Is waiting until the relationship is solid before having sex a thing of the past?

[therhythm]

I go for the same types of guys over and over again and constantly make the same mistakes with them. I think I can turn a bad boy, cocky, highly-desired player into a commited boyfriend. Hasn't happened yet. I haven't had an actual boyfriend in four years, but trust me, I've had plenty of what I described above.

 

I also continuously turn down "nice guys" who would probably make great boyfriends just because there's no excitement or spark there and the entire relationship feels, from the getgo, super boring and lacking passion. I am addicted to "the challenge."

 

The ironic part is that once I remove myself from the hooking up and we go our separate ways, a few months go by and I will, without fail, hear from these guys again. Because I'm not sexually involved anymore I can revert back to my witty, bitchy self and give them a piece of my mind, and they usually end up apologizing for being a dick and saying that it's too bad we don't live in the same place because he'd love to take me out on a nice date.

 

Getting out with a "nice guy" for whom you do not have any attraction will probably help you ...(not)

Finally you will make him pay for your incapacity of get commitment from the guys you are actually attracted too...

Life and love implies risks, if you are not willing to take those risks you have already lost!

[joystickd]

Unless you're in the same social circle or discussing your previous relationships or keeping in contact with someone you're no longer seeing, how would you know if the girl who was stringing you along all of a sudden was having sex with a new guy?

 

Yeah how would i know. Which brings up the point why even wait when as a man i run the chance of being strung along. How about one of you women explain that?

[Star Gazer]

I think the issue I see most with people my age (college-20's, not sure how long into the 30's it lasts) is the following; I would like to hear from others here. Is this their experience/how would you react in this situation?

 

For the purposes of explaining I will use fictional people, Mary and Mike.

 

Mike meets Mary out at a bar and they chat all night, hitting it off. Mary goes off to her friends so excited that she finally met a nice guy. Mike texts her the next day to see "What she's up to" the following week.

 

They up deciding to meet for drinks on a Wednesday. Mike is a perfect gentleman and picks up the tab. The two make out and Mary restrains herself from going further even though she is physically attracted and so excited about this great guy.

 

Weekend rolls around. Friday night Mike texts her to see "What she's up to" that night. She REALLY wants to meet up with him and convinces her girlfriends to go to the bar Mike and his friends are at. They end up heavily making out and Mary goes home with him. They do everything BUT oral/regular sex.

 

Mary wakes up in the morning hoping Mike will want to go to breakfast with her, but he says something about having a practice for his recreational kickball league at 11am and instead walks her out to find a cab home. Mary gushes to her friends at brunch about what an awesome tmie she had with Mike and how she thinks they are heading for a relationship.

 

Later the next week, Mary texts Mike during the work day the name of a song he said he couldn't remember. They text back and forth all week.

 

Weekend rolls around and again Mike asks on Friday what she's up to. She feels like since he is initiating contact and they've hung out a few times and have been texting all week that he MUST really like her. Again she convinces her friends to meet up with him at a bar.

 

That night they have sex. The next morning they have sex again and cuddle for a bit. Then Mike has to go to kickball practice again.

 

This continues ON AND ON AND ON for WEEKS. Once in awhile they will go for breakfast or meet up with a group after work for drinks. The common theme is that every weekend they end up together, no fail.

 

She starts freaking out because she's having to text him more and more to get in touch, but tries not to worry because she thinks it's okay since they know each other pretty well by now and they "hang out" and see each other pretty frequently.

 

Mike mentions in passing that his sister is getting married in a few weeks. Mary is SO PUMPED because she thinks he will bring her as his date. Nope. He makes no mention of it. Mary is crushed. That Friday though, without fail, he asks her to meet up at a bar or invites her to a pregame at his buddy's house.

 

Eventually she ends up crying to her friends that she doesn't know what to do because Mike is being "distant" and how can she get him to be her actual boyfriend?

 

She decides to bring up the convo of "what are we" with Mike and he skirts the issue completely.

 

Eventually they stop hanging out and that's it.

 

I see this happen OVER AND OVER again. It's a serial problem for people in their 20's...hook-up culture.

 

If we go with therhythm's advice and just have sex when we feel the "spark," this is often what happens! It's easy to feel the spark when you're with someone exciting and new, but how much of that is based on excitement and how much is based on reality?

 

The above scenario is why I choose to hold off on sex for a bit. Had this happen WAYYY too many times.

 

Thoughts?

