Eggplant Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I accept the paternity test the same way I accept marriage as a concept. Marriage is, among many things, a public testimony of a man's promise to stay with the mother of his children and help raise the children and be a family unit. Just as people argue against paternity tests, you could argue that if the woman truly trusted 100% her man, then marriage would be superfluous. A man eager to prove his commitment, nevertheless, holds his clean hands up high before the whole world and goes through the whole deal and gets married, fully giving himself over, even when she never doubted he'd be there. And similarly, the mother should in good spirits agree to the paternity test before they even get married or pregnant, merely as a demonstration of absolute commitment to honesty and transparency. Both actions might come from this same spirit. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I accept the paternity test the same way I accept marriage as a concept. Marriage is, among many things, a public testimony of a man's promise to stay with the mother of his children and help raise the children and be a family unit. Just as people argue against paternity tests, you could argue that if the woman truly trusted 100% her man, then marriage would be superfluous. A man eager to prove his commitment, nevertheless, holds his clean hands up high before the whole world and goes through the whole deal and gets married, fully giving himself over, even when she never doubted he'd be there. And similarly, the mother should in good spirits agree to the paternity test before they even get married or pregnant, merely as a demonstration of absolute commitment to honesty and transparency. Both actions might come from this same spirit. A woman makes the same commitments and promises as a man in a marriage. And a marriage is just that: a promise. Not a medical test to check if he's been lying. A better analogy would be asking for random STI or lie detector tests, with absolutely no cause except the spouse's paranoia. Any man with this much concern should consider a vasectomy. Then you will know for sure if the paternity is not yours. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Eggplant Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I've got the idea from reading that many evolutionary biologists believe that profound differences in nurturing behavior exist between mothers and fathers and maternal relatives and paternal relatives because the father doesn't know who his offspring are with the same certainty as the mother. Maybe this genetic test could change some gender differences (over a long time). 1 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I've got the idea from reading that many evolutionary biologists believe that profound differences in nurturing behavior exist between mothers and fathers and maternal relatives and paternal relatives because the father doesn't know who his offspring are with the same certainty as the mother. Maybe this genetic test could change some gender differences (over a long time). That nurturing behavior has already changed with social expectations and opportunity, as more mothers join the workforce (even out-earning their husbands), and father take on more of the childcare responsibilities. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I probably would not ask for one and I understand why a woman would resent it but I also understand why many men would want one. This kind of subject inspires a visceral knee jerk reaction on the part of most men because it pushes some strong buttons in a man. No, I disagree. I absolutely don't think that this is the case for 'most' men. It is literally unheard of amongst ANYone I know (and I've lived in two polar opposite countries, completely different cultures, several completely different social circles) to have a paternity test done on a baby in a committed relationship! Obviously, in the case of a FWB/ONS/casual dating partner just phoning you up all of a sudden and demanding child support payments, you would be daft to not get one. So, it isn't a visceral knee jerk reaction in 'most' men. It's just a visceral knee jerk reaction in a few of you who are battling trust issues. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author USMCHokie Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 No, I disagree. I absolutely don't think that this is the case for 'most' men. It is literally unheard of amongst ANYone I know (and I've lived in two polar opposite countries, completely different cultures, several completely different social circles) to have a paternity test done on a baby in a committed relationship! Obviously, in the case of a FWB/ONS/casual dating partner just phoning you up all of a sudden and demanding child support payments, you would be daft to not get one. So, it isn't a visceral knee jerk reaction in 'most' men. It's just a visceral knee jerk reaction in a few of you who are battling trust issues. Do you think these men have been socially conditioned to just accept it as it is? Or that probable retribution from the spouse, as evidenced by the posts in this thread, makes it not worth it? Link to post Share on other sites
tbf Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Do you think these men have been socially conditioned to just accept it as it is? Or that probable retribution from the spouse, as evidenced by the posts in this thread, makes it not worth it?I flat out asked my husband if he ever considered a pat test for our two sons. He outright laughed at the idea without hesitation and said that the last person who would cheat on him was me. Now you may believe him to be conditioned and/or attempting to appeal to me but if you knew him as well as I know him, if I ask him a direct question like that, he would be completely honest about it, at any cost. This is why we trust each other. No b/s between us. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Author USMCHokie Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 This is why we trust each other. No b/s between us. I have no doubts of this. However, do you honestly feel that your relationship with your husband is how most couples feel about each other? Or could your personal experience of a truly trusting relationship color your "reality" of all relationships...? Link to post Share on other sites
