Chemical cause of introversion

[ChessPieceFace]

I am an extreme introvert and after a lot of pondering, I truly believe it is rooted in brain chemicals. I can cite at least 2 blatant pieces of evidence:

 

My casual friend (who is also a hardcore introvert who has few friends and never had a romantic relationship) becomes a totally different person when taking Prozac. He hangs out with a larger and totally different social circle. When not on it, he rarely goes out and is hugely introverted and socially avoidant.

 

In my case I avoid any kinds of medication, but I've noticed times when I experience a different mental state. One happens occasionally when I wake up on only 4 or 5 hours of sleep (I would say after completing 2 or almost 2 sleep cycles) - I feel much more talkative and friendly, although I also have a very short fuse and can get angry very easily. It makes me wonder if the chemical imbalance causing (at least my) introversion is related to sleep cycles beyond the first 2. Sleeping for the usual 8-9 hours (3 sleep cycles) is my usual introverted state; sleeping even longer causes headaches, grogginess and a general feeling of being out of it, and having a very narrow mental focus.

 

I have sometimes also "broken out" of my introversion after an intense social experience - giving a big speech, for example, causing a rush afterward and a feeling like I can be social much more easily. Again, I feel that this is more than just attitude, but is a real rush of chemicals in the brain.

 

Anyone have any thoughts or insights? Any corroboration with anything you've learned?

[Emilia]

Anyone have any thoughts or insights? Any corroboration with anything you've learned?

I always guessed that my introversion was a result of being a child of two introverts.

[dreamingoftigers]

I would say it is a combination of inherited and (personal) historical factors.

 

Most of our life-context provides us with some kind of neural reward. I am curious if being extroverted brings you a sense of anxiety or shame OR if you simply don't feel a "craving" or "urge" to be more outgoing.

 

OP, is it something that you wish to alter?

[skydiveaddict]

I am an extreme introvert and after a lot of pondering, I truly believe it is rooted in brain chemicals. I can cite at least 2 blatant pieces of evidence:

 

So why live with it? Go see your doc and if meds can help you why not do it? If you can be helped by medication but you still refuse to act on it, then that's on you. But you should at least find out.

[ChessPieceFace]

dot - you seem to imply that it's a choice. Having an introverted nature is NOT a choice. How much to fight against it is a choice. I would once again bring up the analogy with someone who is morbidly obese. They are obese primarily because their body stores calories rather than burning them at the rate that a normal metabolism would burn them. Technically they COULD be thin, if they fight very hard every day of their lives against the nature of their metabolism. But most people will never understand how hard that fight is, will dismiss them as "lazy pigs that sit around eating bonbons all day" and while they may not have perfect diets, they probably have more normal diets than most people believe. And with the constant storing of fat by their body and the difficulty of constantly struggling against it, may very well have given up trying and resigned themselves to their fate.

 

I would never want to force myself to be an extrovert. I'd never want to be the life of a party, or do ridiculously outgoing things. However I would want to aim more towards normalcy, while still enjoying the introverted hobbies I enjoy. That's another discussion; I just wanted to talk about the chemical aspect of it and if anyone had either medical info or personal experiences corroborating my observations.

 

I forgot another important aspect of it. I often think about why I fail with women and it comes down to a single, really big factor. Not confidence, weight, looks, attitude... those things are certainly factors but not the big one. It's simply talking (a lack thereof.) I don't like to talk, especially in person, and I don't like to show emotions. That I "dislike" it isn't an accurate description; I would say that I physically do not have the mental / physical energy to sustain normal conversation and normal social interaction. It feels like constantly having to push uphill and draw upon reserves of energy I'm depleting, just to engage in a conversation of more than a few words.

 

It's not that I don't like to communicate, since I DO like to type; I could type paragraphs on any subject on a forum like this. That's one reason that most of the few girls that have been really into me I have met online (and subsequently lost all interest when meeting me in person.) I can be outgoing when it's my fingers hitting keys and I'm sitting in a nice quiet room. I've even been able to handle long phone conversations back in my youth, but only occasionally. But in person? Forget it.

