Second Chances? Heck, I'm on my sixteenth.

[youngnlove89]

I would not operate with the term "commitment phobe" I think the focus on commitment is the wrong perspective, but I said enough.

 

I'm confused :/

[bdizzle]

It's not considered cheating when there's no commitment.

[lula69]

I would not operate with the term "commitment phobe" I think the focus on commitment is the wrong perspective, but I said enough.

I'm confused :/

What are you confused about? May be its better not to look at my larger story for any kind of example or even having any bearing on your story. I was not commitment phobe nor was she. I was running in with commitment. But again that isn't so important.

 

My point is that there is a "game" called Romantic Love and it can go horribly wrong when focusing on the wrong things. This is particularly a woman issue. Men have their issues of course, but you are the woman here so it's more important to pay attention to your part.

 

Women tend to take a passive role in relationships, wanting to be "romanced" and want someone who "makes me happy". What that really entails is not quite clear to anyone including her.

 

But there is no shortness of beliefs (many of them false). Here they go:

- Women are more relational, men more sexual

- Woman want commitment, men want sex

- Women want intimacy, men want sex

- Women don't care so much about looks, men are visual

- Women are naturally monogamous, men stray

- Women need to feel safe to have sex

- Women are more virtuous, men are more vicious

- Women are victims, men are predators

- Women don't like sex that much

- Women are more tender, men are more hurting

- Women's greatest joy is to be married and have a "family"

- Women care about feelings, men are emotionally retarded

- Women should put out to make sure their husband doesn't stray

- Size doesn't matter

The truth is very different. Some of it you already noticed on yourself. You like sex very much. You may not even care all that much about the wholesomeness of the relationship because the sex is good. You are turned on by the chase that you have to do.

 

You probably still believe that you want to be married and have a family. Many do. And after they broke off with the unsafe "jerk" they go for the safe guy, the nice guy. The one who wants nothing more than commit. Lock in the lucky strike. And there you have your commitment, soon you have your wedding, and your kids, and now you are happy because he gave you all you wanted and what more does a woman want than be married, have a "family", and a loving faithful husband.

 

Except, then she gets bored. Or they just don't get along. Because each just plays their role and anxiously conforms to the expectation. Inside things look different. The nice guy either can not put out sex (one of the respondents of this thread has this issue) or does not even want to. Many women report their man is not up for the sex they need (surprise surprise). Or there does not need to be anything wrong with the guy. He may be just fine in bed, but a long term relationship and the kids and all this does stress and its not sexy and romantic, and many couples have no clue how to preserve "sexy" in their life, too busy with meeting expectations of a good girl while he doesn't get over his porn issue.

 

She looses interest in him the marital passion disappears. Nobody is happy. She will get cold, he still wants sex. But she rejects him, he bugs her, gets more and more needy but also angry because he is being rejected. Not just the sex, she doesn't have affection for him either. He tries but she lost it. She is busy with stuff, kids, PTA, soccer mom, social functions, volunteering, anything to stay far.

 

But she is horny

 

Then, one fine day, mid cycle, her searching eyes sees that other man. Their gazes meets and you take it from there.

 

Happens a lot. A most recent scientific study from 2009 shows that the incidence of infidelity among men and women is not statistically different. It's about 20% chance of infidelity in the current primary relationship of about 7 years. Being married makes infidelity more likely.

 

When that happens, where is the commitment?

 

Point being, commitment, marriage, having a "family" is not what makes people happy, and women are no more capable to keep it together than are men. Starvation makes hungry people and hungry people eat.

 

That is why its not about commitment, and commitment phobia is a pseudo diagnosis. What matters is just the objective behavioral truths: are you guys together more often than not? When you are together are you happy? Are you getting along? Do you have ways to recover from arguments? Can you keep the passion alive? Do you take responsibility for keeping the passion alive? Are you really honest with each other about what you need (in the present)? Do you know his fantasies does he know yours? Can you really open up?

 

Can you see the entire man you have here and can you stomach it?

