Debate with my husband

[Mycatsnuggles]

If you agree with your husband that's great but what if you don't? My h likes my hair light I like it dark. I have lightened it to please him but always go back dark because it looks better on me. I have been told the same by several people dark brings out my eyes.

 

Ultimately ou have do to what makes YOU happy. I like firm abs in a man can he get that for me? Lol

[miss_jaclynrae]

When I wake up in the morning, my husband has no problem with how I look, no. Cutting my hair isn't the issue, the issue is me making an effort to please him with my appearance, just as he does for me. He dresses very nicely for me, because he likes to look good for me, and I don't think it would be very nice of me to repay him by saying "stuff you, I don't care if you like how I look or not". Marriage is about give and take.

 

I felt that he was being reasonable. And I felt the need to please him by not cutting my hair again for a long time. Sorry if that's not what you were expecting me to feel deep deep down. Some women like to please their husbands or boyfriends. It's a shame that there's a trend in certain parts of the world for women to think they can look less than their best and then complain when their husbands don't find them as attractive. I personally see it as a sign of disrespect and disregard to take someone for granted like that. It's like they don't even care, it's all me me me, and that's not right.

 

 

 

 

 

What the heck are you talking about?

You know what is amazing that I hope you get to experience?

I (as a "westerner") can not look my best and my boyfriend still finds me attractive, gorgeous even!

[Roweena]

If you agree with your husband that's great but what if you don't? My h likes my hair light I like it dark. I have lightened it to please him but always go back dark because it looks better on me. I have been told the same by several people dark brings out my eyes.

 

Ultimately ou have do to what makes YOU happy. I like firm abs in a man can he get that for me? Lol

 

Women are very selfish these days. They put their sole needs and preferences before that of their partner, or the partnership in general. Of course I have preferences. I think my hair looks quite nice as it is, but he doesn't like it that much. He prefers it long. I respect his opinion and that's why I will grow it again. What makes me happy includes making him happy. Sometimes you have to make compromises, which is why if I happened to disagree, I would say so and we'd work something out. That's what people who care about each other do.

 

If he is willing to make the effort to please me with the way he looks, which is what he always does, then so am I. I'll do my hair how he prefers it, and I'll dress the way he likes me to dress. No man, or woman is an island, and so what makes me happy must include what pleases him, just as what makes him happy is pleasing me.

 

I notice that I'm getting a lot of criticism for wanting to please him, and yet no one is saying the same about him. He does way more in terms of looking good for me than I do for him. But I'm a woman, right? I'm supposed to be "independent". There's a lot of hypocrisy there. Women want the world these days but they expect to have it handed to them on a plate for nothing. That's not what a marriage or partnership is about. And that's where your logic is all wrong.

 

Why has no one here mentioned that I have a husband who is bending over backwards to please me, both in terms of contributing to the household, doing loads of things for me, and looking good for me too? Why is it that no one is telling him to stop acting like an oppressed / controlled man, yet I'm being criticised merely for wanting to do one little thing for him? All he has done is mentioned to me in a very nice way that attraction is important to maintain in a marriage.

 

It's because I'm a woman, and some people don't like to see a woman actually do something for the man that she's with.

[miss_jaclynrae]

Women are very selfish these days. They put their sole needs and preferences before that of their partner, or the partnership in general. Of course I have preferences. I think my hair looks quite nice as it is, but he doesn't like it that much. He prefers it long. I respect his opinion and that's why I will grow it again. What makes me happy includes making him happy. Sometimes you have to make compromises, which is why if I happened to disagree, I would say so and we'd work something out. That's what people who care about each other do.

 

If he is willing to make the effort to please me with the way he looks, which is what he always does, then so am I. I'll do my hair how he prefers it, and I'll dress the way he likes me to dress. No man, or woman is an island, and so what makes me happy must include what pleases him, just as what makes him happy is pleasing me.

 

I notice that I'm getting a lot of criticism for wanting to please him, and yet no one is saying the same about him. He does way more in terms of looking good for me than I do for him. But I'm a woman, right? I'm supposed to be "independent". There's a lot of hypocrisy there. Women want the world these days but they expect to have it handed to them on a plate for nothing. That's not what a marriage or partnership is about. And that's where your logic is all wrong.

 

Why has no one here mentioned that I have a husband who is bending over backwards to please me, both in terms of contributing to the household, doing loads of things for me, and looking good for me too? Why is it that no one is telling him to stop acting like an oppressed / controlled man, yet I'm being criticised merely for wanting to do one little thing for him? All he has done is mentioned to me in a very nice way that attraction is important to maintain in a marriage.

 

It's because I'm a woman, and some people don't like to see a woman actually do something for the man that she's with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Funny, it wouldn't have been a debate if you agreed with him.

