RedRobin Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Tell that to all the frienzoned guys in the world who were dating a woman for months to end up seeing how their chances blow up after months of investment... that has never happened to me and it won't happen! I have no issue with waiting for a woman if she needs time as long as it is clearly understood that we are not exclusive yet and I can get sex if I want it from other sources... You forget... the woman has also lost months of investment. Why would a woman trust that you want a serious relationship with her if you had to get sex from other sources during that period?? Especially if she is not getting sex from other sources while she is getting to know you? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Adele0908 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Personally, I have never waited for a solid commitment to have sex. Not once. I usually just go with the flow. I'm no virgin, I enjoy sex, and I hate pretending like I'm innocent. I'm 29, so at this age I ain't foolin nobody, lol. I always had a man in my life who wanted to commit to me without me having to beg and plead and I never had to use sex as a bargaining chip. But to each his (or her) own. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BluEyeL Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Tell that to all the frienzoned guys in the world who were dating a woman for months to end up seeing how their chances blow up after months of investment... that has never happened to me and it won't happen! I have no issue with waiting for a woman if she needs time as long as it is clearly understood that we are not exclusive yet and I can get sex if I want it from other sources... The problem I see here is that we start approaching each other with suspicion, like the opposite sex is the enemy. She might want to friendzone us!! He might want to f*** us and never call. I guess if people were more honest and open, we wouldn't have so much trouble. If you are looking for casual, everyone should know and agree, plenty of women are looking for casual. Heck, even I am not so sure I want to move a man in my life anytime soon, so I might agree with casual, as prudish as I've been! So plenty of women would be ok with casual so let them know, don't lie. If she is looking for LTR, she should make it known so he can either stay and wait, or walk away without investment (not lie that he wants that too, there are plenty of others who want casual). When people start lying to each other and playing tricks with each other's feelings, that's when we get trouble. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BluEyeL Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 : I'm am so thankful I have boys. I do NOT want to deal with having a young whore as a daughter. No thank you! I resent you for using this term. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
shexy Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I really shouldn't offer advice on this topic, because I suck at relationships. BUT, when I was younger I always ended up having sex too soon, and got nothing but a bad reputation and hurt a LOT. Fast forward 15 years, after a divorce, and not a lot of dating, I really don't feel like waiting months and months for sex will make a big difference of whether or not the relationship will work out. I think it depends on a lot of other factors - like how mature is the guy? Are you a rebound or is he? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 This is the perfect advise if you want to end with a guy who will wait because doesn't have any other option... if a guy has options and you make him wait too long... well you imagine the rest of it You can only speak for yourself in this case, really. There are other men who do fall in love and request for exclusivity, BEFORE having sex. Certainly not the majority, but they do exist, and many of them are quite the catch. Not all men jump to the 'option' that puts out for them the soonest. As for the 'degrading' S&R thread you mentioned in a later post - IMO that is the precise example of what happens when two people jump into sex before even having discussed personal boundaries, preferences, and desires. Link to post Share on other sites
therhythm Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 (edited) Not even sure how to reply as I've never had to "wait" for sex. The first time I had sex was within a week or two after getting my first kiss and I actually had to fight the girl off of me when she tried to rape me because I was afraid of getting her pregnant. I dunno...I guess I'm a huge advocate of chemistry and passion...if it's not there, I don't really feel a need to go any further. Most of the girls I've been with...we had sex either on the first date or there was some very strong sexual contact within the first 3 dates and the only reason why we didn't have sex right away was because there no opportune place to. If I've gone out on a handful of dates with a girl and there's no sex or no sign of anything leading to sex, it doesn't go any further. NOT because of the lack of sex...but because of the lack of chemistry...if that makes sense. I would never EVER pressure someone for sex. Hope that makes sense. When you've been with the same person as long as I have (nearly 14 years) you will understand how absolutely vital sexual chemistry is. My wife and I had sex within HOURS of hanging out for the first time (wasn't even a date). I mean she tore me apart...she needed me like I was oxygen and the same for me. Still to this day, the chemistry and passion has not subsided one bit. When it comes down to it...it's not about sex, or waiting, or how many dates....or any of that. It comes down to physical and sexual chemistry and that's not something you can build or create...it's either there right from the getgo, or it isn't, imo. ^^^^^This^^^^^^ I wish I could like it 1000 times. I have never had to wait long for sex either, if the woman I am dating is not as much into me as I am into her in the first dates there is not chemistry! Ladies a gentleman who is 14 years in a committed relationship has summed it up perfectly! I would never push for sex either honestly, I have no interest on someone who is not as interested or as sexual as I am. Edited June 1, 2013 by therhythm 1 Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 There are still plenty of men AND women who are not interested in casual sex, and actually want to have feelings for the person and an actual relationship before getting intimate. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
therhythm Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 You can only speak for yourself in this case, really. There are other men who do fall in love and request for exclusivity, BEFORE having sex. Certainly not the majority, but they do exist, and many of them are quite the catch. Not all men jump to the 'option' that puts out for them the soonest. As for the 'degrading' S&R thread you mentioned in a later post - IMO that is the precise example of what happens when two people jump into sex before even having discussed personal boundaries, preferences, and desires. Well I guess that is obvious. I speak for myself and about what I have seen around me and you speak for yourself and about what you have seen around you... It is very innocent to expect that someone with any kind of fetish will talk with you about it outside a sexual set up... Specially some of them like the one described in that post... Link to post Share on other sites