 

This incident where he was like a baby, you're very honest about your feelings. It took you by surprise. Can you fit that into your picture? Can you do baby play and does that not take away from your capability to feel passionate as well? Is there room to becoming really known to each other without losing the spark? This is a very tricky thing. Can you own your sexuality and passion? Or do you depend on the right mood which something else you can't control has to somehow remain responsible for? Hard to tell. Is your sexuality an unconscious means of getting commitment? Ah commitment again.

 

There is so much present moment issues of happiness to focus on, that these big questions of commitment and kids and all are secondary. If you learn to just be together and be happy and recover from snafus and keep that space between you two where passion can grow but still be known and know each other honestly, wow, this is so much to work on. If that works out, everything else follows. If that does not work out to enough of an extent, commitment-shmomitment now won't matter later.

Edited May 30, 2013 by lula69

[youngnlove89]

My point is that there is a "game" called Romantic Love and it can go horribly wrong when focusing on the wrong things. This is particularly a woman issue. Men have their issues of course, but you are the woman here so it's more important to pay attention to your part.

 

Interesting, I'm listening...

 

Women tend to take a passive role in relationships, wanting to be "romanced" and want someone who "makes me happy". What that really entails is not quite clear to anyone including her.

 

uhuh....right...I see..

 

But there is no shortness of beliefs (many of them false). Here they go:

- Women are more relational, men more sexual

- Woman want commitment, men want sex

- Women want intimacy, men want sex

- Women don't care so much about looks, men are visual

- Women are naturally monogamous, men stray

- Women need to feel safe to have sex

- Women are more virtuous, men are more vicious

- Women are victims, men are predators

- Women don't like sex that much

- Women are more tender, men are more hurting

- Women's greatest joy is to be married and have a "family"

- Women care about feelings, men are emotionally retarded

- Women should put out to make sure their husband doesn't stray

- Size doesn't matter

 

So men want sex? Women want a relationship? Or is that just what society has taught us?

 

The truth is very different. Some of it you already noticed on yourself. You like sex very much. You may not even care all that much about the wholesomeness of the relationship because the sex is good. You are turned on by the chase that you have to do.

 

Yes, I love the sex. And you are right, I obviously don't care all that much about the wholesomeness, because the sex is great. But it is more than just sex. It is the connection, the intimacy. The love. Passion.

 

Happens a lot. A most recent scientific study from 2009 shows that the incidence of infidelity among men and women is not statistically different. It's about 20% chance of infidelity in the current primary relationship of about 7 years. Being married makes infidelity more likely.

 

Funny, this is exactly what my guy says. He says marriage ruins the relationship. He said you don't have to be married to be happy with each other.

 

Point being, commitment, marriage, having a "family" is not what makes people happy, and women are no more capable to keep it together than are men. Starvation makes hungry people and hungry people eat.

 

I think that is very true. I like the way you think.

 

Are you guys together more often than not? Yes as much as our schedules allow.

When you are together are you happy? VERY. Always.

Are you getting along? Yes.

Do you have ways to recover from arguments? Yes, by laughing it off. or maybe going in separate rooms till we cool down.

Can you keep the passion alive? Most definitely

Do you take responsibility for keeping the passion alive? We both do.

Are you really honest with each other about what you need (in the present)? This is where it gets sticky. I am honest, but I ask too many of the same questions over and over. I talk to much about commitment. It scares him. He will listen. But he shuts down. He gets tired of me asking things again and again, when he just wants to be happy and stop trying to label the relationship and rather just enjoy it

Do you know his fantasies does he know yours? Can you really open up? Yes, we definitely don't have a problem opening up as far as personal secretive issues and fantasies go. I can tell him anything and feel comfortable and so can he.

 

Can you see the entire man you have here and can you stomach it? That is why I am still with him. Because I want to help him. I want him to know I am safe. That I won't hurt him. That he can trust me.

 

This incident where he was like a baby, you're very honest about your feelings. It took you by surprise. Can you fit that into your picture? Can you do baby play and does that not take away from your capability to feel passionate as well? Is there room to becoming really known to each other without losing the spark? This is a very tricky thing.

 

I think what struck me was it was not like him...he was like a boy in puppy love. It was like he opened up to me in a different way. It didn't bother me and afterward I liked it, but it was something I didn't expect, like him getting close to me. It wouldn't take away the capability to feel passionate, not at all. I love learning more about him...I love that he can be comfortable around me...it makes me comfortable.

