Should I tell her the truth, or not?

[Teknoe]

This girl is driving me nuts. Here's the situation in a nutshell

 

-She is in a relationship, but it doesn't seem like something she's super content or happy with. Had complained about it in the past, using terms like "I feel like I'm going nowhere" "I feel like I've wasted the last 5 years of my life, career and relationship wise" etc. In other words, she is taken, but seems to be open.

 

-We're friends and I've fallen fairly hard for this girl

 

-We've had some nice 1-on-1 hang outs recently. 3 in like 3 weeks, each time hours and hours feel like 30 minutes. I feel like we got such a nice connection/rapport going

 

So, here's where I want advice.

 

Should I just email her the truth? I don't want to make it sound "ultimatum-y" but I was thinking of something like this. I could say it in person I suppose, or over the phone, but it might be too awkward for me. I don't need her to respond immediately as well, which is why I also feel email may work better

 

Something along the lines of this

 

"Hey Jen,

I enjoyed the time we spent the last several weeks. And the more we spend time together, the more I realize and the more I can't deny that I am feeling you. I know you got a boyfriend but I'm still feeling you. Although I value your friendship greatly, out of respect to you and your boyfriend I don't think we can remain friends. If you're single again at some point, you know where to reach me.

-Tek"

 

Too dramatic? Too over the top?

 

I'm weighing pros and cons of sending a similar message to my crush

 

Pros:

 

-Puts the truth out in the light/open. Avoids friend zone, for better or worse

-Bold

-Expresses my feelings in a way I tend to keep bottled up

 

Cons:

 

-Could well lose her friendship

-Could blow up in my face

-Risk of failure

-Email too dramatically stated?

 

Please help me out with your opinions. Part of me feels if I just stick around, we'll continue building our friendship, she'll dump him or he'll dump her, and then I can swoop in. Somehow though, it feels less honest. At least if I email her I'd be letting her know where I stand.

 

help!

Edited May 31, 2013 by Teknoe

[pcplod]

What would be dishonest about being patient? Many decisions/actions are primarily issues about timing. Sometimes the timing is never right. Such is life. Unrequited love is a reality. You have indicated nothing to suggest that she even might feel about you as you do about her. You are, presently, her male friend. You are considering forcing the issue. How do you expect that to play out? Would you ultimately be happy about that?

[Teknoe]

What would be dishonest about being patient? Many decisions/actions are primarily issues about timing. Sometimes the timing is never right. Such is life. Unrequited love is a reality. You have indicated nothing to suggest that she even might feel about you as you do about her. You are, presently, her male friend. You are considering forcing the issue. How do you expect that to play out? Would you ultimately be happy about that?

 

I dunno. I have mixed opinions on it. Sometimes I find waiting it out is best. See what happens, worst comes to worst, learn to accept a good friendship for what it is.

 

OTOH, doing something bold like that is very black and white. You'll know one way or another if she's interested or might be in the future.

 

I might drive myself crazy all summer if I play the "wait and see" game. The longer I wait the more awkward it becomes to tell her the truth as well.

[Aerrie]

Do not be "friends" with a girl for ****s sake, this always happens.

 

Maybe you will learn after this crashes and burns?

[sillyanswer]

Doing that by email seems like passing notes in, I think Americans call it, middle school.

 

Do it face to face and keep it much shorter. Next time you're talking about relationships, hers or yours or in general, tell her you'd date her if she was single. And leave it at that.

[Imajerk17]

NO. No. N-O.

 

(10 )

 

Edit: The Nice Guy Confessional almost never works. And maybe you want to go back and reread your last thread where a few of us were warning you and how you kept insisting your situation was "different".....

 

Actions speak louder than words. Everyone including your friend is really doing what she wants to do.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Imajerk17

[mammasita]

Definitely NOT trying to rain on your parade or be intentionally rude - Im asking out of pure curiosity....

