Mans Perspective, Please

[Vikki]

Hi All you Lovely Guys,

 

Ok, Lets say you meet someone and are very attracted and connected to them, lets also say you can't act on that attraction (as far as getting into a relationship) because just after meeting the person here you are contacted by a past love (whom you deeply loved at the time of your relationship) but things ended because of misunderstandings and the distance (rather than anything ugly), you haven't seen this other person for about 2 years but they have expressed that they are coming to see you in a short while in the hope that things will be as they once were, so you start communicating again. You know you loved this person overseas and they you, you too are hoping things will be as they once were but you also have strong feelings for the person here.

 

Meanwhile you've gotten close to the person here, mentally and physically, this person knows where you stand with the one overseas. Would your mind stop you from showing affection, knowing that if you started doing all the things that lovers do it would only hurt the person here when all that had to end, upon the arrival of the one overseas. Is it possible that your mind stops you from being as affectionate as you ordinarily would be, your mind tries to keep a certain distance. Is it a subconcious thing? Or does your lack of affeciton show that you really don't feel as much as you think, otherwise you'd be able to show affection? Is it a mind thing or a feeling thing?

 

I guess I'm trying to find how a sensitive guy's mind works!

 

Thanks

[P]

Sorry this isn't exactly an answer. I actually don't understand the question as you've written it. A sort of 'first person, second person, third person hypothetical (but obviously real for you) problem'. I couldn't really pick up whether you are the one coming back from overseas, or the one in the not so unlucky situation of having to choose between two fellas. Maybe I need to read more carefully?

 

Peter

[Tony T]

You really know how you jerk yourself around, don't you. First of all, you make the assumption that things are going to work out with your ex from overseas. This is a very dangerous posture to take.

 

People change dramatically when you aren't around them for a period of time. People grow in different directions. Hell, people grow apart easy enough when they are in each other's proximity. But when they are geographically apart for a long period of time, what's in their mind is the way things used to be. The greatest number of times, it is NEVER the way it used to be if and when they reunite at some point.

 

You are taking a very major gamble here.

 

I sincerely hope I never come in contact with you or anyone like you in any kind of romantic way. If there were many people like you, hearts would be breaking needlessly everyday because people got calls from ex's and they wanted to see if they could gain back the past.

 

It just doesn't work that way.

 

Nevermind all these questions you ask about what your mind does, consciously or subconsciously. You have direct control over that.

 

Go ahead with this. Once you see how crappy it works out for you, please don't do it again...for the sake of mankind.

[Vikki]

Ahh Sorry,

 

I'll try again. I met a guy, there was a mutual attraction and connection. He couldn't really act on that (as in get in a relationship) cause just after meeting me he gets contacted by his past love (he deeply loved her when they were together, things ended coz of misunderstandings and the distance rather than anything ugly, in other words there's still good will between em), he hasn't seen her for about 2 years, she rings up and says that she's coming from Ireland to Australia to see him in the hope that they can get back together again, because of the history between em and love that was once there he feels he owes it to himself and to her to see what happens, even though he's got strong feelings for me too, it's a matter of timing (we'd been together for about a week when this happened, we knew we were attracted and had feelings for each other but nothing much had happened, yet!).

 

He tells me straight away after she contacts him what the deal is, so I know where he stands with her and us. He's pretty confused because of his feelings for me but he also knows that he needs to find out one way or the other with this girl from Ireland. I understand that, they've got a history, fair enough. I'd probably say the same thing.

 

Anyway we decide to just live in the moment but this attraction was pretty powerful stuff, Mon! We become intimate on many occassions, that was mostly because we were both very helpless to the attraction, logically we both knew we shouldn't be doing it but we are human, it was too hard to control. I want to make it clear here that it was a mutual thing, he didn't force himself on me in any way shape or form. I'm not gonna blame just him for us getting intimate, he tried to resist but I'm too much of a Vixen (hehehe) he's a man you know, I wanted to make love as much as he did.

 

The only thing that's been bugging me is that he's been unable to show affectin outside the bedroom. I originally thought he was lying about his feelings for me because his words weren't matching his actions, know what I mean?