 

That scenario isn't dating. That's casually hooking up, and I could have predicted that he'd skirt the issue. She created this situation for herself by creating a pattern of accepting day-of invites and meeting him at a bar and getting physical without anything else. There's no "dating" here, no courtship. It's pretty obvious.

[BluEyeL]

I dunno about others, but I would never go out for two months with a guy I don't feel chemistry with, and have no intention of having sex with. I usually know that if I accept a third date, it means I'm attracted to that guy. If I don't sleep with him it's just because I'm not there yet, psychologically. Never went beyond the third date, but the only reason I envision not sleeping with the guy after 2 months of constant dating would be him doing something bad, not treating me well, looking at other women, or me finding out that he's a sex offender or something of that nature. So I really don't get the fear you guys have about being friend zoned after x months.

 

On the other hand, I personally actually don't think that with a guy I like I can wait 2 months for sex. I think my internal timeline (how I feel it could progress) would be more like date 5 or 6. Looking forward to that happening after all!!

 

As for Daisy's story, Mary pushed him by initiating all the time, and just going to "hang out" with the guy. If she waited for him to ask her out on actual dates, she wouldn't have ended up hurt. True, maybe still wouldn't have ended up his girlfriend (most likely), but at least things wouldn't have progressed so far and she wouldn't have slept with him since he wasn't initiating dates anyway.

[daisybuchanan55]

Yes, I agree, but I find that most girls in their 20's have come to accept this behavior as typical practice and the men have become spoiled by it. I don't know too many men in their 20's who will "court" a girl. At least in my social circle, the guys (none of whom I date or hook up with for this reason) are more interested in smashing beer cans on their heads than going out for a nice dinner. It's a generational thing. The girls are just LIGHTYEARS ahead of the guys maturity-wise, outperforming them at school and work and basically using all these successes as signs that it's not a big deal to do things like pay for their half of the bill. It's a badddd pattern.

 

Just watch "Girls"...that's exactly what I'm talking about!

[BluEyeL]

Still, a girl shouldn't do what you described unless she wants to get hurt, or if she has no expectations of a relationship and wants to just enjoy the sex. There must be some nice 20 something boys, and you don't want the beer can smashing ones anyway.

[joystickd]

Still, a girl shouldn't do what you described unless she wants to get hurt, or if she has no expectations of a relationship and wants to just enjoy the sex. There must be some nice 20 something boys, and you don't want the beer can smashing ones anyway.

There are but she probably likes those types and blames hook up culture instead of herself for failing at dating.

[Els]

Yes, I agree, but I find that most girls in their 20's have come to accept this behavior as typical practice and the men have become spoiled by it. I don't know too many men in their 20's who will "court" a girl. At least in my social circle, the guys (none of whom I date or hook up with for this reason) are more interested in smashing beer cans on their heads than going out for a nice dinner. It's a generational thing. The girls are just LIGHTYEARS ahead of the guys maturity-wise, outperforming them at school and work and basically using all these successes as signs that it's not a big deal to do things like pay for their half of the bill. It's a badddd pattern.

 

Depends a lot on your social circle and culture, I'd think. I guess I'm very lucky to have been 'courted' most of the time, even starting from the early 20s.

 

Personally I'd not accept the sort of behaviour you mentioned from the guy. Would rather be single. I can't see what sort of pleasure a woman would get from a casual hookup outside a R - not judging those who do, I just can't see it. Men who sleep with you casually are unlikely to take the time and effort to get to know your body and really pleasure you IMO; so that's no orgasm and minimal pleasure for a lot of risk and potentially getting emotionally attached. No thanks.

[joystickd]

Depends a lot on your social circle and culture, I'd think. I guess I'm very lucky to have been 'courted' most of the time, even starting from the early 20s.

 

Personally I'd not accept the sort of behaviour you mentioned from the guy. Would rather be single. I can't see what sort of pleasure a woman would get from a casual hookup outside a R - not judging those who do, I just can't see it. Men who sleep with you casually are unlikely to take the time and effort to get to know your body and really pleasure you IMO; so that's no orgasm and minimal pleasure for a lot of risk and potentially getting emotionally attached. No thanks.

I will have to disagree with that. I know I give an orgasm to the women that I am with even with a casual one.

[therhythm]

 

I can't see what sort of pleasure a woman would get from a casual hookup outside a R - not judging those who do, I just can't see it. Men who sleep with you casually are unlikely to take the time and effort to get to know your body and really pleasure you IMO; so that's no orgasm and minimal pleasure for a lot of risk and potentially getting emotionally attached. No thanks.

