Consolidated discussion - In dating/relationships, my gender has a much harder time

[thefooloftheyear]

With so much of a woman's value placed on her looks, its pretty hard for any guy to say with a straight face that women have it easier...It only appears that way to them..

 

TFY

[littleblackheart]

I'm not an experienced dater (at all) but based on a hunch, I'd say that those with an entitled attitude and / or riddled with insecurities have it harder, regardless of gender.

[jay1983]

Haha...c'mon man...

 

Just look around...The younger guys crowd now have shytty physiques, girly like dainty hands, neckbeards..etc...and guys generally don't take care of themselves as well as women do..Now that I am older, holy crap...Most guys look absolutely horrible...I wonder how any of them actually get laid..

 

But consider this...

 

Show me a pairing of a truly good looking guy with a homely woman....Its about as rare as a Unicorn sighting...Yet, you see attractive women with fat, stinky, ugly ass mofo's all the time...

That's another reason women find it difficult to find a guy they like..especially once out of the late 20's....For one, all the guys who have legitimate good looks and are genuinely desirable in the other areas. and aren't psychopaths and ex convicts are mostly scooped up early in life..And if they get back in the game, they aren't free for long...Heck, there are good/attractive women chirping in their ears waiting for them to be free...even when they aren't...

 

So what do they have left to choose from ? Good/successful guys that look like bridge trolls..or maybe a good looking guy that lives in his parents basement at 40 and has no purpose in his life/?

 

I can't speak for all. and these are just subjective observations, but this is a pretty easy game for good looking men with intangibles...Very easy..

 

TFY

I mostly see men and women matched up with others in their "league". Very seldom do I see ugly guys with attractive women.

 

I understand you're very wealthy. Well high end communities happens to be the only place I see these mismatches you speak of. And regarding vice versa, take a look at the really low end communities. You see a lot of big women with thin men. Not unicorn good looks, but thin, well-groomed and well-dressed men with women who outweigh them.

[Imajerk17]

So I see we've moved to which happens the more often: Physically mismatched couples where the better-looking partner is female, or physically mismatched couples where the the better-looking partner is male.

 

Seems like a silly thing to debate to me. As there are a lot more good-looking women than men, *of course* you are going to see more of them w "ugly" men. Especially because a guy's looks don't matter nearly as much when it comes to how attractive women find him.

[despairingbuttrying]

I was just thinking earlier how it is tough going for men and how easy it can be for women when it comes to dating and attracting a partner.

 

It just seems that men have to have this long string of attributes and factors from confidence to sense of humour to leadership qualities to being driven and ambitious and yet for women.... what do they need to do? Women far more than men are obviously initially judged on looks more than anything else. Sure, no man wants a psycho or a manipulative ***** but those other requirements simply don't apply to women. When's the last time you heard a man being turned off a woman because she didn't have a great job or wasn't ambitious enough or had low confidence? If you're a decent looking guy it's often not enough, you need to also have a decent job, social status, good friends etc. If you're a beautiful woman, then it is often enough to attract a multitude of men!

 

I mean, some guys naturally aren't confident individuals for whatever reason and so it can be hard work building on it just like some women struggle losing weight. Yet, we have no problem telling a man to "man up" and be more confident because that's what's attractive to women yet would rarely say to a woman to lose more weight so that she'd be more attractive to men.

 

End of the day, women pick and choose and men have to work harder to stand out from the rest. Biology itself naturally dictates that men are the pursuers and women the choosers. Doesn't seem fair but it's just how it is I guess.

[Robratory]

Oh, don't kid yourself. Women have it just as hard as men do; they just have it hard differently.

 

Suppose you were a woman. Would you attract lots of men? Sure, but would they be the kind of men you want to attract? Imagine every woman you ever felt disgusted just by the thought of kissing her, and now imagine that they were coming on to you and calling you babycakes and telling you they were going to do you and how long and what style.

[Dis]

Ya, its really easy for us women

 

Especially the really attractive ones....

 

*Me sitting at home clutching my phone, on OLD, wondering how the f*** I'm still single after 2 years of this s**t*

 

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Ok, now that I have that out of my system...

 

Men do face different struggles than we do. I'll readily admit that. I dont envy guys when it comes to dating. But I dont envy us either. Dating is hard for both genders.

 

Do you have a question you want to ask, or did you just want to vent? Either one is perfectly fine

[normal person]

It just seems that men have to have this long string of attributes and factors from confidence to sense of humour to leadership qualities to being driven and ambitious and yet for women.... what do they need to do? Women far more than men are obviously initially judged on looks more than anything else. Sure, no man wants a psycho or a manipulative ***** but those other requirements simply don't apply to women.

