date. And I've had periods of my life where I was the playa' getting the booty calls at night (often by married women no less) and I have been in the position where I have had to do some serious self-reflection and ask trusted friends "what's wrong with me?" and why can't I find love? And I have at times found healthy satisfying love so I have seen all facets of this.

 

I agree it's tough for everyone at times and I understand that bright, pretty, educated, professional women like Phoenix have their challenges too but it's not fair to compare themselves to lonely men. A woman may not always (and it can be argued if a woman can 'ever') find the love she wants but she can always find sex and sex is touch, sex is attention, sex is acceptance and sex is appreciation....even if only for a short period of time.

 

A lonely man can get neither love nor sex. not a fair comparison.

[jb4479]

Phoenix,

 

If you are still reading this, I had to register just to be able comment on this thread.

 

You are a warrior, but from your extremely eloquent posts here you have the soul of a poet, let that part shine through and you will do ok.

I too am a warrior, a protector, and I have rarely met a woman who I consider my equal.I have found them on occassion. a woman who could stand and fight beside me. Perhaps that is what you should seek, another warrior. Someone who seeks to have a woman capable of fighting by his side, rather than one who would expect him to do everything, and make every decision (my ex-wife was that way, long story for another time).

 

Believe it or not, there are men out here looking for a woman like you, equal partners, we don't care how much money you make, or what your job title or social standing is, we want a fellow warrior.

[thatone]

I keep reading posts from the number of men who have never had a girlfriend or who believe they will never find love. Conversely, whenever women post here that are having a hard time, the invariable argument is to compare the number of desperate male posts to the number of desperate female posts and thus to draw the conclusion that women have an easier time in the dating world and should not complain since they can get laid any time they want.

 

I am here to tell you two things, one that is completely ridiculous, and two, that it is in most cases true. I want to shed a little light on what I think might be going on.

 

I have spent a lot of time being both incredibly admired and incredibly lonely. In my lifetime I have never had a man pursue me or ask me on a date. I have always been the initiator. Contrast that to the fact that most people in my life have in some way, shape, or form told me I was attractive. The argument therefore goes that men are intimidated by me and thus do not ask me out. Heard that one more times than I count – “You are intelligent, strong, beautiful, sexy, and successful – that is scary to men.” In my head, I call bull every time and finally I decided to take it out of my head and into reality. I asked my friends just to be truthful with me – tell me I am hideous or stink, or whatever it is that is proving a man repellant. To that, they invariably repeat, “You are intelligent, strong, beautiful, sexy, and successful – that is scary to men.”

 

The funny thing is, it really doesn’t make a darned bit of difference. I could be stinky, disgusting, and hideous, or I could be gorgeous, awesome, and intimidating. The net effect to me is the same. I am alone. I will readily admit before I am asked, that yes – I can get laid. And I have. When the loneliness is too much and I am craving human touch to feel like I even exist, there are any number of men willing to step in and give me an evening of…human touch. Some of them have even mastered making it feel meaningful despite their intent to go home and forget I ever existed until the next time I am so desperate that any human contact will do…and I call.

 

So why am I posting? Because many of you think this is proof that women have it easier than you. I want you to know that there are women like me that don’t post because you think this. Instead, we sit and internalize. We wonder why if we are supposed to have it so easy there is no one there. We wonder if this means we are defective and why we don’t experience the life so many assume we have.

 

And we also know that if we post our desperation and despair we will either be called out by some of the guys here who think we should be happy because we can get laid, or even more painful – demonized by the stronger better versions of ourselves that post here telling us to suck it up and say “Next” when the men we want don’t want us back.

 

Honestly, I wish I was that woman. I wish I had the strength of character that several of the strong female posters here have to not let the constant loneliness tear me apart. Or at least that I possessed the ability to enjoy a one night stand as so many men seem to think would make it all better. As it stands, I spend my life devoid of intimate male contact until the pain of being alone trumps the inevitable pain I know I will experience when my lover for the night decides never to call me again. Here me – I do actually know that will happen – I am not stupid or deluded by the players. I know each time I engage in "sex with the ex" that it will not change a damned thing about him not wanting me as anything more than a booty call. So when I do call, it is because the pain of loneliness in the present moment has overcome the pain of what I know the next day will bring.

 

So why am I posting? I guess I just hoped it would finally dawn on some of the men here that being a single woman is not a cake walk - that we are lonely and hurting and desperate. Yes, I said it. I admit it. I am desperate…and afraid. This is what drives me to do the things you all call stupid and silly. Unfortunately, each time I give in to the pain for momentary surcease, I am simply reminded that I am and will only ever be - a phuk. I am also posting for the other women who might feel as I do, that they must be broken or worthless because no one seems to want to love them...and are too afraid to admit that frankly, they do need it to feel complete. We do need to be held, and cherished, and adored but somehow our society has warped this into embarrassment and shame.