 

If a guy needs lots of time to know how to pleasure you he doesn't know what he is doing...

[Els]

If a guy needs lots of time to know how to pleasure you he doesn't know what he is doing...

 

Slightly overconfident, don't you think?

 

Women are quite different. What works for one woman might not work for another; most men orgasm solely from penile stimulation, but some women prefer clitoral, some prefer vaginal, some even prefer anal. Some like their nipples stimulated, some don't... it goes on.

 

There are some approaches that work reasonably well for a significant % of the population, but the best Os and the most pleasurable encounters take time, emotional connection, and familiarity to achieve. Feel free to disagree with me, but I don't see why you (therhythm in this case, not you joystickd) feel the need to constantly try to one-up other men in this topic. How does it benefit you?

 

For what it's worth, most of the women I have spoken to on LS, including those who have had plenty of casual sex with lots of partners, have agreed with this sentiment, so perhaps it may be best to ask them rather than go based on what you think you can do?

[Els]

I will have to disagree with that. I know I give an orgasm to the women that I am with even with a casual one.

 

Well, I'll take your word for it. I'm certainly not saying that all women can't enjoy casual sex (some certainly do - good for them!), nor that no man can possibly give a woman pleasure during a casual sex encounter. But by and large, the majority of women seem to list sex in a relationship as their most fulfilling encounters, while many say that most of the men who engage in casual sex don't bother to please the woman first.

[therhythm]

Slightly overconfident, don't you think?

 

Women are quite different. What works for one woman might not work for another; most men orgasm solely from penile stimulation, but some women prefer clitoral, some prefer vaginal, some even prefer anal. Some like their nipples stimulated, some don't... it goes on.

 

There are some approaches that work reasonably well for a significant % of the population, but the best Os and the most pleasurable encounters take time, emotional connection, and familiarity to achieve. Feel free to disagree with me, but I don't see why you (therhythm in this case, not you joystickd) feel the need to constantly try to one-up other men in this topic. How does it benefit you?

 

For what it's worth, most of the women I have spoken to on LS, including those who have had plenty of casual sex with lots of partners, have agreed with this sentiment, so perhaps it may be best to ask them rather than go based on what you think you can do?

 

I am not overconfident, I have a past history that proofs my point.

Of course women are different but trial and error never fails, I always say that a woman body is like a music instrument, you need to know how to touch it to get music from it and women usually have a mouth they can use to say what they like too...

Believe me I have had women begging me to marry them after having sex with them

Edited June 2, 2013 by therhythm

[KathyM]

These women are not the majority. It is very difficult for any man to find a woman that believes this, actually sticks to it, is interested in him, and clicks with him.

 

I believe that it is equally hard to find a man like this.

Not that hard, if you know where to look. But I would agree with you that men and women with high moral values when it comes to sex are in the minority. The majority give it away too freely, and then they are left with a history of having had sex with guys they barely know, guys that meant nothing, guys that they had dated for a while but now can't stand, or guys that dumped them and they no longer have a connection with. There's something to be said for being selective and waiting to bring sex into the relationship until the relationship is solid.

[daisybuchanan55]

FACT: most girls have faked an orgasm. I've done it sooooo many times! Guys, get over yourselves. I kind of believe therhythm simply because of the business he was in, but all you other males?? HAHAHA. JOKES!!!

 

That's not to say the woman isn't enjoying herself. I don't need to climax to have an awesome sexual experience. For me it's as much as the emotional connection as the physical one.

 

Anyway, back to the topic.

 

Jonas said guys in their 20s won't court a girl because they don't want to be relegated to a platonic friendship.

 

HAHAHAHAHA. NO! WAY!

 

They won't court a girl because they don't have to. Why would they want a girlfriend when they can have sex without any commitment/time taken away from their beer buddies?

[Star Gazer]

Just watch "Girls"...that's exactly what I'm talking about!

 

Those girls live incredibly emotionally unhealthy lives. The creator has even said so; it mimics her life before she woke up and realized what she was doing to herself.

 

Does it happen? Yes. That's why it's relatable to so many women. But when I watch that show, I literally cringe and feel sick, as I'm reminded of some VERY POOR choices in my 20's that I WISH I didn't gain "experience" (code word for "bad mistakes") from.

[joystickd]

FACT: most girls have faked an orgasm. I've done it sooooo many times! Guys, get over yourselves. I kind of believe therhythm simply because of the business he was in, but all you other males?? HAHAHA. JOKES!!!