 

If you and this girl were together, how would you feel if she was spending one on one time with another man?

 

In any case, I agree with waiting it out.

[Imajerk17]

I reread the above where you were going to tell her over email that you can't stay friends. My reading comprehension was slightly off the first time. That said your email would still make you sound chippy and it would be a (male) drama queen move.

 

Meanwhile I really do hope you revisit your last thread where you were dismissive of the advice warning you of what might happen when you get so emotionally involved with a woman who is taken.... You kept insisting your situation was different but it really is not.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Imajerk17

[Calvin's wagon]

Teknoe,

 

I was in a way in a situation similar to yours, so I think I can understand what you're going through.

 

I'd like to ask you a question (which I later asked myself) -> would you really want to be in a relationship with someone who acts like her:

1.) Spends 1-1 time with a single guy who likes her (I think girls recognize when guys like them) when she has such a long-term boyfriend?

2.) Complains a lot about her relationship to this single guy?

3.) Possibly trying look for a safety net/finding a replacement for her current boyfriend before breaking up with him? So basically looking to see if you are boyfriend material/she has chemistry with you before she breaks up with him?

4.) Isn't mature & honest. She rather complains about her relationship instead of either trying to work the problems out with her BF or breaking up with him instead of continuing to "waste her time"?

5.) Does her BF know about you and her spending time alone etc.? If he doesn't, she basically lying by omission. Do you want a relationship with someone like her?

 

I could list several other things, and if you gave us more info (how much you talk otherwise, what you guys do when you're alone, talk about etc.), we could perhaps see if she has other problems, and if she's perhaps already coming close to emotionally cheating on her BF with you.

 

Do you really want to be with her? Wouldn't you worry about her doing the

same to you what she did to him, no matter how great you'd be to/for her?

 

Plus, honestly ask yourself if you think it's right what she's doing to him? Ask yourself if it's inappropriate for her to hang out with you like that, if it's close to coming to (emotional) cheating/inappropriate behaviour?

 

Like you said yourself, you're backing off (among other reasons) out of respect for her BF. Why isn't she showing this respect to her BF and you?

 

 

 

Anyway, what I learnt (and it was a harsh and drawn out lesson) was to stay away from women in relationships, unless I've known them for ages (3-5+ years) and there's absolutely no attraction (at least not anymore, for several years). Anything else leads to trouble, and I felt (and still do) really guilty vis-a-vis her BF, for being a part of her disrespectful behaviour.

 

Bottom line, if I were you, I would probably not want to date her even if she became single very soon.

 

1.) She has too many character flaws and immaturity, which take a lot of time to resolve/grow out of (speaking from my dealing with my own flaws, unhealthy behaviour patterns, and from my experience with others)

2.) I'd worry she'd do the same to me

3.) I wouldn't trust her

4.) I'd feel guilty (re: her BF)

5.) After 5 year relationship, she probably won't be ready for a serious, healthy, functional relationship. I wouldn't want you to be a rebound or to get hurt by her due to her unresolved issues and immaturity etc.

6.) many more reasons

 

Bottom line, I'd thank her for the great time together, tell her that out of respect you WILL NOT (instead of "i don't think we can..." semi-open suggestion) spend time with her anymore. Suggest her that she works on her relationship with her boyfriend and on herself.

 

I wouldn't say anything to her about contacting you when/if she's single. I'd feel like that would be slightly trying to nudge her to break up with her, or giving her kind of a "safety net" feeling or saying that you would/will date her if/when she's single. Don't give any such hints. If/when she is single, if she will remember, she will contact you, imo, even if you don't say anything.

 

But if you're hell-bent on including something about this in your message to her, I'd:

- mention that if she'll ever be single in the future & ready for a serious relationship (

- add that if she'll be interested in a relationship with you (this way, you don't get friendzoned by her after her break up)

- to contact you and see if you will perhaps be interested in dating/relationship with her (this way, you're letting her know that there's quite a chance that you won't be interested in her (anymore)).