 

For men, those are things that can be controlled. For women, how they look outside of losing weight can't really be controlled. Do you really think men have it harder?

 

When's the last time you heard a man being turned off a woman because she didn't have a great job or wasn't ambitious enough or had low confidence?

 

Are you really that surprised that women like men who can provide for their families? Why on Earth would they like men who couldn't? Because they enjoy the bliss of abject poverty? And when was the last time any person worth their salt, man or woman, wanted to date someone with low confidence?

 

If you're a decent looking guy it's often not enough, you need to also have a decent job, social status, good friends etc. If you're a beautiful woman, then it is often enough to attract a multitude of men!

 

God forbid men have to make good decisions in their lives and show their worth to have the chance to impregnate a woman and give her an 18+ year liability.

 

I mean, some guys naturally aren't confident individuals for whatever reason and so it can be hard work building on it just like some women struggle losing weight.

 

You're right, some aren't naturally confident. What's your point? Are you suggesting women undermine their biological desires and just magically start being attracted to men they don't like? And then are we going to start letting everyone play in the NBA because to be fair to those who aren't naturally tall?

 

Yet, we have no problem telling a man to "man up" and be more confident because that's what's attractive to women yet would rarely say to a woman to lose more weight so that she'd be more attractive to men.

 

Come to think of it, you're right. I can't recall womens' weight ever being a topic of contention before...

 

End of the day, women pick and choose and men have to work harder to stand out from the rest. Biology itself naturally dictates that men are the pursuers and women the choosers.

 

Women pursue men they desire very often.

 

Doesn't seem fair but it's just how it is I guess.

 

Life isn't fair. Complaining about it never helps.

[despairingbuttrying]

For men, those are things that can be controlled. For women, how they look outside of losing weight can't really be controlled. Do you really think men have it harder?

 

 

 

Are you really that surprised that women like men who can provide for their families? Why on Earth would they like men who couldn't? Because they enjoy the bliss of abject poverty? And when was the last time any person worth their salt, man or woman, wanted to date someone with low confidence?

 

 

 

God forbid men have to make good decisions in their lives and show their worth to have the chance to impregnate a woman and give her an 18+ year liability.

 

 

 

You're right, some aren't naturally confident. What's your point? Are you suggesting women undermine their biological desires and just magically start being attracted to men they don't like? And then are we going to start letting everyone play in the NBA because to be fair to those who aren't naturally tall?

 

 

 

Come to think of it, you're right. I can't recall womens' weight ever being a topic of contention before...

 

 

 

Women pursue men they desire very often.

 

 

 

Life isn't fair. Complaining about it never helps.

 

 

Yes life isn't fair and I wasn't complaining. Infact my last words were that's how it is.

 

I think my point is that overall, women choose, men pursue which is why men need to stand out from the rest and work harder in order to do so if they want a high quality woman.

[despairingbuttrying]

Ya, its really easy for us women

 

Especially the really attractive ones....

 

*Me sitting at home clutching my phone, on OLD, wondering how the f*** I'm still single after 2 years of this s**t*

 

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Ok, now that I have that out of my system...

 

Men do face different struggles than we do. I'll readily admit that. I dont envy guys when it comes to dating. But I dont envy us either. Dating is hard for both genders.

 

Do you have a question you want to ask, or did you just want to vent? Either one is perfectly fine

 

Just sharing I guess, wanted to see what people honestly thought! This is afterall where we can be truthful since it is all anonymous!

[somanymistakes]

If you're a decent looking guy it's often not enough, you need to also have a decent job, social status, good friends etc. If you're a beautiful woman, then it is often enough to attract a multitude of men!

'decent looking' and 'beautiful' are not the same thing.

 

If you're a super-attractive guy, that's enough to attract a multitude of women, too. It doesn't mean you'll attract exactly the ones you want to attract, just like being a pretty girl doesn't mean you'll attract the guys you want to attract.

 

Sometimes, for both men and women, you're decent-looking and people are interested in you but the people who show interest just aren't your type or are kind of losers, so you're frustrated.

 

Yet, we have no problem telling a man to "man up" and be more confident because that's what's attractive to women yet would rarely say to a woman to lose more weight so that she'd be more attractive to men.

