Mixed signals from a married man

[Wowifoundausername]

While, I'm not defending my actions....please keep in mind, that he was also enjoying the fun loving banter and participating.

If there was any mild flirting, that was equally in jest as well.

 

You guys are all making it sound as if I'm some messed up chick with extra hormones.

 

Each person is different. We are not all the same. Nor do we all think the exact same.

 

I've heard of others being married and have long term full blown physical and emotional affairs, yet remain married. Some, claim the other person gives what that spouse can't and therefore it makes both marriages a happier more fulfilled one.

 

Is it right? No!

 

Right for them? Maybe? Who knows?

 

Is that what I want? No!

 

Should each and every one of us bail on our marriage and get a quick divorce because a need is not being met????

 

Come on! We are all human.

 

IMO..... Although morally wrong in all your eyes on here,,,,,I see nothing wrong with communicating and exchanging the odd fun flirty comment now and then. It's fun!

 

Emphasis on "fun".

 

After years of marriage, raising several kids, work, bill paying and endless kid (that are adult) drama.....yes, life becomes regular. Boring and hum drum.

That does not always mean the marriage is bad or that they need council.

 

In my case the marriage is great. But there is only so much work a couple can do about boring. We work on it. We do date nights we joke and have good laughs. But I am MORE talkative and fun loving then he....that's not ever going to change. But that does not mean I don't love him and wish to not honor my wedding vows!

 

Asking my friend to go private was simply being proactive. We work in high profile jobs that neither wants to mess up over some harmless banter.

Apparently, that bothers me a lot more them him.

When others see things, they MAY or may not take them out of context....if they did.... Well, then we become part of gossip hour in the coffee room at work and throughout, locally.

As for our spouses. To be honest, thinking about it now.... There wasn't anything that crazy said. BUT... Again.... Why cause undue stress?

 

"No dear.... When I asked how the handsome goo roo in the other department was..... I didn't wish to get into his pants"

" I don't know why he called me the gorgeous bean counter.... Who cares?"

"Oh! You feel I'm cheating on you do you?"

 

Sure. The spouses can read all the email. Why not?

Nothing like endless fights for no good reason. I just love arguing. Don't you all?

Lol

 

Hey! Maybe my husband would be cool with his aquaintance calling me gorgeous. But maybe my friends wife would have a complete melt down if I called her husband handsome!

 

Who knows? I don't really care to much to find out!

 

Besides. How do I know who my husband talks to? He is a business person. He talks to tons of people per day! How do I know that he doesn't have 50 private email accounts of his own??

 

I don't.

 

I trust him.

 

I don't ask or need to go through every email message in fear he may be cheating. IMO... If I felt such strong need to do that... I would get a divorse, because that means that the marriage is not solid. Marriage should be built upon trust, respect and honesty. Meaning, if I felt I needed to ask my husband if he was cheating, then, our marriage should be solid enough for him to answer me truthfully. I should never need to even think such a thing. Because I have faith in our marriage and feel like a solid union together with my husband.

 

If my husband asked me if I was emailing this guy. I would say yes.

If he asked to read all the emails. I would say yes.

 

My husband knows this guy very well actually.

 

But I don't feel I need to ask permission. Or be accountable for things I've never done wrong.

 

Yes. I do admit I was curious why he was giving mixed signals.

Who wouldn't be?

 

Yes. I suppose it does appear non innocent on my part.

But.... What about his part in all this?

Sure...I suggested the other email. But clearly I thought, for good reason, we should take the banter elsewhere.

I didn't ask him to do that so we could hook up!

 

Where in all this does everyone come up with.... I need counselling or that I'm wanting an affair???

 

Sure! Could happen to any one of us! If that is what we ChOOSE to let happen or make happen.

 

Life is about choices. Right?

 

I'm choosing to remain married because I love my husband and love our life together.

 

I'm not talking to another man to fill some sort of huge problem in the marriage.

 

It's fun. That's it. No agenda.

Don't want other eyes taking things and twisting them to creat gong shows.

Period.

 

Btw... Lets see a show of hands here. Who all likes other people going through or reading their mail? Who would find nothing wrong with third parties reading your email?

 

Did you all know its actually a crime punishable by jail time for opening ones mail in some counties? Why should that not apply to email? What's the difference?

 

I don't like people reading mine without my knowledge.

Would you?

 

Who here wants to be in a marriage with a real ball and chain attached that controls every aspect of your life including when you blink?

 

Seems to me that there is something very wrong with that picture.