There is a difference between compromising and feeling forced to do something. You came here with it as a debate, meaning you didn't agree, then when people voiced their opinions you changed it from disagreeing to agreeing with him.

You are the one who made yourself sound oppressed, not us. You could have a man who does everything for you and still be oppressed.

 

 

 

I love doing things to make my man happy, but the beautiful thing is that he would never treat me in such a way that your man does to begin with when it comes to a stupid haircut.

 

 

I don't see a single person saying "don't do thing for your man"

Edited June 7, 2013 by miss_jaclynrae

[miss_jaclynrae]

Not to mention that your husband said looks is number one and femininity is number two.

 

 

 

 

 

Good Lord woman, you are one lucky lady.

You wouldn't catch me DEAD with a man who thought that.

My best assets are ones that have to do with my intelligence and personality. You know, traits that last far longer than my looks will.

[2sunny]

Not to mention that your husband said looks is number one and femininity is number two.

 

 

 

 

 

Good Lord woman, you are one lucky lady.

You wouldn't catch me DEAD with a man who thought that.

My best assets are ones that have to do with my intelligence and personality. You know, traits that last far longer than my looks will.

 

My looks is what people SEE... And that's what they will see when I'm dead!

 

What they will miss (the ones that love and honor me) is that I'm authentic, giving, intuitive, smart, fun and funny. Looks would never replace who I am!

 

 

What's perfect is you two are evenly matched - so why the debate?

[HokeyReligions]

Its not what he said but how he saidi. Or maybe the way you wrote it is more telling about how you feel about it. We can't tell his tone or know the context of what was going on when he said it.

 

Looks are what attracts.us to each other first but second comes shared beliefs lifestyles goals etc.

 

My husband has always said my happiness with myself comes first. But he has also noted that he doesn't want to see me go grey. I think because it makes him feel old. My answer whenever I see him staring at my roots is to tell him to pick a color next time he's at the store.

 

I recently cut off about 20 inches of my hair. Its still well past my shoulders but a big change for me. Hubby is fine as long as its still red!

 

He shaved his moustache a couple years ago and I mentioned I missed it once and then I noticed he was growing it back.

 

I didn't see him without his moustache until after wed been married 5 or 6 years and when I saw it I jokingly exclaimed " OMG! You have a goober lip! If I'd seen that before I wouldn't have married you!"

 

Today is our 27th anniversary and he asked me if I would marry him again and renew our vows in church and if i would like to have a real wedding next year since that will be 30 years since we met. (We had a small wedding and reception before - in fact I worked a half day on our wedding day!

[Mycatsnuggles]

Then I guess I am selfish for wanting to like the way I look as is he for not having the perfect abs I want. H may prefer and I do listen to his comments but ultimately my looks are my choice. With age you learn to stand up for yourself and not give in all the time. Yes hair is a little thing. But if it represents given up more then you wish too - it's time to draw the line..

[strongnrelaxed]

So what's a woman's value when she's old or sick? Handicapped or disfigured?

 

My ex wife used to get angry with me when I got sick. Slamming doors, starting arguments, keeping me awake. It was a bizarre experience and one of the final straws that broke our marriage.

 

In the end we can only depend on ourselves. Men are finding out more and more how ugly it is to be at the mercy of a woman when he is sick or disabled.

 

This has been a lie from the beginning of time. Get sick and your partner takes care of you. Right? Wrong.

 

Get sick. Go ahead. Get really sick and watch what happens. There are some good women out there, but those who claim it the loudest are sometimes the one's to watch out for.

[strongnrelaxed]

You are talking with a Turkish woman. I grew up with that whole value system wrapped in looks culture. It's roots are in misogyny....

snip

 

Most of what you have said is eloquent and reasonable. I would like to encourage you to avoid using the word "misogyny" It is thrown around too easily. Like racism and anti-semitism, they are words with very deep meaning and historical roots. When people use them incorrectly, the younger generation can begin to dismiss these words and there will be a backlash. There are other websites that demonstrate this well.

 

Not everything is misogyny. Let's combat inequality together and avoid using such an offensive term unless it is really warranted.

[Janesays]

I'm confused how you two are having an "ongoing debate" when it's obvious that you agree with each other. Are you sure you're just not here to bait us?

 

Hate to break it to you, but no one cares about your silly shallow little marriage. Go lick his feet if if makes you happy. No skin off of my nose.

[imadognut]

I'm confused how you two are having an "ongoing debate" when it's obvious that you agree with each other. Are you sure you're just not here to bait us?

 

This is what I have been wondering since about the beginning of this thread. I haven't seen her as having a problem that she is asking for help with??????????

