For dreamingoftigers (and anyone else, too)

[dreamingoftigers]

OK, I think I have Trippi's situation down, but the above is the friend who stayed with you, right, J? OMG! Did she try with your H?

 

Yes, that's the one.

 

Not when we were married.

 

She and him knew each other before I knew him.

 

And, well, he lived under and bridge and in squats at the time.

 

They both have said that they didn't. ()

 

But honestly she was *ahem* a "squat mattress."

 

BUT in all fairness he didn't tend to date other street girls. That's right. LOL He was a discerning homeless alcoholic. He was even engaged to someone else before me that had a regular job/trade school etc. He quit being homeless to have 2 jobs and live with her and then she eventually dumped him for another guy she was working with. He let the place go and just went back to street life.

 

But honestly, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they had. Not in the least. We lived next door to them for 2 years. Honestly, if H and I divorce, I wouldn't date anyone in an eight-block radius. Maybe even further.

 

My H is taking a polygraph (our next $ goal) so I'll know soon enough. He's cool with it and it actually is part of the SA recovery process for married SAs. Full disclosure (for the spouse) and then Poly. So we can possibly live with them after everything. There are SAs that go for annual polys to keep up with their recovery and continue to demonstrate trustworthiness. IDK about that. We'll see how this one goes.

 

TBH, about a third of them fail their first poly. The vast majority pass after a redone disclosure and poly. I am actually kind of expecting a failed first poly. I suspect that my husband will feel that he's been "honest enough" but he will be in some denial. I truly in my heart believe that a polygraph will actually be a huge aid in his recovery because it will bring things forward that he would have to examine.

 

Second failed poly... oh piss off! Time to file.

 

I haven't told him that I don't think he'll pass the first poly. Although I do believe that he hasn't stepped out since the last time that I know about. I still think that he's in denial about the depth of the earlier events. Honest denial. Completely compartmentalized.

 

I could be wrong though. Enh. I know that a lot of people think that I am "weak" or "doormat" but honestly, I knew the effects of SA not long after he was diagnosed. I've been through all of the trauma and so forth. Now I just have more realistic long-term expectations. I married someone with these issues. I chose to stay through them. I know how the stats look for recovered SAs who pass a second poly after 5 years. I'm okay with that.

[Steen719]

Yes, that's the one.

 

Not when we were married.

 

She and him knew each other before I knew him.

 

And, well, he lived under and bridge and in squats at the time.

 

They both have said that they didn't. ()

 

But honestly she was *ahem* a "squat mattress."

 

BUT in all fairness he didn't tend to date other street girls. That's right. LOL He was a discerning homeless alcoholic. He was even engaged to someone else before me that had a regular job/trade school etc. He quit being homeless to have 2 jobs and live with her and then she eventually dumped him for another guy she was working with. He let the place go and just went back to street life.

 

But honestly, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they had. Not in the least. We lived next door to them for 2 years. Honestly, if H and I divorce, I wouldn't date anyone in an eight-block radius. Maybe even further.

 

My H is taking a polygraph (our next $ goal) so I'll know soon enough. He's cool with it and it actually is part of the SA recovery process for married SAs. Full disclosure (for the spouse) and then Poly. So we can possibly live with them after everything. There are SAs that go for annual polys to keep up with their recovery and continue to demonstrate trustworthiness. IDK about that. We'll see how this one goes.

 

TBH, about a third of them fail their first poly. The vast majority pass after a redone disclosure and poly. I am actually kind of expecting a failed first poly. I suspect that my husband will feel that he's been "honest enough" but he will be in some denial. I truly in my heart believe that a polygraph will actually be a huge aid in his recovery because it will bring things forward that he would have to examine.

 

Second failed poly... oh piss off! Time to file.

 

I haven't told him that I don't think he'll pass the first poly. Although I do believe that he hasn't stepped out since the last time that I know about. I still think that he's in denial about the depth of the earlier events. Honest denial. Completely compartmentalized.

 

I could be wrong though. Enh. I know that a lot of people think that I am "weak" or "doormat" but honestly, I knew the effects of SA not long after he was diagnosed. I've been through all of the trauma and so forth. Now I just have more realistic long-term expectations. I married someone with these issues. I chose to stay through them. I know how the stats look for recovered SAs who pass a second poly after 5 years. I'm okay with that.

