Consolidated discussion - In dating/relationships, my gender has a much harder time

[Southern Cal Dude]

I will never, ever, consider the homeless drug addict who hangs out at the gas station an option.

 

Yeah, he gives me attention and catcalls me. He also does that to every other woman who gets gas there.

 

 

Even so, does he actually want to DATE me? Doubt it.

 

 

My issue is getting DATES. With men who are in my age range, who aren't on drugs, who aren't homeless. Yes I'm gonna be picky and have some criteria. Homeless men aren't gonna have a chance with me.

 

 

It's not up for debate. If you have the power to choose(and rejecting is a choice), then it's an option. Undesirables still count as options.

 

As for getting dates, maybe you're too picky. Maybe you're aiming out of your league. But if you're having trouble getting dates, all I can say is realize who's in your league and ask out someone who intrigues you.

[ThaWholigan]

It's not up for debate. If you have the power to choose(and rejecting is a choice), then it's an option. Undesirables still count as options.

 

As for getting dates, maybe you're too picky. Maybe you're aiming out of your league. But if you're having trouble getting dates, all I can say is realize who's in your league and ask out someone who intrigues you.

By that token, then most people of both genders have options.......

[Southern Cal Dude]

By that token, then most people of both genders have options.......

 

 

They do. Maybe not the most desirable, but if you don't have unrealistic standards, even the below average have at least some.

[Phoe]

It's not up for debate. If you have the power to choose(and rejecting is a choice), then it's an option. Undesirables still count as options.

 

As for getting dates, maybe you're too picky. Maybe you're aiming out of your league. But if you're having trouble getting dates, all I can say is realize who's in your league and ask out someone who intrigues you.

 

lol homeless dude isn't even asking me out. he's not looking for a date. he's looking for money. Tell a girl she's pretty and smells nice and maybe she'll toss some money his way. He is not an actual option to DATE because he's not even trying to date me.

 

 

I don't aim out of my league because I don't aim anywhere. I'm not picky, I don't care about looks, wealth, alpha/beta whatever. I just like guys who are kind, genuine, and fun to spend time with.

 

 

I'm planning on practicing my cold approach soon, see what happens. My goal is to go on at least one date before 2014 hits.

[TouchedByViolet]

The problem I have with Phoe is... she is HOT. I'm surprised she is not beating away the men. The idea that she is struggling to land a date doesn't even compute.

 

If I was dating as girl that looked like Phoe I would be romancing the eff out of her. Just saying...

[ThaWholigan]

The problem I have with Phoe is... she is HOT. I'm surprised she is not beating away the men. The idea that she is struggling to land a date doesn't even compute.

 

If I was dating as girl that looked like Phoe I would be romancing the eff out of her. Just saying...

Of course you don't get it .

 

I know girls like Phoe, so it does not surprise me at all.

[Phoe]

The problem I have with Phoe is... she is HOT. I'm surprised she is not beating away the men. The idea that she is struggling to land a date doesn't even compute.

 

If I was dating as girl that looked like Phoe I would be romancing the eff out of her. Just saying...

 

I'm not THAT hot, but thanks for the compliment, I appreciate it!

 

 

My issue is just that guys friendzone me. I frequently get told by male friends that they see me like a sister. Adorable and fun Phoe, that they care about and are protective of, but are totally and completely uninterested in romantically.

 

 

I need to figure out what I'm doing that puts off the vibe that says "be my friend!" lol.

[TheBigQuestion]

Regardless of who apparently has a harder time in dating (and I agree with most posters here when they say that talking about this topic is a meaningless, counter-productive pissing contest), I'm intrigued by some people's insistence that the plain meaning of the word "option" doesn't apply if and when they think it shouldn't apply. Sorry, but English doesn't change at your convenience. Undesirable options are still options.

[Phoe]

I'm intrigued by some people's insistence that the plain meaning of the word "option" doesn't apply if and when they think it shouldn't apply. Sorry, but English doesn't change at your convenience. Undesirable options are still options.

 

My personal issue with this isn't the matter of what is or isn't an option based on desirability, I totally agree with the fact that an undesirable option is still an option.

 

 

The point I've been trying to make is that the homeless guy isn't an actual "option" because he's not actually trying to date me. It's not like he made an offer and I rejected. He's simply a drug addict who catcalls every woman who pulls up to the gas station. He's not a "dating option".

 

 

A guy who actually pursues me and makes an offer but is not desirable to me? Yes that is absolutely an option. No doubt about it.

[TheBigQuestion]

My personal issue with this isn't the matter of what is or isn't an option based on desirability, I totally agree with the fact that an undesirable option is still an option.