 

Anyway since then the communication between them has increased. He's now put his foot down as said as much as he would like to he just can't be intimate with me anymore, it's doing his head and his heart in. I have to respect that, it sucks but I have to. The more they communicate to each other the more he feels like he's cheating on her by us sleeping together, he's told her about me and that he really cares about me. He's a very honest and caring guy, I'm not fooling myself there.

 

Anyway now that the intimacy has stopped (just recently, like last week!)and we are becoming close friends, I'm wondering if his lack of affection was about his mind of his feelings. At the time of us being physically close I questioned him about his lack of affection (outside the bedroom), it was really doing my head in. He said it was directly related to his mind, it stopped him because he knew that if he started to express everything he felt and started acting like long term lovers we both would be hurt when the pysical side had to end.

 

He HAS got a point because if he'd given himself to me on a platter it would have been much harder for me to have let that side of it go. He said his mind kept an emotional distance and that came out in not being able to be as affectionate as he ordinarily would be.

 

My question is do you guys really think it's a subconcious thing to protect or could it be about feelings, that he didn't feel as stongly for me as he said. Is it a mind thing or a feeling thing?

 

Looking for how another guy might perceive this.

 

Cheers

[Vikki]

Uh Tony,

 

I rephrased the question. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

Ummmm having said that, I agree that people do change, the reason this guy is waiting for this girl is cause he needs to know one way or the other. He wants to be free to give it a chance, it would be very difficult for him to do that if he's involved with me. He owes it to himself, don't you think? There's a lot of history between em. Surely you can understand that?!

 

He's not saying that when she gets here things will be honkey dorey, he knows there has to be something new between em, he's said he doesn't know what's gonna happen when she gets here, they could start up relating again or it could be over. He's not free in his heart to start something with me before closure with this one way or the other. He's smart enough to know that if he got involved with me NOW he'd wonder 'what if', I don't want him to be with me and think that, I only want him to be with me if he's 100% sure, he's not.

 

I have to let him go on this one. I love him dearly and I only want him to be happy, if he's happy with her and they work things out then good for them, he'll always have a special place in my heart. I'm not stoopid enough to have any hopes there, I've let it go. I hope they do have a wonderful life together, I really do. I'm getting on with my life with love, admiration and respect for him in my heart and mind.

 

Cheers

[Rogue]

I'm still not sure I understand what you're asking.I'm guessing that you're asking whether or not he's attracted to you.

 

The answer is probably not.Most guys look for excuses to be with someone they are attracted not,not look for reasons they can't be with them.He could be just plain confused,but if his attraction was real then he'd have forgotten about his ex.Really.He sounds like he doesn't know what he wants.If I would were you,I would protect myself from having my heart broken.Sorry.

[Vikki]

I'm asking you to put yourselves in his shoes. He's attracted to me, we've got a great connection. He's unable to show affection because he's got this other person to think about. It's not as black and white as he 'is either is attracted or not, it it's real he'd forget the ex' Geez, past history counts with someone you know, especially is there was a deep love there, and especially if this contact was only after a week or two of meeting me. It's not black and white!

 

The question I was posing to you guys is simply about showing your feelings, showing your affection. Wouldn't you hold back in showing all you wanted to the new person, no matter what you felt because it would hurt the new person when suddenly you couldn't be like that? you know it would have to stop sooner or later, it would make it harder to let things go if you showed all you felt, it would hurt me more if he was all over me then it just stopped, don't you think?

 

Thank YOU!

 

I'm just asking if you would put yourself in the position of being emotionally and physically attracted to someone who've just recently met. Then you are contacted by a past love whom you had a great relationship with, a deep love but were seperated only by distance, you know you want to give it another go with the old love, you WANT to have a relationship again with the old love, it's a matter of history. The question is how would you respond to the new person you were attracted and connected to as far as showing your affections?

 

Obviously you wouldn't want to hurt this new person, but the attraction is there, you know you have to keep some emotional distance, would you do that by holding back on showing affection?