 

Is there room to becoming really known to each other without losing the spark? It's been 2 years hasn't it? Every time we see each other, I've never felt like I've lost the spark.

 

Can you own your sexuality and passion? Or do you depend on the right mood which something else you can't control has to somehow remain responsible for? Hard to tell. Is your sexuality an unconscious means of getting commitment? Ah commitment again.

 

Yes and yes. I am always in the mood. So is he. As far as it being an unconscious means of getting commitment...I don't think that has ever been my intentions, but I want to pleasure him and make him happy...make him crave me like I crave him.

 

There is so much present moment issues of happiness to focus on, that these big questions of commitment and kids and all are secondary. If you learn to just be together and be happy and recover from snafus and keep that space between you two where passion can grow but still be known and know each other honestly, wow, this is so much to work on. If that works out, everything else follows. If that does not work out to enough of an extent, commitment-shmomitment now won't matter later.

 

So you are saying that if him and I are just happy, devoted, love each other, enjoy each others company, are passionate, and best friends....then commitment shouldn't be the main priority. Because in the end, it's being happy that matters the most. Just because you are married, have kids, own a house and all that doesn't mean you are happy together. Is that right?

 

As for the bold part...keep space between us where passion can grow but still be known...can you emphasize on that....

 

 

PS he just texted me he loves me.

Edited May 30, 2013 by youngnlove89
added more.

[youngnlove89]

It's not considered cheating when there's no commitment.

 

We made a commitment to each other to not sleep with other people. We both said that if someone else enters the picture, we both have enough respect for one another to let the other person know. I do believe that. I do trust him. I know he is monogamous. His friends told me he is a good guy and has never cheated on a girl.

[Leigh 87]

ughhhh younglove!

 

Don't assume that the lack of commitment is not an issue!

 

Disregard what that last poster said, about just being happy cos' things are going well!

 

Everyone on here with real experience and success at health relationship, can attest that being happy when your WITH a guy is NOT necessarily enough for a lasting relationship to be a healthy option!

....................

 

It is possible to have fun with a guy and get something really nice out of the relationship.............................

 

EVEN if their jerks!

You know that your dude is just a ****ttty guy for YOU to be in a relationship with.

I know how it feels!

I enjoyed being in my failed relationship too, yet HE was a jerk!

 

I can see that my ex was a jerk for what he did to me! He brought me presents for my birthdays, Christmas, and valentines day though!

He texted good morning and goodnight when we were apart, he wanted to marry me and have a future with me, we went on holidays together, had dogs together and lived together. I trusted him when he went out to a club.

 

Everything he did was lovely, except: HE SAW HOOKERS and sexted girls online!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Having a fun time is NOT ENOUGH.

We need MORE from guys who we are in love with.

 

....................................

 

EVEN though we have issues that probably render us impossible.

 

You have commitment issues. I have issues that hold me back from being ready to be in a relationship.

 

EVEN If these dudes WERE right for us, WE have to be alone so we can figure out own sh*t!

[Leigh 87]

We made a commitment to each other to not sleep with other people. We both said that if someone else enters the picture, we both have enough respect for one another to let the other person know. I do believe that. I do trust him. I know he is monogamous. His friends told me he is a good guy and has never cheated on a girl.

 

 

You are probably right about the cheating. Still, even if he is good to most people in general, what he is doing to you is almost as bad as cheating.

 

Your guy knows full well your in love with him and you want him to want to commit to you, to want to marry you, to want MORE with you.

 

He knows how you feel, he KNOWS you would be better off with a guy who can offer you that.

 

Yet he stays with you because HE really enjoys the relationship.

 

He is being selfish, even though he probably does not mean to be.

 

I Just think he KNOWS that deep down, you would be better off if he just left you the heck alone.

 

Although I know it is more complicated with some men; they really do not CONSCIOUSLY mean to harm us, they simply think of themselves to much.

 

I think he justifies things because he is selfish; he knows you need more and letting you find that is better in the long run, but HE enjoys this arrangement so much that he justifies it by the fact that YOU seem to enjoy it, too.