 

 

The point I've been trying to make is that the homeless guy isn't an actual "option" because he's not actually trying to date me. It's not like he made an offer and I rejected. He's simply a drug addict who catcalls every woman who pulls up to the gas station. He's not a "dating option".

 

 

A guy who actually pursues me and makes an offer but is not desirable to me? Yes that is absolutely an option. No doubt about it.

 

I agree. I'm referring to other recent posters in this thread who say otherwise.

[TouchedByViolet]

Of course you don't get it .

 

I know girls like Phoe, so it does not surprise me at all.

 

Since you are single, why aren't you dating them?

[ThaWholigan]

Since you are single, why aren't you dating them?

Because I'm choosing to be single until I have some kind of stability in my life. I still live with my parents and have a self-employed job that isn't paying . I'm not exactly dating material at surface value.

[Betterthanthis13]

you know what interesting, the women who usually get mad at these type of thread are usually the women that are either

A- in a relationship

or

B- having tons of sex, or have a fwb, or an ex she sleeps with.

 

--------

to this day, and no matter what site it is, whenever a guys goes on and say

something like this: ''women have it so easy in dating'' ''us men, have it so hard'' ''you ladies, can get laid whenever you want''

 

99% of the women who respond, are usually upset about it, and tell the guy ''oh, it's not true'' ''us, women do struggle'' ''you, men have entitlement issues'' ''your biterness is why women don't date you''

but 99% of the women who respond either all have boyfriends, or still are having tons of sex, or have a fwb.

 

I find it so funny, whenever a guy say ''ladies can get laid easy''

and the ladies who respond, are the ladies who have no trouble getting laid,

or have had tons of sex partners.

 

I don't understand your problem- ??

 

Yes I can have sex with guys if I want. I'm not physically unattractive and if I want sex I can get it pretty easily. Mostly I am fending it off.

 

I grew up poor.- A lot of my friends had everything handed to them on a silver platter and never worked a day in their life.

 

So what?

 

I worked 3 part time jobs in high school, paid for my own college education and now have a decent job that I can pay bills with. Also a lot of student loan debt.

 

Some of my friends from HS had their parents give them the keys to the kingdom and are multi millionaires with very little effort

 

Not me. Oh freaking well- I can improve my lot in life or be jealous of what they have. Which attitude will help me more? Either way I will never have rich parents.

[Els]

Definition of option:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm right. If you have the power to choose, it is an option. You can choose not to pursue it, but you still have the power to choose. That is called an option.

 

Aight, so if a 70-year-old 300 lbs woman came on to you, you have zero right to talk about ANY sort of dating/relationship problems whatsoever because you had an 'option' and you threw it away, yes?

 

Sounds legit.

 

As a side note, shame on you guys who derailed Teknoe's thread and caused it to be merged here through no fault of his own (or the person you attacked). You know who you are. And I hope that the next time YOU post a thread asking for help, some people start a gender war on it too, completely oblivious to the real-life person facing real problems who was hoping to get help from it.

[ThaWholigan]

So … what's this have to do with whether you're a guy or a girl? Anybody has the power to choose, or to reject. And everybody has the risk of being rejected by the ones they choose. Guys, girls, same.

They still believe that 20% of men BS, don't even entertain it .......

[ThaWholigan]

Oh yeah. I forgot. The nice boring guys are in the same category as the crackhead guys. But the okay looking girls are not in the same category as the crackhead (or nice but fat or old) girls. Right?

 

I'm always confused about this.

Basically, most average men and nice guys have no options, no women like them, ever - while women get their pick of any man of their choosing because men are so thirsty for pussy so women have all these options.

 

It's hilarious to me because of everything I have seen, that couldn't be further from the truth. I even named it as one of my top 5 myths in Revolver's thread

[Woggle]

People tend to base their view on their own experiences and from experiences both genders think they have it worse. It's easy to come to conclusions when you don't have to experience it from the other side.

[tbf]

Are YOU interested in dating a very fat, ugly girl?

You forgot to add that this girl is a really nice person who holds down a great job.

[GoodOnPaper]

Why is not being interested in somebody "due to an entitlement complex"?

 

Yet it's "entitlement" when a struggling guy expresses that he wants an attractive partner . . .

 

In general, I think the gender differences stem from men and women placing value on different phases of dating/relationships. For a lot of men, "success" is defined at the initial meeting/attraction stage. If you can attract women regularly, you'll eventually find "the one". It's not a big deal if a particular relationship lasts just a few dates -- we value the experience, especially the sex experience. When you can't attract women regularly, that's when there's pressure.