[cj]

I'm asking you to put yourselves in his shoes. He's attracted to me, we've got a great connection. He's unable to show affection because he's got this other person to think about. It's not as black and white as he 'is either is attracted or not, it it's real he'd forget the ex' Geez, past history counts with someone you know, especially is there was a deep love there, and especially if this contact was only after a week or two of meeting me. It's not black and white! The question I was posing to you guys is simply about showing your feelings, showing your affection. Wouldn't you hold back in showing all you wanted to the new person, no matter what you felt because it would hurt the new person when suddenly you couldn't be like that? you know it would have to stop sooner or later, it would make it harder to let things go if you showed all you felt, it would hurt me more if he was all over me then it just stopped, don't you think? Thank YOU! I'm just asking if you would put yourself in the position of being emotionally and physically attracted to someone who've just recently met. Then you are contacted by a past love whom you had a great relationship with, a deep love but were seperated only by distance, you know you want to give it another go with the old love, you WANT to have a relationship again with the old love, it's a matter of history. The question is how would you respond to the new person you were attracted and connected to as far as showing your affections? Obviously you wouldn't want to hurt this new person, but the attraction is there, you know you have to keep some emotional distance, would you do that by holding back on showing affection?

if i was in the shoes i would enjoy my time with the new person all that i can an dshow all that is to be offerd in the package maybe just maybe this person is all that i wanted and all that i'll ever could have for the time being

 

and talk and make it clear to the new person that you must give me the best she have to offer and she steels my heart

 

when the old love returns i will tell her i found some one

 

new and i am going give her a chance

 

thats if the new person can give and offer me better if not i am going back to my old love

 

then i will say sorry your best was not good enough

 

no matter if i hurt her she must understand

 

i hope i understood your question

 

buy love -;_;.....cj

[Vikki]

Thanks for your response CJ,

 

Ummmm it's not a competition here you know! I don't want to compete with her for him, nor does he want me to feel like that, hence keeping a check on his show of feelings, concsiously or unconsciously. There's no way I would ever compete. I have self respect you know, I'm not throwing myself at someone who knows what they need to do, what would that accomplish? He's said he's waiting - fair enough. I accept his position and decision. They've got history, I have an attraction and connection of a few weeks (before she contacted him). If he said to me 'look this is the situation, give me your best shot, try and steel my heart, I'm comparing you' I would have said f..k right off!

 

We are talking about a person who felt he'll hurt me and himself (not to mention really confuse himself), we are talking about a person who feels that now the communication has picked up with the old love he's cheating on her by continuing to be intimate with me, by continuing anything romantic with me, he's got integrity.

 

What you guys seem to be missing here is that he had a history with her, a good one, he has no history with me, he feels pretty certain things will work out with the old flame, I hope they do, I only want him to be happy!!

 

ANYWAY that's NOT my question, I have accepted all of the above, I'm looking after my heart, he's looking after his. My queston was this: as a way of keeping some emotional distance would you hold back on the affection and SHOWING of feelings knowing that it would hurt both of us MORE if there was a great show of affection and then it was gone???

 

Cheers!

[Rogue]

I STILL don't understand the question.Would I not show my feelings because I'm afraid of hurting myself and someone I care about???? Is that the question?

 

The truth is,if a single man refuses to show his feelings to a single woman,then there's obviously a lack of attraction regardless of whether or not an ex exist.If a single man REALLY cared,he would simply forget about his ex (whom he hasn't seen in two years?) and be with the new woman.The ONLY reason someone not married would hold back from taking a relationship further is that he has serious doubts. Yes,personal history is a factor,but it's been two years not two weeks.

 

People ALWAYS make the time and effort for things important to them. It makes no sense to "hold back" from a relationship that you think is important-unless of course you don't really believe in the relationship itself. It's not unusual for people to keep love interest in "storage" till they find out how things work out with their main love.Check around some of these Loveshack post and you'll see my point.

 

It's the classic case of a cheating husband telling his mistress "I can't get a divorce right now,you know.There's the kids to worry about,it's not a good time...maybe later". There's ALWAYS some excuse to why a divorce can't happen,meanwhile they are still seeing each other!! Single men use a different approach.They sometimes say things like "I can't start a relationship right now,I'm just getting over my ex.It's a stressful time for me,with work and all.Maybe later.....".Yet the whole time ,they're still sleeping with the girl, at the same time trying to win their ex back!!! Do you see what I'm trying to tell you?? If a single man is REALLY interested,he'll show a lot more commitment.He wouldn't hold back for some two year old ex relationship he'd sooner forget about anyways.