 

He wants to have you around, knows you're not going to get what you deserve out of the relationship, knows your better off without him, yet he sees you enjoy your time with him a lot and so he justifies it all.

[aisuru]

We made a commitment to each other to not sleep with other people. We both said that if someone else enters the picture, we both have enough respect for one another to let the other person know. I do believe that. I do trust him. I know he is monogamous. His friends told me he is a good guy and has never cheated on a girl.

 

YNL... I realize he may never have cheated so I'm not going to speak to your specific scenario necessarily.

 

So I'm going to make a generalization.. based on my life experiences and my many guys friends I've known over the years. And my own life.

 

I do not know one guy friend of mine that has cheated whose friends would actually tell the girl they want to be in a relationship or have sex with that the guy has cheated in the past. EVER. That's like one of the codes of friendship. It also applies to women. I mean come on...

 

Take whatever friends tell you with a grain of salt.

[lula69]

Youngnlove89, I think you got it. This "Women are ... men are ..." stuff is what we are made to believe about ourselves and the opposite sex. It's mostly lies. But not just innocent lies. People waste their lifetimes and chances not accepting even who they are because they have a false image of themselves, let alone the other. Women who believe in their virtuous victim nature are the worst offenders because they don't even see who they are, and how can you change what you can't see about yourself. On the other side, men often have a too negative picture about themselves, especially the Nice Guys, and they too can't be authentic because they try to be someone they are not and fu*k up that way.

 

The only concern I have is when you said "I want to help him" ... this is cute if you have this instinct. But if you are in this to help him over some massive problem, say alcoholism or anger issues, you will likely frustrate yourself. But that may not have been what you meant.

 

Your relationship sounds like a pretty good thing so far. But make sure you keep listening to your experience in the moment. It's not like just jolly happy moment, its the whole thing. The sadness too. The depth. And the uncomfortable things, the conflicts and disappointments, the whole package.

 

You feel if you are there if you have space if you matter. There are both men and women who may pretty regularly disregard and overrule their partner, that's frustrating. But I don't hear that being the case from what you report. Though you may be on a high right now and are not remembering the difficult moments. But from now on you will continue to keep awareness for the moment and you will know. Not react with the lizzard brain, just become aware.

 

What he does not want is become "victim" to the commitment game that is very well known. But you will naturally over time talk about the future. You already did. He already told you that kids are not out of the question for him. Naturally as the months pass and peace enters your relationship, you will talk about next steps.

 

Never believe anybody (man or woman) who says "I would never" or who disown all responsibility or all possibility. And also, take hurt people's resentment with a grain of salt. You don't know what went down wrong with other people. Don't judge anyone using schemata like "he's a jerk" or "she's a bitch" and stuff.

 

Its good that you have positive testimony about his "character". Look at what his real qualities are also outside of your relationship. What's he like as a person? What's he doing for a living? How does he treat other people? How does he treat inferiors, employees, service people? How does he deal with superiors? How does he deal with conflict? What's his purpose in life? Can you be proud of what he does? Those are things that matter long term.

Edited May 30, 2013 by lula69

[youngnlove89]

Its good that you have positive testimony about his "character". Look at what his real qualities are also outside of your relationship. What's he like as a person? What's he doing for a living? How does he treat other people? How does he treat inferiors, employees, service people? How does he deal with superiors? How does he deal with conflict? What's his purpose in life? Can you be proud of what he does? Those are things that matter long term.

 

Thanks for all the great advice and giving me your time to help me out. He is a good person. And I am proud of him. He has a good job with the government and he treats people well. He is the type who would rather have a few good friends than many acquaintances. A lot of people always ask him if he has served or is serving in the military. He is clean cut and built. Although he might not be what is noted as "best" in relationships, he is a kind spirit, means well, very mature and handles conflict well. He is the type of person that when reaches one goal, makes another right away without giving himself a chance to celebrate his achievement. He is a go-getter.

Aisuru- I understand what you mean and I don't take friends advice to heart. But I didn't ask them if he was loyal, they just came to me and told me he is. I think that makes a difference. Plus, I don't need to hear it from his friends to know it. I know he probably has flirted with women here and there, checked girls out (as I have with men), but I know he would never act on anything. I know that much.