 

dot, you must really love this man. I hope it isn't an uphill battle for you for all of your marriage. He really has not had an easy life. How old was he when he became homeless?

 

My XH is in town and wanted to see my son on Thursday night, but son had plans and offered up the weekend. XH said he was busy, so I imagine the gf will be down. (I wonder if that means he will give her the stainless steel appliances again) He never chooses my son. So disappointing. At least he did try for one night. The one thing I learned through this last deal is that I do not need to engage with him other than when I absolutely have to as it still has the potential to make me feel icky. And, no more feeling sorry for him. UGH I knew better. h well, I guess compassion should not be regretted.

[trippi1432]

I think one of the best things I learned through my ordeal Steen, is letting my son come to his own conclusions. I'd hear his complaints over the past couple of years when he was younger...Dad doesn't spend time with me, he has his head up the Princess's a**, he spends time with her kids and not me, they aren't fair with me...always expecting me to do something about it.

 

I never did, wasn't my call to...I have no power over how his father treats him, what he decides to do or not do. I always maintained with my son that is their home and I can do nothing about it nor would I fight with his father about something we fought about for years when it came to our son.

 

Eventually, my son saw the difference. He said to me one day, "Mom, dad always blames you for everything that happens, now he blames me."..and "Mom, I've noticed that since dad left, everything at home is calmer, more peaceful except for when you and I fight. But at Dad's, it seems that nothing has ever changed."

 

Sometimes, the best battles are won by choosing not to fight at all.

[Steen719]

I think one of the best things I learned through my ordeal Steen, is letting my son come to his own conclusions. I'd hear his complaints over the past couple of years when he was younger...Dad doesn't spend time with me, he has his head up the Princess's a**, he spends time with her kids and not me, they aren't fair with me...always expecting me to do something about it.

 

I never did, wasn't my call to...I have no power over how his father treats him, what he decides to do or not do. I always maintained with my son that is their home and I can do nothing about it nor would I fight with his father about something we fought about for years when it came to our son.

 

Eventually, my son saw the difference. He said to me one day, "Mom, dad always blames you for everything that happens, now he blames me."..and "Mom, I've noticed that since dad left, everything at home is calmer, more peaceful except for when you and I fight. But at Dad's, it seems that nothing has ever changed."

 

Sometimes, the best battles are won by choosing not to fight at all.

 

You are quite right about that, Trippi. I would not try to intervene now. During the time that his dad was broken up with gf, he told me that he had been a good father and I told him that putting off seeing his son was painful to son and I didn't understand how he couldn't see it. Father's day is next weekend and last year, son didn't even see him. I took him to dinner. My son is happier living with me and he does not want to stay with his dad, with or without the gf.

 

My XH is critical of everything and everyone. He blamed me for everything and son knows it and has verbalized it.

 

My ex-neighbor called today to tell me some news about her sister and told me that H was back at the house with same gf - per her husband. I assumed it and I also assume there will once again be issues with XH coming down here by himself (and so may affect how much he sees son) as she doesn't trust him around me, She has reasons and if she only knew!

 

And, I guess, after thinking about it, it sort of pisses me off that he went on and on about how he misses his family, wants me back, cries and I try to be a good person, be kind to him and he does not even let me know he has gone back with gf. IDK, am I wrong to think that would be the decent thing to do? Well, that should not be a surprise to me and it isn't, but I just think....sheez....I really think I would have just said good luck, I sure wouldn't have fussed about it and then I remember this is him, the narcissist whose main concern is always him.

[dreamingoftigers]

Before reading this, I just wanted to give a short history of my husband's stuff. I just kept going and it grew. Then I thought, I really need to get this off of my chest. I just ended up wanting to have it written down somewhere. So why not here. NOBODY FEEL OBLIGATED TO READ IT OKAY.

 

Steen719, I only bring this up because you are a Mom and would get the messed-up gravity of what I am saying.

 

dot, you must really love this man. I hope it isn't an uphill battle for you for all of your marriage. He really has not had an easy life. How old was he when he became homeless?

 

15 ish. But he only had a sixth grade education. His mother took him out of school to "home school" him. Which really only meant control the ever-living-crap out of him and get him to work in her store.