therhythm Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 You forget... the woman has also lost months of investment. Why would a woman trust that you want a serious relationship with her if you had to get sex from other sources during that period?? Especially if she is not getting sex from other sources while she is getting to know you? How did that work for the last guy you dated?, the one that had a fwb in his past? You knew he was not what you wanted but you still stringed him along for two months before dumping him... Here it all comes to compatibilities... I am wild and passionated and I need someone like that to click while you are more a introspective and analytic woman who only plays in safe ground with no risks... There is people who live like you and people who live like me... Nothing wrong with both of the ways Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 How cruel, why would you want to purposefully postpone them losing their virginity to at least their late twenties? No woman under 30 wants a decent young man with high moral values. A decent young woman with high moral values would want her counterpart. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
therhythm Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 A decent young woman with high moral values would want her counterpart. No...they don't Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 No...they don't Well, I know many young women personally who do want exactly that. A decent man with morals. There's plenty of douchebags out there. That's not what women with morals are interested in. They want someone who is relationship material, who actually wants a relationship, and is not just interested in sex. Link to post Share on other sites
therhythm Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Well, I know many young women personally who do want exactly that. A decent man with morals. There's plenty of douchebags out there. That's not what women with morals are interested in. They want someone who is relationship material, who actually wants a relationship, and is not just interested in sex. If you say so...my experience is very different Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 If you say so...my experience is very different That doesn't surprise me, given your profession. Link to post Share on other sites
therhythm Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 That doesn't surprise me, given your profession. Former profession, I am out for 3 years now;) And it has not changed ... Link to post Share on other sites
William Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Folks, let's get back to the topic and stow the pejorative labels of people with different perspectives on it. Thanks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MoreThanThat Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I'm in my 40's and have never had sex with anyone who I didn't feel confident actually loved me by the time we did. It's not a game for me but because I've had sex without love (at the end of a relationship) and it's really just not the same thing for me. The emotional connection has to be there before. I establish boundaries as soon as there is any intimacy by saying - unless I'm with someone where we BOTH feel this could be a long-term relationship, I don't have sex. I've usually explained why. I've never had someone pressure me or had someone walk before sex who I actually wanted more with. (My last situation excluded BUT we did not proceed beyond friendship.) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Well I guess that is obvious. I speak for myself and about what I have seen around me and you speak for yourself and about what you have seen around you... I am fine with you speaking for yourself. Fine with your choices, your personal life, your opinions of what you will and won't do. NOT so fine, with blanket statements like this: "This is the perfect advise if you want to end with a guy who will wait because doesn't have any other option... if a guy has options and you make him wait too long... well you imagine the rest of it " IMO men who choose to wait for sex get waaaay too much flak from people, including people of their own gender. Statements like the above are an example of such. Not to mention, false. It is very innocent to expect that someone with any kind of fetish will talk with you about it outside a sexual set up... Specially some of them like the one described in that post... Is it? It seems to be the recommendation by the majority of the BDSM community. Do you perceive those folks as 'very innocent'? Link to post Share on other sites
HoneyBadgerDontCare Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Well, I know many young women personally who do want exactly that. A decent man with morals. There's plenty of douchebags out there. That's not what women with morals are interested in. They want someone who is relationship material, who actually wants a relationship, and is not just interested in sex. These women are not the majority. It is very difficult for any man to find a woman that believes this, actually sticks to it, is interested in him, and clicks with him. I believe that it is equally hard to find a man like this. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
therhythm Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I am fine with you speaking for yourself. Fine with your choices, your personal life, your opinions of what you will and won't do. NOT so fine, with blanket statements like this: "This is the perfect advise if you want to end with a guy who will wait because doesn't have any other option... if a guy has options and you make him wait too long... well you imagine the rest of it " It is fine if you are not fine with my post We don't need to agree! I speak about my own experience but also about what I see around me and what is common sense. To expand my comment (that has offended you so much)... If a man begin to date you and at this moment he doesn't have any other open options (FWB, other dates, other women intrested on dating him) he is more likely to accept that he needs to wait for sex as much as you want, at the end of the day he has no other options. But it that man who is beginning to date you and he has other open options (FWB, other woman who are interested on him or that are actually dating him at the same time) if you make him wait for sex he will find it in the other options. There is no love or commitment at that time yet so why would he wait and don't have sex with other people? Do you really expect a man to be in love of you in the first dates? Sorry but that is not common. IMO men who choose to wait for sex get waaaay too much flak from people, including people of their own gender. Statements like the above are an example of such. Not to mention, false. I can really tell you that there are much more pressure to women from their own gender to wait for sex than more men to not wait... actually when it comes to men it is as I said before in a 95% of the cases question of options. Is it? It seems to be the recommendation by the majority of the BDSM community. Do you perceive those folks as 'very innocent'? ;) BDSM it is in many cases much more than a fetish, for many people it is a life style and that is a game changer, the same as swinging for example, this are indeed a no brainer, you need to talk about this before entering in a relationship. But there are many kind of fetish and I can't imagine a guy telling a girl that he likes to be peed on, or f.ucked with an strapon before they even had the intimacy of having sex... this won't happen in the majority of the cases. Link to post Share on other sites