Leigh87-

I Just think he KNOWS that deep down, you would be better off if he just left you the heck alone.

He knows. He told me once I deserve better. But I told him I'm sticking around. That I like him. It's just happens to be I like him more than I like the situation.

 

Every relationship is different in the end. Some people prefer guys who can say they love them, possibly mean it, text them good morning and goodnight, but see hookers and sext other women. They don't like the situation, but they love the man. What is worth more?

 

My guy might not be chivalrous, he might not take me out with his friends all the time, he might have his own life separate from mine, he might not be the type to buy gifts and flowers, he might be arrogant at times, but god, at least I know he isn't doing anything behind my back. I've been cheated on before. I've been with the guy who was "Mr. Perfect" he bought me flowers, showered me with gifts, took me on trips, cooked me dinner, moved in together, but in the end he deceived me, lied to me, cheated on me. I rather have the former if I'm honest. Loyalty or lies?

[Drseussgrrl]

Thanks for all the great advice and giving me your time to help me out. He is a good person. And I am proud of him. He has a good job with the government and he treats people well. He is the type who would rather have a few good friends than many acquaintances. A lot of people always ask him if he has served or is serving in the military. He is clean cut and built. Although he might not be what is noted as "best" in relationships, he is a kind spirit, means well, very mature and handles conflict well. He is the type of person that when reaches one goal, makes another right away without giving himself a chance to celebrate his achievement. He is a go-getter.

Aisuru- I understand what you mean and I don't take friends advice to heart. But I didn't ask them if he was loyal, they just came to me and told me he is. I think that makes a difference. Plus, I don't need to hear it from his friends to know it. I know he probably has flirted with women here and there, checked girls out (as I have with men), but I know he would never act on anything. I know that much.

Leigh87-

He knows. He told me once I deserve better. But I told him I'm sticking around. That I like him. It's just happens to be I like him more than I like the situation.

 

Every relationship is different in the end. Some people prefer guys who can say they love them, possibly mean it, text them good morning and goodnight, but see hookers and sext other women. They don't like the situation, but they love the man. What is worth more?

 

My guy might not be chivalrous, he might not take me out with his friends all the time, he might have his own life separate from mine, he might not be the type to buy gifts and flowers, he might be arrogant at times, but god, at least I know he isn't doing anything behind my back. I've been cheated on before. I've been with the guy who was "Mr. Perfect" he bought me flowers, showered me with gifts, took me on trips, cooked me dinner, moved in together, but in the end he deceived me, lied to me, cheated on me. I rather have the former if I'm honest. Loyalty or lies?

 

Good lord YNL. Just because he isn't banging other girls behind your back doesn't mean he's good for you. Is that really the standard you have for yourself? He's got you right where he wants you - putting up the bare minimum which you lap up like a puppy so he can get sex and fun times whenever he wants it.

 

I seriously want to shake you.

[youngnlove89]

LOL haha you really laid into Leigh with not wanting nice guys who see hookers and sext.

 

I didn't mean it that way! I just mean I would hate to be in her situation with the hookers and sexting. That's horrible and nobody deserves that.

 

Strange that your bf said you deserve better. Maybe he just said it once and didn't mean it?

 

Not sure.

 

I would keep dating him if he's going to make the relationship official. None of this just tell me when you start seeing some one else. It doesn't have to be me and you together forever. Just me and you and we're not looking to date any one else sorta thing. This about the only thing that needs to change at this point

 

We already agreed to that.

 

Also he doesn't need to spend money but should put some effort into making you feel special on vday, bday, xmas, new years, anniversaries, and special events like a wedding, job promotion, new job. Also be there if your car (life) breaks down at least in spirit maybe you call AAA. Moving, rides to the airport that kind of thing. As well as you for him.

 

Exactly. He should. He has been there to help me with my car many times. He changed my brakes for me. He has helped me move too. I know he is there for me when I need him, as I am too.

 

He could easily steal flowers for you on Vday for example. I mean I once ripped off some beautiful flowers for my woman that were planted in front of the supreme court. It's the thought that counts and stealing them makes it free and more bad ass.

 

haha. I agree. The flowers thing isn't that hard!