 

Ugh. I just. I actually feel a little sick thinking about something that happened over Christmas. I went to see her, she had her massive freakout. Anyhow. I'm sure I wrote about it somewhere. I am the only person I know in the whole family, including the extendeds who will not, under any circumstance allow her to talk to me like I am the scolded family dog. They either ignore her, cut her out or just take it, take it, take it. I NEVER have. I think I know why. She's A LOT like my father and she will emotionally storm you until you break down. BUT not many people can deal with and assert themselves against that easily.

 

I went to a 16-year prep school on the subject.

 

I am notoriously awful for not becoming aggressive or passive to passive-aggressive assault from someone in my face. I am even worse for never loosing my cool in front of someone (until I started taking Wellbutrin, but that's a whole other ballgame. Glad I'm on an eight of a dose now and just about off of it altogether.) I mean it. As of Christmas there is definite correlation and confirmation that he got a lot of those "pull on the chain until they break" patterns from her.

 

I have the longest, heaviest chain of anyone that I have ever met. Especially after being treated for BPD. It went from everything setting me off to being practically frozen in place despite pressure. Not much floods me emotionally anymore. I can see where the issues I have are, but I don't tend to get pulled off of my feet during arguments. Very few people can tip that threshold. My mother used to be more stoic, even cold when my father would go off. She would be able to keep herself in check for awhile and then my father would go around pushing every single button he could find of her's until she'd get frustrated, snap and then he'd flip it around to how "no one loves him, he does everything for everyone and we treat him like crap, he's just a big joke to everyone blah blah blah." Then my mother would feel guilty and comfort him about his childhood and reassure him repeatedly and he would tell her that he didn't believe her. Until finally after hours she would get him calmed down. I witnessed this scene almost nightly as a child. It was so ingrained watching my father get loaded, blow a fit at either mom or me. If it was at me, then it was physical and my mother turned a blind eye or yelled at him to stop if it got way too far.

 

The message I got so firmly, firmly implanted in my brain is, never, never lose your reason during an argument. Keep firm to your point. Keep your wits about you. Always. Because the second that you let someone press that button and you snap back: you've committed to the night to have them be a character-shredding nutcase. And you get to clean up the mess. Ugh.

 

My mother had two disabled children besides me. She didn't have the energy nor inclination to do much of the household things needed. I basically had a stay-on-couch Mom. Now I know why. He exhausted her. She was dumb to keep going with it but he really, really did. I don't know if she even had enough of a mental and emotional break to process any of it. I know that I didn't get one with my husband until I sent him out.

 

So I don't break to emotional manipulation. It doesn't mean that I won't reason or bend. I'm actually pretty darn flexible as long as we're both on a relatively even keel. But the split-second I hear the victim/bully stance, I clam right up. If I envision it mentally, it's like a giant cement wall with the ocean waves crashing against it. That's how I survived the addiction years with my husband. Unfortunately it also prolonged them for reasons that I'll cover. Hopefully briefly. I am so long-winded sometimes! It's not always a good thing because I tend to get involved with people that are completely mind-fuc*ing and ride things out because it doesn't bother me or raise any alarms until well after it should. I've had to learn more about early signs and weeding this stuff out. It's better now.

 

Anyhow. What both he and his mother need to conclude any type of conflict is to leave as a validated victim. It excuses whatever behaviour they were doing that brought about a sh*tstorm to begin with. God forbid ever asking if one of them could turn the volume down on the TV or "could you pass the salt?"

 

I suspect his mother is untreated BPD, which would completely explain why he ended up with me when I had not finished treatment yet. But she is the most unregulated person mood-wise I have ever met. Even worse than my father. Who really, deserves quite a few accolades in the category. I don't say this lightly. I think that my mother-in-law will put my father-in-law into an early grave. I also think that her behaviour guided her daughter (my husband's biological mother) into one and him toward homelessness. Although there were a couple of other factors that played a role too. Her behaviour was KEY. I DO NOT say that lightly or because she is my mother-in-law. I don't even just take my husband's word for it. Everything that she does she testifies to loudly There isn't much grey area.

 

My husband's mother cannot keep herself together among family long enough to go out for dinner. We've tried three times. Meltdown. Every. Fuc*ing. Time. Loud meltdown. I have no idea why the heck I forgot this over Christmas. It began in a Chinese restaurant where I actually tipped the guy an extra $20 for having to deal with her. It traveled back to her place where I got my things to leave.

 

That's when she started shredding my husband's character and telling me that my daughter didn't look like him. (). Honestly, the paternity thing should have friend my ass, but it didn't it was so beyond the bounds of laughable that it wasn't even worth responding to. My daughter is practically a female looks-clone of my husband. Whatever.

