Consolidated discussion - In dating/relationships, my gender has a much harder time

[organizedchaos]

me - I have never had a girlfriend. I am at least average in everything to WAY above average in most areas. Some areas, I'm even in top 1% for my age range. I honestly think I may die alone.

 

My best friend - has that beach body with the six pack abs, great looking face, fantastic guy. One of the nicest men I've ever known - I would go to the gates of hell for him. Comes from a rich family yet is not arrogant. Will be rich himself one day. He just got out of a relationship but before that, he really wasn't seeing anybody for 3 years. Not by choice either

 

The female versions of me or my friend are getting hit on 50 times a week and beating the men off with a stick.

 

Like I said, most men are lucky to stumble into a relationship every 3 or 4 years, otherwise they stay in that perma - single zone

 

cite sources other than you and your friends because that's just not true. Maybe for YOU it is, and maybe it seems that way here at LS because you see a lot of struggling dudes post here, but that's not most men.

 

I'm no male model, but Im also picky. I don't just want to get in a relationship with just anyone either, just like women don't. And women don't generally pursue. So yeah, it's natural for women to have a lot of opportunities more so than men, duh. After my ex dumped me in July of 2013, I dated, a lot. Like weekly. Not right away, but when I was ready after a few months. Never had a problem getting dates. And I'm 43, a dad but in good shape, confident, good career, and I'd say handsome, not a model. There were women I dated that didn't feel a connection with me and I didn't see again. And there were women who wanted more that I didn't feel a connection with. Finally, after a year, I met someone where there was a mutual chemistry. And I got in to a relationship with her.

 

Moral of my story? Stop shifting blame for your struggles. It's not as one sided as you think. It's just not.

[autumnnight]

Charles Manson Obtains License to Marry His 26-Year-Old Prison Visitor - Crime & Courts, True Crime, Charles Manson : People.com

 

 

An 80 year old convicted murder/maniac serving a life sentence in prison with a better looking girlfriend/wife than any woman who has ever been interested in me...and I've had several people say I'm one of the best guys they've ever known.

 

 

Tell me again how important it is to have a good heart in dating

 

If your understanding of statistics is so poor that you belief one example of a highly infamous man creates a generalization, I don't know what to tell you.

 

What you are looking for is what a lot of other posters are looking for: confirmation that women are to blame for all your troubles.

[toscaroscura]

If your understanding of statistics is so poor that you belief one example of a highly infamous man creates a generalization, I don't know what to tell you.

 

What you are looking for is what a lot of other posters are looking for: confirmation that women are to blame for all your troubles.

 

Not to mention, the only thing OP really said about this woman is that she is 26 and good looking. As if that's the only thing that matters. Not that she's probably a terrible person or a big basket of crazy to want to marry Manson. He's focused on her looks, and jealous that Manson "scored" her.

 

Guys like this always reveal their true motives. They want only the best looking women, (in fact a woman's looks and being not-fat is the primary quality a woman brings to a relationship!) while demanding that women give regular nice guys a chance and stop screwing only the hottest 5% of men.

[Weezy1973]

I don't know anybody who works more obsessively on self improvement than I do

I made a 100K this year as a 25 year old man, an income that puts me easily in the top 1-2% for the under 30 age bracket and I was strongly disappointed. I should have made 130-150 (which is what I'm going to make this year). That's how harsh I am on myself and how hard I push myself to be the best that I can be across the board every single day.

 

When it comes to women, i've tried and I've tried and i've tried to improve myself in every single way I can and it's been to no avail. I try to read all the time to make myself a more eloquent and intelligent speaker (as well as know what's going on around the world). I've lived in 3 countries and 5 or 6 states so I'm well traveled. I go out 2-3 times a week and do all kinds of fun and exciting things.

 

Physically, I look like a professional football linebacker but even that I'm not happy with. I'm around 15% body fat right now and I should be down to about 8-9%. And people may think that's me being conceited, no I feel like I should be the best at everything I do. Physically, mentally, everything

 

Character wise, I think that's one of my absolute biggest strengths as well. I'm a very good son, brother and friend. I treat all my loved ones and everybody in my circle very well and they love me to death.

 

None of it's enough though. There is a whole another gigantic list of requirements that I'm not satisfying and that's why women are never interested but it's alright. I'm going to keep ferociously working on myself everyday

 

First, the fact the you are "obsessively" working on self-improvement, along with this post, shows me that you struggle with self worth. You don't feel good enough. And that's really hard.

 

Why you struggle with women clearly (as you have pointed out) has nothing to do with the way you look, how much money you make, or your character. So it has to be something else. What do you think that is?

 

Hint: I mentioned in my first paragraph.