 

Sure. My friend seems like the good saint to you all cause he stood by his lines drawn in the sand. Or maybe that's the appearance he wishes to portray?

Nothing like playing daft to get out of admission.

 

There are many angles to look at this folks!

Keep your minds open to possibilities.

Not all of us are cheating hoes!

 

I am getting over feeling like an idiot. Because he too must be feeling similar. It takes two to tango.

 

How do we get past this? Not sure.

Possibly I've over reacted and am worried for nothing?

 

I do agree that continuing to hash this out is pointless.

He seems unconcerned.

I am still bothered by it... But will get over it.

 

We have been co workers for over ten years.

I'm thinking that soon we will both have another good hard laugh over this.

Or... At least I sure hoe so.

[kamani]

OK, everybody else here has identified him as the honest, faithful, well behaved guy aware of his boundaries, which is highly commendable.

 

I'd say he is a flirty guy and who gave you wrong impressions. Both of you stroked each other's ego, through email and you were more involved than him. It seems he was not emotionally involved and it was something like a game to him. Anyway emails with sexual touch even through office account cannot be approved. I feel you were 'used' to certain extent. A decent guy won't do this.

 

Does this sound enough for you to move on?

 

Your posts suggest you should work more on your marriage and try to get connected much more with your husband.

 

Forget about being friends with this man, what he thought about you etc. Trying to explain would make you feel down more. Just say 'good morning, Hi' etc and keep things professional.

[TaraMaiden]

What you need to do is to understand that men's boundaries and attitudes are different to that of women's.

 

Women like to play coquettes, and be coy and flirtatious.

it adds a bit of fun to the day and spices up what could otherwise be a "boring and hum-drum" existence.

It's flattering and it's harmless.

 

We think.

 

men see behaviour of that kind as a prelude to more overt sexual behaviour.

They see it as a signal that we are open to more than just flattering banter. If they're in a position to do so, they will up the ante - and then we get huffy and declare "Jeesh, he just wanted to get into my underwear - I just wanted to be a friend! Why do men always want the same thing?? Sex?? Huh! He's just like all the rest of 'em!"

 

Platonic relationships exist very successfully.

In a woman's mind. Period.

 

Platonic relationships exist very successfully.

In a man's mind - but almost always with the undercurrent or sexual frisson running very, very close by.

 

Women are cerebral.

Men are carnal.

 

There's a thread running on what women like about being made to feel feminine by their guys.

Almost all posts deal with what these men DO for their women - and the sexual aspect is part of it, but doesn't seem to be the priority. In fact, some posts never mention sex at all.

 

Whereas if men were to post, I think it's possible sex would be mentioned quite frequently.

 

And that's not a criticism.

That's just a difference. That's just how things are.

 

I think you scared the heebie-jeebies out of him.

Because I think he recognised there is an attraction there, and he backed off from your signals at a 100 miles an hour.

Because whatever your intentions, he saw them as a prelude to an affair.

Because that's how he thought of it.

[Gpc2013]

The bottom line is that no matter how much you try to justify your actions and motives, this guy does not wish to engage in any "private" communication with you, and he never indicated that he did.

 

You contradict yourself because you claim the emails were simply in good fun and "harmless" yet you felt the need to create a private account to continue? If they were harmless emails, why would they raise suspicions at work or with spouses?

 

So it's one of two things. Either they weren't "harmless" and you were engaging in borderline inappropriate exchanges with another woman's husband. Or they WERE harmless and you read more into them than was intended.

 

Either way, he's plainly shown you where the boundary is, and he's unlikely to make the mistake of getting too close to it again. He is not entirely innocent in this, and your suggestion of a private account was his wake-up call.

[imtooconfused]

men see behaviour of that kind as a prelude to more overt sexual behaviour.

They see it as a signal that we are open to more than just flattering banter. If they're in a position to do so, they will up the ante - and then we get huffy and declare "Jeesh, he just wanted to get into my underwear - I just wanted to be a friend! Why do men always want the same thing?? Sex?? Huh! He's just like all the rest of 'em!"

 

This is because men have learned through a multitude of previous experiences that sexual banter is the signal that a woman may be open to further advances. Because a man does want sex (sorry it's just a fact of life just like a woman wants a fat credit card), like Pavlov's dog, he will instinctively "up the ante." I'm not defending anything here, just stating a fact of hormones.

 

So TaraMaiden what does it mean when I deflect sexual banter and the woman gets a huffy and disengages, as happened last night? Did she just want to get in my underwear?