_________________________________________________________

(Cue nostalgic music. )

 

Eight Years Earlier:

 

One time when he was homeless he actually visited her, she refused to let him come into a grocery store with her because it was "too embarrassing, he didn't even have his hair cut." "What would the neighbours think if they saw someone looking like that with me?" (I am so NOT kidding).

 

The very first day I met my mother-in-law we were also announcing our engagement. When we first went back there, she asked if we could buy clean, new clothes and change in her detached shed (and yes it was winter) before going in because she didn't want to deal with "the smell." She hadn't even met or seen us yet. And her son wasn't even homeless anymore. I categorically refused. My father in law backed me on it. (Sometimes he's good for that). So we got to change in the downstairs bathroom.

 

My H left the room we were talking in to go to the washroom or get water or something. She just leaned in and told me that her son stole a blanket from her once. And that she's still so angry at him for wrecking her floor when he was 14. I knew exactly what she was referring to.

 

He had told me before we were engaged about how he had been troubled and some of the more shameful things that he had done. But the worst by far was wrecking his mother's floor. He wasn't "listening." He wasn't "doing well" working in her store etc. He was "out of control" according to her. Honestly from everything I know about his and my childhood, it was deprivational and 14 is when I hit my decisive "not going to take this crap anymore" groove. I am sure that he did something to inflame her. But it probably wasn't even that big of a thing knowing her.

 

Her solution. Her discipline was to have him locked in his room except to work in the store. He was locked in at 14. This isn't conjecture. She's told me this herself. She sees no issue with it. And I've seen her freak solid about noise so I know he couldn't have rebelled that way. He refused to beg to go to the washroom (and honestly he would've probably caught Hell for disturbing her) so he would piss on the floor. They didn't find out right away and it ruined the floor (apparently).

 

She told me this the first day that I met her. One of the first things I ever knew of her and the second thing that she ever told me about her son. The first one was that he was a thief. Ironically he's adamant that he never stole her stupid blanket. And I believe him. She has crocheted blankets which were no good for sleeping outside. All that they would do is sop up water and waste backpack space. And really, who freaks out over their homeless child "stealing a blanket."

 

Later that day I used her washroom and wiped my hands, on the towel that was hanging on the towel rack. This effectively started World War three. She used the washroom after I did and apparently those were her "good towels" "for her and for show." Everyone else is supposed to use the paper towel on the other side of the sink and it was "very rude" for me to just go and use someone's "good towels.":rolleyes:

 

At least I knew that he was telling the solid truth about her. He handled her so well though. So, so well considering. It took him until therapy to actually define what she did as abuse. I can also see how he met me when I was still recovering from BPD and thought I was just amazing. I must have looked like an angel from heaven in comparison.

______________________________________________________

(cue the kind of depressing or suspenseful music, I guess. )

 

Eight years and much stupidity later:

 

She does her freak out at a Chinese restaurant on Christmas.

 

Ironically she has told me about how she wants "nothing to do with him" because of his addictive issues. He's an "embarrassment" and "what would the rest of her family think." She lets him know that she never adopted him for "a reason." But then "she's so disappointed that he doesn't call" and clearly "has no interest in the family." But he does call. He's always the one to call her and tell her what he's doing in life. She often cranks that she's too busy or she'll say that she "doesn't want to hear about all that. Just get to the point." He's actually quite patient with her. Not with me though LOL. He'll tell her, "Mom, it's a conversation." Deaf ears.

 

Now we're just sliding back into the conversation where she suggests that I'm a whore and that he's just a terrible person all around. I can't stand her saying nasty things about him. It makes me indignantly enraged inside. Inside. I hate that he was a victim of her abuse for so long and that he tries with her and she only scolds him and guilts him. Ain't nobody got time for that. But I loathe to watch it. I won't stop him because this is "the best his relationship with his mother has always been" and 'he's already lost one mother and doesn't want to lose two." I respect his efforts and kindness toward her. But I even loathe how she treats me like a "godsend, saviour of her wretched son." She gives him no credit for anything. If he has a great idea, she'll openly praise me for it. Even if I had nothing to do with it. She doesn't get it. It's not flattering. It's insulting and demeaning to her son. Plus she is actually insulting my choice in mate. I loathe it.