 

I've been "stoic" since before I knew what the word even meant - a doctor giving me a shot when I was probably 5 or 6 commented on how "stoic" I was. It could definitely be a form of autism (isn't that also associated with over-sensitivity to external stimuli?)

 

I basically get far more annoyed than most people at anything coming into my brain that I don't want coming in there, with sounds and smells being the worst. Several times in dorm living I almost got physically violent with neighbors with prolonged music on, when my other roommates weren't that bothered by it. This extends to other factors as well, such as social situations. Social situations mean unknown and unexpected stimuli, much of it sound, which I hate. When I communicate verbally I generally condense it into as few words as possible. It's almost physically painful to have to talk for long periods.

 

If I trusted the criminals in the medical industry I'd probably have a lot of treatment options; (un)fortunately I don't. I should probably do more research into autism, maybe there are ways to deal with it that don't involve experimental drugs that will damage my mind for life.

[robaday]

How old are you? Do you prefer your own company, or are you restricted to it through being shy in meeting new people?

 

I was extremely when I was a kid. Parents worried about me cause I wasnt like the other kids. I put it down to me being the oldest, getting all the attention as a baby, then my father leaving and my two sisters being born - they naturally formed a bond with my mother, whereas I drifted further and further away from the family into my own introversion - eventually what started as social anxiety turned into craving and prefering my own space.

 

In terms of chemicals. Like other shy kids, I took drugs, not just to get over my shyness but also to experience new things. I drank a lot too. Have friends who are incredibly outgoing almost hyper normally, but when they take uppers - i.e. cocaine, speed etc, they become quiet and almost sedated. When they smoke pot (the opposite) they become hyper......

 

Introversion is often confused with shyness, or lack of social skills. It doesnt mean that, it means that you get energy from being on your own. Whereas, extroverts get energy from being around people. Im reading abook right now actually which might really interest you - "gifts differing" by Briggs and myers, who developed jungs theories to assess personality types - its a real eye opener and explains why you are the way you are

[Emilia]

I quite like the introverted side of my personality, it means I benefit from a degree of insularity and able to cope being without company for longer periods of time, fail to see how that's a bad thing.

 

That said, I think it's important that you are a social introvert, ie go out to socialise and meet people rather than allow yourself to fall into the routine of being cooked up in your house too much.

[ChessPieceFace]

How old are you?

 

37.

 

Do you prefer your own company

 

By far. I even work at home. Many days I see only my lone roommate 1 or 2 brief times and not another human being. That's a bit extreme even for me and quickly leads to depression though, if it goes on day after day.

 

or are you restricted to it through being shy in meeting new people?

 

I do have a fear of meeting new people, but the introversion (autism?) I have is always present, even among close friends that I trust and have known for years. Every time I talk it's like I have to push through the negative reaction in my mind to the sound that will be coming out of my mouth, among other aspects of conversing.

 

In terms of chemicals. Like other shy kids, I took drugs, not just to get over my shyness but also to experience new things.

 

I don't use drugs or drink. I was talking about chemicals inside the brain.

 

Introversion ... means that you get energy from being on your own. Whereas, extroverts get energy from being around people.

 

Yes, I know that explanation of it, but it's really just another unspecific label to what's happening IMO. The "energy" introverts lose by being in extrovert situations is, I postulate, a depletion of brain chemicals which they are naturally low on to begin with.

[Emilia]

I do have a fear of meeting new people, but the introversion (autism?) I have is always present, even among close friends that I trust and have known for years. Every time I talk it's like I have to push through the negative reaction in my mind to the sound that will be coming out of my mouth, among other aspects of conversing.

You equate introversion with autism?

 

Sounds like you haven't been socialising enough. It's a skill that takes practice.