 

I am standing up and confessing, I am not immune to the desire and the need for connection - connection with a man.

 

I mentioned earlier that I had as of late been on a mission to understand why I was not loved or chased, even though I do get admired. I actually did finally get my answer. It came in the form of a candid friend/lover when I asked him directly to tell me why I wasn’t loved or apparently why I could never be loved. To his credit, as uncomfortable as it might have been for him, he looked me dead in the eyes and finally told me the truth, a truth so many others have danced around and in doing so, confirmed a thought I had begun to form. I am, as I stand today, actually unlovable.

 

All my life I have been taught to be strong, to be confident, and to succeed in a man’s world and how to not bend in the face of adversity so that I could do so. And truly – I am that...and I have succeeded in a career dominated by the boys club. Unfortunately, the very traits that have made me successful have also doomed me to a lifetime without love. My friend/lover told me that it is evident to all the men in my circle that I have a “sword and shield” at the ready at all times – and while they respect it, admire it, and yield to it, they will not love it.

 

In other words, I am, for all intents and purposes, a man. Since I am attractive and by appearance female, they can get past this long enough to sleep with me, but they will never be inspired to be with me, to champion me, to love me...as that, my sword and shield will handle without them.

 

Meanwhile, after periods of celibacy and no human touch, I turn in desperation to a single night. A night that yes I can have with many or perhaps any of them. A night that provides a momentary salve to the pain of loneliness but then adds molten silver to the sword and shield I will inevitably carry the next day.

 

I guess my point to my single brethren is – never assume. Never assume the single (even if hot) girl is not desperate. Never assume that she dates continuously and simply picks and chooses between the men throwing themselves at her feet. For every assumption you make, I guarantee there is at least one counterpoint in the form of a woman like me. One who feels the loneliness you feel and doesn’t post for fear of being picked apart – either because she can “at least get laid” or because she knows her sistren will tell her “ to buck up and not need a man for happiness” – which when done, simply adds to the self-perpetuating shield that causes her to never have the love for which she actually yearns.

 

I am tired of being quiet. I am tired of being misunderstood. I am tired of not admitting that I need to be seen, to be loved, to be cherished. I am tired of living a life where I am lauded for my strength and in parallel missing out on the one thing I want most. All of my matched up girlfriends tell me how great they think I am and wish they had my strength. Then they go home to the men that adore them and I go home to my dog and a computer screen. So yes, I can get laid, and yes I am just as desperate as the men here that can’t. So we have come full circle. Assumptions about the easy life of at least one single woman are both completely true, and completely ridiculous.

 

There are men out there just like you, I'm sure you know plenty of them.

 

I was one of them until my mid 30s. Not that I couldn't get laid, but that was the end of it, I never wanted marriage, never wanted children. My current relationship of 1.5 years is my longest, as of a few months ago, I never let anyone else get to a year.

 

The difference in men that do this and you, is that men, biologically and psychologically, can simply do without these things. I had no nagging mental issue from my past that made me a bachelor by choice, I just didn't care to be otherwise. I also have no biological/hormonal desire to have children, I just decided not to ever have any and don't feel in any way lesser for that decision.

 

That is common among career oriented men, as I'm sure you know. Even those that have wives and children wind up divorced at a higher rate than the rest of the population, because the bottom line is, when your wife calls and says the baby is sick, "are you gonna come home soon?"...the answer is "no". And people will not say "you're terrible for putting work above your wife, you spend 60 to 80 hours a week at work, you're an awful person" or other such similar things to men. That man's wife may say that, but friends, family, and peers will not.

 

Because it's socially acceptable for men to be that way.

 

I sympathize with your plight, honestly. Women are told so many conflicting things from their childhood years through young adulthood...

 

"don't rely on a man"

"don't you want kids?"

"be self sufficient"

"men are intimidated by your independence"

"don't think about sex"

"don't have too little sex with your man"

 

The list goes on and on. The reason there is no such laundry list of contradictory advice for men, honestly, is that they won't listen. Men won't give a sh*t what you tell them. They're gonna do what they want no matter what advice they get.

 

What's the answer? There are two, that I can point to from my family.

 

In the one case, an older cousin gave up her career. She was a CPA with one of the big eight firms, house in San Fran, married to another career driven guy, all that stuff. When she decided to have children, she quit....both the job and the first husband. She's now a county tax auditor back in the southeast, pretty big step down. Her second husband is an attorney so he makes the bread. She just gave it up.

 

On the other hand I have another cousin who worked the long hours while his wife finished medical school, and once she was done and making money as a doctor, he quit to stay home with the kids. They committed to that when they were young (late 20s/early 30s), and stuck with it, it worked for them.

 

Your only option, therefore, is to find an equal. A man who doesn't want a doormat.

 

While they are apparently rare, there are a few of us out there.

 

Good luck.