MoreThanThat Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 BDSM it is in many cases much more than a fetish, for many people it is a life style and that is a game changer, the same as swinging for example, this are indeed a no brainer, you need to talk about this before entering in a relationship. But there are many kind of fetish and I can't imagine a guy telling a girl that he likes to be peed on, or f.ucked with an strapon before they even had the intimacy of having sex... this won't happen in the majority of the cases. The examples you gave of fetishes aren't ones I am interested in but I am far from "vanilla." I've had open and honest discussions about sex with every man I've been involved with pretty early on and definitely before sex. It saves a lot of headaches later on. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
therhythm Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 The examples you gave of fetishes aren't ones I am interested in but I am far from "vanilla." I've had open and honest discussions about sex with every man I've been involved with pretty early on and definitely before sex. It saves a lot of headaches later on. Ohh I totally agree but it is not the reality of the majority of the people. That is certain! Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Are women such as myself seen as prudish by a lot of good-intentioned men because of this viewpoint <of waiting until a solid relationship>? Firstly, if one accepts the definition of a prude from Wikipedia: The name is generally considered a pejorative term to suggest fear and contempt of human sexuality and excessive, unusual modesty stemming out from such a negative view of sexuality. It is hence unflattering, often used as an insult I think labeling a person who waits for a solid relationship to have sexual relations as a 'prude' would be a gross mislabeling, so a man who did so would have some issues of his own to examine. That said, people have different sexual and relationship styles and some people indeed have sex before a solid relationship is established and some do not. Either style has been around far longer than we have. Modern technology has enabled casual sex or sex outside of solid monogamous relationships to be safer, hence more people are likely to explore it as an option. Also, if it's not unrealistic to keep this viewpoint, how do I turn down sex during the heat of the moment without it being completely awkward? Do I just say it before we start messing around? One method would be to avoid private encounters, such as being in each other's homes alone, until clear boundaries and/or a solid relationship have/has been established. Another method would be, at any time, state 'I'm not ready for this (whatever this is)'. There is no rule or law stating a passionate kiss must lead to PIV sex. It's a continuum of sexual/romantic behavior which can be stopped/concluded at any point if both partners are not in agreement/consenting. If you generally prefer to have solid relationship parameters met before becoming sexual, that is something you can state/share far in advance of sexual activity being contemplated. This allows a potential partner to make an informed decision. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 (edited) It is fine if you are not fine with my post We don't need to agree! I speak about my own experience but also about what I see around me and what is common sense. To expand my comment (that has offended you so much)... If a man begin to date you and at this moment he doesn't have any other open options (FWB, other dates, other women intrested on dating him) he is more likely to accept that he needs to wait for sex as much as you want, at the end of the day he has no other options. But it that man who is beginning to date you and he has other open options (FWB, other woman who are interested on him or that are actually dating him at the same time) if you make him wait for sex he will find it in the other options. There is no love or commitment at that time yet so why would he wait and don't have sex with other people? Do you really expect a man to be in love of you in the first dates? Sorry but that is not common. You are operating on the assumption that all men, like you, need sex before they fall in love. I assure you that this isn't the case. It's fine to disagree on whether or not the opposite is common. In fact, I certainly am not claiming that it is common, although frankly I have personally had no problems finding such men. What I am saying, is that some men do fall in love with a woman before having sex with her (not necessarily on the first date), and some men do desire to commit to a woman (not necessarily marriage, but exclusivity) before having sex with her. And, surprise surprise, some men themselves prefer to get to know a woman and establish exclusivity before having sex! Ergo them choosing to wait is not necessarily related to whether or not they have 'options', as you claim. I can really tell you that there are much more pressure to women from their own gender to wait for sex than more men to not wait... actually when it comes to men it is as I said before in a 95% of the cases question of options. No, just... no. Please speak for yourself. You cannot possibly know what '95%' of men want or do, especially as you don't date men. Statements like these are precisely the sort of pressure I'm talking about. It insinuates that there is something 'wrong' with men who choose to wait, or that they are 'inferior'. Surely you can see that. BDSM it is in many cases much more than a fetish, for many people it is a life style and that is a game changer, the same as swinging for example, this are indeed a no brainer, you need to talk about this before entering in a relationship. But there are many kind of fetish and I can't imagine a guy telling a girl that he likes to be peed on, or f.ucked with an strapon before they even had the intimacy of having sex... this won't happen in the majority of the cases. People to whom a certain fetish is important (as opposed to being able to take it or leave it) should absolutely discuss it prior to having sex, IMO. In the case of that thread, it certainly seemed like it was important to him, otherwise he would have no problems leaving it aside when she told him she wasn't comfortable with it. Edited June 1, 2013 by Elswyth Link to post Share on other sites
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