[ChessPieceFace]

You equate introversion with autism?

 

Sounds like you haven't been socialising enough. It's a skill that takes practice.

 

Next are you going to tell all the people with autism that all they need to do is socialize? Oh, and cripples just need to learn how to walk better?

 

I just read the symptoms of Aspergers again and I have almost all of them except clumsiness. Although I don't see a mention of feeling physically sapped of energy when trying to socialize, so that alone is not a complete picture (it's called an autism spectrum for a reason.) I never even heard of Aspergers before my 30's and never even thought it could apply to me until the last few years. I probably could have gotten a lot more help and insights if anyone in my life had known about it.

 

My nature is to avoid ever wearing a label like that to avoid hiding behind it or admitting there's something inherently wrong with me that may be stronger than I am, but the facts seem too pronounced to ignore. Not sure how to address it. The apes churning out brain drugs do so for profit, and care not one ounce whether people are helped; on the contrary, they would prefer people live a long, expensive and drug-dependent life. I'd have to do intense research into any drug before I take one, especially a drug which could permanently screw up my brain.

[Emilia]

Next are you going to tell all the people with autism that all they need to do is socialize? Oh, and cripples just need to learn how to walk better?

Um being introverted is just a personality trait, it's not an illness

I just read the symptoms of Aspergers again and I have almost all of them except clumsiness. Although I don't see a mention of feeling physically sapped of energy when trying to socialize, so that alone is not a complete picture (it's called an autism spectrum for a reason.) I never even heard of Aspergers before my 30's and never even thought it could apply to me until the last few years. I probably could have gotten a lot more help and insights if anyone in my life had known about it.

 

My nature is to avoid ever wearing a label like that to avoid hiding behind it or admitting there's something inherently wrong with me that may be stronger than I am, but the facts seem too pronounced to ignore. Not sure how to address it. The apes churning out brain drugs do so for profit, and care not one ounce whether people are helped; on the contrary, they would prefer people live a long, expensive and drug-dependent life. I'd have to do intense research into any drug before I take one, especially a drug which could permanently screw up my brain.

Probably get professional help? Or feel sorry for yourself I guess.

[dreamingoftigers]

dot - you seem to imply that it's a choice. Having an introverted nature is NOT a choice.

 

I think that you read something that I didn't write.

 

My goal is to get into Neuroscience Research. I happen to believe that our behaviour and personality boils down to only two things:

 

1. Our neural function

2. Our history

 

Essentially the "hardware" and "software" of our minds.

 

I also wholeheartedly agree that it very well could be a result of 1, 2 or a combination of both.

 

And that our life-context tends to set us up to work in a certain "groove" as it were. No value-judgment or anything. My scores on the Myers Briggs actually split pretty much even for I and E. If not completely even (can't remember, just remember that it's as balanced as it could be). I find myself very introspective and not inclined to seek out social opportunities whatsoever. Even nervous of them. But when they do occur, I have no issue in the moment of even public speaking upon instant request. In fact, I am comfortable with it. It's .... odd.

 

I was curious if you were sharing more to educate, simply to share or if you were wanting it changed/weren't happy about it. Curiousity.

 

How much to fight against it is a choice. I would once again bring up the analogy with someone who is morbidly obese. They are obese primarily because their body stores calories rather than burning them at the rate that a normal metabolism would burn them. Technically they COULD be thin, if they fight very hard every day of their lives against the nature of their metabolism. But most people will never understand how hard that fight is, will dismiss them as "lazy pigs that sit around eating bonbons all day" and while they may not have perfect diets, they probably have more normal diets than most people believe. And with the constant storing of fat by their body and the difficulty of constantly struggling against it, may very well have given up trying and resigned themselves to their fate.