[man_in_the_box]

I don't think this is necessarily a matter of which gender has it easier but more a case of how prone we are to self-pity and never being happy with what we have/are. Its a very human trait and what makes us different is how well we can accept ourselves for who we are. That doesn't mean that it doesnt matter whether you're ugly, poor, stupid or attractive, intelligent, talented or whatever. Ofcourse these things matter but I think that many people, in every position of the spectrum, are going to succumb to finding reasons why they need to feel bad for themselves.

 

On the other hand there are also those who are truely less fortunate in some aspect and still manage to remain positive. That is A trait I respect tremendously.

[ltjg45]

Errr, you look perfectly normal and like many other men I see with partners.

 

Could do with slightly less baggy clothes (huge white tees on a guy are probably the least flattering thing you could wear ), but I'm going to assume you're at home, so it doesn't matter.

 

What phone are you using? There's usually a settings button on the camera screen.

 

It's some T-Mobile phone that I could buy for like $50 or less that my brother gave me. It's not much, really. I been trying to find it in Settings but no luck so I just left it alone before I do something I got no business doing.

 

And, yeah, I'm at home when I took it. I do need to take better pictures though.

[Pompeii]

Except the OP is an attractive woman not an undesirable looking one like the majority of "struggling guys". You can't really compare her to them lol

 

Oh go **** off. Most guys who are "struggling" aren't unattractive, most of them are pretty average and normal, yet still have trouble getting women.

[mesmerized]

Oh go **** off. Most guys who are "struggling" aren't unattractive, most of them are pretty average and normal, yet still have trouble getting women.

 

Not too sure about that. The ones that post here always lack in one thing or the other. Either too short, in bad shape, still in college in their 30s or something else. There is only one guy who claims he has it all right but I guess we can all agree he is not very mentally stable given his 97897987 usernames and similar threads lol

[Revolver]

Except the OP is an attractive woman not an undesirable looking one like the majority of "struggling guys". You can't really compare her to them lol

 

How do you know that?

[Southern Cal Dude]

I can understand the OP's issue, but men and women are not the same. Women still get attention and can get sex whenever they want. I understand women have their own issues, but do I sympathize? No. I'm not your typical guy, but many of my friends are. Even the most average women get more attention than good looking guys.

[jma500]

Op I hope you read the responses and see the disparity between yourself and struggling guys. At least you know the simple pleasure of human contact. A pleasure struggling guys can't share because all women find struggling guys to be defective and unattractive.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Not too sure about that. The ones that post here always lack in one thing or the other. Either too short, in bad shape, still in college in their 30s or something else. There is only one guy who claims he has it all right but I guess we can all agree he is not very mentally stable given his 97897987 usernames and similar threads lol

 

So what if he's still in college in his 30s?

 

How dare you belittle people who are trying to better their lives. What are you doing? Getting a boob job?

 

So what if you graduated at 22? What do you have your degrees in and where did you get them? I bet I WIPE THE FLOOR WITH YOU!

 

Beyond that, just a dumb, ignorant thing to say. Education is a continuing process.

Edited June 26, 2013 by JuneJulySeptember

[fortyninethousand322]

Not too sure about that. The ones that post here always lack in one thing or the other. Either too short, in bad shape, still in college in their 30s or something else. There is only one guy who claims he has it all right but I guess we can all agree he is not very mentally stable given his 97897987 usernames and similar threads lol

 

True. I lack confidence, and social gravitas.

 

I'm hoping that the fact that I look like a chemistry teacher who cooks meth on the side will help me reel in the women.

 

*For the record, I don't actually deal meth. And I'm not a chemistry teacher...

[Maleficent]

So what if he's still in college in his 30s?

 

How dare you belittle people who are trying to better their lives. What are you doing? Getting a boob job?

 

So what if you graduated at 22? What do you have your degrees in and where did you get them? I bet I WIPE THE FLOOR WITH YOU!

 

Beyond that, just a dumb, ignorant thing to say. Education is a continuing process.

 

This! I am 32, work full time, and study the rest of the time.

 

In what someone who did this in their early twenties is better than me? I don't know. They could study all night and not take the week to recover, I have money to spare!

lol

[Easyguy14]

And thank you for hearing me. I am not sure it is evident in what I posted, but I am not looking to prove who has it worse. I laying my own personal struggle out there for the world to see in hopes that we can all start to really understand both sides of the coin. My story is only one woman's, I am sure some can relate to parts of it and not others, and I am equally sure that others will think I am trying to "stir the pot". I am not.

 

This is my truth. Raw, ugly, heartfelt, sincere...all of it.

 

I am flawed, I do silly things, I am hurt, I create my own self-fulfilling prophecy. And finally...I am human. I am not a man trying to screw someone, or a woman willing to let herself be screwed - but a person - who desperately wants connection and love and recognizes the things I am doing that keep me from what I really want.

 

I'm really curious to know what are you planning to do with all of these shortcomings that prevent you from succeeding?