[imtooconfused]

I'm sorry Wowifoundausername that you feel the need to be so defensive. This site is one of the most monogamy oriented sites I have come across. I believe that this is because the majority of users, men and women, have been the victim of a wayward partner, so the sensitivity is extremely high here. But even I, who doesn't feel an emotional connection with a third party crosses a marital boundary until it becomes physical, I recognize that your connection with your work friend meant something more to you than a simple friendship. The hurt and feeling of loss at his backing off is clear evidence of this. Even if you don't want to admit that publicly, you should recognize this in your own heart.

[Wowifoundausername]

The positive is that he did send me a work related email at nine sharp on Monday.... In response to my Fridays email which had some questions about work stuff. Ending with more of my feelings about this issue. His reply was a detailed email of work issues and at bottom a " sorry. I don't feel comfortable going private".

I sent him a joke email, non flirty ... Just funny, on Monday in reply. Have not heard back from him.

Do I send a response to Mondays work issues on email or just go no contact?

 

I feel at the fact he emailed me Monday morning sharp speaks volumes.

I appreciated that he did.

 

Maybe I should just not talk to him for as long as possible and see what he does.

 

At this point, I don't have any further desire to keep the friendship flames burning. I'm not hurt. But a bit disappointed because, two were involved here and it seems as if he is passing bucket to get out of water.

[SoleMate]

Flirtation can definitely be an innocent expression of someone's personality, and in that case the flirtatious person is that way with a wide range of people. I've known men who'd shamelessly flatter ladies 30 years older than themselves. You could tell by the way the women responded that it made their day. Everyone know it was light hearted fun with no subtext because it was:

 

* done in public, and no one including onlookers became uncomfortable

* aimed at numerous people of various ages and conditions

* devoid of need for future secret communications

* taken as pure meaningless banter by both sides (hence, no need to post to an online forum seeking clarification)

 

Also, whenever I send emails to anyone, work or personal, sensitive topic or grocery list bland, I am always aware that the person could share the email with others. I assume any work email could be shared with my boss, and any email sent to a partnered person could be shared with the partner. To me, that is a fact of life, not anything to become incensed about.

[Gpc2013]

The positive is that he did send me a work related email at nine sharp on Monday.... In response to my Fridays email which had some questions about work stuff. Ending with more of my feelings about this issue. His reply was a detailed email of work issues and at bottom a " sorry. I don't feel comfortable going private".

I sent him a joke email, non flirty ... Just funny, on Monday in reply. Have not heard back from him.

Do I send a response to Mondays work issues on email or just go no contact?

 

I feel at the fact he emailed me Monday morning sharp speaks volumes.

I appreciated that he did.

 

Maybe I should just not talk to him for as long as possible and see what he does.

 

At this point, I don't have any further desire to keep the friendship flames burning. I'm not hurt. But a bit disappointed because, two were involved here and it seems as if he is passing bucket to get out of water.

 

You're over-thinking this. Stop. It's done. Treat him the way you would any other colleague. You can be polite and friendly, but beyond that? Let it rest. There is no need to try to manipulate him into giving you attention. You can't very well go "no contact" with a co-worker. Nor should you try different approaches to "see what he does." You'll do nothing but cause unnecessary tension and awkwardness. Go about your business and let him go about his. Communicate with him professionally as is needed, and get over it.

[CarrieT]

Over the weekend, I took the time to reflect on this and what is going on with myself. I came to the conclusion that, I believe it's a mentor that I'm needing and he was someone whom I'd like to be that person.

He is older. Raised two very successful kids. Has a great wife and ideal marriage.

 

You didn't answer my first question; i.e., could you show your husband your emails?

 

Here is a second question regarding your desire for a mentor: Do you or did you ever envision being able to invite this "mentor" over for a social gathering with your husband?

 

If the answer to either of the questions above is "no," than your intentions are less than honorable.

 

If you can't be open and honest with your husband about your involvement with this person, than it is wrong.

[TaraMaiden]

.....So TaraMaiden what does it mean when I deflect sexual banter and the woman gets a huffy and disengages, as happened last night? Did she just want to get in my underwear?

Highly possible.

Many women cannot believe that when they "offer it on a plate", a guy could possibly turn her down.

That's an affront to her femininity. She was clearly piqued that you did not respond as you would have liked, to her advances, however flirtatious they might have been...

 

It's almost exactly the scenario being described here, by the OP.

 

Do you not see that?

 

Incidentally, in response to this -

 

This site is one of the most monogamy oriented sites I have come across. I believe that this is because the majority of users, men and women, have been the victim of a wayward partner, so the sensitivity is extremely high here.