[youngnlove89]

Good lord YNL. Just because he isn't banging other girls behind your back doesn't mean he's good for you. Is that really the standard you have for yourself? He's got you right where he wants you - putting up the bare minimum which you lap up like a puppy so he can get sex and fun times whenever he wants it.

 

I seriously want to shake you.

 

 

Absolutely. But obviously me running away every time isn't working for me. As I keep coming back. I need to change what I'm doing.

 

A very wise friend of mine pointed this out to me, he said what I'm doing right now isn't working by running away, so instead you should just stay with him, accept it for what it is right now, and start to rebuild your life while you have plenty of time to do it. Use him as a compliment to your life, but go out there and meet new people, find new hobbies, make new friends and be a better you. Eventually you will either realize you don't want to be with this guy anymore because life has shown you there is more out there or you will meet someone else that can give you more and that you like.

[Drseussgrrl]

Absolutely. But obviously me running away every time isn't working for me. As I keep coming back. I need to change what I'm doing.

 

A very wise friend of mine pointed this out to me, he said what I'm doing right now isn't working by running away, so instead you should just stay with him, accept it for what it is right now, and start to rebuild your life while you have plenty of time to do it. Use him as a compliment to your life, but go out there and meet new people, find new hobbies, make new friends and be a better you. Eventually you will either realize you don't want to be with this guy anymore because life has shown you there is more out there or you will meet someone else that can give you more and that you like.

 

But you know and we all know that you can't just breezily date him while you "figure things out". For crying out loud, just a few pages ago you were asking about xanax because he hadn't called you that day.

 

You need to stop lying to yourself. You are not and have not been ok with this "relationship" because deep down in your heart, you know he's not in love with you.

[youngnlove89]

But you know and we all know that you can't just breezily date him while you "figure things out". For crying out loud, just a few pages ago you were asking about xanax because he hadn't called you that day.

 

You need to stop lying to yourself. You are not and have not been ok with this "relationship" because deep down in your heart, you know he's not in love with you.

 

I wasn't going to use xanax because he didn't call me. It's because this whole thing gets me anxious, I don't handle situations well. I get anxiety from anything stressful. But now that Lula69 has talked to me, I understand things differently. I am willing to work on me. Maybe him and I won't be together forever, maybe he will meet someone, maybe I will, but this time I'm thinking about now rather than something that is out of my control.

 

I am not okay with this relationship. But I can't just go NC and move on at this point. I've tried that, how many times? Maybe my problem is that I need to do something different. Make a new life for me, meet new people, join a club, whatever it may be.

 

Time will only tell. In the end, if things don't work out, at least I will have a support group of friends and family and hobbies to get me through it. Right now, I have none of that. This weekend I already have plans for ME, he asked to hang out and normally I would ditch any plans I had for him, but not this weekend. I will be with family and friends. We are going 4 wheeling again and going out to baseball games. And I'll hangout with him when I have time. I'm trying a different approach.

[na49]

You can't work on yourself while you're in a relationship with him when your relationship with him is the whole reason you need to work on yourself in the first place.

 

and I don't really think you worked on yourself much in your time apart. Going to the gym isn't a magic bullet that solved all of your problems.

[youngnlove89]

You can't work on yourself while you're in a relationship with him when your relationship with him is the whole reason you need to work on yourself in the first place.

 

and I don't really think you worked on yourself much in your time apart. Going to the gym isn't a magic bullet that solved all of your problems.

 

Who I am is who I was before him.

 

I'm the one who has to deal with consequences of my actions, not any of you. I don't mean that to be harsh. I'm just saying. What I end up doing won't affect any one else but Me.

 

Me leaving him hasn't worked for me. I can't right now.

 

I'm happier when I'm with him than being alone. So if I can at least be happy while I find myself and learn to build a separate life from then I can accomplish two things at once. Then I can decide what is best after that.

[youngnlove89]

1. He travels for work and is gone for a week or more at a time. Commitment-phobes, tend to choose jobs that allow for a lot of flexibility to travel, not work in an office and control their own schedules. This lifestyle also makes it easier to be unfaithful.

