Is waiting until the relationship is solid before having sex a thing of the past?

[tbf]

However, I am starting to think I could lose out on this great guy I am seeing simply because I want to wait.

Is he such a great guy if he can't wait? Are men entitled to sex from women? Reconsider your stance. Never fear loss.

 

Also, if it's not unrealistic to keep this viewpoint, how do I turn down sex during the heat of the moment without it being completely awkward? Do I just say it before we start messing around?

Consider this a learning experience. If you're the type of woman who doesn't engage in sex prior to an exclusive relationship, it's best to state this as soon as possible, even on the first date. You can't be passive about it, waiting for the guy to bring the topic of conversation around to insert this important value. This is about expectation management and if the guy continues to press for sex before commitment, he either isn't a good listener or doesn't respect you/your boundaries of which either isn't a guy worth long-term commitment.

[therhythm]

And btw, "high-quality" is different from the "nice guy," who typically gets friend-zoned. And yes, it's true women like *******s, which it sounds like you're proud to be, therhythm.

 

High-quality men get sex all the time. The way to set yourself apart is to require more than crumbs.

 

Again, can you please tell me who are those "High quality" men... it looks like I never met one of them...

 

Men are all of high quality, it depends of whom is measuring!

 

But a man with options will only wait long for sex without exclusivity and you sound intelligent enough to know that by now!

[daisybuchanan55]

But, therhythm, my point is, if you suspect there is a "rotation" setup, the only way to keep yourself OUT of the rotation is to not have sex with him. Otherwise you're leaving it up to chance.

 

In my experience if you keep yourself out of the sexual rotation he will eventually stop having sex with other women because he's spending so much time with you and you'll know it without having to ask. If you're wondering where he is and who he's with, he's probably out boning someone else!

[Phantom888]

Ohh I guess your casual sex is very different than mine... Actually I can't imagine sex being unfulfilling in any way..

 

Can you please enlighten me about those quality men? Who are them? I usually see them frienzoned while their quality women try to sleep with me

 

Quality men are really not quantifiable. I don't know... I guess the ladies decide this one. I don't think ladies would ever friendzone a quality man, since there is a lot more demand than supply.

 

As for my casual sex experiences, well what can I say, I was lured into sleeping with amateur and professional models who looked good but were boring as a tree stump. It was unfulfilling, unemotional and uninteresting.

[therhythm]

But, therhythm, my point is, if you suspect there is a "rotation" setup, the only way to keep yourself OUT of the rotation is to not have sex with him. Otherwise you're leaving it up to chance.

 

In my experience if you keep yourself out of the sexual rotation he will eventually stop having sex with other women because he's spending so much time with you and you'll know it without having to ask. If you're wondering where he is and who he's with, he's probably out boning someone else!

 

That is a dangerous game, what can also happen is that you get invested in him because the time you spend together and he leaves you for someone else who has been more open minded than you. You are a intelligent human being and you need to learn to use your capacity and judgment when it comes to men. You should learn to recognize honest interest from last minute booty call...

Your theory is all men are bad till they proof the contrary and I don't think is a healthy philosophy of life!

[therhythm]

Quality men are really not quantifiable. I don't know... I guess the ladies decide this one. I don't think ladies would ever friendzone a quality man, since there is a lot more demand than supply.

 

As for my casual sex experiences, well what can I say, I was lured into sleeping with amateur and professional models who looked good but were boring as a tree stump. It was unfulfilling, unemotional and uninteresting.

 

Oh yeah... models are so boring in bed..:lmao:

I begin to understand your user name

Edited May 31, 2013 by therhythm

[daisybuchanan55]

Let me ask you this: let's talk about high-quality women. I consider myself "high-quality." Not being conceited, just laying out the facts. In shape, attractive, good dresser, good job, and I'm a public figure who many people have seen on TV.

 

Because of this I am approached by men for dates ALL THE TIME. I never have to hit on anyone or put forth effort. Many of my friends are in the same boat but we still have the same problem:

 

Once in awhile I come across a man who I want to sleep with. What is the course of action, in your opinion, to get the exclusive relationship I desire?

 

Logic says it should be as easy as sitting back and enjoying the ride but it's not. What seems to happen over and over is finding ourselves in these "faux-lationships" where the guy thinks he can plan last-minute dates, meet up at bars, hang out with groups of friends etc.

 

Many people have told me the problem is the brand of man I like. Cocky, powerful, good-looking, desired.

 

But I refuse to believe the guy is the problem! I think that if I just play my cards right I can "reform" these players.

 

Advice?

[tbf]

Advice?

Drop the ego and start thinking with your rational mind.

[therhythm]

Let me ask you this: let's talk about high-quality women. I consider myself "high-quality." Not being conceited, just laying out the facts. In shape, attractive, good dresser, good job, and I'm a public figure who many people have seen on TV.

 

Because of this I am approached by men for dates ALL THE TIME. I never have to hit on anyone or put forth effort. Many of my friends are in the same boat but we still have the same problem:

 

Once in awhile I come across a man who I want to sleep with. What is the course of action, in your opinion, to get the exclusive relationship I desire?