 

Anyway, if you want to talk more about it, let us/me know, but I would seriously suggest reconsidering ever again being friends with her or getting involved romantically.

 

Learn how to be happy on your own and then try to meet single women who are ready for a healthy relationship!

 

Best wishes!

[Calvin's wagon]

A couple of things I forgot to add:

 

1.) It's definitely better to send her this message by e-mail, because otherwise there's a chance she'll manipulate you in a face-to-face/phone conversation to continue to interact with her

 

2.) After that, go NC with her (and tell her you are going NC and that she shouldn't contact you)

 

3.) Really, really important - work on yourself, ask yourself WHY you were willing to get involved with someone like her! Like someone said, you remind me of myself when I was a "Nice guy" (not a compliment:)) - I'd strongly recommend reading "No more mr. Nice guy" by Robert Glover (available for free online in PDF, if you search "No more mr. nice guy pdf" in google and click the 7chan.org link.

 

Best wishes

[Calvin's wagon]

Oh, and lastly - if it wasn't clear from my post, I really admire and think it's a great sign for you that you weren't satisfied with this and that you are aware that the situation is bad, and will not be a part of it anymore!

 

I wish I had realized that in my situation much sooner.

 

Best of luck in working on yourself and finding a girl who will be "right" for you!

[ReelAhdvice]

find someone who is truly single and available.

[Teknoe]

Teknoe,

 

I was in a way in a situation similar to yours, so I think I can understand what you're going through.

 

I'd like to ask you a question (which I later asked myself) -> would you really want to be in a relationship with someone who acts like her:

1.) Spends 1-1 time with a single guy who likes her (I think girls recognize when guys like them) when she has such a long-term boyfriend?

2.) Complains a lot about her relationship to this single guy?

3.) Possibly trying look for a safety net/finding a replacement for her current boyfriend before breaking up with him? So basically looking to see if you are boyfriend material/she has chemistry with you before she breaks up with him?

4.) Isn't mature & honest. She rather complains about her relationship instead of either trying to work the problems out with her BF or breaking up with him instead of continuing to "waste her time"?

5.) Does her BF know about you and her spending time alone etc.? If he doesn't, she basically lying by omission. Do you want a relationship with someone like her?

 

I could list several other things, and if you gave us more info (how much you talk otherwise, what you guys do when you're alone, talk about etc.), we could perhaps see if she has other problems, and if she's perhaps already coming close to emotionally cheating on her BF with you.

 

Do you really want to be with her? Wouldn't you worry about her doing the

same to you what she did to him, no matter how great you'd be to/for her?

 

Plus, honestly ask yourself if you think it's right what she's doing to him? Ask yourself if it's inappropriate for her to hang out with you like that, if it's close to coming to (emotional) cheating/inappropriate behaviour?

 

Like you said yourself, you're backing off (among other reasons) out of respect for her BF. Why isn't she showing this respect to her BF and you?

 

Anyway, what I learnt (and it was a harsh and drawn out lesson) was to stay away from women in relationships, unless I've known them for ages (3-5+ years) and there's absolutely no attraction (at least not anymore, for several years). Anything else leads to trouble, and I felt (and still do) really guilty vis-a-vis her BF, for being a part of her disrespectful behaviour.

 

Bottom line, if I were you, I would probably not want to date her even if she became single very soon.

 

1.) She has too many character flaws and immaturity, which take a lot of time to resolve/grow out of (speaking from my dealing with my own flaws, unhealthy behaviour patterns, and from my experience with others)

2.) I'd worry she'd do the same to me

3.) I wouldn't trust her

4.) I'd feel guilty (re: her BF)

5.) After 5 year relationship, she probably won't be ready for a serious, healthy, functional relationship. I wouldn't want you to be a rebound or to get hurt by her due to her unresolved issues and immaturity etc.