 

But she's hit so many buttons, she finally found a heat-seeking missile and hit there. She assaulted his character. 3120 km from where he is, hadn't talked to him in weeks. But she stands there and calls him out for grievances real and imagined. I felt my cheeks go red. And I didn't lose it. In fact, I didn't lose it at all. But she picked up on it and kept going.

 

What I didn't understand is why she kept going, except that she doesn't have much self-control. We've had the boundary discussion before. But even before I knew what a boundary was, I never accepted her calling me or my husband out. And she learned really quickly that I won't play ball with it. Usually she just kisses my butt actually. I try to kind of ignore it. I find it phony. But she did. She told me "this about him" and "that about him." And I actually stood and listened, just like that sea wall. Then she started doing the prodding, "you see? you see? you know I'm right." I did not see.

 

After asking her if she realizes that a very limited amount of family ever come to visit and why she hasn't seen 8/9 grandchildren in years. I just ripped back and told her that if she had a problem with my H's character that maybe she should look into the mirror for a good long time and examine why that was. I said it very coldly too I might add. I haven't ever tried to aim for the jugular with her before. Especially considering I suspected that she might be BPD, I know that psychologically (and even physiologically) that they can't handle criticism very well, unless they are delivering it. Well, she didn't take it well. At all.

 

She flew into a crazy rage. Just yelling and screaming and a whole series of insults and religious condemnations. She literally in the space of about ten minutes oscillated between raging, crying, laughing crazily and then crying again. I AM NOT kidding. etc etc etc. I just stood kind of frozen in shock actually. I thought that she might hit me or something. But she didn't and then she said this: "You can't tell me as a mother that you would ever forgive someone for doing that to your floor."

 

(ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME!?

I know why I rant on LS. There's no way I could rant in real life about the nuttery I've seen and been party to.)

 

I told her that actually yes I could and that holding a 20 year old grudge over a floor was really immature. But that of course made thing much worse. "Did you hear that [father-in-law] she thinks I'm immature?" (Case in point).

 

But then goes on to actually rationally explain it to me, (which I actually give her half marks for). She tried a couple of different scenarios that I didn't really budge on and then came up with, "How would you feel if your daughter turned twelve and said, Mom, I'm going on birth control and sleeping with my 40 year old boyfriend.? You would be so angry at her. You would want to lock her and and scream and yell and set her straight. Wouldn't you!?"

 

I actually said no. (Because I wouldn't be full of rage at my daughter over it. Even if I was, it would be blotted out by the horrid situation that needed to be dealt with. Anyhow. )

 

And then she went on this "did you hear that, she wouldn't even stop her own 12 year old daughter from getting pregnant with some old man blah blah blah."

 

I got pretty pissed here actually and was just like, "NO! That's not what I said. I was saying that I wouldn't be angry at her and taking it out on her. I'd probably move and get her and me into every kind of therapy I could. I wouldn't be "mad" for twenty years about her birth control issue. I would be terrified. The first thought that would come into my head would be RED ALERT What's going on with my daughter? What can I do to protect her? How did I miss this? What do I do now? Is she going to be okay?"

 

Anyway, it gave her the ammo to do a big "she said I'm a terrible mother!" And really, I wasn't about to argue with it (she really won on that point!) So I just hit my limit and left, stayed in a motel and left the next morning. We've talked one time since. Don't even want to hear about it.

 

I felt emotionally burned. If you think about it, he must've been emotionally scalded every day of his childhood.[/b] I was actually scared to call my husband and tell him what happened. I thought that he would be really upset with me because he knows his mother can't handle any criticism and that she still means a lot to him. When I did call him he was actually really really good about it. He was just like, "why in the Hell does she have to act like that all of the time? I don't get it. No one else acts like that. Not even your Dad. Not even your Dad when he's drunk and pissed off!" I just let him know just how much I did love him and that I don't know how he survived. I just could really see how much she would've effected him.

 

I mean, a floor. Not only was she not a mother to him about that. She was more like a prison warden. When my husband finally ended up in juvenile detention and later foster care, he said that he had more freedom in jail than he had at home. He actually liked jail. (I would not be surprised if many juveniles had a similar correlation.) He didn't go on to adult jail through.