 

rarely??? talk about ALL THE TIME. You may not hear it, because they don't say it to girls in front of you. but trust me, women are constantly bombarded with instructions to lose weight, but not too much weight! wear more makeup, but not too much makeup! dress more sexy, but not too sexy! wear more expensive stuff to show you care about yourself, but not so much that you look obsessed with brands! show an interest in manly topics so guys will like you, but definitely don't know too much about them, that's not cute! be more quiet and demure, how do you expect a man to put up with you with that mouth? don't be smart, that's just showing off! don't earn too much money, you'll threaten every man's masculinity and they won't want you! and so on and so on and so on.

[road]

I think that men and women face different challenges, but I would hesitate to say that one gender truly has it easier than the other. I know that when it comes to getting a date or getting laid, as an average looking guy, I couldn't hope to compete with an average looking girl. I just can't. While it may be harder for me to get a date, I bet it's easier for me to assess what she wants, and likely far easier to keep a girl around.

 

I have never once had a girl ghost on me after getting laid. Never. How many ladies can say that? Sure, I bet it's nice to be able to summon a date on the fly with a Facebook post, but as a guy, I think it's nice knowing with almost absolute certainty that any girl who will walk into my bedroom is interested in me as a person, and not just an easy lay.

 

I think the people who have it worst in dating are the ugly girls. It's not even close. An ugly guy can get a great job, become a rock star, something, and women will still be into him. There ain't nothing an ugly girl can do for men to be into her.

 

Wealth, famous which brings wealth, CEO of one the top corporations,

highly successful business owner (wealth again) all make up for social

skills, bedroom skills, looks, and so much more.

 

Women are attracted by the ability of a man to provide for them and

her children. Enough to show that other deficiencies will be ignored when the roll of money is big enough. This shows that to them a big wallet is much more attractive then a big penis.

 

Most men are raised and conditioned to be a provider. They do not

seek out a woman based on her income. If she happens to make good

money, have wealth, that is just a bonus.

 

In a sense men can use money to get a women many times and above his rating when there is enough wealth.

 

Women can not use wealth the same way. Men do not look for a provider. That is their own job.

[despairingbuttrying]

I guess this is what concerns me then.

I'm tall, decent looking and personality, rarely drink, well travelled, culturally aware etc. but as we've said that is not enough as a man.

At almost 34 I feel quite lost and uncertain about my future. I haven't really had a career and finding work at the moment is not easy due to the lack of jobs in my field. This means possibly starting over and doing something new, which is fine if I knew what I wanted to do.

 

In any case according to what we've been saying here, I fear it is ruining my chances with women because more than likely now I can't be the provider. So I'm anxious and I'm panicking because who out there is going to want to be with a guy like me, despite all the positive things I do have going for me? I know we're all different and this can all be very subjective.

 

It's interesting though because in a world and society that preaches all this equality very different expectations still exist.

[elaine567]

If you're a decent looking guy it's often not enough, you need to also have a decent job, social status, good friends etc. If you're a beautiful woman, then it is often enough to attract a multitude of men! -=

 

Why are you comparing "decent" with beautiful?

Why do you feel a decent guy equates to "beautiful"?

Of course it doesn't.

 

The majority of women aren't "beautiful", just like the majority of men aren't 1%ers nor do they have film star good looks.

 

A guy with ONLY film star good looks is going to attract a multitude of women too.

You aren't comparing like with like, just like most of the guys who come here to moan about "women" having it so much easier.

Yes, beautiful women have it so much "easier", just like rich or good looking men do too.

BUT most women even the beautiful ones struggle to meet "suitable" candidates in the same way men do.

 

"Hot" desirable women are not looking for "average", and that is the big issue actually.

Many struggling men see themselves as entitled to or are holding out for a "hot" woman and thus get frustrated, angry and annoyed when those women are looking elsewhere and they are left with what they consider to be the "subpar" pool.

 

The truth is most people pair off eventually with someone who is on a similar level on the looks scale.

A truly average "decent" guy matching up with a truly beautiful woman is usually just a fairy story...

In order for there to be a big mismatch in looks, something else needs to be in play - childhood sweethearts, shared upbringing, closed community, "arranged" marriage, charismatic personality, career, money... etc.

[elaine567]

I guess this is what concerns me then.

I'm tall, decent looking and personality, rarely drink, well travelled, culturally aware etc. but as we've said that is not enough as a man.

At almost 34 I feel quite lost and uncertain about my future. I haven't really had a career and finding work at the moment is not easy due to the lack of jobs in my field. This means possibly starting over and doing something new, which is fine if I knew what I wanted to do.

 

In any case according to what we've been saying here, I fear it is ruining my chances with women because more than likely now I can't be the provider. So I'm anxious and I'm panicking because who out there is going to want to be with a guy like me, despite all the positive things I do have going for me? I know we're all different and this can all be very subjective.