6.) many more reasons

 

Bottom line, I'd thank her for the great time together, tell her that out of respect you WILL NOT (instead of "i don't think we can..." semi-open suggestion) spend time with her anymore. Suggest her that she works on her relationship with her boyfriend and on herself.

 

I wouldn't say anything to her about contacting you when/if she's single. I'd feel like that would be slightly trying to nudge her to break up with her, or giving her kind of a "safety net" feeling or saying that you would/will date her if/when she's single. Don't give any such hints. If/when she is single, if she will remember, she will contact you, imo, even if you don't say anything.

 

But if you're hell-bent on including something about this in your message to her, I'd:

- mention that if she'll ever be single in the future & ready for a serious relationship (

- add that if she'll be interested in a relationship with you (this way, you don't get friendzoned by her after her break up)

- to contact you and see if you will perhaps be interested in dating/relationship with her (this way, you're letting her know that there's quite a chance that you won't be interested in her (anymore)).

 

Anyway, if you want to talk more about it, let us/me know, but I would seriously suggest reconsidering ever again being friends with her or getting involved romantically.

 

Thanks. My head knows it's dangerous to flirt/entertain a woman like this. My heart says we might be "soulmates" (LOL... I know I know). I mean, I've heard of stories where a taken girl was meeting up with a single guy, and she eventually dumped her BF and then the new couple marries. If it's meant to be it's meant to be right?

 

That's a very dangerous gray line.

 

Lemme answer your 5

 

1. Yeah, if we get together there's a possibility she will do that to ME. if she has it in herself to do it to me, why wouldn't she do it to someone else? I understand this with my head, but my heart still goes "Man, I haven't felt this close a connection to someone in a long time. On top of that, I find her totally attractive and I could actually see us being together... like, she's not out of my league"

 

2. She doesn't complain about him a whole lot. Just a few scant times

 

3. That's fair of her to do. I'm assessing her while she is assessing me. I understand it goes with the territory. We're all adults and we have to live with the choices we make, for better or worse. I do agree however that she should first communicate with her BF.

 

4. That might be a stretch, I'm not sure. I think she could be more honest with the BF, and as a result, be more mature. But to call her dishonest and immature? Dunno if we can judge her like that fairly. She's an adult making her own choices. She is not married to him. Again, I've heard of marriages that started from a girl being taken but leaving her crappy BF for her right fit guy.

 

5. I dunno if the BF knows or not.

 

 

I could list several other things, and if you gave us more info (how much you talk otherwise, what you guys do when you're alone, talk about etc.), we could perhaps see if she has other problems, and if she's perhaps already coming close to emotionally cheating on her BF with you.

 

We talk weekly, although lately it's been amplified because she is trying to apply for an open position at my work place. However, yesterday I found out it was filled and so told her. I expect us to talk less now, naturally, as a result of that closed door.

 

When we're alone we're just sitting and talking about school and life. Mainly about school though. We're both 1st year teachers, same grade level, so we have a lot to connect on there. The last meeting I had with her was to help her on my school's application.

 

She did bring up regrets about some life decisions in the last 5 years of her life, including career and relationship. I found it odd that she lumped relationship in the mix. I asked her about career mistakes, but did not go into the relationship end. I probably should have, but something held me back. It seemed to me like she was cracking the door open for me to make a move, express myself somehow boldly or maybe even offer her a lifeline of sorts.

 

I didn't though, and now that window/moment may have ultimately passed.

 

It's like "close, but no cigar."

 

I guess I'll simmer down. Take a knee. Stand pat. Do a self-eval. Part of me is torn though. I wish I just knew how she views me, romantically. If she's into me, then I could at least make a decision on what to do next. Rather than shutting it out, and always left wondering. Damn.

 

BTW here's a vid DIRECTED to me and her. You'll get a lot of background info if you watch this Q&A vid that a youtube personality did for my email.