 

When he was sixteen a guy "took him under his wing" and gave him a bunch of alcohol and drugs. And then after a week of that said that he "owed" him now. So he had to do a break and enter. He refused and then these two other guys said they were going to break his legs. One actually held a gun to the back of his head saying that if he tried to run he was going down. So either do the B&E or get broken legs. So he did the B&E. Then the cops caught him walking with one of the other guys. But he was the only one with jewelry on him.

 

One of the cops told him to tell them about the guys because they "knew already" but my husband was scared. So he didn't. But the original guy actually showed up at his bail hearing drunk to bail him out. So he waved bail. He never went back into criminal anything after that. He said the gun to the back of his head was the thing that put him off of that forever. He just stayed a bum.

 

Then he met me a bunch of years later.

 

I can see more now why he went right off of the rails. It was like an argument. An argument where he needed someone to lash back. To make him a victim enough to blot out all of his crapola. By the time I finally did actually do something worthy of it, I already was throwing him out. (I bit him one night I caught doing something highly inappropriate. him er, never mind.....) He wore me absolutely down and I didn't know the rules of the game. I only knew the rules of mine. Don't break.

 

Even when he got drunk, trashed the house, called me all sorts of names I just kept my cool and called the police. And then they wouldn't take him out of here because he had to go willingly unless he was being violent toward me. He ended up shouting at me on the front lawn at like 3 in the morning that he was going to "call the cops" because he "wasn't in the wrong." I tried to get him to come back inside and shut the heck up. He woke up the bunch of guys living a couple of doors down. One of the guys wanted to play hero and beat him up. My H even told them I cheated on him! ((OMG I'm actually STILL mad about that! I never cheated on him the jerk!)) I told them that I absolutely did not and that he had actually been cheating on me for years and had even been thrown out because of it. One of the guys knew it was true about my H cheating anyhow. So no one laid any punches. But after that cheating thing I just looked at him and said really meanly "You made your effing bed, you lie in it." And I went back inside and locked the door. So the idiot phoned the police. On himself and sat in the car which got him arrested for "drunk in public." So I brought out his shoes because he was in sock feet.

 

He disappeared after that. I put aside money for our daughter and actually for some therapy for him. I was done with him as a partner as far as I was concerned. But I didn't feel done as being someone that made vows to him. Regardless of how he had treated his vows. I honestly thought that he was just going to disappear and not come back. I really didn't care anymore and actually hoped that was true. But I put the money aside in case he ever did appear. That was, I could do right by my daughter's father. I could have my bases covered for having done all that I could to give her a stable Dad and family despite the circumstances.

 

I felt so much better when he was gone and I was centered. Then came the Social Services review. And they didn't believe that we had split up. Anyhow. The rest is on here. He ended up taking that round of treatment. Dealing with issues. I'm actually pretty shocked and amazed that he A) came back to face the music B) took the treatment C) hasn't relapsed D) is an excellent parent E)Took the domestic violence course and learned more about how to productively deal with his anger F) went back to school G) stuck with it H) decided he wanted his family I) fought for the marriage and went to MC with me J) Has been consistent and sober ever since.

 

I'm proud of him.

 

Are there still issues? Duh. Of course there are. We were both raised in prisons. It's scary when you grow up worried about being schanked. And being schanked by the people that are supposed to love you the most. I used to wish so badly that he could just see that I wasn't going to rip him apart but I sure wasn't going to be okay with the stuff that he was doing either.

 

Things would have been "easier" if I had just doormatted like my Mom. But I knew from seeing my Dad betray her after all of that, that "codependents don't pay dues." It's not an investment, it's a loss. You always have to put out and put out and put out and they never trust you. You are always to blame. And help me help me help me. Ugh. I wasn't willing to let things rest and do that for 40 years.

 

I also wasn't willing to just walk when I felt that there were things that I could do. I kept reading about being optimistic and goal-centered and staying focused. I just knew that it would be okay one way or the other. That I had to keep going because it was my family and my dream had always been to just have my little family. To be completely honest. I've lost some of my focus without a crisis. I have to work on that. I think it's unhealthy.

 

But very few people understand what that's like and how hard it can be to overcome. The odds were extremely against us. I'm not even sure how great they are now.

 

I get so frustrated sometimes still. It just mades me so upset sometimes to think of what I went through. I would hear him complain about the dishes or something and I'd just think, "How would you like to live back in your effing car you dope!" But that's passed a lot lately.