 

- I for one, do not consider monogamy to be a normal human trait.

But that's for another thread....

[imtooconfused]

Highly possible.

Many women cannot believe that when they "offer it on a plate", a guy could possibly turn her down.

That's an affront to her femininity. She was clearly piqued that you did not respond as you would have liked, to her advances, however flirtatious they might have been...

 

So you admit there is a double standard. Men should back down yet stay friendly, while women can take offense.

 

It's almost exactly the scenario being described here, by the OP.

 

Do you not see that?

 

Honestly I did not see that. There is a major difference, though. I enjoyed her company and I would have liked to continue non-sexual banter, but she disengaged. I was not offended by her very forward advances like the case of the OP, I merely wished to turn down the heat a bit.

 

I for one, do not consider monogamy to be a normal human trait.

But that's for another thread....

 

I am probably more in agreement with you than you think. I certainly believe that a "mate for life" in human society does more harm than good (outside of perhaps while raising children).

Edited June 6, 2013 by imtooconfused

[TaraMaiden]

So you admit there is a double standard. Men should back down yet stay friendly, while women can take offense.

No, there's no double standard. Signals can be mis-read, and misinterpreted by both genders. Misunderstandings arise, frankly, because to be honest, I think we're losing the ability to communicate effectively.

Blame emancipation and technology.

 

Men don't know where they stand with women any more because roles have become blurred, and technology is slowly strangling the art of effective communication.

When you consider that the highest proportion of communication is body language, you can see why texts and emails are such a FAIL....

 

While you can't turn the clock back, and 'undo' progress, something needs to happen to improve what is fast becoming a tragic common occurrence.

 

Honestly I did not see that. There is a major difference, though. I enjoyed her company and I would have liked to continue non-sexual banter,

married man colleague would probably have enjoyed continuing the friendly non-sexual banter...

 

but she disengaged. I was not offended by her very forward advances like the case of the OP, I merely wished to turn down the heat a bit.

he wanted her to turn down the heat a bit. She didn't see it,and became offended by what she perceived to be his rejection.

The woman you were speaking to also saw your retreat as rejection.

 

It's much the same.

Misinterpretation.

 

You were backing off. She saw rejection.

Married man was backing off. OP saw rejection.

 

I am probably more in agreement with you than you think. I certainly believe that a "mate for life" in human society does more harm than good (outside of perhaps while raising children).

Yeah, that's a debatable point, about the kids.... but again, for another thread.

 

[Wowifoundausername]

Imtooconfused, it looks like I will have to check out your posts.

[Wowifoundausername]

There has been communication between him and myself.

I had to send him some work info. He responded to it.

I asked him how his weekend was and vise versa.

Looks like there isn't going to be too many bad feelings.

 

Just thought I'd give an update.

 

This thread is good! Lets keep it going! Lol

[kamani]

It seems you have difficulties in distinguishing between 'platonic' and 'romantic' friendship.

 

Do you at least admit that you are developing feelings for this MM?

 

Definitely he 'has to' reply your work related email. What is so special there? In the meantime, I feel he is enjoying your attention and nothing more.

 

If you go down this path, at this speed, you'll find only 3 destinations.

 

1. Getting rejected of offer from you for more intimacy.

2. Persuading him to have an EA and then probably a PA.

3. Getting played by him to feed his ego, and finally feel like trash.

 

Which of these do you like? Spare yourself a lot of pain.

[Wowifoundausername]

No. No feelings for him. But do enjoy his friendship. That's it.

 

We have to correspond for work frequently. I'm not taking it as his reply being romantic.

 

I'm relieved we are still speaking.

[vickvagner]

No lecture here -

 

Let's talk turkey.

 

1) You clearly have feelings for him that go beyond friendship. The heart wants what it wants. You can't help that.

 

2) You want to explore where it could go - to find out if its real.

 

3) When you know its real, you have a decision to make - I'm not going to weigh in on that - I'll just pretend you're both single and go to the next step.

 

4) He told you, very politely, that his two emails are shared by two people you specifically don't want them shared with - a) someone else in the office who could blab and b) his wife, who could misconstrue things.

 

This is some professional-business-related advice-- Most tech savvy men have access to an alternate email - hell, I have one to play Yahoo games and use it for nothing else. It takes literally 2 min. to set up said email. He told you he is not taking this to the next level by specifying he won't e-mail you otherwise. This isn't 1993. Its easy. He won't for whatever reason.

