Consolidated discussion - In dating/relationships, my gender has a much harder time

[autumnnight]

In your example, I would consider both successful since they each got "one", which is the goal. However, I would love to have a 1/15 success ratio. I think both men and women have a tendency to overestimate the success ratio of the opposite sex.I concur. Not many men have to deal with this issue.

I'm going based on the observations of my friends and women around me. If I go to the bathroom at a bar, there's a guy talking to my girlfriend when I get back. Many of my female friends drag me to clubs so I can keep the guys off them... which doesn't always work. I have seen the Match mailboxes of quite a few of my female friends.

 

I don't doubt that you're seeing different results from me. Does your area have a skewed male/female ratio? There can be any number of causes. I know I'm an anomaly myself. Perhaps you and your friends are anomalies too.

 

I keep coming back to the question: even if we can establish who "wins," how does that change anyone's specific situation? I guess the bigger question is: So what? I mean, if I find out men have it objectively harder, does that mean I'm going to give the jobless, unbathed guy who comes up to my navel a shot because men have it harder?

 

No

[Shining One]

I keep coming back to the question: even if we can establish who "wins," how does that change anyone's specific situation? I guess the bigger question is: So what?

The goal (at least for me) is to foster understanding. Too often, we only consider our own viewpoints. It's enlightening to share your viewpoints, listen to the viewpoints of others, and then walk away with a greater understanding. From that perspective, everyone wins.

I mean, if I find out men have it objectively harder, does that mean I'm going to give the jobless, unbathed guy who comes up to my navel a shot because men have it harder?

 

No

Maybe it means you'll give a shot to the employed, clean guy who comes up two inches short of your ideal height. Maybe it means you'll go the extra mile to help a struggling guy. A woman was kind enough to do this for me. In the end, it doesn't hurt to have a greater understanding.

[lollipopspot]

Maybe it means you'll give a shot to the employed, clean guy who comes up two inches short of your ideal height. Maybe it means you'll go the extra mile to help a struggling guy.

 

So will guys who are not otherwise attracted to fat ladies or ladies with buck teeth and no chin give a shot to the clean, employed fat lady or unattractive lady who wants to date him?

 

And what kind of "help" to the struggling guy do you mean?

[Shining One]

And what kind of "help" to the struggling guy do you mean?

She became my wing woman.

[lollipopspot]

She became my wing woman.

 

Well there are lots of women who might befriend and help a guy she wouldn't want to date - the dreaded "friend zone." In my experience a lot of women like to be friends with men without sexual energy. The "friend zone" seems to be a problem for males (at least on-line) though. And lots of women seem to like to be matchmakers.

 

If a guy doesn't put off threatening energy (I'd call it "creepy" but that's a loaded word here apparently), he can probably find a nice woman friend.

[autumnnight]

The goal (at least for me) is to foster understanding. Too often, we only consider our own viewpoints. It's enlightening to share your viewpoints, listen to the viewpoints of others, and then walk away with a greater understanding. From that perspective, everyone wins.Maybe it means you'll give a shot to the employed, clean guy who comes up two inches short of your ideal height. Maybe it means you'll go the extra mile to help a struggling guy. A woman was kind enough to do this for me. In the end, it doesn't hurt to have a greater understanding.

 

See, the thing is, I already give that clean guy who is 2 inches shorter than me a shot. And it's not because he demanded to win the "who has it rougher" contest. It's because he was a good man, and confident, and kind.

 

What I am sensing under all this is a NEED to be right, to win, no matter what. To me at least, that is NOT attractive. You can't FORCE or bully or insult someone into empathizing with you.

[barcode88]

I hate these threads because there is usually a lot of bitterness and piss poor attitudes BUT...

 

Women do have it easier when it comes to dating & sex. For example, on dating sites Women just have to respond. An average looking woman can have sex whenever they feel like it.

 

Only the most attractive/charming Men can compare to Women in this light. Most average men have to put in a lot of work if they want to hookup, and dating can be a bit of a chore.