 

It's interesting though because in a world and society that preaches all this equality very different expectations still exist.

 

People, both men and women looking for a long term relationship are looking for qualities that will make their partner good marriage material.

Yes some men can be shallow and want a trophy wife, sex on tap and care little about anything else, but most want a wife who will be an active part of the marital team, not a hanger on.

Most women looking seriously for a husband are looking for a guy with a job, a guy with a career, a guy that can support her when she is off work bringing up their children.

At 34 I guess the women you would be dating ARE mostly looking for a husband.

She is not looking for a 34yo who doesn't have a career or a job and has no idea of what he wants to do in the future either...

It is all a bit lack lustre and feckless, and neither men or women tend to be attracted to that dynamic... sorry to say.

[despairingbuttrying]

Most women looking seriously for a husband are looking for a guy with a job, a guy with a career, a guy that can support her when she is off work bringing up their children.

At 34 I guess the women you would be dating ARE mostly looking for a husband.

She is not looking for a 34yo who doesn't have a career or a job and has no idea of what he wants to do in the future either....

 

That's it, you've proved my overall point that men and women seek different things because if it were the other way round this notion wouldn't apply.

A man would not reject a woman of that age if she simply didn't have a career/job and had no idea what she wanted in life, as long as she had other traits and could contribute in other ways e.g. beauty, nurturing personality etc.

 

So you see, that goes to show you can be a great guy, sensitive, caring, confident, funny etc. but if you don't have a solid job and can't provide that security then women aren't interested and yet we still preach equality.

[elaine567]

That's it, you've proved my overall point that men and women seek different things because if it were the other way round this notion wouldn't apply.

A man would not reject a woman of that age if she simply didn't have a career/job and had no idea what she wanted in life, as long as she had other traits and could contribute in other ways e.g. beauty, nurturing personality etc.

 

So you see, that goes to show you can be a great guy, sensitive, caring, confident, funny etc. but if you don't have a solid job and can't provide that security then women aren't interested and yet we still preach equality.

 

YOU seem to be blaming your situation on "women" and "society" and "equality", when it is YOU that has no career, no job, no plan for the future, so what are YOU going to do about that?

[despairingbuttrying]

YOU seem to be blaming your situation on "women" and "society" and "equality", when it is YOU that has no career, no job, no plan for the future, so what are YOU going to do about that?

 

I'm not complaining or blaming anyone (apart from myself infact), I'm just stating how things are or it seems to be to me.

I'm trying but it's not easy because of other factors going on in my life but I feel it may too late anyway at this stage.

[knabe]

When you take responsibility for your own life, things change. You aren't doing that, plain and simple.

[somanymistakes]

That's it, you've proved my overall point that men and women seek different things because if it were the other way round this notion wouldn't apply.

 

Her quote said 'most', not all. People aren't all the same.

 

A man would not reject a woman of that age if she simply didn't have a career/job and had no idea what she wanted in life, as long as she had other traits and could contribute in other ways e.g. beauty, nurturing personality etc.

 

No, you mean YOU wouldn't reject a woman for that. You can't speak for all men. Some men would definitely reject a woman like that, because they'd worry that she was a gold-digger just looking for a wallet, or a flake, or a certified party-girl... not wife material.

 

So you see, that goes to show you can be a great guy, sensitive, caring, confident, funny etc. but if you don't have a solid job and can't provide that security then women aren't interested and yet we still preach equality.

 

Of course there are women who date great guys that don't have great careers. The percentage of marriages where the woman earns more than the man has been steadily rising. Stay-at-home-dads are a thing. Even househusbands are a thing. Read enough relationship forums and you'll find plenty of women supporting husbands who bounce between careers and pursue hobbies and so on.

 

But obviously, not EVERY woman will be interested in a man without a great job.

 

Not EVERY woman would be interested even if you were gorgeous and rich. People have individual tastes.

 

If you feel that you can't meet the 'strong provider' part of many women's checklists, you have two obvious approaches. One would be to get a better job. The other would be to look for women who don't care so much about that particular aspect.

 

Look for a self-sufficient woman, one who's got her act together, has a secure job and a home of her own. Not a career-obsessed high-flying businesswoman, because a really hard-nosed NYC exec is probably very picky and I'm not sure you'd fit into her lifestyle. You want someone with a comfortable lifestyle who doesn't need a man to survive but would like companionship. One who isn't in a desperate rush to get married to fulfill some childhood dream, but is more willing to take things slow. Possibly one who's been married before, possibly one who already has a child. That's the kind of woman you can win with your personality, one who will deal with you as an equal.