 

Basically after that youtube episode, we kinda laid low. Then we reconnected in March and it's been pretty strong since, but the peak was probably last Friday when we went out 1 on 1 to talk about the school application and work related topics. I don't anticipate seeing her again in real life at any point soon. Maybe it's for the best.

 

so yeah, watch this and get the background story on this girl and me

 

 

I know, she sounds shady to a lot of people. I think she's just liberal and friendly. She might also see me as the harmless "platonic gay safe guy friend" lol

[somedude81]

From one of my threads.

I don't think you'll sound like a jerk, as long as you steer clear of the words "I don't want to be your friend". Just say something like, "hey, I think you're great and I'd love to take you on a date if you were single". You'll know from her reaction where it's going. If it doesn't head the way you want it to, just quietly distance yourself. It doesn't have to be an ultimatum.

Hell, it worked for me.

 

It's honest, it get's your intentions out and gives her some wiggle room to respond and think.

[Teknoe]

From one of my threads.

 

Hell, it worked for me.

 

It's honest, it get's your intentions out and gives her some wiggle room to respond and think.

 

Thanks for the tip.

 

I like that line too for the most part... the only thing is... "if you were single" seems to imply that you're giving her a safety net... like you want her to break up, or trying to manipulate her hand, rather than keeping it neutral and having her make up her own mind. Along the lines of what Calvin's wagon wrote about.

 

If she likes me, breaks up with her BF, then she'll remember me. Then it'll be more like it was meant to be... rather than trying to force her hand just to date me which might not even work.

 

BTW congrats on your personal success SD. I have to admit I am partially jealous. You're going through a good stretch and I'm stuck in limbo here. Ride the wave as long as you can.

[Calvin's wagon]

Hi!

 

Thanks. My head knows it's dangerous to flirt/entertain a woman like this.

 

Listen to your head!

 

My heart says we might be "soulmates" (LOL... I know I know). I mean, I've heard of stories where a taken girl was meeting up with a single guy, and she eventually dumped her BF and then the new couple marries. If it's meant to be it's meant to be right?

 

1. Where have you heard of these stories?

2. How many such stories have you heard?

3. Have you heard of the continuation of these stories? What happens 1,2,5 years after the wedding?

4. How many stories have you heard when the taken girl/guy end cheating on the new guy as well? I have certainly read many more such stories than of the "happy ending" stories...

 

Soulmates? I don't mean to be too harsh, but sometimes our "hearts" can deceive us!

 

First of all, I don't think there's just "one" soulmate for everyone.

 

Secondly, I strongly suggest you go read the "other man/woman" and "infidelity" sections - there are hundreds of stories of people who were confident that the other person was their soulmate etc.. I'm not saying that you're wrong, or that you are being an other man, but I just want to remind you that quite often we can't trust what we think we feel/have, and that the girl in your story is starting to remind me of the APs in those stories...

 

Yeah, if we get together there's a possibility she will do that to ME. if she has it in herself to do it to me, why wouldn't she do it to someone else? I understand this with my head, but my heart still goes "Man, I haven't felt this close a connection to someone in a long time.

 

Really, I know what you mean. But look, I think it will be better for you to let go of this girl, because she has also shown she has a bit weird boundaries and too relaxed a view of what is good&bad for a relationship.

 

Try to maintain a completely professional working relationship with her (if you have to have a professional relationship with her), and nothing more. It can be done (the "NC" Caliguy worked with his ex yet maintained NC). When you do this, you will make room in your heart and mind for a single girl who will rock your world AND won't have such problems with boundaries/relationship conflict resolution/respect for her significant other etc.

 

On top of that, I find her totally attractive and I could actually see us being together... like, she's not out of my league"

 

I'm not sure why you mentioned her being out of your league? Do you perhaps mean that you have self-esteem issues?

 

She doesn't complain about him a whole lot. Just a few scant times

 

Still, she does... She should be talking about this with her BF or her female friends or her gay/really really old-time male friends. Not a relatively new male guy in her life/someone who potentially likes her. No matter if it was just a few times.