 

That being said - it's nobody's fault. Men and Women are just wired differently. To succeed in life you have to be willing to overcome challenges, and for all of us average looking guys, we just need to be willing to constantly improve

[autumnnight]

That being said - it's nobody's fault. Men and Women are just wired differently. To succeed in life you have to be willing to overcome challenges, and for all of us average looking guys, we just need to be willing to constantly improve

 

Uh oh...it looks like Woggle has some competition as the smartest man in the room!

 

This. 1000X this.

 

And if that is your picture, I would consider you better than average looking. Too bad you aren't about 20 years older lol

[lollipopspot]

An average looking woman can have sex whenever they feel like it.

 

With who...?

[Shining One]

Well there are lots of women who might befriend and help a guy she wouldn't want to date - the dreaded "friend zone." In my experience a lot of women like to be friends with men without sexual energy. The "friend zone" seems to be a problem for males (at least on-line) though. And lots of women seem to like to be matchmakers.

I have a lot of female friends. Many of them have offered to set up me up or be a wing woman. Only one has delivered on that offer.

What I am sensing under all this is a NEED to be right, to win, no matter what. To me at least, that is NOT attractive. You can't FORCE or bully or insult someone into empathizing with you.

Are you really getting this impression from my posts? I'm not trying to force, bully, or insult anyone. I'm simply sharing my perspective on this while reading and absorbing the perspectives of others. It's quite possible that several convincing posts from women will cause me to change my view. It would not be the first time this has happened on this forum.

[barcode88]

With who...?

 

Go to a busy bar/club on a Fri/Sat night and have your pick. Honestly most attractive guys are willing to settle for far less attractive girls when it comes to hooking up.

 

EDIT: I think things must change when people get older, but in the 20s dating scene, Women have a lot of power.

Edited March 2, 2015 by barcode88

[autumnnight]

I have a lot of female friends. Many of them have offered to set up me up or be a wing woman. Only one has delivered on that offer.Are you really getting this impression from my posts? I'm not trying to force, bully, or insult anyone. I'm simply sharing my perspective on this while reading and absorbing the perspectives of others. It's quite possible that several convincing posts from women will cause me to change my view. It would not be the first time this has happened on this forum.

 

Oops, no shining one, I do not get that from your posts.

[lollipopspot]

Go to a busy bar/club on a Fri/Sat night and have your pick. Honestly most attractive guys are willing to settle for far less attractive girls when it comes to hooking up.

 

EDIT: I think things must change when people get older, but in the 20s dating scene, Women have a lot of power.

 

"Have your pick?" Really? Will you sleep with an unattractive (or fat) woman who comes up to you at a bar? Are your standards low and you'll pretty much have a one night stand with anyone? And if not you, who?

 

Are you clarifying that this only applies to women in their 20s now? That's a pretty narrow range and many of us fall outside of it, so if all of these statements are just about attractive women in their 20s, that should be specified.

[insert_name]

So will guys who are not otherwise attracted to fat ladies or ladies with buck teeth and no chin give a shot to the clean, employed fat lady or unattractive lady who wants to date him?

 

And what kind of "help" to the struggling guy do you mean?

 

I tried that when I dated a girl off of OLD who was economical with the truth about her weight. When we met Iw as shocked but I actually liked her personality and we got on well so I invited her out for another date (bearing in mind that I am in good shape myself) she ended up telling me that she was the one who couldnt see it going anywhere romantic!

 

So I for one cant be accused of not lowering my standards. Although that being said given how that turned out, now that I have given it a go and been rejected I would now rather remain single than date a girl who is overweight again. I have been involved with enough attractive/average girls to know what my 'league' is.

[barcode88]

"Have your pick?" Really? Will you sleep with an unattractive (or fat) woman who comes up to you at a bar? Are your standards low and you'll pretty much have a one night stand with anyone? And if not you, who?

 

Are you clarifying that this only applies to women in their 20s now? That's a pretty narrow range and many of us fall outside of it, so if all of these statements are just about attractive women in their 20s, that should be specified.

 

Well my experience is only relevant to the 20s bracket. I've heard some Women claim that Men begin to dictate the dating game in the mid/late 30s, which is what I was going off of.

 

Me personally - I don't do random hookups anymore. But when it comes to hookups, Men are far more willing to have sex with a less attractive girl. If you're just an average guy, that narrows your options significantly since most of the average looking women looking to hookup are going after the most attractive men. In most cases you have one girl with multiple guys going after her.