[Dragonflys]

Vikki

 

Lemme have a go, I'm an Aussie too.

 

Men do not have the capability to love two women at once. They do however have the capabilty to show affection for as many as they have time for.

 

Flirting, being charming, being cuddly, being sexual, masculine etc. is nothing to do with emotions, its separate and is simply a decision of the logical mind led by attraction to the opposite sex.

 

Sometimes though (as my be in your case), the attraction can be so strong it could feel like love, being so overwhelming. But it is not...look at your reaction, you are willing to let him go and wish him the best within one week of realising you are losing him. This would not happen if you were in love..you would feel anger, hurt, confusion...more illogical feelings.

 

Now in his case, he has feelings of love for this person from Ireland. Emotionally, he is messed up. Now when a man gets emotional the logical mind goes...and his attraction to you is affected and the will to show affection, and be intimate is lost...it gets drowned in the much more powerful love emotions.

 

See the cute thing about love is, it may not feel at any one moment as intense as the intial sexual 'spark', but believe me it is a much more powerful monster. Its a bit like putting a filly up against a Clydesdale.

 

As I see it, you can do absolutely nothing, and I think you have wisely realised this - good on you. You would also agree with me that he is not bad for feeling this way. Just step back and let him resolve this mess himself, he only can do it. If he does offer to come back to you, I am certain what you will have will be much stronger than what you had before.

 

I hope this helps...

 

You can email me at <e-mail address removed> if you like.

 

Oliver

[Vikki]

Hiya Rogue and Oliver :-)

 

Thanks to you both for your responses, really I appreciate them. Sorry this question has been difficult/confusing.

 

Rogue: Again I'll say that it's NOT black and white. Matters of the heart rarely are, not all men are the same. Remember Rogue, time is only a measurement, it means very little as far as emotions like these go. Your emotional brain is very old. Think back to someone you deeply loved, imagine if that love had only been put to the side by a stoopid thing called distance rather than anything bad, surely if they were in your face now your emotions would be the same? Sorry to ask you this but do you always assume the worst of your own kind? Thank you for your insight and time though.

 

Oliver: For you to say that men DO NOT have the capability to love two women at once but they DO have the capability to show affection for as many as they have time for, only adds to giving guys a bad rapp, it only adds to pigeon holing ALL males into the stereotype that males fall into the charm, f**k, feel nothing and leave category. It only adds to women believing that men CAN'T be emotional, that MEN can't be just as vulnerable to their emotions as women.

 

Not all men are the same I'm afraid, I aint going for that one, especially in this case. Not all men are capable of expressing their affections "for as many as they have time for". To some men affection IS an expression of love and only that. We are talking about degrees of love here, he cared, he was attracted, we had a connection, I've answered my own question. The real love in his heart was in Ireland, he held back his affections because he didn't love to the degree he did her. I loved to a greater degree so I expressed, he didn't so he couldn't. That doesn't make him a bad guy, in fact it makes him a very honest guy (which I knew).

 

I WASN'T willing to let him go within one week. He got contacted by Irish within a week of us feeling the attraction and connection. I've only now been able to let him go emotionally, 2 months later and after going through hell and back together. I did feel anger, hurt, confusion, doubt, I accused him of lying, I accused him of a lot of things. This WAS based on emotions, you don't go through what we did and still be here for each other - as friends of the closest kind without feelings on both sides, he felt enough to help me deal with this, he felt enough to be there through thick and thin. He could have easily NOT told me about Irish, if he didn't feel, if he didn't care, he could have had a good time for now till she got here then dumped me, he could have easily told me to piss off a long time ago when I spat the dummy.

 

I agree with you on this: "now when a man gets emotional the logical mind goes...and his attraction to you is affected and the will to show affection, and

 

be intimate is lost...it gets drowned in the much

 

more powerful love emotions"

 

That's the truth here and one that I can clearly see. He loved/loves this girl dearly. We didn't know each other long enough for his feelings to develop into anything substantial before Irish called. It's not that he didn't feel, it's not that he didn't care, it just wasn't to the degree that he does/did for her. She's his priority, she's his love, she's the one he thinks about.

