What logical conclusion would you come to?

[ScreamingTrees]

I've gone through spurts of positive thinking, followed by a much longer period of going through the motions and coming off as "confident" in my physical demeanor while harboring a pessimistic outlook that I hesitate to share with anyone other than those closest to me..

 

There are minor situations here and there over the years that leaves me thinking.. Wtf... Say, I was at a friend's house, there were maybe a dozen of us all hanging out.. I was sitting at his computer with another two friends and we were just bull****ting around with it, so one of them goes on a public video chat and starts talking to this girl.. I'm not even paying attention, I'm sitting there but looking away from the computer screen at my other friends doing whatever it was they were doing..

 

So, apparently my friend was typing "my friend thinks you're cute" to her.. He was talking about the OTHER kid sitting with us, and she immediately says "not the guy with the <blank>" and the <blank> was describing me.. <blank> was not something negative, but it described me in some way, it was undeniable that she was talking about me. I just made an exaggerated sarcastic pouting face and gave her the finger and she laughed, I guess because I *was* half joking, or must've seemed like it anyway.. Whatever, nasty bitch..

 

It's easy to say nasty, hurtful things like that and even laugh about it via camera when you're hiding behind a screen, anyway, when you're not nearly as aggressive or vocal in the realm of physical reality.. Just as easy as it is for me to post negative thoughts when in reality I'm not really that intense, definitely more just laid back and calm and peaceful and easy to talk to but unassuming and non-intrusive unless I need to be for whatever reason. Basically, totally harmless and forgettable, I guess. But still far from a push over.

 

Let's say you'd had maybe ONE or two moments of genuine, sincere "positive" reinforcement over the years. A girl showing SOME degree of genuine, unmistakeable interest in wanting to be a part of your life and it didn't work out due to other reasons than incompatibility, or simply being physically attracted to you in the moment and physically showing it.

 

So if you have had a non-existent dating/romantic life, and maybe a very sheltered/linear social life, with a couple of negative experiences like this sprinkled over the years, ranging from the blatantly obvious to the minor and subtle, almost miss-able.. And maybe ONE or two moments of genuine, sincerely "positive" reinforcement over the years.. As in, a girl showing SOME degree of genuinely unmistakenable interest in wanting to be a part of your life, regardless of whether or not that worked out.. Even simply showing that they were physically attracted to you in the moment..

 

What logical conclusion would you come to? That while you may be more than happy with who you are, most others may not find you nearly as desirable, unless they have no other choices or are living a life of severely limiting circumstances?

 

Regardless of your original self image, esteem... Whatever you want to call the general idea.. What would it become? Would it go from a positive outlook to a negative one? Would it remain positive in the hopes that merely having a positive outlook will make you physically attractive enough for someone at some point in the future, since it surely really only takes THE "one" person to "fall in love" for the rest of your life and all of that other wacky fairy tale bull****? Or perhaps it will make you JUST BARELY attractive enough to the point where someone who is tired and ready to "settle" can stomach your presence enough to feign some sort of "attraction"?

[tbf]

As a consideration, people can sound insulting when they're teasing someone they find attractive, particularly when younger.

[pteromom]

Regardless of your original self image, esteem... Whatever you want to call the general idea.. What would it become? Would it go from a positive outlook to a negative one? Would it remain positive in the hopes that merely having a positive outlook will make you physically attractive enough for someone at some point in the future, since it surely really only takes THE "one" person to "fall in love" for the rest of your life and all of that other wacky fairy tale bull****? Or perhaps it will make you JUST BARELY attractive enough to the point where someone who is tired and ready to "settle" can stomach your presence enough to feign some sort of "attraction"?

 

For ME, it wouldn't change my outlook. Other people are entitled to their opinions, and my opinion is just as valid as theirs. So I choose to have a positive opinion about myself.

 

I am not someone guys notice. I've had my share of partners, but I was never the "pretty friend" in a group. I've had guys over the years say some mean or negative things about my appearance. I've never been able to land the super-hottie guys.