 

FYI: Very few of the men I know come close to your level on those things you listed (i.e. looks, financial success, etc.), yet they've all managed to date successfully, form quality relationships, and most of them are married. So, we can confidently conclude that the things you're working on are fairly meaningless in terms of getting into relationships.

Edited January 3, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[hotpotato]

I do kind of agree with this. There are couples that defy all sorts of logic

 

Then again, that guy better hope to hold on for dear life. If they break up, it may take him 9 years (or a lifetime) before he finds anybody else. The girl will have 5 dates the next afternoon

 

Every guy who has dumped me had a woman on standby while I go years in between boyfriends. It happens to women, too.

[mario_C]

Too good to not share, hope this is a good place for it:

The official Dilbert website with Scott Adams' color comic strips, animation, mashups and more!

[hotpotato]

Generally speaking, whoever does the dumping has it easier. More often than not, it is the women doing the leaving.

 

Sometimes women actually have a reason to leave a man. For example, if a woman leaves a cheating boyfriend, that doesnt mean she has it easier.

Edited January 5, 2015 by hotpotato

[Anela]

I've been involuntarily single for 9 years now myself and I know a dozen or more guys like that - most not as extreme as I am but many have been single for 3 or 4 years. All of us are pretty decent looking, intelligent, friendly and have very reasonable standards

 

The female equivalent of this doesn't exist. The only women involuntarily single are either a terrible catch or shooting for guys way way out of their league. This is because, for a man to be considered attractive, he's gotta satisfy a million dating requirements. Women just mainly have to be decent looking, not overweight and not crazy, all very easy.

 

 

This really isn't true. I haven't wanted to be single, but I haven't met the man for me. I've chosen not to go out with the men that I'm not attracted to, and the ones who have been attracted to me, who have been trouble. Plenty of men here who complain, have had women who were attracted to them, the attraction just wasn't returned. Being sweet and sane had nothing to do with it.

[Anela]

Sometimes women actually have a reason to leave a man. For example, if a woman leaves a cheating boyfriend, that doesnt mean she has it easier.

 

Plus, many women will stay and try to make it work, when everyone else thinks they should have left long ago. It definitely isn't easier, in a lot of cases, until they've finally just had enough.

[Rejected Rosebud]

............................

 

I've read that top the 20% of men get 80% of women. Honestly, I think it's more like top 5% of men get all the women

 

Oh NO!! This means that my fiance must be having secret relationships with a huge number of other women besides me!! :eek: What shall I do?

Seriously my friends have boyfriends or husbands, those guys have friends, my dad is married to my mom, my brother is married, my sister is engaged, I think my coworkers and boss are mostly married, that must be taking up more than 5% of the men right there. ??

[Danda]

I think some of the challenges and risks of men are different from some of the challenges and risks of women, so if you are unable to see something from anyone's perspective but your own, then it will seem like your gender has it way harder.

[Danda]

Like I can probably get way more first dates way more easily than a lot of guys can, but most of the guys I would go out on dates with would just want sex. If the only that matters in all of love and war is getting a first date, then okay, men have it way harder.

 

But I also think it's terrifying to try to approach someone and hit on them; glad my gender isn't socially expected to do that most of the time. I probably couldn't handle it.

[Pyro]

Oh NO!! This means that my fiance must be having secret relationships with a huge number of other women besides me!! :eek: What shall I do?

Seriously my friends have boyfriends or husbands, those guys have friends, my dad is married to my mom, my brother is married, my sister is engaged, I think my coworkers and boss are mostly married, that must be taking up more than 5% of the men right there. ??

 

SOP thinks that the top 5% of men play football and look like Mario Lopez. I can see where he gets that logic.

[Rejected Rosebud]

SOP thinks that the top 5% of men play football and look like Mario Lopez. I can see where he gets that logic.

I'm not very good with logic … I don't know how it works. But to stay on topic, I agree that if only 5% of men are getting all the women then men definitely have it much harder. I'm so sorry for you guys!

[Got it]

Generally speaking, whoever does the dumping has it easier. More often than not, it is the women doing the leaving.

 

Yes because a lot of people will take the approach of being major sh%theads to make the other person break up with them. Then they aren't the one "responsible".

 

This is not unknown tactic for men.

[toolforgrowth]

For every woman who says "I have a boyfriend/husband/FWB", there's a man filling that role. It's not like women are getting these partners in a vacuum.

 

When it comes to women, what I've found to be the most important thing is attitude. If you have a bad attitude, they'll reject you. Hell, I didn't have a problem getting laid or finding girlfriends, and I'm as dorky and geeky as they come.

 

But I have a great attitude. If you don't, and attribute other factors to your lack of success that absolve you of being responsible for your own happiness, then you appear weak. That's super unattractive.

[guest569]

I love all these fake statistics.