 

That's fair of her to do.

 

You really think this is fair of her towards her BF? To be assessing you? Look, ok, but just try imagine your GF doing that to you with some other guy! I saw in that video that you've been cheated on. How does this not bother you?! I would think you would be really careful of red flags in girls you meet, to try to avoid getting involved with another cheater?!

 

She is not married to him.

 

Do you think there are big differences in how one should respect, address problems, boundaries, ..., in a long-term relationship and a marriage?

 

I dunno if the BF knows or not.

 

If the guy would know about you two and what you talked about etc., do you think he would be ok with it?

 

If the guy doesn't know, why do you think she didn't tell him?

 

Has she ever mentioned to you that she talked to him about you (as a coworker etc.)?

 

leaving her crappy BF for her right fit guy.

 

1. If a person leaves his/her SO for another person/immediately gets together with another person, than I'd say that person also behaved wrongly (even though her SO was "crappy"). If it was so crappy, why didn't she try to resolve issues, and, failing that, break up before securing the replacement? Break up, heal, and only then move on to dating, to make sure she doesn't go for a rebound?

 

2. How do you know he's a crappy BF and that she's not a crappy GF (as well)? Again, read the other man/woman section. You have only her word for it.

 

Also, you yourself said

I do agree however that she should first communicate with her BF.

 

That's "crappy" relationship behaviour from her side...

 

I probably should have, but something held me back. It seemed to me like she was cracking the door open for me to make a move, express myself somehow boldly or maybe even offer her a lifeline of sorts.

 

If that's true, she wanted to cheat on her BF with you. To do to her BF what your ex GF did to you. Sorry...

 

I didn't though, and now that window/moment may have ultimately passed.

 

It's like "close, but no cigar."

 

I'm glad you didn't. It shows you're basically a very decent guy who wouldn't do what your ex GF and the guy with whom she cheated did to you.

 

I guess I'll simmer down. Take a knee. Stand pat. Do a self-eval.

 

I wouldn't stand pat, I would set strict boundaries to ensure a strict professional relationship with her.

 

Yes, definitely do a self-eval!

 

And

 

Part of me is torn though. I wish I just knew how she views me, romantically. If she's into me, then I could at least make a decision on what to do next.

 

Really? If she's into you, you'd go for her? Despite everything that has happened to you and what we've told you, despite the fact that you rationally know you should stay away?

 

And honestly, even after ignoring everything else (her character flaws her behaviour exhibits), the fact remains she wouldn't have any time between her old relationship and you. And she would need this time to get him out of her head&heart, to get rid of all emotions for him, so that after the honeymoon period would pass, she wouldn't start comparing you two, thinking about him, etc. Don't be a rebound to her.

 

And we can't ignore her behaviour - people don't change that quickly - she'll need a lot of time and work to realize the mistakes she's been making, how to communicate in a relationship etc.

 

BTW here's a vid DIRECTED to me and her. You'll get a lot of background info if you watch this Q&A vid that a youtube personality did for my email.

 

I watched. In many parts I agree with him. Like he said, she's likely to do the same to you...

 

I know, she sounds shady to a lot of people. I think she's just liberal and friendly. She might also see me as the harmless "platonic gay safe guy friend" lol

 

How does liberal equate with her talking to single men about her huge relationship problems ("wasting her years"), instead of doing this with her BF and her (female/long-term guy friends)? Etc.?

 

Look, there's a small chance your story is meant to be the best love story. But in my opinion, there's a much bigger chance you'll get hurt by her, either consciously or inadvertently. After your experience with being cheated on, I hope you will realize to stay away from taken women.

 

Best wishes!

[Teknoe]

My ex "cheated" on me... but not really (in the physical sense). What happened was she met with her ex while we were together. They didn't get physical but he said he wanted to get back.