 

But you know what? I think I am pretty cool. I'm cute. I'm perky and happy. I've got nice skin and cool hair. And a big smile. And that's enough for me.

 

This girl who said this to you... she sounds immature. And maybe she already had her eye on your other friend so she was reinforcing that she wasn't attracted to you. Who knows. But even if she thinks you are hideously ugly, that doesn't make it so. It's just HER opinion. Even if 80% of women think you are ugly, there's always the other 20%.

 

It isn't about someone settling for you, or stomaching your presence. It's that everyone has different attributes they find attractive.

 

And mainly that a huge part of attraction is how a person feels about him/herself in the presence of the other person. If a girl feels beautiful and accepted and funny and free with a guy, that feeling is hard to walk away from, even if the guy isn't traditionally attractive.

 

Not that you aren't attractive, of course.

[KathyM]

People will vary on how they perceive their lack of success with women. Some may think they just haven't found the right person yet, and hope to in the future. Some may think their romantic life is doomed and throw in the towel all together. The level of optimism varies among men. Your best course of action is to learn to find joy and fulfillment in many areas of your life, so that you have a well balanced life. Work on your deficits, and continue to be friendly to people. I know guys who don't really have a lot going for them lookswise or in other capacities, but they still managed to generate interest from women and got a girlfriend because they continued to approach women and put themselves out there. There will always be someone who tries to put you down, or is not attracted for whatever reason. You can't let that define who you are or reduce your interest in people. It might be helpful for you to list the qualities about you that are positive, and post that on your bathroom mirror or whatever, and then get to work on the things that you could develop. And continue to be friendly and talk to women. Some will be receptive, but you have to be willing to face rejection because just about every man experiences rejection from time to time. Be conscious of and appreciate what you have going for you, work on the things that need improving where you can, and be willing to put yourself out there and sometimes face rejection. It's part of life.

[USMCHokie]

I think you're going to have a tough time getting a logical answer to this one, because people tend not to be able to dissassociate emotion, an often irrational thing, from relationships.

 

That being said, logically speaking, if you find that you are not desired by others, then you are probably to desirable. I would argue that on the face of it, when meeting you for the first time, people don't really care how you feel about yourself. Logically speaking, I think to attract women, what matters is what they think about you.

 

What matters is that you demonstrate behaviors that simply reflect how highly you think of yourself. It's why "fake it til you make it" actually works. You "fake" confidence by demonstrating behaviors associated with confident men. By displaying this image, women will form their judgment of and possibly attraction for you. You can truly believe you are the most pathetic creature on this planet, but as long as you show otherwise through your behaviors, women will not care.

 

That being said, I think that logically speaking, what you think about yourself matters a lot less than what she thinks about you when it comes to initial attraction. As long as you cater your behavior to what she finds attractive, (i.e., confident) you will win.

[ScreamingTrees]

Hell, I think I've actually just had an epiphany.. I'm actually starting to think that things aren't nearly as bad as they seem. There are starving children in third world countries that would be happy just to have a place to sleep, something to eat.. Why am I so caught up on trivial bull****? I mean, I'm sure that the right girl WILL come around at some point in the future.

 

I'm sure there's someone out there who will accept me for who I am, who won't care that I'm technically a virgin or that I have no experience or knowledge of having been in an actual inter-personal relationship. Or that I'm not much of a party animal and would rather focus on hobbies.

 

Hell, I might as well post a photo of myself, you can all form your own personal private conclusions based on your own highly individual, subjective perceptions. I think you're all right, I think it's all just in my head.

 

And maybe some of my self-loathing colleagues could actually take something away from this and realize that maybe, just MAYBE it's all in our heads.. Maybe the problem really is how we carry ourselves, or perhaps it's how we speak.. It could be many things, but honestly, I doubt that our physical appearance plays a major part in it. It seems women really don't care that much as long as you're nice. Guys, we've just got to search deep inside of ourselves to consider what exactly the issue REALLY is.. I mean, we may think it's a big crooked nose, but.. What we NEED to do is figure out what the issue RRREEAAALLLYY is.. Know'm'sayn?