[GoodOnPaper]

Like I can probably get way more first dates way more easily than a lot of guys can, but most of the guys I would go out on dates with would just want sex. If the only that matters in all of love and war is getting a first date, then okay, men have it way harder.

 

I agree. I think men and women tend to have different pressure points in the dating process. If guys say they struggle, I think most will find the initial part of the process most difficult -- it certainly was for me. Many women seem to be more concerned about the transition from casual dating to exclusive relationship.

 

I'm in my mid-40's and my lifetime number of first dates is 9 -- I even remember all their names and faces -- but 6 led to exclusive relationships. Now, I feel like an idiot for having only been able to muster up interest from an average of about one girl per year while I was single but maybe others would be happy with so few first dates leading nowhere.

[hotpotato]

And? Sometimes men actually have a reason to leave a woman. For example, if a man leaves a cheating girlfriend, that doesn't mean he has it easier. [/QUote]

 

So we have determined that being the dumper doesnt necessarily mean that individual has an easier time dating. We're getting somewhere...

[Toodaloo]

Please explain how women have it easier to me as I just don't get it...

 

Women Own 1% of the World's Property -- Occupy That | Soraya Chemaly

 

'Women Own 1% of World Property': A Feminist Myth That Won't Die - The Atlantic

 

New Facts on the Gender Gap from the World Bank - Real Time Economics - WSJ

 

https://familyinequality.wordpress.com/2011/09/26/getting-beyond-1/

 

Understanding the Increasing Affluence of Women

 

Just some random articles.

 

Most say that women have it tougher but if you look at the last you will see that women are working their asses off to get more.

 

On dating websites we are supposed to be hounded and be able to take our pick - what a load of poo.

 

We still earn less than men per hour.

 

We are still discriminated against because we are the ones who carry children.

[insert_name]

The wage gap myth

 

I think the main complaint comes in terms of dating.

 

I am always being told by people not to 'look' and to chill out and 'it will happen'. I took this advice for many years and how many women approached menand hit on me? I have rounded it down to the nearest whole number for brevity, that number is 0.

 

What are the chance that I would have been hit on by guys if I was a woman in thst time? So as a man its very much the case that I have to make the most of any opportunity to talk to women and scrounge for numbers etc. I cant simply just forget about it and wait for something magical to happen.

 

Of course, there is then the argument that women who play a passive role in dating are not in full control of the options that are presented to them, which is a fair point but the ones who complain about this seem to be the ones that dont believe its their remit to chat up guys because they are traditional or whatever. So I think it is fair to argue that *most* women will get dating opportunities without taking an active role in the dating scene. *Most* men will not and will have to work hard for every date that they manage to score.

[hotpotato]

But

 

but

 

we can find sex really easily so that means we have easy lives! /sarc

[Ethan78]

I suppose such a general conversation goes down the road of who does the worst jobs, dies in wars etc.

 

Anyway on the relationship point more women will have an easier time than men. Not all women by any means. I wish women could experience having low self esteem and then being snapped at by some twisted woman you talk to in a bar because she is into a different kind of guy.

 

The difficulty for women who are struggling seems to be they don't have the right men to choose from. The difficulty for men who are struggling is finding women at all who are interested at all. Add to that any self-confidence issue and you are as good as dead in their eyes. Some of them will consider it an achievement or some kind of intuition to realise that a guy happens to be human and has self doubt so she can look for the next guy.

 

I once talked to a woman from the states who had this conversation with me. She was adamant that woman have it just as bad as men. She was a bit awkward and had self-esteem problems, but was living in the UK with her successful businessman boyfriend. That seemed to be lost on her. If she had been a man in a similar situation she would likely have been in her home town suffering with depression - possibly contemplating suicide. It's all relative.

[lino]

I've not once in my 32 years seen a woman struggle to date men because she didn't own property. Not ONCE.

[Toodaloo]

We have the pick and choose do we?

 

Ethan - I am really not seeing that. Unless I resort to flopping the bossoms out (in which case I am highly unlikely to attract the right sort of man) zip, nadda , nothing. We have men snapping at us, branding us as various lovely things such as prostitutes or a loose woman simply because we smile and joke, making snide comments about our looks etc. Never mind we haven't slept with any one for years... You think that doesn't affect us as well? It hurts like hell!

 

We do not have it "easier" on the relationship front at all. I pretty much see men using and abusing women, their trust and their love every day. Its a wonder I am not a raving loony/ man bashing one (wo)man hero with a rolling pin and frying pan in hand... We are constantly objectified and looked at as "sex" objects. Be it in a good or bad way. Do not even get me started on foreplay and how it dies after 2 months...

 

Last 2 relationships the boys moved in with me... so Lino property not a problem. Its a perceived problem