 

Anyway thanks people, you've cleared that one up in my mind.

 

:-))) Vikki Mwaaahhh!

[Rogue]

Oh please.(Rolls his eyes).You've got to be kidding??? Never mind. You seem to think that a man's words (or a woman's words for that matter) are to be taken over their actions.What has he said and what has he done? Men (and women) show themselves by their actions,not their words or their "emotions". Words are just cheap feelings that can't mean much - unless backed up by a person's actions.TO say you love someone then turn around and go to someone else is pretty conflicting.

 

Wanna know the truth,Vikki? A lot of those nice guys/girls are the worst heartbreakers around.The jerks are predictable at least,but the nice guys who flap about not knowing what they want end up hurting more people than the jerks. People actually fall for their "feelings" believing there's something there..when there isn't.You may not believe me now,but go through the wringer with one of these types for a while and you'll see what I mean.

 

I will say this one last time: People take the time and effort to safeguard what is valuable to them. Nobody parks their Ferrari unlocked. Nobody leaves their Mastercard on a park bench. And nobody will risk a great girl slip through his hands because of his "past"--unless she's really not so great to him.

[sparkle]

Vikki,

 

So far the guys have responded...well I'm a female and I understand where you're coming from and what you're saying.

 

BUT I must say that I agree 100% with what Rogue said.

 

Please don't be offended by anything I say or take it the wrong way. But you're asking a question and expecting to hear the answer that YOU want to hear, not what's true. This is not your fault. You love this guy and care very much for this guy. So naturally you might only see the good in him and be blinded by his negative qualities. He's not perfect. He makes mistakes. So I think this causes you to shut out everything that you would not like to hear, for example, Rogue's replies. Instead, you're hoping that someone will write what you want to hear.

 

About this guy and the chick having a history..and therefore it makes it okay for him to do what he's doing?!??!.....that's a bunch of B.S. Whether he dated her for 5 weeks or 5 years DOES NOT make a difference. SHE WAS HISTORY. OVER AND DONE WITH.

 

But he must not completely have written the relationship off, he KNEW in his mind that they might try to make things work out in the future. If so, he's a JERK for starting a relationship with you and for leading you on...yes he did lead you on, even though he knew there was a chance he might get back together with her. Now I know you may say, well he wasn't planning on getting back with her. But if this were true then he would have written her off and gotten her out of his mind, and started a relationship with you, and NEVER gotten back with her if he was talking to you.

 

This guy sounds like a jerk who uses his charm and his sweet talk to convince you that's he's such a wonderful guy and that he's confused..etc etc. But she's far away and he needs to meet his sexual needs so he's been turning to you.

 

If this guy cared about you and respected you, he would have not tried to rekindle his relationship with this other girl. PERIOD. No IF's, AND's or BUT's about it. No, some things have more than 2 sides, they aren't black/white. But THIS ISN'T ONE OF THOSE THINGS. It's as black and white as it can get. If he wanted to be with you, he would not have thought about hooking up with this girl, no matter how long his history was with her.

 

Rogue made a very good point about the fact that you're listening to his words, not his actions. Doing so is a veryyyyy big mistake. He could say he loved you..he cared about you..he doesn't want to hurt you..etc etc...thousands and thousands of times. But it doesn't mean that he means it. His ACTIONS must show this, not his words.

 

If he meant this stuff:

 

Action: he would not give this other girl the time of day, this would not be an issue. he would be with you.

 

If he didn't mean it:

 

Action: he's going back to this girl.

 

I know this isn't the advice you're looking for. But I have nothing to gain or lose by telling you any of this. Neither does Rogue or cj or Oliver or anyone else. We're an impartial jury. But it's your choice to hear what you want to hear.

 

Take care, and good luck with this situation. Personally, I would write him off and forget about him. And I'd find a guy that was single or wasn't trying to hook back up with his ex. There are lots and lots of them out there. I heard Australia especially has quite a few hot ones.

[Vikki]

Hi to all,

 

No, I'm not offended by ANYTHING anyone's said, at all! This is my last post on this stoopid subject.