 

 

I swear to every man-made god in existence, I'm going to turn over a new leaf, starting today! I'm going to go out and make some friends for a change. And I'm SURE that once the girls see me waltzing by with my bad boy swagger, they'll feel compelled to give me a knowing wink, to talk for a bit to see what I'm all about.. Then I've got 'em. That's all it takes, really. I know I'm a prize, I just need to be more assertive, I need to take risks. If the girls aren't coming to me, I obviously need to start going to them.. A lack of signs of interest is not a lack of interest. Ladies, beware! Here I come!

 

http://i39.tinypic.com/mj90zb.jpg

[KathyM]

What kind of response were you looking for? That men who are Average Joes or not even that are hopeless to find love because no one will want them? Not true. There are plenty of men out there who are not attractive, but are dating. That's not to say that it won't be more difficult for you, but it's not the roadblock to dating that you are making it out to be. Most things physical can be improved upon. If you are overweight, then lose the weight. If you have a seriously deformed nose, then fix it. You can either feel sorry for yourself, or you can work on yourself, and make the most of what you've got. But if you're going to have an attitude that no one will ever want you, then you can be sure that no one will ever want you. Your choice how you adapt to the limitations you have.

[pteromom]

I started reading your post thinking you were serious. If you re-read everything you wrote WITHOUT the sarcasm, then it is all true.

 

Well, except for this: "And I'm SURE that once the girls see me waltzing by with my bad boy swagger, they'll feel compelled to give me a knowing wink, to talk for a bit to see what I'm all about.. Then I've got 'em. That's all it takes, really"

 

It isn't about being a bad boy or having swagger. I already gave you the answer... it's about how a girl feels about HERSELF around you. If you are flipping girls off and scowling at them, then yeah, nobody is going to want to date you even if you are good looking.

 

And of course looks matter. I don't think anyone is saying looks don't matter. Of course they do. But it isn't ALL physical appearance. And I know for a fact that YOUR problem specifically isn't your physical appearance.

[ScreamingTrees]

You can either feel sorry for yourself, or you can work on yourself, and make the most of what you've got. But if you're going to have an attitude that no one will ever want you, then you can be sure that no one will ever want you. Your choice how you adapt to the limitations you have.

 

Your last line conflicts with what you'd said.. If my "attitude" I currently have is not the result of my "adapting" to my limitations, then what do you suppose I do to "make the most of" what I've got? I'm not overweight. I already exercise, so I'm basically doing the majority of what I possibly can do. I bathe and practice good hygiene.. I wear clothes that are clean and look alright together..

[ScreamingTrees]

I started reading your post thinking you were serious. If you re-read everything you wrote WITHOUT the sarcasm, then it is all true.

 

Well, except for this: "And I'm SURE that once the girls see me waltzing by with my bad boy swagger, they'll feel compelled to give me a knowing wink, to talk for a bit to see what I'm all about.. Then I've got 'em. That's all it takes, really"

 

It isn't about being a bad boy or having swagger. I already gave you the answer... it's about how a girl feels about HERSELF around you. If you are flipping girls off and scowling at them, then yeah, nobody is going to want to date you even if you are good looking.

 

And of course looks matter. I don't think anyone is saying looks don't matter. Of course they do. But it isn't ALL physical appearance. And I know for a fact that YOUR problem specifically isn't your physical appearance.

 

I don't really believe in "bad boys".. And to me, swagger's just a lame ass way of saying someone has style.

 

Ehh, auntie Terry (I'm claiming you as my aunt now, you're no different than any other relatives blowing sunshine up my ass), ya even bother to read what had happened? I didn't even do anything to this person, and still they went out of their way to insult me. They could've just asked the kid talking to them if he was talking about the kid sitting next to me instead of saying "oh good god, nooooo! hope it's not that guy! kill it with fire!!11"

 

It's just lame, y'know? When there's rarely a female that actually seems to take you seriously.. Whatever

[pteromom]

I don't really believe in "bad boys".. And to me, swagger's just a lame ass way of saying someone has style.

