Consolidated discussion - In dating/relationships, my gender has a much harder time

[Imajerk17]

Well, this is my take. Dating IS easier for women. But that is because reproduction and childbirth is easier for men. (And even if you are a guy who doesn't want kids, we are drawn to women who our genes say could make terrific mothers.)

 

How dating is easier for women: Having several members of the opposite gender who would love to go on a date with you and who would be willing to put in the effort to get to know you--whether you would be interested back or not--that is the reality for many many single women, but for very few single men. I think that is the key point that the "struggling dudes" on LS who come on and whine would like to see acknowledged. Of course, options you are not interested in does you no good, but to a lot of guys on here, that has to be better than BEING the option no one is interested in.

 

I mean, when a guy comes on here and says he is dateless, what he means is that he really is stone-cold dateless, as in he can't get a woman interested in going out w him. When a woman says she is dateless, what she often means is that no one *she is interested in* has asked her out. The guys on here who struggle to get dates will never see the two as equivalent problems, which is why I think the women who come on here and discuss their dating struggles tend to get a hard time on this forum.

 

 

 

HOWEVER, we often forget that in many ways, we have it easy as men. We don't have to carry a baby for 9 months. We don't have to be concerned for our physical safety on a date. Women are expected to cook and clean, but we as men get a medal if we iron our own shirts And last but not least, being the ones who ask out women makes us the choosers really. Asking men out is a much trickier option for a woman even if she is bold enough to do so herself, because men have mixed feelings about women who are initiators. That most women won't ask men out puts us at a huge advantage. I mean, we can make up for a lot of shortcomings by being bold and confident. How cool is that!

Edited February 7, 2017 by Imajerk17

[BluEyeL]

I don't know about other women, but for me, yes, when I was dating, although I never had the "hundreds" of emails some speak of, it would have been easy to get sex. I wasn't interested in casual sex though so for me that has zero value. I understand that for some men that would be great, so "women" have it easier in that they can get casual sex. Yeah, that is true.

 

When I was single though, it took me 1.5 years to find a serious, long term relationship leading to marriage, and that is actually a pretty short time for a woman over 40 and with a kid.

 

About men and casual sex, this is my thinking and I suspect maybe other women think the same and that's why some men cannot get casual sex. Let's say I wanted to go for a one night stand. I would NEVER go for a one night stand with someone who isn't VERY physically attractive, more attractive than me, and preferably younger than me.

 

Why would I go for casual sex with someone older, less attractive etc. when casual sex is ONLY about the physical? There is no other higher requirement when sex is ALL you are looking for with a particular someone than the physical attractiveness. Zero reasons to have casual sex with regular, average guys. Nice has nothing to do with casual. Good job has nothing to do with casual. Nothing else matters when it's a one night stand or FWB. So yes, regular guys may not get ONS or FWBs and this is what it is and it makes sense.

 

For relationships, that stuff matters much less since one can fall in love with a man based on many many other qualities that reveal themselves in time. Time that is not available when things are casual or short term.

 

What you people call "unattractive" or "fat" women have a easy(ish) time finding sex, but a extremely hard time finding long term relationships. Nobody wants to have a fat/unattractive wife. Is that more fair than unattractive guys not getting casual sex?

 

Overall, life is not fair, for most people...that's the first rule.

[TheAntiHero]

Title

 

Haven't seen this thread in a while and am wondering.

 

And can we stay off the "each gender has it's own struggles" take?

 

I want to see "opinionated" responses with a definite "answer"; we'll see you down below.

[Simple Logic]

Who said it was harder? There are more ways to meet people than there ever has been.

[Cookiesandough]

[...]

 

And can we stay off the "each gender has it's own struggles" take?

 

I want to see "opinionated" responses with a definite "answer"; we'll see you down below.

 

 

You mean you basically want to see a gender war down below. Each gender does have its own struggles.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[Imajerk17]

I don't know whuch gender has it tougher overall, I just like being a guy.

 

There is a consolidated thread on here related to dating issues by gender, plenty of "opinions" there for you OP

[mortensorchid]

I think the means in which to meet people has changed but ... It's the same as it ever was.

[act00]

What are you asking? If you don't want answers related to gender, who is the "who" you are inquiring about?

 

I don't know that any gender has it harder. Dating and meeting was a lot easier in high school and college when there was a smorgasbord of available single men (and women). You still had to deal with a lot of frogs.