 

Think of it this way - almost every guy wants sex. But not every girl wants sex. So if you have 5 women willing to hookup, and 50 guys willing to hookup, you do the math.

 

In online dating Average Looking Women will get 100 messages to an average guy's 1-5 (if any).

 

I'm not trying to be bitter here, but that's how it is. Women generally don't have to work as hard as Men in the Dating Scene.

 

Any guy who isn't worthless and pathetic realizes these things, but doesn't get angry or mad about them. Being bitter and resentful isn't going to get you a girlfriend/laid.

Edited March 2, 2015 by barcode88

[autumnnight]

Well my experience is only relevant to the 20s bracket. I've heard some Women claim that Men begin to dictate the dating game in the mid/late 30s, which is what I was going off of.

 

Me personally - I don't do random hookups anymore. But when it comes to hookups, Men are far more willing to have sex with a less attractive girl. If you're just an average guy, that narrows your options significantly since most of the average looking women looking to hookup are going after the most attractive men. In most cases you have one girl with multiple guys going after her.

 

Think of it this way - almost every guy wants sex. But not every girl wants sex. So if you have 5 women willing to hookup, and 50 guys willing to hookup, you do the math.

 

In online dating Average Looking Women will get 100 messages to an average guy's 1-5 (if any).

 

I'm not trying to be bitter here, but that's how it is. Women generally don't have to work as hard as Men in the Dating Scene.

 

Any guy who isn't worthless and pathetic realizes these things, but doesn't get angry or mad about them. Being bitter and resentful isn't going to get you a girlfriend/laid.

 

You are very astute. Especially about what attitudes work and what attitudes don't. And I agree about the messages, though bear in mind that 50 of those 100 are canned "I didn't even read your profile but you've got boobs" messages sent to every person who pops up in the new member alerts lol

 

I'm an extrovert, but I'm not a "bold woman." I freely admit I could never be a guy and feel that society holds ME responsible for making the first move. I mean, I smile a lot and try to drop hints, but if I was the one who had to actually overtly "go for it" first I'd be a miserable failure.

[Rejected Rosebud]

So I for one cant be accused of not lowering my standards. Although that being said given how that turned out, now that I have given it a go and been rejected I would now rather remain single than date a girl who is overweight again. I have been involved with enough attractive/average girls to know what my 'league' is.

Why is it necessarily "lowering your standards" to date an overweight girl?? :confused: I would think of it more like broadening () them. No I am really serious, it disturbs me when people talk about "lowering" their standards if they decide to date maybe an overweight girl or short guy(:lmao: "lowering") no srsly, that is not lowering your standards.

[insert_name]

Well you're wrong. There are outliers and social "losers" (for lack of a better word) of both genders. There are men losers, and there are women too. You didn't notice them because they are "invisible" to you as a man, but they're your counterpart. They're the women you think of as too ugly or undesirable or weird to date, they're not on your radar - you didn't see them as options, but they were there. Everyone has standards.

 

I actually think that because rape is so prevalent that this idea continues that women have so many options and are so desired. The fact that because some men are willing to take a woman by force and women must always guard against it - and note, women in their 80s and older, handicapped women, homeless women, etc. get raped - the idea extends that men who aren't violent and abusive must also be interested in any woman too.

 

The only women who to me are invisible are women who are overweight because its really not attractive or healthy. I can run 5k in under 20 minutes so I am physically fit so its not like I am fat and holding others to a different standard. Although dont get me wrong I love an hour glass figure so I am certainly not looking for stick insects. Problem is you rarely find girls who have wide hips but a proportionate body, they usually have way too much on the stomach and not enough in the breast area, the 'pear' body type basically. I dont like it. Other than that I wont rule a girl immediately out on looks.

 

That being said I cant remember ever being chatted up by an overweight woman in a bar or wherever so I assume I am similarly invisible to her or that she has better options with the guys that are looking to pull whoever they can.

That is fine by me!

[hotpotato]

From 18 through 26, I had no options. I was rejected by over a hundred women (several hundred if you count OLD). I didn't reject any women in this time because none approached me. I'd like to hear from women who went through a similar experience. I have yet to meet any.Higher numbers does make it easier in the sense that it provides a greater chance to find a match. It also allows women the option to be passive or active. Men (generally speaking) only have the option of being active.