 

Ehh, auntie Terry (I'm claiming you as my aunt now, you're no different than any other relatives blowing sunshine up my ass), ya even bother to read what had happened? I didn't even do anything to this person, and still they went out of their way to insult me. They could've just asked the kid talking to them if he was talking about the kid sitting next to me instead of saying "oh good god, nooooo! hope it's not that guy! kill it with fire!!11"

 

It's just lame, y'know? When there's rarely a female that actually seems to take you seriously.. Whatever

 

Sigh. I am not blowing sunshine up your ass. I have been trying to help you. Yeah, I read what happened, and to me, she just sounded like an immature person.

 

It would be interesting to see that exchange myself, to see if I get a "kill it with fire!" vibe or if you are just seeing it that way because you assume all girls feel that way about you.

 

~~Auntie Terry

(Ha)

[ScreamingTrees]

Sigh. I am not blowing sunshine up your ass. I have been trying to help you. Yeah, I read what happened, and to me, she just sounded like an immature person.

 

It would be interesting to see that exchange myself, to see if I get a "kill it with fire!" vibe or if you are just seeing it that way because you assume all girls feel that way about you.

 

~~Auntie Terry

(Ha)

 

Maybe. I've considered that. Either way, regardless of her true intentions, she was unnecessarily rude and immature towards someone who wasn't even paying her any mind..

 

Out of the three of us that were in her line of sight, she basically wanted me to get out of the way to talk to my two friends and made it clear despite the fact that I wasn't paying attention to them and she could've ignored me. She was just being mean because she could.

 

Because, hell, anyone can get away with being a dick on the internet, it's the internet.. Exactly why you can watch goofy videos on youtube done all in good hearted fun and scroll down to see pointless comments like "kill yourself f**got!", "this was terrible!", "fat ass", "you look like a lanky alien pr**k! suicide plz", "attention whore!" etc..

[DollWelch]

What logical conclusion would you come to? That while you may be more than happy with who you are, most others may not find you nearly as desirable, unless they have no other choices or are living a life of severely limiting circumstances?

What is the issue OP? I don't quite follow. The reason why I say this is because you just simply described 5.9999 billion people on this lovely planet of ours. Those thousand(s) or so that you may not have addressed probably do not fall in this category. The category being: having had a blissful life full of engaging and wonderful experiences, a loving group of friends and a high school sweetheart or soulmate as a wife.

 

But does it matter? WHY do you care? Here is something to think about. Have you seen a Disney movie in your lifetime? What do you notice about almost every storyline? The handsome prince wins the princess, and they live happily ever after. Right? Yes. Now, name me one real life scenario where that is the case? Unlikely. Why? Because people are not perfect; they are not what they seem. People are flawed and the universe is not as magically as it is in the movies.

 

Bottom line is, people marry under false pretences, arranged or otherwise -but at the end of the day, they make it work. You have to be able to be content with who you are and be open to the idea that no matter what happens, you will be okay.

 

A face invites, a beautiful soul captivates!

[ScreamingTrees]

A face invites, a beautiful soul captivates!

 

Well.. guess I'm screwed.

[pteromom]

She was just being mean because she could.

 

Because, hell, anyone can get away with being a dick on the internet, it's the internet.. Exactly why you can watch goofy videos on youtube done all in good hearted fun and scroll down to see pointless comments like "kill yourself f**got!", "this was terrible!", "fat ass", "you look like a lanky alien pr**k! suicide plz", "attention whore!" etc..

 

That's true. But you gotta distance yourself from those kinds of people. Someone who has the need to call another person names has major issues him/herself. I said before (it might even be in this thread) that if someone is giving you negative attention, it is usually because they are seeing their own fear, weakness, or insecurity reflected in you. Putting you down is a way to feel they are lifting themselves up.

 

But YOU have the power to internalize their effed-up opinions or to reject them. Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's, so why not make it positive?