 

But I'm wondering if anyone's actually HEARD anything I've said: "I want to make it clear here that it was a mutual thing, he didn't force himself on me in any way shape or form. I'm not gonna blame just him for us getting intimate, he tried to resist but I'm too much of a Vixen (hehehe) he's a man you know, I wanted to make love as much as he did"

 

"I originally thought he was lying about his feelings for me because his words weren't matching his actions, know what I mean?" I'm old enough and wise enough to have pulled him up by the balls many, many times re his lack of showing affection and what exactly it meant (Rogue!)

 

"The real love in his heart was in Ireland, he held back his affections because he didn't love to the degree he did her. I loved to a greater degree so I expressed, he didn't so he couldn't"

 

"That's the truth here and one that I can clearly see. He loved/loves this girl dearly. We didn't know each other long enough for his feelings to develop into anything substantial before Irish called. It's not that he didn't feel, it's not that he didn't care, it just wasn't to the degree that he does/did for her. She's his priority, she's his love, she's the one he thinks about"

 

Having realised all that and reading everyone's responses, you all believe that he didn't give a s**t in any way shape or form, that his intention from the start was to get the sex, right. I THOUGHT that myself AND expressed it to him - and much more, many, many times!

 

He knows he went about this ass up, as in getting physical, the other thing that I haven't mentioned here is ME in all this, I should have, sorry, you tend to overlook yourself in things like this and only focus on what the other person is doing and saying, maybe that will make some difference.

 

I started getting clingy - I don't know whether his lack of affection started that or if it's because I'm going through a whole bunch of other big, big dramas in my life, so emotionally I wasn't exactly 100% secure in myself when the intimacy started, I thought I could handle a 'for now relationship', I obviously couldn't. I'm to blame in this too you know. It wasn't all one sided. He realised he was in the s**t after awhile because I'd become rather attached, he knew how vulnerable I was emotionally, he didn't dare risk showing me even more emotions (affection) because he could see that if he went down that road then had to stop he'd really hurt me, he kept that emotional distance because if I didn't have it then I couldn't get attached to that as well.

 

He knew it was a mistake in starting anything physical, he said that straight away, he knows he made mistakes, he's dearly sorry for them. He adamant this was just about sex, I've accused him so many times of that, he's dammed if he'll ever say that because it's just not true. He said if he really believed that that's all I wanted to hear he would have told me ages ago so I could've let this go.

 

Anyway guys there's always two sides to every story, I'm not sure if I'm trying to justify his actions here, again, he knows he lead me on, but he says that's mostly because cared and wanted to protect me emotionally. I kicked his ass for that by saying he had no right to take responsibility for my feelings away from me, that's a pattern he's got, he tries and protects people - usually causing himself more grief and no advatange to the other person. He knows his mistakes, he's admitted them, he's deeply sorry for them. It takes two to tango, two to make things great and two to make things absolute s**t! If I'm still trying to justify his actions here (or mine), then DO tell me. I guess I've been so stubborn about this because I know how my reactions may have influenced his and vica versa.

 

Cheers.

 

LAST POST ON THIS, PROMISE!!!!!!!!

[Vikki]

This line:

 

"He's adamant this was just about sex"

 

Should read this:

 

He's adamant this was *NOT* just about sex.

 

That was a silly word to miss out eh???

[Dragonflys]

Vicki

 

Geez, now you have me confused.

 

What I said about men not being able to love more than one person at a time is true..it is true. In your case it is impossible he could have felt love for you within a week, no way, and I don't believe you loved him within a week either..you may think you did, but didn't.

 

AND its not a bad rap for guys to in addition say they can be affectionate, charming, etc. for as many women they have time for..it does not imply anything. It is merely a capabilty..the ACTION is a matter of choice and you can typecast your men based on that...

 

The one who expresses love with affection is in love, so if you go back to the first paragraph you will see he can't do the same to another

 

Oliver

[Vikki]

Hon, I never said he loved me within a week, nor I him! Where did you get that from??? Again what I said in regards to 'a week' was that he was contacted by the ex WITHIN a week of us feeling the attraction and connection, that's all I said that was 'felt' at the start.