 

 

This false in my situation. He does have a different schedule. He doesn't have weekends off, but weekdays. And he works a "Swing" shift, instead of a normal 8-5.

 

 

 

2. You haven’t met each other’s friends, family and/or co-workers.Commitment-phobes cannot be transparent with their activities. They tend to compartmentalize the different parts of their life. You won’t know what their work life is like and you probably won’t get to know their friends. They have a strong need to be able to hide what they are doing so they don’t have to explain themselves. They can concoct some amazing excuses for why you can’t meet their friends.

 

Also false. I have met his friends and family. He took me on a trip 2 states over to go meet his family and friends. He has met my family and friends. BUT I don't hang out with him and his friends as much anymore. Probably because they are all getting divorces, so it's just the men hanging out.

 

 

 

3. You haven’t seen his home, and if you have, it looks more like a hotel room. Commitment-phobes have a habit of living a vagabond lifestyle. Their own homes are often nothing more than a way-station to shower, change clothes and stay on those rare occasions they can’t stay with you.

 

 

False! I have seen his home and it doesn't look like a hotel room.

 

 

 

4. He’s attentive and charming when you’re together. Commitment-phobes move in fast. They use their charm and learned social skills to pursue you ardently until they win you over. Once they have you, the less attractive parts of their personality start to show.

 

 

True. I can see that.

 

 

 

5. He’s a last-minute planner. Planning time with you is a form of commitment to you. The Commitment-phobe is going to be uncomfortable if you take charge of how the two of you spend your time. As part of his normal mode of operation he’s going to want to stay in control of what the two of you do with your time together. If he does agree to do something you want to do, he’ll typically be late or cancel at the last minute.

 

 

Also true. He does plan last minute but he has never been late or cancelled on me, EVER. That's one quality I really like.

 

 

 

6. You feel crazy. The Commitment-phobe finds a way to blame you for the situation you find yourselves in and you start doubting yourself and wonder if you are the crazy one. If you confront him he won’t want to talk about it. He might become moody and behave in ways you’ve never seen before in him.

 

 

Very true. As you can see on this thread. I started to blame myself. And when I do confront him, he doesn't want to address it.

 

 

 

7. He lost interest when things got serious. Commitment-phobes love the chase but not the capture. They have a history of brief, passionate relationships that end fairly quickly. They are usually quick to explain these breakups away as being the fault of the former girlfriend.

 

 

This is also true. For 5-6 years he had several short lived flings that lasted a month or two. But ours has last 2 years, but has been off and on. But he never talks bad about an ex. He only has good things to say. He says I'm the third girl he is loved, but the first he has ever really cared about.

 

 

 

 

 

Is he a commitment phobe or is it that I'm just NOT the one?

[Woggle]

I think you are both commitment phobes and that is why you two are attracted to each other. If you finally got what you wanted from him I would bet 100 bucks that you would lose interest. I have seen it happen. For validation purposes you want him to want you that much but deep down I think you don't want commitment. If you did you would have found somebody who can give it to you.

[youngnlove89]

I think you are both commitment phobes and that is why you two are attracted to each other. If you finally got what you wanted from him I would bet 100 bucks that you would lose interest. I have seen it happen. For validation purposes you want him to want you that much but deep down I think you don't want commitment. If you did you would have found somebody who can give it to you.

 

Interesting.

 

Can you reference this?

Can you give me an example why you would think I act this way?

[Woggle]

Interesting.

 

Can you reference this?

Can you give me an example why you would think I act this way?

 

Because people who constantly chase after somebody who won't who won't commit tend to be hunters who look at commitment as a trophy from a man rather than the next step towards building a life. People like this chase after unavailable partners so they can keep chasing. It is mostly subconcious.

[youngnlove89]

Because people who constantly chase after somebody who won't who won't commit tend to be hunters who look at commitment as a trophy from a man rather than the next step towards building a life. People like this chase after unavailable partners so they can keep chasing. It is mostly subconcious.

 

 

Hm. Interesting. I don't know what I would do. But I agree with you on the last part, if I wanted commitment so bad, I would leave him and find someone who can offer that.