 

I saw Tony Robbins on TV the other day, and I always thought he was a corny infomercial guy, but he's actually very smart. Here's a video from him about changing what you focus on and changing what things mean in order to change your life.... very good.

 

Tony Robbins Reveals Greatest Secret Ever - YouTube

[DollWelch]

Well.. guess I'm screwed.

If that is you in your profile picture, you might have a chance. Unless you like being screwed (pun intended? ), otherwise you are on your own.

[KathyM]

Your last line conflicts with what you'd said.. If my "attitude" I currently have is not the result of my "adapting" to my limitations, then what do you suppose I do to "make the most of" what I've got? I'm not overweight. I already exercise, so I'm basically doing the majority of what I possibly can do. I bathe and practice good hygiene.. I wear clothes that are clean and look alright together..

I don't think I've said anything conflicting. You are Maladapting to what you perceive as your limitations if you are developing an attitude that no one will want you. To make the most of what you've got, you play to your strengths and work on improving your deficits. I don't know what your deficits are, since I don't know what you look like, how you come across to people, or what you need to work on. If you'd like to post a picture and describe yourself, or even post a link that would give us a glimpse of your personality and style, I would give you some suggestions on what you might work on. Otherwise, you may want to ask for advice from someone who knows you and can be trusted to give an honest evaluation. I'm trying to get you to realize that just because a few women might not be interested, or just because you have some things that may need to be worked on, doesn't mean that your dating life is doomed. If you make the most of what you've got, improve upon whatever deficits are holding you back that can be worked on, and put yourself out there to meet people, most people can find success in the dating world. So can you. I know a man who is probably a 3 on a scale of 1-10, has a poorly paying job, no education past high school, and not much of a personality. He's married to a beautiful young woman. And do you know why? He has a LOT of confidence, and was confident enough to approach her and ask her out. I know another guy, overweight, probably a 3 on the scale. He has a long term relationship with a beautiful woman because he has a very charming and personable personality. I know a guy that is maybe a 5, kind of skinny nerdy type, short, with glasses, but has an amazing personality. He is married to a woman who most would consider to be a 10 who is an amazing woman. The difference with these men is that they have confidence, and they did not let their limitations to hold them back, and they continued to pursue until they found someone who appreciated what they had going for them.

[hppr]

I know exactly what you mean, the situation you laid out was basically how dating was for me when I got out of the military and ended up pretty much back where I started. Go out to bars/clubs with buddies and the girls would be like "...oh no not THAT one". Gee thanks!

 

If your current place in the world is anything like mine was it's probably:

 

Your friends are dragging you down. Good male friends hook up their buddies with girls and don't put up with some girl talking down a friend of theirs. Bros before hoes. More than likely they either don't respect you or simply don't have a lot of energy for anyone or anything so they just 'get theirs' and you are a fly on the wall.

 

You talk about how you have a pretty boring life. Gotta change that one if you want to attract decent women otherwise you'll be the guy they start looking for when they want a guy that won't 'run away' sort of thing.

 

New job might help too. More money, better clothes, better place to live. This helps with the boring life too, since if/when you do something that you enjoy for a living (rather than hate or otherwise don't care about) you have more energy and that is attractive to people.

[hppr]

That's true. But you gotta distance yourself from those kinds of people. Someone who has the need to call another person names has major issues him/herself.

 

Exactly! And if your friends end up hanging out with those chicks behind your back or whatever...what does that say about them and their view of you? The best way I can describe it is that it's childish behavior put forth by people who don't have a lot going for them.

 

If you are around adults who are doing that, and your guy friends are putting up with women like that, get new friends.

[violetsareviolet]

What logical conclusion would you come to? That while you may be more than happy with who you are, most others may not find you nearly as desirable, unless they have no other choices or are living a life of severely limiting circumstances?

 

well, my friend...I've done a lot of soul searching and attempts for self-improvement for the past 4-5 months (maybe longer, who knows ), and found myself to be mostly alone at this point in my life. It's really true (albeit cliché)...you really need to lose everything in order to see everything clearly. Yes, it can be scary at times...but oh, so worth it.