 

STOP. Not for some fake moral reasons (which a lot of people on here trot out any time someone looks at another person who is married), but for your career - if you continue to pursue him, at some point there will be gossip, and it always hurts the woman more than the man. So back off from your relationship... find some excuses to do some work-related communication to demonstrate no hard feelings, that you have a good working relationship-- and leave it at that.

 

As for you...

 

Its clear you feel something is missing. Excitement? Romance? Just that FEELING of being in a new romance. Get some counseling - not to save you from the perils of infidelity, but to identify what it is you're seeking. I suspect you may be picking up on some signals from your husband that things aren't OK.

[Wowifoundausername]

It appears to be ok. We have shared work email the last while. I think if there was hard feelings there would be no communication.

[jnel921]

Maybe he is just a nice guy? Why do you feel the need to take the conversation offline and into another email account unless your intention is what needs to be questioned.

 

Not sure what you are looking for but you should leave it alone. You obviously love the attention. But you are at work. do what you get paid to do. Your job!

[imtooconfused]

But you are at work. do what you get paid to do. Your job!

 

Completely disregarding the fact that both of them are married...

 

In the world of business, you're saying that before this poster, there has never been a workplace romance? Two people who are attracted to one another have to put their feelings completely aside, just because they work together? In my judgment (again disregarding the potential infidelity, and assuming the feelings were mutual) perhaps, taking the flirty talk off the company email and off company time was exactly the appropriate thing to do with respect to the job.

[Wowifoundausername]

The work email has been back and forth when needed.

To keep things light and from being uncomfortable, I've joked around a bit here and there.

But he isn't responding and keeping the joke going like before.

I do miss that. I'm not going to lie.

[TaraMaiden]

I'd shift your focus on a single guy in the office and back off this one.

you're obviously making him extremely uncomfortable and defensive.

 

An ex-colleague of mine rang me yesterday evening for a catch-up...

 

A young lady left the company last Friday, and basically the same thing you're going through, happened with her.

She became friendly with another guy in the company and completely misinterpreted the situation between them, and in the end, they couldn't be in the same room together without the tension being palpable.

He ended up hating her, because no matter what he did to transmit the message that he was married, disinterested and off-limits, she just kept up her end and kept pushing the point.

The relief when she left rippled through the entire company.

Everybody went for after-work celebratory drinks.

Without her, naturally.

 

Quit this persistence.

Be as cold and distant as he is, and find another (single, unattached, available) guy to cultivate a friendship with.

[imtooconfused]

The work email has been back and forth when needed.

To keep things light and from being uncomfortable, I've joked around a bit here and there.

But he isn't responding and keeping the joke going like before.

I do miss that. I'm not going to lie.

 

I really feel for how my you wish that you can reconnect with your friend, but as you already know, he is trying very hard to burn that bridge. Take time to fret over misinterpreting signals and mourn the loss of your friendship. After that time, you will need to move on.

 

TaraMaiden's story is very instructive and I can confirm that workplace relationship "issues" can ripple throughout the company and become obvious to everyone around you. You certainly do not want to become "that girl" (the one from her story) given that you are married, because it will leak out of the workplace and get back to your husband.

[imtooconfused]

An incident which happened during the last week or so might be very helpful to this conversation so I felt I would share...

 

For some background, I will share that I joined the working world during the late 80's and early 90's and I saw the remnants of some real sexual discrimination going on in the workplace. I had to sit through many sensitivity training sessions, so I am quite sensitive to even the mere perception of sexual harassment.

 

So coming back to this week, I was starting a new part-time job and went through the new employee orientation with several other people. One other new coworker (who is female) and I hit it off immediately. The friendly banter started almost instantaneously and although I wouldn't characterize it as flirting, within an hour it was like we had known each other for years. Throughout the rest of the morning we were kind of inseparable, in a friendly way.

 

Well the main point of the orientation was to go over the company policies and procedures (of which there were many). Obviously at one point, there was the sexual harassment policy and the discussion with the HR person along the lines of:

 

"It's not about how the comment was intended, but how it was the comment was received. It could even be perceived as harassment by a third party outside of the two people having the conversation."

 

At this point, I had flashbacks to those sensitivity sessions, and was overly sensitive/hyper-sensitive to how I acted with and around her, especially in sight of the HR person and our manager. The moral of the story is that I felt the need (and continue to do so) to act VERY differently in the workplace with someone with whom I might have a spark versus any other coworker of the opposite sex. This bodes very poorly for continuing even more than a casual friendship.