 

Ironically enough I am morbidly obese. Very apt analogy. Surprisingly so. It is rather uncomfortable that regardless of my activity level (even when I was hiking a rather consistent 4 times a week and taking my daughter in a stroller all over the place: I lost not an ounce. NOT ONE. I do lose tons of weight but ONLY when no dairy, refined sugar or refined flour passes my lips AT ALL. My family has strong native heritage going back to a small area in Ontario. Both my parents have it. I have been to that community and the obesity is off of the charts, amazingly so. My ancestors must have had a very pure diet. Either that, or they rolled faster than they could walk.

 

I will be going off of sugar (again, sigh) with the hope of remaining off of it this time. I am very hooked on sugar. Sugar dependency also runs in families with alcoholism. I was aware of the alcoholism (both sides of the family, rampant, including my father) so I did not take up drinking. But the sugar has been nothing but a bane to my existence.

 

I would never want to force myself to be an extrovert. I'd never want to be the life of a party, or do ridiculously outgoing things. However I would want to aim more towards normalcy, while still enjoying the introverted hobbies I enjoy. That's another discussion; I just wanted to talk about the chemical aspect of it and if anyone had either medical info or personal experiences corroborating my observations.

 

I forgot another important aspect of it. I often think about why I fail with women and it comes down to a single, really big factor. Not confidence, weight, looks, attitude... those things are certainly factors but not the big one. It's simply talking (a lack thereof.) I don't like to talk, especially in person, and I don't like to show emotions[/b]. That I "dislike" it isn't an accurate description; I would say that I physically do not have the mental / physical energy to sustain normal conversation and normal social interaction. It feels like constantly having to push uphill and draw upon reserves of energy I'm depleting, just to engage in a conversation of more than a few words.

 

It's not that I don't like to communicate, since I DO like to type; I could type paragraphs on any subject on a forum like this. That's one reason that most of the few girls that have been really into me I have met online (and subsequently lost all interest when meeting me in person.) I can be outgoing when it's my fingers hitting keys and I'm sitting in a nice quiet room. I've even been able to handle long phone conversations back in my youth, but only occasionally. But in person? Forget it.

 

I can definitely see how that would be a block in today's society. But not uncommon. It is very hard to portray interest without, well, portraying it.

 

But perhaps even the written voice might help with that with women?

There is something quite extra-special receiving a thought-out note or email of some kind as opposed to the regular douchebag hitting on you. Not to say that it needs to be a mushy love poem or such histrionic thing. Clearly you can write well though, and express yourself articulately. If in-person speech isn't your thing, working around it with the written may seem mildly uncomfortable at first, but possibly more comfortable than the in-person workup that is an uphill battle.

 

I've been "stoic" since before I knew what the word even meant - a doctor giving me a shot when I was probably 5 or 6 commented on how "stoic" I was. It could definitely be a form of autism (isn't that also associated with over-sensitivity to external stimuli?)

 

My brother and sister are both autistic. Their autistic tendencies expressed themselves in different ways. Stoic did not describe either one of them. However autism is spectral. My brother was hearing hyper-sensitive, but touch under-sensitive. My sister had a hearing loss but she is also a savant in the areas of memory and spatial relations. TheWholigan may be a good resource to ask.

 

But to be honest, quiet men have existed for centuries. It is only in the last two generations that men have been expected to be more empathetic and expressive. Historically women turned to other women in their communities for that.

 

I basically get far more annoyed than most people at anything coming into my brain that I don't want coming in there, with sounds and smells being the worst. Several times in dorm living I almost got physically violent with neighbors with prolonged music on, when my other roommates weren't that bothered by it. This extends to other factors as well, such as social situations. Social situations mean unknown and unexpected stimuli, much of it sound, which I hate. When I communicate verbally I generally condense it into as few words as possible. It's almost physically painful to have to talk for long periods.

 

If I trusted the criminals in the medical industry I'd probably have a lot of treatment options; (un)fortunately I don't. I should probably do more research into autism, maybe there are ways to deal with it that don't involve experimental drugs that will damage my mind for life.