[basil67]

Very happy to see respectful posters not engaging in gender war. It restores my faith.

[ManOfLove123]

Do you believe that women have it easier, men have it easier, or both have it equally difficult when it comes to dating?

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my opinion, women have it easier in dating in certain regards. Here's why.

 

A woman is arguably in her prime in her twenties, the "golden era" of her attractiveness value. Your average woman in this age range EASILY outclasses men of the same age when it comes to the number of male interests in addition to finding short term or casual partners.

 

Online dating is heavily tilted in a woman's favor with your average woman matching with almost every guy she swipes yes to while your average man will get a match every 30 or 40 women. If 90% of people of the opposite sex find you attractive, as long as you keep an open mind, you will have a much easier time finding someone as opposed to if only 20% of people find you attractive.

 

 

 

Many women are also naturally more social then men are and this helps with them talking to guys. Even if a girl is shy, she is given more leeway compared to shy guys since a woman doesn't have to rely on approaching or having to do the dirty work and asking people out. A shy guy isn't given this luxury, he has to learn how to break out of his shell or risk being single for a very long time.

 

 

In terms of body types, there is also a greater range of what's considered attractive in a woman. For women, being small and petite is acceptable and even preferred among men. A small man however is considered scrawny therefore weak so he is deemed unattractive by women. This is why many men who are skinny go to the gym to bulk up because society tells us that we need to lift to attract women. The only body type that penalizes women is being fat, but for men they are penalized if they are either too fat or too skinny.

 

Height is also a factor where women have an advantage. For girls, height doesn't seem to play that big of a factor in whether they're attractive or not. If a girl is short, she's seen as cute or "fun-sized". If a woman is tall, she's seen as a model or having long legs. Women of various heights can be seen as attractive

 

For men on the other hand, height is definitely a factor in their attractiveness. The ideal height is 6 ft tall and many women don't even want to consider dating a short man.

 

 

 

That is why I believe women have it easier in the dating market. I would like your opinions though.

Edited August 4, 2017 by ManOfLove123

[rightondude]

beautiful women can command anything material they want; the only requirement is that they stay beautiful. However, they may lose out on actual love by doing so.

 

You ever hear the expression, when everything's priority #1, nothing is priority #1? When every guy is hitting on you, how do you ever know whether you're with the best you could possibly be with?

 

As for me, being with limited options, it's pretty apparent and easy to separate the best from within those I actually have a chance with.

 

Everyone has their own personal struggle and I'm not sure I'd say anyone necessarily has it "easy" in life. There's always a trade off. C'est la vie.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I think women have it easier in some ways, harder in others. I'll give some examples.

 

Woman meets a guy. He flatters her, hits on her, and takes her out. Guy seems really interested, and she likes him, so she hooks up with him on day one. Now, what do you think the odds are that this guy will disappear on her, tell her he isn't looking for a relationship, or whatever? I'd guess pretty good. Just ask the ladies here how many guys have done this to them. On the other hand, I have never once had a girl have sex with me and then bail. Never. If a girl is willing to hook up with you, she is almost always interested in more than just sex. I never have to worry about things like that.

 

I think it is harder for a guy to get attention from ladies, or to get a date, but I think that's where the difficulty ends. I don't think men have to worry about a lot of the same things women do. I know I don't. I don't have to worry that the girl I am meeting is going to rape or murder me today. I don't have to worry if she really likes me, or is just sticking around until she can get laid. Different difficulties, but pretty even, IMO.

 

I agree. Although I do have a girlfriend who just had sex with a guy the first night she met him and then didn't want to see him again, so.....

 

Also, the fact that men have it harder when it comes to physical appearance/body type is total B.S., obviously.

[guy45]

If we compare an equally attractive man and a woman, I would say that the guy has the harder time and has to do the more work. Men have evolved to be problem solvers, and ladies sorry to say this but you guys are the ones that sit back and wait most of the time while we're scratching our heads on how to talk to you.

[CptInsano]

Most guys don't see it that way, but the fact that you are supposed to take action is actually an advantage, a big one. Sure, there is rejection along the way, but you are setting the pace. Some of the women I've been with were way more physically attractive than I, but I was able to be with them because I had the nerves to ask them out.