[thefooloftheyear]

C'mon people....This is not that hard...

 

I'm not a woman, but I know what the deal is....

 

If you are a woman, like I stated previously, you have to be constantly "on your game" physically to attract good/desirable men...And it matters not if you are higher or lower on the socio-economic scale...Additionally, while it's great for a woman to "climb the corporate ladder" and/or do well for themselves career wise, they don't really get a whole lot of points for doing it, as it would for a man..It only really translates into more independence from men...Those women could (and do) struggle mightily...

 

And because women don't put as much emphasis or attention to looks in a man, as long as they are reasonably attractive, good women don't hold that against them, in the same way a man does to a woman...

 

Not to state the obvious, but with women, attraction from the opposite sex can either be genuine, or have an ulterior motive(sex/objectification) only...Guys generally don't have this problem...or if they do, its easier to ferret out...

 

And here is another thing, and Ill admit that this might be somewhat controversial to say this....I mean no disrespect to anyone..Just my own personal observations..

 

If you are a reasonably attractive to good looking man, with any of his shyt together over the age of....say.....28-30, then you are pretty much going to have a pretty easy time attracting women...The numbers start to really work in your favor, because more "good" guys get scooped up early, and you wind up competing with basically a rag-tag bunch of idiots and nobodies...Its a numbers game at that point...

 

I'll even go as far to say that most "good" available men don't even get a chance to make it into the OLD world...They have women locally all over them in their own circle just waiting to pounce on them like a cat to a mouse.....Some of my contemporaries(good guys that have divorced) wound up with tons of options and securely with a new woman almost instantly...

 

That's why it seems like the only guys on OLD are players, flakes, and nobodies...I have seen really good looking women having no success on OLD..I've even seen it on this site and scratched my head over it..."How is this even possible"? .I can only imagine how frustrating and difficult it must be..

 

And lastly, its often said that older guys are seen as sexy, sophisticated, worldly, accomplished, etc...older women seem to be thrown in the trash heap once they get menopausal and unless they spend a King's ransom on restorative surgery, and just about kill themselves with restrictive diet and exercise, seemingly no guy that's considered desirable wants them...I know a guy that's recently divorced, in his early/mid 60's...I asked him if he's dating, and he replied, "have you ever seen what women look like at my age? ....No thanks....I'll hold out for some 40 year old when I am ready"...The crazy part is he could probably easily pull it off..

 

That's pretty effing sad, if you ask me...

 

TFY

Edited September 6, 2017 by thefooloftheyear

[nospam99]

I know a guy that's recently divorced, in his early/mid 60's...I asked him if he's dating, and he replied, "have you ever seen what women look like at my age? ....No thanks....I'll hold out for some 40 year old when I am ready"...The crazy part is he could probably easily pull it off..

 

That's pretty effing sad, if you ask me...

 

TFY

 

Hmmm Another datapoint - me: recently divorced, early/mid 60's, not dating but interested in starting up again and 'doing' meetup.com and speed dating. I've seen women my age who look fine but they are 'to a man' 30-years married. I don't need to hold out for some 40 year old either. Plenty of 50-somethings who have potential.

[despairingbuttrying]

What do people think about this following dialogue and in particular the responses?

 

I'm tall, decent looking and personality, rarely drink, well travelled, culturally aware etc. and I believe I genuinely feel I have things to offer a good woman.

 

This part here doesn't really matter.

 

However the problem is at almost 34 I feel quite lost and uncertain about my future. I haven't really had a career and finding work at the moment is not easy due to the lack of jobs in my field. becoming the man I could have been by now.

 

Yes, most women will not date you because of this problem. A man that can't provide for himself is like a woman who is unattractive.

 

 

Maybe there are women out there who just want to be treated well and are looking for a trust worthy and kind man and aren't too bothered about his income or potential to provide.

 

Yes there are. They are usually in there 50s or higher and are very lonely. Find yourself a cougar, they prefer younger men and they don't care so much about his financial situation.

 

However if you want a woman around your age or younger to take care of you, it's not going to happen.

[knabe]

The only men who insist 24/7 that men have it harder are the men who have a hard time because:

 

A. They are socially inept

B. They overestimate what they bring to the table

C. The feel entitled to a woman

D. They basically don't like women much but still expect to have sex with them

 

Men like Enigma and TFY who have emotional intelligence and attractive qualities have a more objective grasp because they aren't shooting themselves in the foot.

[despairingbuttrying]

When you take responsibility for your own life, things change. You aren't doing that, plain and simple.

 

What makes you think I'm not doing that? I haven't said anything about how I'm trying or not trying.