 

Interesting.

 

I don't trust them either and my brother has the permanent brain damage to underline that for me.

 

One place I do trust that helped my father immensely was the Amen Brain Clinic. I think it's 1500 ish for a scan (not an impossible sum but a bit of an ouch). I am saving up for our whole family to go. I think it is the best investment my father made in himself (why he didn't take my brother instead, I'll never figure out).

 

[dreamingoftigers]

My nature is to avoid ever wearing a label like that to avoid hiding behind it or admitting there's something inherently wrong with me that may be stronger than I am, but the facts seem too pronounced to ignore. Not sure how to address it.

 

Often people confuse "label" with "inadequacy" or "excuse."

 

Labels are often neutral things, like labelling spices. It becomes what you make with it.

[robaday]

Well as your not used to social interaction, or at least not exposed to it much, its natural you would expend more energy engaging in it. This might not be a good comparison at all, but Im currently learning a foreign language and I find it immensely difficult simply due to the amount of concentration I have to expend to get even the most simple words into my brain - almost as it were building new muscles. Its not that Im incapable of learning, its just so foreign, and not what Im used to, that it requires way more energy than say it would a ten year old child who is less constrained by a life of habit and instinct and socialisation. When your young, your "open" to new experiences, as you become older your habits become ingrained and harder to break.

 

Learning a language is similar to learning a new sport - body building, your almost breaking the muscles to build new ones....same with social interaction, your challenging your preconceptions about the world and your place in it. Truth is most people are too worried about their own shxxxt to notice whether your voice is out of turn, your walk is strange or your clothes look weird.

[violetsareviolet]

hey there

 

I think it's one thing to be introverted and one thing to be a loner...and I can see your point about linking it to a chemical cause in the brain. I don't believe these traits are genetically driven either...but instead, choices. I've known both loners and introverts who turn their life around and become more socially interactive and more available. the introverts ultimately still very much enjoy their alone, personal time...but in balance, also enjoy their small circle of friends they have created. it's definitely a healthy balance.

 

IMO there is nothing wrong with being introverted...I am introverted to a good degree. I enjoy my own company and prefer it to hanging out with a group...I've also noticed that the groupies only do so because they lack the courage to be happy with themselves and who they are as a person. I have a handful of friends, and we enjoy each others' company but honestly, I'm just too busy with my work and hobbies to be concerned with social demands of parties and going out drinking with the gang.

 

lonerism is something I see as completely different...at least in my opinion, loners have a very negative outlook on just about everything. they will acquire an aggressive bias towards just about everything that differs from what they do in their lives...this is not healthy imo. they are the pessimist, and no one likes this.

 

 

IMO, no one should not resort to drugs just to gain the urge to be more social. drugs only mask underlying issues that only that person can solve (and is obviously refusing to do so)

 

back to the idea of brain chemicals controlling introversion...I most certainly believe this and could ramble for hours. I know for a FACT that diet and exercise play a huge role in how your brain functions and responds with your body. if you are nature deprived, are not getting proper exercise, not drinking enough water and are eating too many dead foods (anything processed, fast food, bought in a wrapper/package etc). anyhoo, the point is your diet and exercise can directly contribute to how much serotonin and other chemicals are produced in your brain.

 

if you are interested, research about the calcification of our pineal gland in the brain. very interesting stuff

[GravityMan]

I am an extreme introvert and after a lot of pondering, I truly believe it is rooted in brain chemicals. I can cite at least 2 blatant pieces of evidence:

 

My casual friend (who is also a hardcore introvert who has few friends and never had a romantic relationship) becomes a totally different person when taking Prozac. He hangs out with a larger and totally different social circle. When not on it, he rarely goes out and is hugely introverted and socially avoidant.