tbf Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 No, I disagree. I absolutely don't think that this is the case for 'most' men. It is literally unheard of amongst ANYone I know (and I've lived in two polar opposite countries, completely different cultures, several completely different social circles) to have a paternity test done on a baby in a committed relationship! Obviously, in the case of a FWB/ONS/casual dating partner just phoning you up all of a sudden and demanding child support payments, you would be daft to not get one. So, it isn't a visceral knee jerk reaction in 'most' men. It's just a visceral knee jerk reaction in a few of you who are battling trust issues. I have no doubts of this. However, do you honestly feel that your relationship with your husband is how most couples feel about each other? Or could your personal experience of a truly trusting relationship color your "reality" of all relationships...?Let's circle back to what started this exchange, instead of going down the millionth rabbit hole. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 No, I disagree. I absolutely don't think that this is the case for 'most' men. It is literally unheard of amongst ANYone I know (and I've lived in two polar opposite countries, completely different cultures, several completely different social circles) to have a paternity test done on a baby in a committed relationship! Obviously, in the case of a FWB/ONS/casual dating partner just phoning you up all of a sudden and demanding child support payments, you would be daft to not get one. So, it isn't a visceral knee jerk reaction in 'most' men. It's just a visceral knee jerk reaction in a few of you who are battling trust issues. There are things many men won't discuss in mixed company. I don't know if I would say most but many men I know have serious trust issues. Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 There's another thread I was looking at today where a girl was encountering problems with her boyfriend who is deeply suspicious of her. Meantime, he's going to strip clubs, "grinding" on the dance floor with other girls etc etc. If somebody has actually betrayed your trust or has a history of betraying other people's trust then of course it makes sense to be cautious about them. Some people are born to betray, others go through a phase of it as a way of handling their anger about being on the receiving end of betrayal. I saw a news item recently about "revenge porn" where men post pictures of ex girlfriends on porn sites with details about them (names, social media links etc). The woman in the clip had ditched a boyfriend after he cheated on her, and so he got revenge on her by posting on this porn site. Who's the untrustworthy one in that scenario? The guy both cheated on his girlfriend and he posted intimate pictures of her on a porn site. That's an immense betrayal - but I bet you anything that that guy goes through life having "trust issues". Feeling entitled to treat others in a suspicious, mistrustful and vengeful way because he presumes they are bad people just like himself. People who are untrustworthy themselves are often the least trusting of others. They project all those traits, behaviours, agendas and motives that make them untrustworthy onto everybody else. I'm not saying that about everybody who has trust issues. Good people get betrayed and find it hard to heal - but they'll generally want very badly to heal. The ones who regard suspicion and mistrust as the default position from which they should always operate are, I think, more likely to be people who are themselves habitual liars, cheats, thieves and so on. It's like Sickboy in Trainspotting - expressing surprise that Renton didn't make off with the money while he was at the bar, because "I know I would." 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 It's like Sickboy in Trainspotting - expressing surprise that Renton didn't make off with the money while he was at the bar, because "I know I would." I'm sure one day you will post something I don't like 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I can't stand hypocrites like those guys and I would never post a woman's pictures, videos or whatever online no matter what. People like that are sleazy. The worst thing I ever did to a woman that betrayed me was making a point to show much my life improved without her. I do however have sympathy for good and honest people of both genders who have trouble trusting after being hurt. and I think that they should have help instead of condemnation. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author USMCHokie Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 Let's circle back to what started this exchange, instead of going down the millionth rabbit hole. Got it. But just because it doesn't happen with "most" people doesn't mean it never happens. I don't assert that it's common; 4% is not common. But for those who share my particular life situation, it probably happens at a higher percentage than it does others. I was just curious to see what the general LS populace thought about the idea. Clearly it's not so popular. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 There are things many men won't discuss in mixed company. Perhaps this is the reason. Or maybe, just maybe, your social circle is just kind of effed up, especially considering the things you say about you not knowing any other couples with a happy marriage, and how shocked you are whenever you see another couple who is truly in love, and how difficult it is to get friends who are genuinely happy for you and your wife? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author USMCHokie Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 Perhaps this is the reason. Or maybe, just maybe, your social circle is just kind of effed up, especially considering the things you say about you not knowing any other couples with a happy marriage, and how shocked you are whenever you see another couple who is truly in love, and how difficult it is to get friends who are genuinely happy for you and your wife? Not everyone is lucky enough to live a life of rainbows and butterflies... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Perhaps this is the reason. Or maybe, just maybe, your social circle is just kind of effed up, especially considering the things you say about you not knowing any other couples with a happy marriage, and how shocked you are whenever you see another couple who is truly in love, and how difficult it is to get friends who are genuinely happy for you and your wife? While Woggle has had his issues, when I read his posts I don't get the feeling that any of his experiences are in any way unusual. Men are pretty tough and hard for the most part, in my experience, they also tend to put on a facade for women. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Not everyone is lucky enough to live a life of rainbows and butterflies... There's quite a spectrum between rainbows and butterflies, and not knowing ONE SINGLE couple in a happy M, isn't there? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 While Woggle has had his issues, when I read his posts I don't get the feeling that any of his experiences are in any way unusual. Men are pretty tough and hard for the most part, in my experience, they also tend to put on a facade for women. Will have to agree to disagree on that. I haven't known too many people at all who have been abused by their mother AND had their ex wife going at them with a gun. I understand where he's coming from, but I also think his experiences have colored his view on women greatly. Hokie, on the other hand, is quite the mystery to me. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
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