 

I realize that resent means I gave with "expectation." And I know at the time that I didn't. I put all in to satisfy my own self as much as try to reconnect us healthily. The Divorce-Busting 180 was so powerful for me. It made such a difference. I'm glad that I don't have to pay for how my mother-in-law treated my husband any more. He sees the difference.

 

We team up now. He had this big thing about "you never like my ideas." (Which was total malarkey, we used a ton of his ideas, but he felt that way so there's no use in arguing.) But now we actually "team up" for all sorts of house and marriage stuff.

 

The only thing I worry about now is if the whole "save the marriage" thing was a way for me to avoid working on my weight/health. I don't know for sure.

 

My XH is in town and wanted to see my son on Thursday night, but son had plans and offered up the weekend. XH said he was busy, so I imagine the gf will be down. (I wonder if that means he will give her the stainless steel appliances again) He never chooses my son. So disappointing. At least he did try for one night. The one thing I learned through this last deal is that I do not need to engage with him other than when I absolutely have to as it still has the potential to make me feel icky. [/b]And, no more feeling sorry for him. UGH I knew better. h well, I guess compassion should not be regretted.

 

Ugh. That stinks to high Heaven. A LOT.

 

Your son is really going to resent him even more. Especially when he settles down and has his own children. It REALLY compounds it.

 

Then when the resent passes he won't even really care about him.

 

It happened with my Dad. I just think kind of "ew":sick: when I see him. But that's about it. He invited me out for Father's Day and I just think. *sigh* fine. Ew. But then don't bug me until Christmas. I have more attachments to memories of him when I was around my daughter's age. He had his moments back then.

 

Were your son and him ever really close?

[dreamingoftigers]

I think one of the best things I learned through my ordeal Steen, is letting my son come to his own conclusions. I'd hear his complaints over the past couple of years when he was younger...Dad doesn't spend time with me, he has his head up the Princess's a**, he spends time with her kids and not me, they aren't fair with me...always expecting me to do something about it.

 

I never did, wasn't my call to...I have no power over how his father treats him, what he decides to do or not do. I always maintained with my son that is their home and I can do nothing about it nor would I fight with his father about something we fought about for years when it came to our son.

 

Eventually, my son saw the difference. He said to me one day, "Mom, dad always blames you for everything that happens, now he blames me."..and "Mom, I've noticed that since dad left, everything at home is calmer, more peaceful except for when you and I fight. But at Dad's, it seems that nothing has ever changed."

 

Sometimes, the best battles are won by choosing not to fight at all.

 

This I 200% agree with!

 

My mother was always trying to push me and my father into having a relationship with one another. Honestly. If she would've backed off we could have sorted things ourselves. Even if it meant just mutually ignoring each other. She should have protected me. Not tried to pretend that we were the Waltons.

 

After he cheated I really, solidly resented her for trying to push us back together again. She did the same thing at my wedding. Jeez. We can't stand each other. The guy abused me for years, after that he's done some limited apologizing in the last couple years. We aren't super-close. We aren't going to be. Just leave it alone!

 

I think it's bordering on abuse to try to justify to a child or push a child to have a relationship with a totally uninterested parent.

 

You are quite right about that, Trippi. I would not try to intervene now. During the time that his dad was broken up with gf, he told me that he had been a good father and I told him that putting off seeing his son was painful to son and I didn't understand how he couldn't see it. Father's day is next weekend and last year, son didn't even see him. I took him to dinner. My son is happier living with me and he does not want to stay with his dad, with or without the gf.

 

My XH is critical of everything and everyone. He blamed me for everything and son knows it and has verbalized it.

 

My ex-neighbor called today to tell me some news about her sister and told me that H was back at the house with same gf - per her husband. I assumed it and I also assume there will once again be issues with XH coming down here by himself (and so may affect how much he sees son) as she doesn't trust him around me, She has reasons and if she only knew!

 

And, I guess, after thinking about it, it sort of pisses me off that he went on and on about how he misses his family, wants me back, cries and I try to be a good person, be kind to him and he does not even let me know he has gone back with gf. IDK, am I wrong to think that would be the decent thing to do? Well, that should not be a surprise to me and it isn't, but I just think....sheez....I really think I would have just said good luck, I sure wouldn't have fussed about it and then I remember this is him, the narcissist whose main concern is always him.

 

Good for you for not entertaining it at all.

 

And no, don't feel sorry for him. If you want someone to feel sorry for, find a kid starving in Africa to sponsor.