 

So she broke up with me first, and then got with him.

 

As of right now, I guess I'm hell bent on crashing and burning. I plan to call her up Sunday night, ask if we can meet up Monday night and there I'll talk to her in person about my feelings. She's a big girl, she can make up her own mind from there.

 

I'm just tired from being the nice safe guy. For once I want to do something a little radical, take a huge risk and I know I will get hurt in the process, but I also feel like I could learn from taking a risk like this.

 

I know many are shaking their head right about now, but I feel like this is just something I have to do for myself. Maybe it's all part of growing up and growing out of my shell.

 

I might have already friend zoned myself, though... still, something I gotta chance and go for.

[Calvin's wagon]

Hi!

 

Well, just one last thing here, since you're so intent on doing what you know is wrong and bad.

 

I get it. I get that you're tired of being the safe nice guy. I was tired too. Until I realized that being a "nice guy" actually means that I had issues, which needed to be resolved.

 

So I'd strongly recommend you start reading a book called "No more mr. Nice guy" by Robert Glover. It has helped me immensely, and hope it will help you as well. You can read it for free online, if you Google search "no more mister nice guy pdf" and click the 7chan link.

 

You can stop being a "Nice guy" without going after taken girls! Please, read the book, before you make a decision. Trust me, as a former "nice guy" and someone who's been cheated on, left for someone else, who nearly got involved with a taken girl,... I wish I had read the book sooner. Then maybe I wouldn't feel so bad about the taken girl's boyfriend, wouldn't feel like a hypocrite and a piece of scum.

 

You can still go through with your plan even after reading the book. What do you have to lose if you read the book first?

[Teknoe]

update: The friendship might be over. At the very least, it's on a major hiatus, until the intensity calms down.

 

We hadn't talked in several days now, and she didn't respond to any small emails I sent her and other friends. Usually she does. I knew the silence was a bad sign.

 

Texted her Sunday if she wanted to get dinner this week.

 

No reply yet. The text said it was delayed by 2 hours, but that it got delivered. Pretty sure she got it, read it and just chose to ignore it.

 

So that tells me for whatever reason, she's done with me. I never told her straight up, but my strong actions in the past week probably scared her off. So now she's gonna avoid me or come back to me when she feels lonely 2-3 months from now.

 

I know it's for the best. It had to end one way or another. It hurts, but time heals all wounds. Time to focus on myself and future note: do not fall for taken girls. In fact, stay the hell away.

 

edit: Calvin, I skimmed through the book. Interesting. Thanks.

I think my lesson is to be real with girls going forward. Stating my interest and intent early on. Not playing it safe or conservatively.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Teknoe

[vickvagner]

You don't know unless you ask-

 

Some people, both men and women, are not confident, and can't imagine someone else liking them - many more women feel this way than men think.

 

I am all for honesty here-

 

In person some time when you see her, just say -

"Can I have 5 minutes to be completely honest about something that's been on my mind?"

She'll say 'sure'

"I'm really surprised, but I find myself having some pretty strong feelings for you, and its to the point that its tough. I just want you to know how I feel, and the ball's in your court."

 

Worst case - she says she's sorry, she's in a relationship, she's not interested except as friends.

 

I doubt she'll say that - in fact, I have a feeling the rest of your night will go considerably better than that.

[Teknoe]

You don't know unless you ask-

 

Some people, both men and women, are not confident, and can't imagine someone else liking them - many more women feel this way than men think.

 

I am all for honesty here-

 

In person some time when you see her, just say -

"Can I have 5 minutes to be completely honest about something that's been on my mind?"

She'll say 'sure'

"I'm really surprised, but I find myself having some pretty strong feelings for you, and its to the point that its tough. I just want you to know how I feel, and the ball's in your court."

 

Worst case - she says she's sorry, she's in a relationship, she's not interested except as friends.

 

I doubt she'll say that - in fact, I have a feeling the rest of your night will go considerably better than that.