 

I've also always had a chance at women, even in my teens and early 20s. But I was too blind to realize who was interested in me, simply because I had a very set notion of what the ideal woman for me should look like. I later dated women a few years older than myself at that age, and it worked out rather well.

 

As far as relationships are concerned, I believe that any female advantage fades by the mid-20s, when many people get serious about finding a spouse. In the end there is no shortage of women.

Edited August 5, 2017 by CptInsano

[Robratory]

<2017 discussion starts here>

 

it seem the internet has a ton of quasi single women here.

seriously what is up, with alot of you ladies on love and dating forum,

all you do is complain how dating is so hard, but yet many of you gals

have a FWB, or can still go out and get laid. or still get dates ( maybe short and doesn't lead any where) but come on, you ladies don't have it that bad.

Look, Im 30 and only been with one woman ( by luck)

 

haven't done anything with a woman for 6 years now, and Im not the worst of the worst, there are people ( both male and female) who never had sex, never had a date, never had a FWB, never went on pointless short date.

 

it annoys me, when I hear women complaining ''oh, Im so lonely''

''can't find a perfect man'' ''but last month, I sex with 4 guys'' ''and also my fwb came over for 2 weeks''

 

maybe some of you ladies have your set of problems, maybe you like a good long term relationship, but come on, you ladies have it way better than many men ( and few unlucky women) do.

 

in my book, if you have a fwb, can go out and get laid, or still get short dates

your a ''quasi'' single.

 

Women have it easier? Well, picture this. Suppose it was women who asked men out. Now imagine yourself being the target of attention by women you had no control over. The most unattractive women could hit on you, flirting, smiling, asking for your phone number, while you tried not to pass out from their stank breath. How's easier so far?

 

And how about if you agreed to go out for drinks with a woman, and she slipped you a roofie, grabbed a strap-on, and you woke going ouchie and what the hell? How would you like to worry about that every time some cute chick came on to you? They said Ted Bundy was utterly charming.

 

The truth is we guys have it easy!

 

To start with, we get to choose whom to approach. That's an incredible advantage. Unless our eyesight is really bad, we only go for what we already know we like. Think about it. In every ten women we approach, there are ten women we like. Now, in every ten men who approach a woman, do you think she likes all ten of them? Of course not. She's going to like maybe two of the ten.

 

Another big advantage is that women care 33% less about physical appearances than men do. Granted, they care a lot more about status, money, and power, but that is relative to their own status, money, and power. Even if you're not rich, and especially if you have a stable job and your own place, you're perfectly acceptable to a girl who is also not rich.

 

In any case, you gain nothing resenting women. In the mating business, men are the salespeople. We have to make the cold calls, work the prospects, wine and dine the clients, and close the deal. That's just how it is. If things aren't working for you, it may be your marketing.

[thefooloftheyear]

Here is my take....

 

Lower tier(sorry, I know that's not a nice way to characterize a person)guys who struggle do have it hard...Lower tier women struggle just as hard, and then have to weed out all the guys who feign interest just to get an easy lay...

 

Women as a whole are just better looking than men....For every 1 good looking guy there are probably 20 good looking women...So you have that aspect...

 

But, IME, if you stack up a average/ good looking guy vs an average good looking woman, the guy actually may have the edge....If he has some other intangibles(good career, confidence, etc), then its really not even close...Advantage-guys...

 

I just think some guys get hung up on the fact that most women get hit on, some pretty frequently, while there are a good amount of men that NEVER get hit on...I have a buddy that tells me that in his 58 years of life, he's never once been hit on by a woman...He's not special, but not really dog shyt either...Never,,,,not one single time....ouch...

 

TFY

[Scarlett.O'hara]

Do you believe that women have it easier, men have it easier, or both have it equally difficult when it comes to dating?

 

After reading your post I think the title was a bit misleading because you aren't really referring to all women who are dating. Perhaps you should change your question to "Do You Believe that Attractive Women in their Early to Mid Twenties, Who Are Not Overweight, Have It Easier Over Men In Dating?"

 

The answer would be yes. It stands to reason that they would have an easier time dating, but that is certainly not representative of all women who are dating, it would not even cover the majority.

 

Men may find themselves judged by how a particular woman views his masculinity. However, women are also highly scrutinized by their appearance based on how a man defines femininity and beauty, which can vary. The size of her chest, her waist, her thighs, her height, backside, legs, face, even the color of her hair. Everything is judged just as harshly by men. On that score, I would say men and woman are about even.