 

In my case I avoid any kinds of medication, but I've noticed times when I experience a different mental state. One happens occasionally when I wake up on only 4 or 5 hours of sleep (I would say after completing 2 or almost 2 sleep cycles) - I feel much more talkative and friendly, although I also have a very short fuse and can get angry very easily. It makes me wonder if the chemical imbalance causing (at least my) introversion is related to sleep cycles beyond the first 2. Sleeping for the usual 8-9 hours (3 sleep cycles) is my usual introverted state; sleeping even longer causes headaches, grogginess and a general feeling of being out of it, and having a very narrow mental focus.

 

I have sometimes also "broken out" of my introversion after an intense social experience - giving a big speech, for example, causing a rush afterward and a feeling like I can be social much more easily. Again, I feel that this is more than just attitude, but is a real rush of chemicals in the brain.

 

Anyone have any thoughts or insights? Any corroboration with anything you've learned?

 

Your friend may be introverted, but the bolded makes me think that he has issues with social anxiety. Introversion is fine...many introverts are just fine socially, have good social skills and have no problem being around others. No meds needed. They're just not the "big crowd", "life of the party" types.

 

Social anxiety is completely different, and it's a problem.

 

Where one lies on the intro/extroversion scale may be partially dependent on one's genetic makeup (how he's wired). But I think a much bigger influence is the person's upbringing and environment during childhood and adolescence...at home, school and elsewhere. For instance, does introversion run in the family. Does a typical day in the house consist mainly of the occupants keeping to themselves...watching TV, reading books etc, or is there a lot of social interaction, laughs, relaxation, fun, quality time spent together at the dinner table, fun time spent together away from home at the park or baseball game or whatever.

[SpiralOut]

I recommend reading "Quiet: the power of introverts in a world that can't stop talking" by Susan Cain.

 

As an introvert, I'll agree with you that drugs can affect introversion/extraversion. I am much more extraverted when drinking since it lowers inhibitions. It's all about the amount of stimulation that we can take without feeling overloaded by it. I don't remember if the book I recommend talks about this, but when I took a neuroscience class I remember learning that introverts literally think differently. Introverts and extraverts use different pathways in the brain while interpreting information, and that's why we react differently to outside stimuli.

[Els]

It's undeniable that chemicals, or more specifically, neurotransmitter/hormonal cascades in humans, affect the psyche to a great degree. Introversion would be just one example of such.

 

I'm not sure I'm a huge fan of trying to find a 'cause' of introversion, though, probably because I don't see it as a 'defect' or 'disorder'. I understand that society is all about extroversion, but there is no harm in introversion, so long as it isn't extreme to the point of being unhealthy or hindering one's life. FWIW, everything else is also harmful in extremes, including extroversion.

[Maleficent]

First of all, there is a big difference between being introverted and social anxiety. A lot of people forget that.

 

An introvert typically needs alone time and it is during this alone time that an introvert re-energizes. An introvert would most likely be exhausted after a big night out with a lot of people (wedding, party, live show etc). However, it does not mean they are scared and avoiding these situations.

 

What you are describing is most likely social phobia or social anxiety. Could also be symptoms of depression.

 

What the prozac did is help with the social anxieties/depression symptoms.

[The Introvert]

I am an big extreme introvert JUST AS I'M KNOWN HERE.I speak little with human beings though I really want to speak much but I talk a lot with my brother who will be out all day.I think I have grown into this state because of the way I have been brought up in a dysfunctional family (I am an outlaw) facing inexplicable difficulties, like for instance, I could not invite friends home cause at times I was homeless.

 

I have never been on a date and I have no idea what it's like.See, I at times accept it as it is though it pains me when I think I am not normal like other guys of my age (20).I have realised that it's getting out of hand cause I have grown to be very comfortable alone than otherwise, to appear sociable I say things without giving them much thought and they will be mostly lies.

 

Yes, through and through it all I have come to terms with that as part of me.I have learnt to be happy alone in the boundaries of normalcy and maybe one day I will become better socially with time once I make breakthrough financially.I love LS case that's where I to be extrovert!