 

That's not to say the woman isn't enjoying herself. I don't need to climax to have an awesome sexual experience. For me it's as much as the emotional connection as the physical one.

 

Anyway, back to the topic.

 

Jonas said guys in their 20s won't court a girl because they don't want to be relegated to a platonic friendship.

 

HAHAHAHAHA. NO! WAY!

 

They won't court a girl because they don't have to. Why would they want a girlfriend when they can have sex without any commitment/time taken away from their beer buddies?

 

Actually unless she has some mental barriers if you know what you are doing a man can make any woman orgasm

[BluEyeL]

FACT: most girls have faked an orgasm.

 

I've never faked an orgasm.

 

But I see how a guy you'd go for an ONS with might just "dive in" without much forplay, leading to no orgasm. That's because he doesn't care about you and doesn't want to see you much, so he could be more selfish.

 

What is that business that the rythm used to be into? Dancer? Gigolo?

[Woggle]

Women share half the blame for the state of relationships these days and the hookup culture and men share the other half. If we really do want to change things men and women need to get honest with themselves and each other and start making changes. What I see in threads like this is a bunch of people pointing the finger at the opposite sex without looking in the mirror.

 

Not saying that women do anything but men these days feel they have no incentive whatsoever to court women and be gentlemen. Right or wrong that is a perception that many men have and they sincerely do believe this. If men felt more incentive to court women more would do so.

[Els]

Women share half the blame for the state of relationships these days and the hookup culture and men share the other half. If we really do want to change things men and women need to get honest with themselves and each other and start making changes. What I see in threads like this is a bunch of people pointing the finger at the opposite sex without looking in the mirror.

 

Sounds a lot like selective reading to me.

[Woggle]

Sounds a lot like selective reading to me.

 

I never said every member in here was saying it but there are many people who just like to point the finger at one gender without looking at their own. I mean this for both genders.

[MoreThanThat]

I think it is prudish, not that it is a bad thing, just compared to me.

 

 

I just don't see the point in waiting out of fear, the beautiful thing about relationships is the risk. I fully believe in just jumping in and seeing what happens and going with the flow. Unplanned, I want you sex, is amazing, and I don't think waiting makes any relationship more likely to last, or giving it up too soon, more likely to not work.

 

 

 

I think people who hold out on sex for them it is a control thing, and in a way, it is a game, a game I don't like to play.

 

Nothing is guaranteed, so I could either have great sex and have it not work out, or no sex and have it not work out. Or, I could have great sex and it work out.

 

From my experience, if a man likes you, when you have sex doesn't matter that much. So why not do it sooner?

 

To each their own though!

 

I think when you are older, you may view this differently. If I had sex with every male there was mutual sexual attraction, I'd probably have been with well over 100 men by now! I've ALWAYS been able to know before having sex with someone that it would be great sex by how things were before we actually got there. For some women, having dozens upon dozens of sexual partners is no big thing but for me? I'd prefer to reserve actual sex for someone where there is long-term potential.

[therhythm]

I've never faked an orgasm.

 

But I see how a guy you'd go for an ONS with might just "dive in" without much forplay, leading to no orgasm. That's because he doesn't care about you and doesn't want to see you much, so he could be more selfish.

 

What is that business that the rythm used to be into? Dancer? Gigolo?

 

Both if you want to know... I like better male escort but hey people called me too many names by now to really care much about that.

[KungFuJoe]

Holy christ people...men do this, women do that, society expects this...blah blah fu*king blah.

 

Just do what you want to do and what feels right. You can't worry about what the general population wants or expects...no one is living your life but YOU.

 

And besides...the vast majority of human population are complete idiots. And you're really going to live your life based on what a bunch of idiots think and say?

[Star Gazer]

It's hard to lose.

Think about it, if a guy ends things after sleeping with him, he isn't the guy for you anyways.

 

The right one sticks around no matter what.

 

No, no "no matter what." It really depends.

 

If you're more sexually "free" (as you seem to be), then yes, if a guy ditches you after sexing you right away, then he's not the right guy for you.

 

But if you're using sex as a way to catch a man, thinking sex = love, thinking that sex = relationship, then the guy who would/might be right for you, still might bail.

 

You can't just throw this laissez-faire attitude towards sex, whether that's with waiting or doing it right away. Sex changes things. To say it doesn't, is just...wrong. For those who want it right away, not getting it changes things. For those who want a more cautious and discerning woman, having it right away changes things. Even when the desire and the action match, it changes things.