 

I should specify that I am talking about those who are dating in hopes of finding love, not just hookups, which is a completely different story. If you are questioning whether women in general have it easier getting laid, the answer would be yes.

[Imajerk17]

This is one topic that just never goes away

 

Let's get this out of the way first: Yes indeed, women as a gender tend to receive a lot more external validation than we do, including the "nice" kind. It is much easier for a woman to get a date--online or real-life, first OR second--than it is for most guys. If a woman is having a bad day and she posts about it on Facebook, she will get an army of guys AND gals telling her how terrific and swell she is. We as men generally don't get to have that (not that we would even want it anyway).

 

Women often ask why can't they meet a great guy, but they don't often get that *they themselves* are the ones getting in the way of this happening for themselves. Either they keep going by these crazy screening mechanisms, or they have something happening emotionally, or they just keep falling for the wrong type of guy. We see it on the threads on here all the time.

 

If there is anything I have noticed, it is that all of the above really gets a lot of guys on these forums steamed.

 

But, there is a flip side to this. What is attractive about us as men--and it's not really looks--we can work on and improve. We are expected to be the initiators, but that means we can ask out only whom we are attracted to. If you have your act together one is bound to say yes.

 

I haven't even talked about having to not be so concerned about our physical safety on dates (is being asked out on dates all the time really so good if you have to worry whether the guy asking is Ted Bundy), not having to get pregnant, not having to deal w all the hormonal emotional stuff that comes w your body having the hardware to carry and nurse a baby, ect...

Edited August 5, 2017 by Imajerk17

[ManOfLove123]

Women have it equally as difficult in the dating game but for different reasons, men and women's experiences are completely different. Women have attention handed to them, but they have to deal with creeps. Men on the other hand don't have to deal with creeps but they have a harder time getting attention. Their experiences are opposites, that's why it's hard to understand and sympathize with the opposite sex.

 

Let me explain.

 

A guy signs up for POF and spends the time and effort to make a really great bio about himself. He chooses his three best pictures, writes a well thought out bio with the occasional joke. Afterwards he messages 30 different women, only 3 of them respond and these eventually fizzle out. He then sets up a totally bogus profile of a pretty girl. The bio simply says, "im not good with this bio stuf, just message me n se what hapens." He checks back a week later to find that he is liked and messaged by dozens and dozens of men. "She" could message any of these guys, set up a date, and the man would likely be there in a heartbeat.

 

This is why many men come under the impression that women have it easier. From a man's point of view, the amount of attention he receives is equivelent to how succesful you are in dating and since a woman who is attractive enough receives lots of attention, it's no wonder women are often perceived as having it easier.

 

 

 

A woman on the other hand doesn't necessarily have to worry about getting attention, she gets plenty of that. Your typical attractive woman in her twenties probably gets hit on a lot, often times in inappropriate ways. A woman has to deal with creeps and weirdos in a way that most guys wont understand. This is why women are more cautious in dating, more cautious out on the street or in public. They know they're smaller, they know they're weaker, they know that they could get raped or molested.

 

So yeah sure women have attention simply handed to them but it comes with a trade off. You can't control who approaches you, who catcalls you. It's like a mini version of being famous.

 

That's why it's important that when you talk to a girl, you don't creep her out. If you creep her out, then you stand no chance.

 

 

Men on the other hand, sure they don't have attention handed to them like a woman has. But men don't have to deal with unwanted attention or creeps and weirdos and don't have to worry as much about their safety.

Edited August 5, 2017 by ManOfLove123

[CptInsano]

Women as a whole are just better looking than men....For every 1 good looking guy there are probably 20 good looking women...So you have that aspect...

 

It's kind of funny that you feel that way. I find that women look more sexy, as I'm attracted to women, but I find men far more interesting to look at. My perception is exactly the opposite, I see a lot of handsome men among women I don't find visually particularly noteable.

[Cookiesandough]

I agree men are more interesting to look at ?

[thefooloftheyear]

It's kind of funny that you feel that way. I find that women look more sexy, as I'm attracted to women, but I find men far more interesting to look at. My perception is exactly the opposite, I see a lot of handsome men among women I don't find visually particularly noteable.

 

 

Haha...c'mon man...