 

Logic says it should be as easy as sitting back and enjoying the ride but it's not. What seems to happen over and over is finding ourselves in these "faux-lationships" where the guy thinks he can plan last-minute dates, meet up at bars, hang out with groups of friends etc.

 

Many people have told me the problem is the brand of man I like. Cocky, powerful, good-looking, desired.

 

But I refuse to believe the guy is the problem! I think that if I just play my cards right I can "reform" these players.

 

Advice?

 

There is no magic trick to catch a man with options, specially if he is not ready to commit yet. The only way you can do that is really by blowing his world or even playing his game... what if you actually sex him up and then don't call him back? Men with options have a big ego and that could be their weakness. Anyhow time and good sex is the only way to go with them, if you don't put out they will lose interest in a minute!

[daisybuchanan55]

That is a dangerous game, what can also happen is that you get invested in him because the time you spend together and he leaves you for someone else who has been more open minded than you. You are a intelligent human being and you need to learn to use your capacity and judgment when it comes to men. You should learn to recognize honest interest from last minute booty call...

Your theory is all men are bad till they proof the contrary and I don't think is a healthy philosophy of life!

 

I DID sleep with him. And it didn't change things at all. It just made me more pissed off and upset that I slept with someone who wasn't making me a priority in their life. I honestly felt like a piece of garbage after the entire encounter.

 

And yes, I agree I need to work on thinking all men are bad. I guess I'm just attracted to a lot of jerks!

[daisybuchanan55]

Drop the ego and start thinking with your rational mind.

 

Haha. Not bad advice...

[tbf]

Men with options have a big ego

Not really. These are the snake oil salesmen that women need to avoid since the arrogance masks insecurity.

[therhythm]

Not really. These are the snake oil salesmen that women need to avoid since the arrogance masks insecurity.

 

The ones she is speaking about ( what she call players) are ALL ego.

[tbf]

Haha. Not bad advice...

 

What you're drawn to appears to be challenge. But when you play the game of challenge, you're already at a disadvantage, attempting to convince someone you're lovable.

[BluEyeL]

That is a dangerous game, what can also happen is that you get invested in him because the time you spend together and he leaves you for someone else who has been more open minded than you. You are a intelligent human being and you need to learn to use your capacity and judgment when it comes to men. You should learn to recognize honest interest from last minute booty call...

Your theory is all men are bad till they proof the contrary and I don't think is a healthy philosophy of life!

 

I don't think that she said that all men are bad. I agree with all the points she made.

 

You often say that "a woman doesn't owe any man sex, but a man, in turn, doesn't owe any woman exclusivity". Well, that is true, typically, what we women say is that we'd like sex to happen at the point when exclusivity is established. So perfect timing for your favorite saying I cited above.

 

 

Also, you mention often how you won't wait for sex. However, I don't know how old you are, but you don't seem to have had very long relationships, apart from the 1.5 yrs one that just ended. Therefore, although I like you and your style, I think for me, as a woman who wants a loving long term relationship, would be a bad investment to enter any arrangement with someone with your type of thinking, either earlier or later, since you say you won't wait for sex, but when you get it, your relationships don't last long anyway. I'm not referring to you personally in fact, don't take it the wrong way. Just that for the sake of argument, I'm using your arguments as representative for a guy with this type of thinking, who won't wait because of his own reasons, but who, in turn, doesn't have a history of long term relationships. Guys who think like phantom, for example though, with a different mindset, would be a better option (although not in his sexscapade period lol). I think men like that exist and women who want a LTR need to find them. Not all women want LTR so I guess still enough left for everyone else.

[daisybuchanan55]

The ones she is speaking about ( what she call players) are ALL ego.

 

Yes. They are all ego. Actors and professional athletes tend to think they walk on water...

 

This is, unfortunately, a quality most women cannot resist.

[tbf]

The ones she is speaking about ( what she call players) are ALL ego.

If they're players, yes. But there are plenty of men who fit the description who aren't all ego. She's playing a losing game.

[daisybuchanan55]

The problem is I see these same men, these "all ego players," go from me to women I would consider less desirable!! As in, girls with no job, interests, etc. They actually marry them!

 

Maybe they're cheating the entire time but...

 

WHAT GIVES???

[BluEyeL]

I DID sleep with him. And it didn't change things at all. It just made me more pissed off and upset that I slept with someone who wasn't making me a priority in their life. I honestly felt like a piece of garbage after the entire encounter.

 

And yes, I agree I need to work on thinking all men are bad. I guess I'm just attracted to a lot of jerks!

 

Wow, no, I really don't think you can reform players. If they are playing the field and have that mindset, you cannot make them change their mind. I'd say reform your way of thinking and pick a different brand of men.

[therhythm]

I don't think that she said that all men are bad. I agree with all the points she made.

 

You often say that "a woman doesn't owe any man sex, but a man, in turn, doesn't owe any woman exclusivity". Well, that is true, typically, what we women say is that we'd like sex to happen at the point when exclusivity is established. So perfect timing for your favorite saying I cited above.