 

From what I have seen and read, it's reaching the exclusive relationship that many women are more concerned about. Something that lasts 1 or 2 dates is a waste of time -- an LTR that breaks up may even be considered a waste of time if marriage was her goal. The attraction phase can usually be taken for granted, so being able to attract lots of guys doesn't matter much, it's all about attracting the right one.

 

Of course, YMMV with the generalizations, but in the end I think there is a big apples-and-oranges empathy hurdle to overcome.

[Els]

In general, I think the gender differences stem from men and women placing value on different phases of dating/relationships. For a lot of men, "success" is defined at the initial meeting/attraction stage. If you can attract women regularly, you'll eventually find "the one". It's not a big deal if a particular relationship lasts just a few dates -- we value the experience, especially the sex experience. When you can't attract women regularly, that's when there's pressure.

 

From what I have seen and read, it's reaching the exclusive relationship that many women are more concerned about. Something that lasts 1 or 2 dates is a waste of time -- an LTR that breaks up may even be considered a waste of time if marriage was her goal. The attraction phase can usually be taken for granted, so being able to attract lots of guys doesn't matter much, it's all about attracting the right one.

 

Of course, YMMV with the generalizations, but in the end I think there is a big apples-and-oranges empathy hurdle to overcome.

 

This may well be true. But IMO, healthy people are capable of empathy towards others who are genuinely seeking help, regardless of gender lines and whether or not they subscribe to similar views of relationships.

 

FWIW, the latest resurrection of this consolidated thread was due to a few male posters attacking a female poster who was expressing empathy towards a male poster who was unhappy with his lack of dating success. Their rationale was that she apparently had no right to display empathy because she cannot possibly get it due to being female.

 

Much of the 'unsuccessful' posters who draw a lot of ire are not receiving it due to gender discrepancies, but rather due to the lack of empathy that they themselves display. There are plenty of men who empathize with women despite having different definitions of success/failure, and vice versa. ThaWholigan and Phoe are great examples of such.

[atomicdog]

Maybe women have it easier than men. Maybe not. La la la, who cares? I'm a guy and can always use prostitutes if going gets rough. That's an option for me

 

Same here. Seriously.

 

I recently discovered a brothel just down the road from my apartment. Cheap as chips, and the women are decent looking.

 

Great way to have some fun and let out some sexual energy without having to waste time and money.

 

Guys shouldn't be ashamed of this; unfortunately the culture says we should.

[atomicdog]

But, as was stated in another thread, Europe is better than the US in this regard. Men are treated a bit better.

 

No kidding.

 

Women in Australia think you're weird if you say 'Hi', try to talk to them, etc.

 

In Europe they think you're weird if you don't. Just one example out of many: I got on a train, sat next to a beautiful German girl, had the easiest time making conversation and finding common ground. Lots of eye contact and almost body contact. Got off the train and kissed her goodbye.

 

If it hadn't been for my huge nervousness and uncertainty (probably a result of being so used to Aussie chicks treating me like crap), I probably could have gone much further with her.

 

I think Europeans have a healthier attitude toward sex than Aussies/Americans.

[Phoe]

FWIW, the latest resurrection of this consolidated thread was due to a few male posters attacking a female poster who was expressing empathy towards a male poster who was unhappy with his lack of dating success. Their rationale was that she apparently had no right to display empathy because she cannot possibly get it due to being female.

 

I just feel bad that Teknoe's thread got destroyed and he wasn't even here. He made one post just venting his feelings and the whole thing got blown up

[ThaWholigan]

You assume that, because some of us men here say that women have it easier than men and are the favored gender in society, we are unsuccessful with them.

 

You assume that we're bitter and girls respond poorly to us.

 

Now, if you've followed my posts at all, have I ever spoke of personally struggling with women? The answer is no.

 

I'm merely commenting on what I've observed.

 

In fact, and no offense to him, but ThaWholigan has stated many times that he only recently started having success with women. So his dating experience is limited. I used to think like him when my dating (and life) experience was more limited as well. This changed as I got older and traveled much further down the woman wormhole.

 

But I'm a man and I disagree with you all. So commence the shaming, ladies.

No matter how far down the "wormhole" I travel, I will always think the way I do - no matter the experience.

[serial muse]

How could you possibly know how you will respond to realizations that you haven't had yet?

 

Experience changes people, my friend.

 

Yeah. Well, the one experience you will never have is that of being a woman, and yet you feel qualified to discount a woman's stated experience on the mere basis that she is one and therefore cannot be having the experience she says she is. But you'll never really know, will you - as you acknowledge above.

 

In other words, you can't have it both ways.