 

Just look around...The younger guys crowd now have shytty physiques, girly like dainty hands, neckbeards..etc...and guys generally don't take care of themselves as well as women do..Now that I am older, holy crap...Most guys look absolutely horrible...I wonder how any of them actually get laid..

 

But consider this...

 

Show me a pairing of a truly good looking guy with a homely woman....Its about as rare as a Unicorn sighting...Yet, you see attractive women with fat, stinky, ugly ass mofo's all the time...

 

That's another reason women find it difficult to find a guy they like..especially once out of the late 20's....For one, all the guys who have legitimate good looks and are genuinely desirable in the other areas. and aren't psychopaths and ex convicts are mostly scooped up early in life..And if they get back in the game, they aren't free for long...Heck, there are good/attractive women chirping in their ears waiting for them to be free...even when they aren't...

 

So what do they have left to choose from ? Good/successful guys that look like bridge trolls..or maybe a good looking guy that lives in his parents basement at 40 and has no purpose in his life/?

 

I can't speak for all. and these are just subjective observations, but this is a pretty easy game for good looking men with intangibles...Very easy..

 

TFY

[CptInsano]

Haha...c'mon man...

 

Just look around...The younger guys crowd now have shytty physiques, girly like dainty hands, neckbeards..etc...and guys generally don't take care of themselves as well as women do..Now that I am older, holy crap...Most guys look absolutely horrible...I wonder how any of them actually get laid..

 

To be perfectly honest, this doesn't match my observation at all. Most guys in my field are very similar to what I was at my age. In fact, the trend to do weights or hit the gym has only increased.

 

But consider this...

 

Show me a pairing of a truly good looking guy with a homely woman....Its about as rare as a Unicorn sighting...Yet, you see attractive women with fat, stinky, ugly ass mofo's all the time...

Quite frankly, I really don't. I see mostly couple of similar levels of attractiveness, meaning that there are also women around who don't look all that great. If you don't believe that female matches for the men you consider ugly exist, I would strongly suggest you consider visiting a Wal-Mart.

 

That's another reason women find it difficult to find a guy they like..especially once out of the late 20's....For one, all the guys who have legitimate good looks and are genuinely desirable in the other areas. and aren't psychopaths and ex convicts are mostly scooped up early in life..And if they get back in the game, they aren't free for long...Heck, there are good/attractive women chirping in their ears waiting for them to be free...even when they aren't...

True, the truly attractive have more choices. But I can show you the same effect with women who have their "orbiters". The same goes for couples that got together early, meaning that I highly doubt that the desirable guys who got together with their spouses early on in life settled for anything less in return.

 

So what do they have left to choose from ? Good/successful guys that look like bridge trolls..or maybe a good looking guy that lives in his parents basement at 40 and has no purpose in his life/?

 

I can't speak for all. and these are just subjective observations, but this is a pretty easy game for good looking men with intangibles...Very easy..

 

TFY

It does indeed get easier with age from a guy's perspective, if you don't mind women your own age. But that has largely to do with the strong preference of some guys for younger women, and a higher mortality of men that skews the ratio. (I'm referring to the Americas and am aware that it is not necessarily the same in other parts of the world.)

 

But what my post was originally getting at: I like male looks because there are more dramatic from my perspective, less calm and more dynamic, a starker contrast between aggression and calm or strength and frailty.

[elaine567]

Shy or socially awkward people, with odd personalities and uncommon interests, who are overweight/underweight, who have funny body shapes and have what are deemed to be "ugly" faces are going to struggle whether they are men or women.

Those deemed to be "average" are not going to be over successful either in the dating game.

 

When these threads show up we are usually asked to compare some "average" guy against some "hot woman" and of course then the odds are stacked in her favour, but as some OLD survey found that 2/3 of messages from men end up going to the top 1/3 of women, then there must be a lot of above average, average and below average women getting very few messages.

[Shining One]

When these threads show up we are usually asked to compare some "average" guy against some "hot woman" and of course then the odds are stacked in her favour, but as some OLD survey found that 2/3 of messages from men end up going to the top 1/3 of women, then there must be a lot of above average, average and below average women getting very few messages.

I believe the same OLD Blog you're referencing found that women rate 80% of men as below average.

2/3 of male messages go to the top 1/3 of women.[/Quote]

women rate an incredible 80% of guys as worse-looking than medium.[/Quote]