 

I am 30 years old, recently graduated from design school, and embarking on getting my new business off the ground. No romance in my life to speak of, but I couldn't be happier. I have managed to rid myself of all toxic 'friendships' or acqaintences from my life; in order to have a healthy life, you really need to keep these kind of people at arm's length.

 

You need to focus on yourself, to be the greatest person you know you can be...be passionate! EVERYONE is attracted to a passionate individual...Michael Jordan had fans around the world because he loved basketball so much, and it showed...Bob Marley (rest his kind soul) still has millions of fans, both young and old. There are so many more examples. Passion is timeless.

 

I've found that at the end of the day, you can't worry about impressing other people and getting other people to enjoy your company. It can work to a certain extent, but exhausting...and at the end of the day, you are not 100% your genuine self. When you are who you really are, the new friendships will come...healthy relationships will flourish! Since the day I decided to be more proactive in being a better person, I've met some great new people and am excited to see where the friendships will go in the future. Waking up every day also makes me more excited about who I am going to meet and interact with...it's really what life is all about.

 

If you aren't attracting the kind of people you want to be around, I have some suggestions for you that could help:

 

a) get back in touch with some old hobbies or sports you used to absolutely love in your younger days... when you are most happy, your body will eminate positive energy outward, others will sense it and respond favorably

b) donate some of your time to helping others less fortunate...perhaps you already do, if so, good on you! if not, it doesn't make you a bad person, but it will make you feel better about yourself...even a little bit. and in the game of attracting others to you, every little bit helps

c) make a conscious effort to say hello or converse with strangers...it will attract others to want to come talk to you because it shows how open and comforting you can be with other people

d) change up your life! get back into those hobbies I mentioned earlier, walk or ride your bike a different route to work/school/home etc. you might meet some cool strangers on your new routes!

e) get into nature! humans belong in nature, and our connection with urban landscapes of asphalt and skyscrapers really have negative impacts on the human spirit and energy

f) join some sort of new activity group or sports organization...surround yourself with other people who share your same interests!

g) smile! youre alive another day, and smiles always brighten up a room

h) don't become a slave to money...your life will dramatically improve when you can align your passions with your work...that way, you'll never work a day in your life, but instead just getting even more awesome at your passion!

 

hope this could be useful

 

cheers

[violetsareviolet]

 

I saw Tony Robbins on TV the other day, and I always thought he was a corny infomercial guy, but he's actually very smart. Here's a video from him about changing what you focus on and changing what things mean in order to change your life.... very good.

 

Tony Robbins Reveals Greatest Secret Ever - YouTube

 

I too once thought that Robbins was just another infomercial squid, but I've listened to quite a few excerpts from some of his audio books/seminars and he is really captivating and inspiring

 

from a janitor to world-wide inspirationalist (is that a word? no. lol). awesome dude!

 

thanks for the link

[ScreamingTrees]

Simply don't have a lot of energy for anyone or anything so they just 'get theirs' and you are a fly on the wall.

 

You talk about how you have a pretty boring life. Gotta change that one if you want to attract decent women otherwise you'll be the guy they start looking for when they want a guy that won't 'run away' sort of thing.

 

The first line that I kept in this quote describes my single current close friend to a tee.. Which is why I only selectively hang out with the kid.. Everyone around me just tells me to use him when I'm bored the same way he'll use me when he's got nothing better to do.. I've sort of blown off a lot of my other friends who have went out of their way to call for me time and time again due to not feeling like doing anything, and that's my own fault, really.

 

But I'd rather be alone the majority of the time than hang out with someone like the guy I'm describing. I do go out with 'em sometimes, though. Last time we ended up going to a friends house and I met some cute girls and we all drank and it was fun, even if it didn't mean anything, I was just happy to be out and with people my age just hanging out and laughing..

 

I certainly don't believe that I'm a boring or mundane person, but I am living a mind-numbing life at the moment due to the issues that I'm trying to resolve now. The future is looking bright, though. At least, brighter than it did.