 

 

Also, you mention often how you won't wait for sex. However, I don't know how old you are, but you don't seem to have had very long relationships, apart from the 1.5 yrs one that just ended. Therefore, although I like you and your style, I think for me, as a woman who wants a loving long term relationship, would be a bad investment to enter any arrangement with someone with your type of thinking, either earlier or later, since you say you won't wait for sex, but when you get it, your relationships don't last long anyway. I'm not referring to you personally in fact, don't take it the wrong way. Just that for the sake of argument, I'm using your arguments as representative for a guy with this type of thinking, who won't wait because of his own reasons, but who, in turn, doesn't have a history of long term relationships. Guys who think like phantom, for example though, with a different mindset, would be a better option (although not in his sexscapade period lol). I think men like that exist and women who want a LTR need to find them. Not all women want LTR so I guess still enough left for everyone else.

 

You keep bringing up my life story to the thread but the truth is that you don't know anything about it besides what I have myself written in one thread. If you want to know more there are plenty of threads I have started that may enlighten you about why I have had only 1 long term relationship, but I am 30 years old and I have been free to commit only the last 3 years of my life so I guess if you look at it I have been in a committed relationship the half of the time I was available for it!

 

I am fine if you prefer people like phantom for a relationship, there are many woman who would not consider me for that and I am completely fine with that fact... I do have my own options and if I ever have had something in excess has been female attention.

[therhythm]

If they're players, yes. But there are plenty of men who fit the description who aren't all ego. She's playing a losing game.

 

actually yes, she is playing a losing game, and therefore I think she is also giving the wrong advise, she is used to deal with losers.

[BluEyeL]

The problem is I see these same men, these "all ego players," go from me to women I would consider less desirable!! As in, girls with no job, interests, etc. They actually marry them!

 

Maybe they're cheating the entire time but...

 

WHAT GIVES???

 

You were making sense earlier, now you don't. Of course they'll marry someone with no job and interests. That's because they like to have them under their control. If they marry you, you'll fuss and do whatever the heck you want, not what they want. Duuh.... I have a cousin who openly told my mom that he doesn't let his girlfriend get a job because, and I cite "she'd not be dependent on me anymore". So all you need to do is get away from this brand of men.

[tbf]

Yes. They are all ego. Actors and professional athletes tend to think they walk on water...

 

This is, unfortunately, a quality most women cannot resist.

I don't disagree that the majority are egomaniacs. But not all of them are. My last short-term relationship before getting married, was with an actor. He surprised me since he's emotionally sane and is a decent man. At present, he's still a friend and a friend of the family.

 

Forget who's popular and who's not. Select by emotional sanity where narcissism dominates celebrities.

[BluEyeL]

You keep bringing up my life story to the thread but the truth is that you don't know anything about it besides what I have myself written in one thread. If you want to know more there are plenty of threads I have started that may enlighten you about why I have had only 1 long term relationship, but I am 30 years old and I have been free to commit only the last 3 years of my life so I guess if you look at it I have been in a committed relationship the half of the time I was available for it!

 

I am fine if you prefer people like phantom for a relationship, there are many woman who would not consider me for that and I am completely fine with that fact... I do have my own options and if I ever have had something in excess has been female attention.

Well, I guess it wasn't too nice of me to put you on the spot based on the info you gave, I aplogize for that.

 

Just in general, I couldn't resist not to point out the fact that sleeping with someone who doesn't want to wait doesn't mean at all that they'll give you a LTR. It is fine if you were not there in the commitment zone until very recently, it's completely fine. For the argument you are making it though, were you use yourself as an example, it can be pointed out that sleeping early (or late) with someone who is not ready for commitment will not make him ready for commitment. Is not that I personally prefer phantom over you, it was just a general way of pointing out that sleeping early with a man who is not interested in commitment will not give a woman commitment, the key is to find a man who is ready for commitment and if he really likes you then he'll wait until exclusivity. And again we don't owe sex, you don't owe exclusivity. What we generally want is sex at the point of exclusivity and not before. So it really is simple, not a real conflict here.

[therhythm]

Well, I guess it wasn't too nice of me to put you on the spot based on the info you gave, I aplogize for that.

 

Just in general, I couldn't resist not to point out the fact that sleeping with someone who doesn't want to wait doesn't mean at all that they'll give you a LTR. It is fine if you were not there in the commitment zone until very recently, it's completely fine. For the argument you are making it though, were you use yourself as an example, it can be pointed out that sleeping early (or late) with someone who is not ready for commitment will not make him ready for commitment. Is not that I personally prefer phantom over you, it was just a general way of pointing out that sleeping early with a man who is not interested in commitment will not give a woman commitment, the key is to find a man who is ready for commitment and if he really likes you then he'll wait until exclusivity. And again we don't owe sex, you don't owe exclusivity. What we generally want is sex at the point of exclusivity and not before. So it really is simple, not a real conflict here.

 

It is still a conflict (at least in my case) as I will never give commitment or exclusivity until I have had sex with that woman, sexual compatibility is of really importance for me as I am a very sexual person and I would not like to enter in a relationship to find out that we are not compatible and have to take all the difficult decisions from there when I am already too invested.