 

He should be feeling sorry for his son and giving him such a loser father. Ugh.

 

Even my Dad invited me out on Father's Day this year. Yeah, it's going to be lunch hearing about how great he thinks he is.

 

Actually.... hmm.... it's really weird. Maybe he's dying or something. Oh well, I'll find out.

 

I'm not saying "punish the dude." But make yourself this promise: "I won't give this man one iota of my time until he gives me five."

 

You be the narcissist when it comes to him. I guarantee you that he will never give you five consistent time efforts in return for one. Ever.

 

One ex-friend I had was so bad that I wrote down a promise in my phone that I would not give her anything that is me until she shows me some kind of appreciation or calls me for something other than to do her a "really important" favor. And that I wouldn't do her another favor until she DID, not just SAID one thing to show me that I was her friend (pretty much to get a favor out of me) at all. I knew that she wouldn't the second I started writing that promise. I also included major incidents as to why. (Iphones are great for notes).

 

The last time I heard from her after saving that in my phone was her getting pissing mad at me for refusing to serve her husband divorce papers for her. How I wasn't "a good friend, I don't think I can even trust you anymore. I really needed this.":rolleyes: I can really, really live with that. If being a friend or partner means being emotionally manipulated. Then no, I am not a "good friend" at all. But I've seen and experienced what emotional manipulation does to people. Forget it.

 

Don't ever let guilt or pity pull your chain.

 

Be compassionate to people who really actually don't have a choice to make anything better. Like sick people or stray dogs.

[Steen719]

Wow, dot. Your m-i-l is nuts alright. I am continually amazed at what people do to their kids and how they still think they are good parents. My first year of graduate school, I did a field placement with Family court. I knew kids who had hard times growing up, but this was worse, much worse. Fathers selling their daughters out of the back of his gas station, that kind of thing. These kids were actually better off in facilities that were not so great either. It was heartbreaking. I think if it were not for you, your H might..well….you must know better than anyone. It doesn’t really matter anyway what others think about what you choose to do within your marriage. A mother of a friend of mine told her that if you took everyone’s problems and threw in a pile, you would probably take yours back. I think that is true because we deal with what we can and what we are used to. What I might be willing to live with is different what you would. Sometimes it’s hard to look at friends and their situations and see I why they do what they do in their relationships, but if I don’t agree with them, I guess that is my issue. There are exceptions and one would be abuse. I would have a difficult time seeing that pattern over and over again.

 

 

 

My son was talking to me last night about some things related to school and career (wished he could just tour with his band for 6 months after school – but of course, who can afford that?) and he was in a mood to talk. He told me that he thought I was too nice to his dad when he came back around and he understood why, but thought it wasn’t good for me. Smart son. He told me that he thought my compassion for others was a quality that he always admired in me and that he felt I should remain compassionate towards others, but not feel sorry for his dad or expect him to be any different than he is and that he will always be selfish and self-serving. Yeah....lesson learned! LOL I don’t want to go back with my XH, that ship has sailed a long time ago. I have thought about this for a while and I think what I wanted from him was a level of honesty that I give him and why bother? He isn’t going to do that and in a way, this is good that this whole mess of the last 3-4 months happened. I can co-parent but not be friends with him and should he come to me again with his professions of love (not all that unlikely as he and gf have never really gotten along and fight all of the time & have broken up several times), I will firmly tell him to move on and leave me be. I did try that, but his level of depression and tears made me feel for him. I don’t try to get my son to have a certain type of relationship with his dad. I did talk to my XH during the time we were talking about his relationship with son and how his lack of participation in son’s life hurt him. He cried, said he wanted a good relationship, he was sorry and then in the next breath tried to blame my son and me (saying I made my son not want to see him – so untrue). For example, he said that on father’s day, son was busy and so wouldn’t see him. So, I reminded him that he said he had to take care of gf who had surgery and so HE was the one who couldn’t come down. When asked, he said gf had hip replacement, but she and he were down the weekend before and the weekend after father’s day. He said “oh well…I don’t know, whatever” or something like that. Makes me tired to think about it.

 

 

His sister told me that I should act like there was no hope for reconciliation and see how he acts. I thought that was strange for a couple of reasons; one was I was not considering reconciling and I also thought that was a strange way to look at it. Turns out, she was right. It does let you find out what that person’s intentions are. Oh well.

Thanks for your responses.