 

Let's assume that both a man and a woman are looking for a long term relationship. The first step in a long term relationship is a first date. The woman is much more likely (generally speaking) to get more first date options than the man. Wouldn't this automatically translate to a higher chance of success?

 

Ok, well I'm 28 and apparently only men over 50 want me. I've never been the center of attention. Maybe I can score some thirsty horny dudes on POF.

[Shining One]

Ok, well I'm 28 and apparently only men over 50 want me. I've never been the center of attention. Maybe I can score some thirsty horny dudes on POF.

Have you tried approaching men? If so, what sort of reactions have you received?

[MissBee]

Everyone, regardless of gender, experiences dating issues.

 

The nature of them may sometimes vary depending on gender (and sometimes not), but there is no sum total where one gender is "winning" and the other isn't.

[hotpotato]

Have you tried approaching men? If so, what sort of reactions have you received?

 

Ok, so are there any other arguments besides this and "Imma dude and chics won't put out?"

Like people have already said, men and women have problems, just different.

 

How about this...Have you ever been in fear of a date assaulting you, physically or sexually? Now that's a problem.

 

To put the ls remix on a popular quote,

In the dating world, lser men worry about getting laughed at, women worry about getting assaulted!

 

Let's see what else...Dealing with thirsty dudes who don't want to get to know you, but will pretend like they want to be my bf to get some sex. See, that's a serious problem, even though lser dudes don't see it as one.

[Ethan78]

To put the ls remix on a popular quote,

In the dating world, lser men worry about getting laughed at, women worry about getting assaulted!

 

Let's see what else...Dealing with thirsty dudes who don't want to get to know you, but will pretend like they want to be my bf to get some sex. See, that's a serious problem, even though lser dudes don't see it as one.

 

Maybe if they dated the guys they are in the habit of laughing at they would find those are the guys who are less likely to be a threat to them.

 

It sounds like you have terrible problems. In a thread about which gender has it worse you call men losers and complain that guys you are obviously attracted to want to have sex with you.

 

Isn't it called entitlement when you think someone is duty bound to commit to you when they don't want to?

[insert_name]

Why is it necessarily "lowering your standards" to date an overweight girl?? :confused: I would think of it more like broadening () them. No I am really serious, it disturbs me when people talk about "lowering" their standards if they decide to date maybe an overweight girl or short guy(:lmao: "lowering") no srsly, that is not lowering your standards.

 

Yeah in hindsight I could have worded it better! At the end of the day being overweight is not attractive (to me at least), not healthy and under the control of the person to change if they want to badly enough. Not that I am saying that they should, if someone is happy being that size then I totally respect and endorse them doing that as they have to live in thwir body just the same as I have to make do with mine. But (again, imo, I am not trying to speak for all men) to me it is me 'dating down' to date an overweight female as I am not overweight myself. I daresay many women would consider dating me 'dating down' as I dont earn as much as them etc. Its all fair game, no-one can complain at their options if they cant match what the other person brings to the table.

 

Whilst on the subject, one thing I find interesting about overweight PEOPLE is that they dont seem to naturally all find other overweight people attractive. You dont see overweight women fighting over themselves for overweight guys do you? And vice versa, so in a sense they themselves acknowledge that its unattractive- overweight people just arent the most desirable, even to

themselves. Although its possibly better for women in the sense that guys can have a BBW fetish. I cant imagine the 4th installment of 50 shades being all about an overweight guy who has his pick of the women to play bondage games with!

[Ethan78]

"Have your pick?" Really? Will you sleep with an unattractive (or fat) woman who comes up to you at a bar? Are your standards low and you'll pretty much have a one night stand with anyone? And if not you, who?

 

Are you clarifying that this only applies to women in their 20s now? That's a pretty narrow range and many of us fall outside of it, so if all of these statements are just about attractive women in their 20s, that should be specified.

 

I presume you are being biographical in this thread. Barcode88 pointed out something that is obvious: average looking women can have sex with guys who are far more attractive when this seems to be less common the other way around. That seems to be true from my experience as well.