 

And it sure doesn't sound like a "debate" since she totally agrees with her husband who for sure seems to see women as less than equals.

[2sunny]

To have the basis of you - and what's important about you = looks ... Is just a waste of living.

 

To be that superficial is just awful.

[Pillow]

I don't even think Roweena is the wife. I am pretty sure he's a guy, a young one too. Go grow up.

[Lillyfree]

Years ago I went out with a guy who at first dressed very well, and made a lot of effort. But not long after we got together, he definitely let himself go. Eventually it contributed to us breaking up. There were other factors too, but I did not appreciate the fact that he didn't see the need to maintain his way of dressing. The things that attracted me to him in the first place, and made me interested in him and curious to get to know his personality, were gone. I can only imagine how much more of a difference that would make to a man. Men are more visual than women. Looks do matter.

 

My husband is a fabulous dresser. I rarely see him looking anything less than his best. I'm very attracted to him, and I appreciate the effort that he goes to. He even wears stuff that he says is not quite his style but he knows that I like it, so he is prepared to make that compromise.

 

So to say that he is controlling or misogynist just because he expects me to make the same effort, is simply ridiculous.

 

It's not just about what the individual wants. When you're with someone, you have to give and take. Let's be honest, when women dress up, it's not to please themselves, it's to get attention from men. That's what we really mean when we say that we do it for ourselves. The truth is that we like being looked at, so in actual fact it's for our self esteem. My husband is asking me to grow my hair because it pleases him, and pleasing him pleases me. All wives and girlfriends should consider it a priority to please the other person.

 

Attraction is what initially brings people together, and when either party doesn't make an effort, it creates a bad impression and it makes the other person feel like they're not worth pleasing anymore.

 

People generally make an effort to look smart when going to a job interview. I consider my marriage and the happiness of my husband to be infinitely more important in my life than a job interview, because jobs can come and go, but a spouse is supposed to be for life. You have to work at it, you have to maintain the spark as much as it's possible to do so.

 

 

i won't get into whether he's a misogynist or not, or whether you're shallow. you both seem to have it sorted out, and marriages are as diverse as people.

 

i don't see reasons for debate - you and your husband have same views.

 

the only advice i can offer is a protein rich diet, and get a hair/nail supplement.

[Roweena]

You are talking with a Turkish woman. I grew up with that whole value system wrapped in looks culture. It's roots are in misogyny.

 

It's NORMAL to want to seek an attractive partner (its a sign of good genetics and health, important for reproduction and THAT is why people couple in the first place). But we are NOT merely sexual beings. We are intellectual beings too, in fact the vast majority of human life is NOT about sex, our first quarter and last quarter of life doesn't include sexuality.

 

The notion that one should attempt to stay attractive/healthy isn't offensive. It's how much this is stressed by you/your husband that is shocking. Take a look at what you relayed: your husband doesn't know WHY a man would couple with a woman outside of looks? WTF!?!?! I've heard that crap before from narcissistic shallow Turkish men who viewed their women as mere facilitators of male needs.

 

I'd bet my life on it that you are a very subservient woman, and that's fine, my mother was. But my father EARNED that subservience, he didn't think it was his birth right.

 

I experienced eastern culture to know many guys like your husband. as turks say: "it's not to the old monkey you teach how to make a new face".

 

You're making a lot of assumptions about him and about me, which is a shame. On a forum it's very difficult to convey something accurately, but by the same token we're all adults and we should understand that and not jump to conclusions. I'm not subservient at all, believe it or not. You're taking some of what I say and imagining all kinds of cliches. You probably have a very vivid vision of him, and what it's like in our house. If you were to bet your life that I'm subservient, you would lose your life. Don't be so sure in your opinions, you could be very wrong.

 

Attraction is what initially brings people together, and it is a big part of what keeps people together. For a man, it's charm, swagger, and looks. For a woman, it's looks and femininity, then whatever else. But never underestimate the power of a woman's looks. The makeup industry is huge. Why? Once you know the answer to that question you'll understand why a woman's looks are extremely important. It's not good using strawman arguments like "there are other important things too) because no one is disputing that.

[Els]

He says that a woman's appearance is her number 1 asset, followed closely by her femininity.

 

IMO this is the crux of the issue, not so much the actual length of your hair or whether or not men should voice their opinions on their partner's choice of hairstyle.

 

Are you okay with a man who seriously believes this? If you are, good for you. Don't see why any of us need to convince you otherwise.

[Els]

Also, reading the last few pages makes me wonder if there was really a 'debate' at all.

 

I mean, I do debate things with myself fairly often, but I don't go around announcing that.

[Roweena]

IMO this is the crux of the issue, not so much the actual length of your hair or whether or not men should voice their opinions on their partner's choice of hairstyle.