 

 

Problem is, I don't know when I'll see her next. The momentum has been lost, for better or worse. Even if we hang out in say, July, me telling her that out of nowhere would be weird, and awkward. I had to strike now, or in the last week, but I didn't. Now it's a lost cause either way.

 

We had a lot of meet ups and momentum April-May. Now it just seems like a silly desperate confession. A hail mary.

[Els]

Is this the same girl you were talking about?

 

I'm sorry it turned out this way, but IMO it's for the best, rather than you hanging around for several months more for no reason. It hurts to lose a friendship, but unfortunately sometimes you need to, to move on - such is life. I do not see anything wrong with telling her the truth, frankly, as long as everything is transparent - ie you don't encourage her to start up something with you behind her bf's back.

 

But really, I think the best thing for you to do is to move on in this case.

[Teknoe]

Is this the same girl you were talking about?

 

I'm sorry it turned out this way, but IMO it's for the best, rather than you hanging around for several months more for no reason. It hurts to lose a friendship, but unfortunately sometimes you need to, to move on - such is life. I do not see anything wrong with telling her the truth, frankly, as long as everything is transparent - ie you don't encourage her to start up something with you behind her bf's back.

 

But really, I think the best thing for you to do is to move on in this case.

 

Same girl.

 

Yeah, telling her the truth at this point seems selfish when it's pretty clear she knows and is avoiding me. It'd be different if we were still in the thick and middle of connecting and hanging out.

 

Plus, with us not meeting up at this point, my only way to tell her would be email which is a no no. I wanna tell her in person, but see no reason for us to hang out now.

 

This is pretty much a shut and shut case. If she does reconnect, hopefully I'll be in a better place then and can then adjust back to a normal friendship with her. Or maybe tell her the truth at that point and ask to respect her BF's wishes.

[esteem-jam]

What if her man loves her more than it seems now? What if he has problems expressing his emotions?

In a positive outcome from your point of view ... he will come later on LS and mourn "she did this all behind my back", which would be true. He may think revenge even, later.

 

If you do send, with an idea "we can be together when youre single" ... it may sound fair, logic (if both people like each other), planned. But what if the spark is gone then? You still dont know what would it be to live with her together and wash the dishes and stuff. What if that good future would turn out a dissappointment? Yet in your letter it sounds/would sound like you know it all.

 

If you say in person... it may seem sudden to her. She knows probably you like her, but on the outside she would display that shes upset about this proposition, she would accuse you of "ruining a good thing" and that you are "imagining things", which you really are not. Your best interest is to have her, hers - she can have you any time, any place, to talk... in fact she already has you, just not the way you want, not according to your interests... which leads to... you are in disadvantage here ... she can be with someone even if it`s their disadvantage ... its not fair, its selfish.

[Teknoe]

Oh snap. She's back.

 

She needed help yesterday and since she helped me out in a similar vain, I returned the favor. Then she took me out to dinner (the one she owed me from March).

 

She apologized and said she was sick and out of touch with the world the past week. Dunno if I buy that fully but whatever. It's nice to reconnect with her.

 

I didn't confess. Didn't feel like the right thing or right timing. I think she knows already, and has known for some time now. We talked about relationships and she told me a bit more about her BF's questionable status... how he can be a jerk and brain-dead at times. We talked about soulmates and all that.

 

No physical contact. We haven't even ever hugged.

 

I think instead of confessing, I'm going to give her some time to work things out with her BF, without my mentioning it like "Hey, I dig you but you're taken. If you were single I'd date you." I'll just let it be, and see where the summer takes us.

 

Last night she was telling me her coworker was asking her about me, and how the coworker encouraged her to date me or something. She said her coworker hates her BF, and likes me more because I'm so kind and helpful. My friend said this openly and didn't seem to be embarrassed by it. I just laughed. Guess I could have confessed there, but I didn't.