 

I've had opportunities to get married, have kids, be with a committed guy who buys me stuff and all that. Several times. I still do to this day. My good guy friend wants to be my boyfriend. But I run away. It scares me. This guy is good looking, but I don't know if I want what he wants. Plus I'm dating my current guy. So obviously my heart is with him.

 

But who knows.

[lula69]

OMG, this goes on and on. Why not give it a rest now?

 

I am not okay with this relationship.

Why? When you spoke about him here, about how you two actually exist in the relationship you didn't have anything not OK.

 

I only hear the gift issue and the fact that he dodges your somewhat clumsy conversation openers about "commitment". These are horribly external issues why is everyone getting so hung up on it? And why are people alleging he is cheating when there is not reason to believe that?

 

What real data do you have allowing these far reaching conclusions about "commitment phobe"? And you beat yourself up for being bi-polar.... Far too many laypeople diagnoses being thrown around. And hugely reactive "solutions" about NC. That description of "the commitment phobe is/does this and that" is such a generic thing, it's not at all a diagnostic instrument. Why get hung up on it?

 

I have not heard a single thing that would seem that this is somehow a singularly unhealthy relationship. Everything YNL said about the actual being together sounds great, in fact superior to many people's relationships. What in the world is this obsession with the break-up pry-bar?

 

If anything this relationship has been severely scarred by all these break-up attempts. And for what? How can a couple learn to trust each other if they are constantly breaking up? Why would I as a man even entertain any "commitment talk" if I am being pressured by reactive retributions of "if you don't do X I will leave you?" If anything, not committing to a woman going at it like this is the honest thing to do. Because "commitment" just because is meaningless.

 

Build a relationship, put the effort in, learn to be calm and non-reactive, and see if the relationship works for you. If you are sure it does not work, the whole break-up thing is getting much easier anyway. You are not specially sick or crazy nor is he.

 

BTW, remember that book Mira Kirshenbaum. "Is He Mr. Right?" [still available used for 12 bucks: http://www.amazon.com/He-Mr-Right-Everything-Before/dp/0307336735]. Work through that to determine the real quality of this relationship.

[lula69]

Darn, I forgot to say what I really came here to say. You said you were considering the following attitude:

 

Use him as a compliment to your life, but go out there and meet new people, find new hobbies, make new friends and be a better you. Eventually you will either realize you don't want to be with this guy anymore because life has shown you there is more out there or you will meet someone else that can give you more and that you like.

 

I can agree to this edited form:

 

"Regard him as a compliment to your life, ... remain out there among people, and have a life, hobbies, friends, and be a better you."

 

That's good, that way you keep working on happiness from within and not suffocate your relationship.

 

What I do not like is this:

 

Use him as ..., but go out there and meet new people, ... make new friends and ... meet someone else that can give you more ....

 

With this attitude you are talking about commitment? What commitment is that from your part?

 

I also don't like this:

Eventually you will either realize you don't want to be with this guy anymore ... or you will meet someone else that can give you more.

If you go at that relationship based on the outlook that it will fail, then it will fail. And if you use him until you find someone who gives you more, it will fail.

 

But worse yet, with that attitude, if you were actually adopting it -- which I don't necessarily see you doing, at least I hope not -- with that attitude you are sure to jeopardize your life. You are going down the selfish commitment rat-hole: press a guy for commitment who can "give you more" and just because "and you like him". Liking someone who gives you stuff is not enough.

 

But I think inside of you you have that sense, the more gentle, loving side which you can strengthen. When you are calm and strong you do not need all this negativity and selfish "use him and get what you need and ditch him later". This is so weak and disingenuous. This isn't who you are deep down in your heart.

[youngnlove89]

Your good guy friends want to be your boyfriend? I wouldn't feel comfortable with my gf seeing or even talking to people like this.

 

During our last break up with my guy and I, I hung out with this old time friend of mine. It was completely platonic and we didn't do anything with each other. Just hung out. I've known him since I was 6. Then after my friend went home, he texted me and said he likes me "more" than a friend. I kind of shut down, but was nice about it. I told him my heart was still with my ex.

 

I did tell my guy about my friend and he was seemingly upset about it. I didn't mean to upset him, just to be honest with him. He had asked, so I answered.

 

That was when we both made promises to each other to not see other people and to be loyal to each other.