 

Are you okay with a man who seriously believes this? If you are, good for you. Don't see why any of us need to convince you otherwise.

 

I don't know why you're denying that a woman's main asset is her looks. It's true. Men go for attractive women who make an effort to look nice. If they go for less attractive women it's only because they have limited options for whatever reason. Men like women to keep themselves looking nice, and they like us to be feminine. Men don't like women who don't make an effort, or who act like men.

[Els]

So... you've moved on from debating with yourself to debating with us?

[2sunny]

I don't know why you're denying that a woman's main asset is her looks. It's true. Men go for attractive women who make an effort to look nice. If they go for less attractive women it's only because they have limited options for whatever reason. Men like women to keep themselves looking nice, and they like us to be feminine. Men don't like women who don't make an effort, or who act like men.

 

You are completely wrong.

 

Shallow men go for looks the way you describe.

 

Real men look beyond the surface.

[Eclypse]

Looks are important, there's no kidding there, but they're far from the most important (or only important) thing. I look at attraction as a bit like a cake. Cakes have lots of ingredients, much like attraction in an R. You can make a cake without egg or sugar or icing but it wouldn't be great. You can substitute personality, looks, loyalty etc for the ingredients.

 

Personally, I like long hair. That's what attracted me to my gf. She knows I like that. If she cut her hair to pixie length I wouldn't like it too much. I just don't find that attractive. Similarly, she said she would never kiss me again if I grew a ZZ Top style beard. That's fair enough. I've thought doing about that in the past, but I wouldn't do it since she doesn't like it.

 

I agree no one can (or should) control you, but in a relationship I don't think it's unreasonable to comply with your partners requests in things like these (provided they're within reason).

[serial muse]

Looks are important, there's no kidding there, but they're far from the most important (or only important) thing. I look at attraction as a bit like a cake. Cakes have lots of ingredients, much like attraction in an R. You can make a cake without egg or sugar or icing but it wouldn't be great. You can substitute personality, looks, loyalty etc for the ingredients.

 

Personally, I like long hair. That's what attracted me to my gf. She knows I like that. If she cut her hair to pixie length I wouldn't like it too much. I just don't find that attractive. Similarly, she said she would never kiss me again if I grew a ZZ Top style beard. That's fair enough. I've thought doing about that in the past, but I wouldn't do it since she doesn't like it.

 

I agree no one can (or should) control you, but in a relationship I don't think it's unreasonable to comply with your partners requests in things like these (provided they're within reason).

 

I'm chiming back in to reiterate my earlier point.

 

I said much earlier in the thread that the OP is creating a false dichotomy. You can want to look pretty/handsome for your spouse, and still feel like saying "a woman's number one asset is her looks" is sexist.

 

Those two things are not mutually exclusive, and pretending that all the women in this thread who are put off by that statement of her husbands are THEREFORE saying that women shouldn't want to look nice for their fellas is, frankly, bullshxt. Just bullshxt. That's not the problem here at all, and I'm tired of the fake outrage over it.

 

OP, you are free to enjoy your relationship however you want. But I am tired of the implication that if a person disagrees with your/your husband's stance on women's appeal then s/he's advocating not caring about attraction at all.

 

Get it together.

[2sunny]

Your broad brush strokes and assumptions about women are completely off the mark for a healthy perspective of what women represent...IMHO and experience...

[Roweena]

I'm chiming back in to reiterate my earlier point.

 

I said much earlier in the thread that the OP is creating a false dichotomy. You can want to look pretty/handsome for your spouse, and still feel like saying "a woman's number one asset is her looks" is sexist.

 

Those two things are not mutually exclusive, and pretending that all the women in this thread who are put off by that statement of her husbands are THEREFORE saying that women shouldn't want to look nice for their fellas is, frankly, bullshxt. Just bullshxt. That's not the problem here at all, and I'm tired of the fake outrage over it.

 

OP, you are free to enjoy your relationship however you want. But I am tired of the implication that if a person disagrees with your/your husband's stance on women's appeal then s/he's advocating not caring about attraction at all.

 

Get it together.

 

In terms of initial attraction, a woman's looks most certainly are her main asset, followed very closely by her femininity. Why do you think we spend so much money on makeup and clothes compared to men? I really don't understand why you continue to deny the obvious.

 

I think some of you are getting confused between initial attraction (which should be maintained) and overall qualities. My husband has never said to me that the only positive thing about women is their looks. What he said was that in terms of initial attraction, looks are number 1. Hence the makeup industry.

 

And if you want to maintain the spark throughout a marriage, you have to provide each other with what caused the attraction in the first pace, at least as much as you reasonably can. People get divorced over stuff like this, you should know that, it happens every day.